Idaho toddler shoots mother dead in Walmart store.

[RKMBrown]

If true, IMO, that's wrong. I'd be good with a law covering child safety regulations regarding guns. For example, either the purse or the gun in the purse should have had a child proof safety device. Thus the absence would make it obvious that she was being reckless in not having said regulated device.

I'd be good with such laws as well. And I wholeheartedly agree with those who state that there are people carrying guns who have no business carrying guns.

I suppose just like there are people driving who have no business driving, some regulations for who can drive in public and carry guns in public are necessary.

The mother had an advanced degree and was a chemical engineer. And still stupid as a rock, evidently. I am familiar with Coeur d' Alene area of Idaho. It's FULL of retired cops from California. One of my brothers has been in the area since 1984. No reason for anyone to carry a damn gun with a bunch of kids to the store.

So no mother has ever been mugged heading out to her car in Coeur d' Alene, Idaho?

I don't know, why don't you look it up.

I checked the rate of gun deaths in Hayden/Coeur d' Alene, and looks like she is the first one for 2014.

I checked, last year 50rapes, 500 assaults.

Crime rate in Coeur d Alene Idaho ID murders rapes robberies assaults burglaries thefts auto thefts arson law enforcement employees police officers statistics

 

[RKMBrown]

I would propose legislation to require unattended guns be child proofed/locked up to prevent access by children. Some sort of child proof safety should be engaged on all unattended guns when a child has access. Examples, of ways to child proof a gun would span from any sort of child safe latch on a container for the gun, such as a turn and press latch on a purse, to a bio trigger lock on the gun.

It's illegal to leave a gun, knife, explosives, poison, etc. around children.

Well there you go. Thus if the kid had killed someone other than her she should be charged with that crime.

 

[RKMBrown]

Child proofing does not require making it hard to open for an adult.

It adds complexity by definition. It could slow you down, you don't know that. The simple solution would be to keep your weapon on you instead of laying around in a shopping cart. Which may not even have been legal.

Not necessarily. It only adds complexity by your particular understanding. There is no specific reason why child proofing has to add complexity or slow you down.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

What legislation are you proposing as a result of that 2 year old killing his mother? If your answer is nothing then you are proving my point

I would propose legislation to require unattended guns be child proofed/locked up to prevent access by children. Some sort of child proof safety should be engaged on all unattended guns when a child has access. Examples, of ways to child proof a gun would span from any sort of child safe latch on a container for the gun, such as a turn and press latch on a purse, to a bio trigger lock on the gun.

It's illegal to leave a gun, knife, explosives, poison, etc. around children.[/QUOTE]

It certainly isn't illegal to leave a gun or knife around children.

Stupid ? Yes . Illegal? No

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Guns are a tool that can fire a projectile at over 1000 ft/sec at a range of over a mile. Its primary function is for killing. Other nations have seen fit to limit access to this tool and experience lower murder, suicide, massacres and accidental shooting rates.

But our nation has embraced this tool and celebrate it as part of our culture. As a result, we have to tolerate 2 year olds accidentally shooting their mothers

Well, clearly everyone knows you are lying, cause (1) you are against unfettered access, you have stated so numerous times, (2) guns are not the only tools used in murders, suicides, massacres, or even accidental projectile deaths.

Additionally, this statement of yours that anyone tolerates the stupidity of gun owners is utter nonsense. If YOU want to tolerate 2 year olds accidentally shooting their mothers with unattended guns, that's your business. But YOU don't speak for me. Do you or do you not understand that you don't speak for me?

I'm glad to hear that

What legislation are you proposing as a result of that 2 year old killing his mother? If your answer is nothing then you are proving my point

I would propose legislation to require unattended guns be child proofed/locked up to prevent access by children. Some sort of child proof safety should be engaged on all unattended guns when a child has access. Examples, of ways to child proof a gun would span from any sort of child safe latch on a container for the gun, such as a turn and press latch on a purse, to a bio trigger lock on the gun.

Did you see the link I showed to the lock system Taurus uses? Simple, built in, impossible to remove or defeat

I didn't see a link. The problem with internal lock systems with a key is that most people are just gonna turn the key on and leave it on pretty much forever. Carrying keys around is a pain in the ass and a 5year old can easily use a key.

Oh, I agree, it WOULD be abused. But THEN you seen THEN we have a crime. If your gun came with a lock and you didn't use it and your child used your gun to kill someone, even if by accident, YOU are guilty of negligent homicide.

Or who here believes that a biometric lock couldn't be built into a handgun? No authorized fingerprint no bang bang.

 

[Anathema]

1. If they're committing a crime, tough shit.

2. You carry a gun because it makes YOU feel tough. PERIOD.

1. I would say the bigger crime is the law they would be breaking.

2. No. I carry a firearm because carrying a cop is way too heavy and generally worthless.

I'm sorry you need to carry a gun to compensate for a tiny penis, but the reality is that the odds are so infinitesimal that you will ever need it in such a hurry that you can't unlock a trigger lock fast enough, that I really don't care.

Then I must be really special since in the 15 years I've had my license, I've needed it twice. Thankfully neither situation required me to actually draw the gun, but both were ended quickly, quietly, and without incident due to the presence of the gun. In both situations I was fully prepared to use it, if it was necessary.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Child proofing does not require making it hard to open for an adult.

It adds complexity by definition. It could slow you down, you don't know that. The simple solution would be to keep your weapon on you instead of laying around in a shopping cart. Which may not even have been legal.

Not necessarily. It only adds complexity by your particular understanding. There is no specific reason why child proofing has to add complexity or slow you down.

You meant to say it only adds complexity because claiming it does aids their stupid belief that gun safety shouldn't be regulated.

 

[RKMBrown]

It certainly isn't illegal to leave a gun or knife around children.

Stupid ? Yes . Illegal? No

Apparently it depends on which state you live in:

Kids and Gun Safety Children s Rights Litigation ABA Section of Litigation

"Several states have taken steps to protect children from tragic gun accidents. Massachusetts has the strongest law in the country, requiring guns to be stored in a locked container or disabled with a trigger lock anytime they are not in use. California, Minnesota, and the District of Columbia also passed strong laws criminalizing the act of leaving a gun where a child may access it. Five other states impose criminal liability on an adult only if a child actually gets his or her hands on the weapon because of the adult’s negligent storage of the firearm. Even more states impose liability on an adult if a child gains access to a firearm and then uses the gun to hurt someone. Statistics and research prove that these laws are effective. States that have enacted these laws substantially decreased the number of unintentional child firearm deaths."

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

1. If they're committing a crime, tough shit.

2. You carry a gun because it makes YOU feel tough. PERIOD.

1. I would say the bigger crime is the law they would be breaking.

2. No. I carry a firearm because carrying a cop is way too heavy and generally worthless.

I'm sorry you need to carry a gun to compensate for a tiny penis, but the reality is that the odds are so infinitesimal that you will ever need it in such a hurry that you can't unlock a trigger lock fast enough, that I really don't care.

Then I must be really special since in the 15 years I've had my license, I've needed it twice. Thankfully neither situation required me to actually draw the gun, but both were ended quickly, quietly, and without incident due to the presence of the gun. In both situations I was fully prepared to use it, if it was necessary.

Oh, I've no doubt that twice in 15 years you felt like a big man showing someone you were armed. None at all.

 

[Anathema]

Gun manufactures should be at least required to include trigger locks.

I don't know of anywhere that you can purchase a firearm without a trigger lock. In some states it must be on the gun when it leaves the gunshop. However, I get the feeling you're talking about an integrated trigger lock of some sort.

Please realize that any sort of external trigger lock would not be feasible for anyone carrying a holstered firearm, as the holsters are not designed to deal with that sort of thing.

 

[RKMBrown]

Well, clearly everyone knows you are lying, cause (1) you are against unfettered access, you have stated so numerous times, (2) guns are not the only tools used in murders, suicides, massacres, or even accidental projectile deaths.

Additionally, this statement of yours that anyone tolerates the stupidity of gun owners is utter nonsense. If YOU want to tolerate 2 year olds accidentally shooting their mothers with unattended guns, that's your business. But YOU don't speak for me. Do you or do you not understand that you don't speak for me?

I'm glad to hear that

What legislation are you proposing as a result of that 2 year old killing his mother? If your answer is nothing then you are proving my point

I would propose legislation to require unattended guns be child proofed/locked up to prevent access by children. Some sort of child proof safety should be engaged on all unattended guns when a child has access. Examples, of ways to child proof a gun would span from any sort of child safe latch on a container for the gun, such as a turn and press latch on a purse, to a bio trigger lock on the gun.

Did you see the link I showed to the lock system Taurus uses? Simple, built in, impossible to remove or defeat

I didn't see a link. The problem with internal lock systems with a key is that most people are just gonna turn the key on and leave it on pretty much forever. Carrying keys around is a pain in the ass and a 5year old can easily use a key.

Oh, I agree, it WOULD be abused. But THEN you seen THEN we have a crime. If your gun came with a lock and you didn't use it and your child used your gun to kill someone, even if by accident, YOU are guilty of negligent homicide.

Or who here believes that a biometric lock couldn't be built into a handgun? No authorized fingerprint no bang bang.

I don't like forcing biometric locks on people... but I do like the idea of having the option.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Gun manufactures should be at least required to include trigger locks.

I don't know of anywhere that you can purchase a firearm without a trigger lock. In some states it must be on the gun when it leaves the gunshop. However, I get the feeling you're talking about an integrated trigger lock of some sort.

Please realize that any sort of external trigger lock would not be feasible for anyone carrying a holstered firearm, as the holsters are not designed to deal with that sort of thing.

Please understand that I do NOT care.

there is a compromise that can be made that both allows you to carry your penis replacement as safely as possible.

If you are not willing to make that compromise, you can just leave your gun at home.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I'm glad to hear that

What legislation are you proposing as a result of that 2 year old killing his mother? If your answer is nothing then you are proving my point

I would propose legislation to require unattended guns be child proofed/locked up to prevent access by children. Some sort of child proof safety should be engaged on all unattended guns when a child has access. Examples, of ways to child proof a gun would span from any sort of child safe latch on a container for the gun, such as a turn and press latch on a purse, to a bio trigger lock on the gun.

Did you see the link I showed to the lock system Taurus uses? Simple, built in, impossible to remove or defeat

I didn't see a link. The problem with internal lock systems with a key is that most people are just gonna turn the key on and leave it on pretty much forever. Carrying keys around is a pain in the ass and a 5year old can easily use a key.

Oh, I agree, it WOULD be abused. But THEN you seen THEN we have a crime. If your gun came with a lock and you didn't use it and your child used your gun to kill someone, even if by accident, YOU are guilty of negligent homicide.

Or who here believes that a biometric lock couldn't be built into a handgun? No authorized fingerprint no bang bang.

I don't like forcing biometric locks on people... but I do like the idea of having the option.

People didn't like the idea of seat belts being forced on them either.

 

[Anathema]

Oh, I've no doubt that twice in 15 years you felt like a big man showing someone you were armed.

In both cases I was facing multiple potential threats who were larger than I am. In both cases I was simply going about my own business and these individuals chose to involve themselves in my life unnecessarily. Only one time did I have to even show the gun. The other time, the mere announcement that I was armed was sufficient to end the situation immediately and without issue.

Both times the gun did its job without a shot ever needing to be fired. The incidents were defused without the gun ever leaving the holster. THAT is the main purpose of carrying a gun..... to stop things BEFORE it gets to the point of needing to be bloodshed.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Oh, I've no doubt that twice in 15 years you felt like a big man showing someone you were armed.

In both cases I was facing multiple potential threats who were larger than I am. In both cases I was simply going about my own business and these individuals chose to involve themselves in my life unnecessarily. Only one time did I have to even show the gun. The other time, the mere announcement that I was armed was sufficient to end the situation immediately and without issue.

Both times the gun did its job without a shot ever needing to be fired. The incidents were defused without the gun ever leaving the holster. THAT is the main purpose of carrying a gun..... to stop things BEFORE it gets to the point of needing to be bloodshed.

Yes, well I do concede that rare is the times when even bigger foes who outnumbered me felt courageous enough to threaten me.

Sorry you're weak and frail bro.

 

[RKMBrown]

I would propose legislation to require unattended guns be child proofed/locked up to prevent access by children. Some sort of child proof safety should be engaged on all unattended guns when a child has access. Examples, of ways to child proof a gun would span from any sort of child safe latch on a container for the gun, such as a turn and press latch on a purse, to a bio trigger lock on the gun.

Did you see the link I showed to the lock system Taurus uses? Simple, built in, impossible to remove or defeat

I didn't see a link. The problem with internal lock systems with a key is that most people are just gonna turn the key on and leave it on pretty much forever. Carrying keys around is a pain in the ass and a 5year old can easily use a key.

Oh, I agree, it WOULD be abused. But THEN you seen THEN we have a crime. If your gun came with a lock and you didn't use it and your child used your gun to kill someone, even if by accident, YOU are guilty of negligent homicide.

Or who here believes that a biometric lock couldn't be built into a handgun? No authorized fingerprint no bang bang.

I don't like forcing biometric locks on people... but I do like the idea of having the option.

People didn't like the idea of seat belts being forced on them either.

Yeah well seat belts are required by law but you can operate the car without them.

 

[Pogo]

There are 300 million guns out there....nobody is going to take them away

Guns are part of our culture, we have to live with the consequences
Those consequences are:
Massacres
Assasinations
High murder rate
Suicides
Accidents

Bullshit. Guns are just a dangerous tool. No different than any other dangerous tool.

Guns are a tool that can fire a projectile at over 1000 ft/sec at a range of over a mile. Its primary function is for killing. Other nations have seen fit to limit access to this tool and experience lower murder, suicide, massacres and accidental shooting rates.

But our nation has embraced this tool and celebrate it as part of our culture. As a result, we have to tolerate 2 year olds accidentally shooting their mothers

Well, clearly everyone knows you are lying, cause (1) you are against unfettered access, you have stated so numerous times, (2) guns are not the only tools used in murders, suicides, massacres, or even accidental projectile deaths.

Additionally, this statement of yours that anyone tolerates the stupidity of gun owners is utter nonsense. If YOU want to tolerate 2 year olds accidentally shooting their mothers with unattended guns, that's your business. But YOU don't speak for me. Do you or do you not understand that you don't speak for me?

I'm glad to hear that

What legislation are you proposing as a result of that 2 year old killing his mother? If your answer is nothing then you are proving my point

I would propose legislation to require unattended guns be child proofed/locked up to prevent access by children. Some sort of child proof safety should be engaged on all unattended guns when a child has access. Examples, of ways to child proof a gun would span from any sort of child safe latch on a container for the gun, such as a turn and press latch on a purse, to a bio trigger lock on the gun.

So you're for "gun control".

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Did you see the link I showed to the lock system Taurus uses? Simple, built in, impossible to remove or defeat

I didn't see a link. The problem with internal lock systems with a key is that most people are just gonna turn the key on and leave it on pretty much forever. Carrying keys around is a pain in the ass and a 5year old can easily use a key.

Oh, I agree, it WOULD be abused. But THEN you seen THEN we have a crime. If your gun came with a lock and you didn't use it and your child used your gun to kill someone, even if by accident, YOU are guilty of negligent homicide.

Or who here believes that a biometric lock couldn't be built into a handgun? No authorized fingerprint no bang bang.

I don't like forcing biometric locks on people... but I do like the idea of having the option.

People didn't like the idea of seat belts being forced on them either.

Yeah well seat belts are required by law but you can operate the car without them.

okay

air bags
abs
traction control

 

[Anathema]

there is a compromise that can be made that both allows you to carry your penis replacement as safely as possible.

If you are not willing to make that compromise, you can just leave your gun at home.

ANY compromise that increases the amount of time necessary to bring that firearm into action is one which I will never agree to. Not in my home, not on the street, not in my car. Nowhere. My ability to defend myself supereedes any "safety" concerns for anyone, including myself.

 

[RKMBrown]

Bullshit. Guns are just a dangerous tool. No different than any other dangerous tool.

Guns are a tool that can fire a projectile at over 1000 ft/sec at a range of over a mile. Its primary function is for killing. Other nations have seen fit to limit access to this tool and experience lower murder, suicide, massacres and accidental shooting rates.

But our nation has embraced this tool and celebrate it as part of our culture. As a result, we have to tolerate 2 year olds accidentally shooting their mothers

Well, clearly everyone knows you are lying, cause (1) you are against unfettered access, you have stated so numerous times, (2) guns are not the only tools used in murders, suicides, massacres, or even accidental projectile deaths.

Additionally, this statement of yours that anyone tolerates the stupidity of gun owners is utter nonsense. If YOU want to tolerate 2 year olds accidentally shooting their mothers with unattended guns, that's your business. But YOU don't speak for me. Do you or do you not understand that you don't speak for me?

I'm glad to hear that

What legislation are you proposing as a result of that 2 year old killing his mother? If your answer is nothing then you are proving my point

I would propose legislation to require unattended guns be child proofed/locked up to prevent access by children. Some sort of child proof safety should be engaged on all unattended guns when a child has access. Examples, of ways to child proof a gun would span from any sort of child safe latch on a container for the gun, such as a turn and press latch on a purse, to a bio trigger lock on the gun.

So you're for "gun control".

"gun control" is a broad undefined political campaign slogan...

I'm for reasoned common sense regulations on most public matters.

I'm not for non-nonsensical regulations designed to harm the public.

Liberty does not mean liberty to take liberty away from others. Thus if your liberty is likely to cause harm in public use it needs some common sense regulations.