If Christians are allowed to discriminate against gays ...

Should gays be allowed to discriminate against Christians?

  • Seems fair to me.

  • No, only religious people should be protected.


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And the divorce rate for married same sex couples is lower than for others, and states where same sex marriage was legal prior to Obergefell saw their overall divorce rate decline. Same sex marriage is now a part of traditional society. The marriage club has been expanded to include new members and the institution is stronger as a result


Gay Marriage has been part of prison life for a long time, and its always been rife with violence. We've only had legal Gay Marriage for a few years in the free world, but I don't see anything good coming from it. The pilot program if you will in the nation's penal system has been very problemsome.
 
Children need a mother AND a father. Not two of one and none of the other.

I think everyone knows this deep down, but of course some people will never admit it because it doesn't go along with their politics.
The topic is discrimination, so, my questions to you are :

1. Do you think that discrimination against gays will enhance the likely hood that more children will have a mother and a father?

2. Do you think that discrimination against gays will help or harm the children currently in their care?

take your time
 
And the divorce rate for married same sex couples is lower than for others, and states where same sex marriage was legal prior to Obergefell saw their overall divorce rate decline. Same sex marriage is now a part of traditional society. The marriage club has been expanded to include new members and the institution is stronger as a result


Gay Marriage has been part of prison life for a long time, and its always been rife with violence. We've only had legal Gay Marriage for a few years in the free world, but I don't see anything good coming from it. The pilot program if you will in the nation's penal system has been very problem some.

Err what?? Gay marriage in prison?? What the hell does that have to do with the outside world? I don't know for a fact that there is even such a program, nor do I much care.

You don't see any good coming from gay marriage? Would you care to explain that. ?

Some states have had gay marriage for much longer than a few years. Tell us about all of the bad shit that is happening in, shall we say , Massachusetts.
 
Children need a mother AND a father. Not two of one and none of the other.

I think everyone knows this deep down, but of course some people will never admit it because it doesn't go along with their politics.
No everyone doesn't know that deep down. What a child needs is good parenting, from one parent or two, whether they are same sex or opposite sex. It isn't the sex of your parents or even whether it is one or two parents: IT IS GOOD PARENTING THAT MATTERS. Bottom line.

I hate to break it to you, but while "good parenting" - depending on how one even defines that - is certainly necessary, it doesn't obviate the biological differences between the sexes, no matter how hard you try to pretend they don't exist.
 
And the divorce rate for married same sex couples is lower than for others, and states where same sex marriage was legal prior to Obergefell saw their overall divorce rate decline. Same sex marriage is now a part of traditional society. The marriage club has been expanded to include new members and the institution is stronger as a result


Gay Marriage has been part of prison life for a long time, and its always been rife with violence. We've only had legal Gay Marriage for a few years in the free world, but I don't see anything good coming from it. The pilot program if you will in the nation's penal system has been very problemsome.

Oh, please, let's be serious. People who are fucked up by definition - ie. criminals - are hardly a reliable sample pool.
 
Anyway, moving back to the topic of the thread, I still think we would all be better off if we didn't insist that government try to dictate people's actions according to someone else's idea of "how things should be".
 
Gay Marriage has been part of prison life for a long time, and its always been rife with violence.
But, to be fair, isn't PRISON LIFE IN GENERAL rife with violence?

We've only had legal Gay Marriage for a few years in the free world, but I don't see anything good coming from it.
Will anything bad come of it? Should that matter?

The pilot program if you will in the nation's penal system has been very problemsome.
Again....PRISON LIFE. What would you expect?
 
sure it is. why the fk you think we have so many kids fked up. Either missing a mother or a father. yep, statistics say kids need one of each for development and maturity.

Why Children Need a Male and Female Parent | Cornerstone Family Council

  • "The cooperative input and influence of a male parent and a female parent is essential for proper child development.
  • “As fathering expert Dr. Kyle Pruett of YaleMedicalSchool explains in Fatherneed: Why Father Care is as Essential as Mother Care for Your Child, “fathers do not mother.” Psychology Today explains, “fatherhood turns out to be a complex and unique phenomenon with huge consequences for the emotional and intellectual growth of children.” A father, as a male parent, brings unique contributions to the parenting project.
  • Likewise, a mother, as a female, uniquely impacts the life and development of her child, as Dr. Brenda Hunter explains in her book, The Power of Mother Love: Transforming Both Mother and Child. Erik Erikson, a pioneer in the world of child psychology, explained that father love and mother love are qualitatively different kinds of love. As cited in Kyle D. Pruett, The Nurturing Father, (New York: Warner Books, 1987), p. 49."

Divorce is why so many kids are “fucked up”. Kids do best with two parents. The gender is immaterial.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100121135904.htm

In their analysis, the researchers found no evidence of gender-based parenting abilities, with the "partial exception of lactation," noting that very little about the gender of the parent has significance for children's psychological adjustment and social success.

As the researchers write: "The social science research that is routinely cited does not actually speak to the questions of whether or not children need both a mother and a father at home. Instead proponents generally cite research that compares [heterosexual two-parent] families with single parents, thus conflating the number with the gender of parents."
As I said.

If evidence is proffered that shows a high probability that children suffer from some psychological or developmental defect based SOLELY on the fact that their parents are same-sex, I will reconsider.

But I will bet the motherfucking farm that no such evidence will ever be produced, even if there is underlying truth to such a claim (there's not). The study would need to include hetero families and somehow exclude all the other factors or potential factors. Nobody would pay for such a study anyway, so I think we can put the issue to bed.

So what you're saying is that because no one is willing to pay for the research, and everyone's too afraid to DO the research because they don't want to be called "homophobic", that must mean there's nothing to research?

There IS research. It says our children are at no disadvantage to yours.

You know how you utterly dismiss any research that contradicts you as "biased"? Back atcha.

Not interested in "research" that reaches a conclusion, THEN looks for the evidence.

I’m interested in peer reviewed research from reputable organizations. NARTH or the Family Research Council are not reputable organizations using peer reviewed research.
 
So what you're saying is that because no one is willing to pay for the research, and everyone's too afraid to DO the research because they don't want to be called "homophobic", that must mean there's nothing to research?
I am saying there is no evidence and will likely never be any evidence.

And I'm saying how in the hell would you know if there's evidence or not, when virtually everyone is afraid to even approach the topic?

No, they are not. There have been plenty of studies. Here’s a recent one.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/adopting-reason/201611/kids-can-thrive-gay-parents

None of the outcome measures showed any difference between families headed by gay versus straight parents. Children’s behavior problems were no different between these groups, whether behavior was rated by parents or teachers. Parental stress and family functioning were no different between these groups. In sum, there was no evidence whatsoever to suggest that children generally fared better or worse depending on the sexual orientation of their parents.[...]

The evidence finding no effect of parental sexual orientation on children’s outcomes is so conclusive that more than a decade ago, the American Psychological Association put forth a public policy statement (link is external) “that the adjustment, development, and psychological well-being of children is unrelated to parental sexual orientation... children of lesbian and gay parents are as likely as those of heterosexual parents to flourish.”

The APA further resolved that it “opposes any discrimination based on sexual orientation in matters of adoption, child custody and visitation, foster care, and reproductive health services.”

Similar position statements have been articulated by other major professional organizations including the American Medical Association, American Bar Association, American Academy of Pediatrics, and Child Welfare League of America. Given the accumulation of evidence, it is long past time to fully accept all loving families as appropriate places for raising children.
 
Children need a mother AND a father. Not two of one and none of the other.

I think everyone knows this deep down, but of course some people will never admit it because it doesn't go along with their politics.
No everyone doesn't know that deep down. What a child needs is good parenting, from one parent or two, whether they are same sex or opposite sex. It isn't the sex of your parents or even whether it is one or two parents: IT IS GOOD PARENTING THAT MATTERS. Bottom line.

I hate to break it to you, but while "good parenting" - depending on how one even defines that - is certainly necessary, it doesn't obviate the biological differences between the sexes, no matter how hard you try to pretend they don't exist.

Nobody is pretending that differences don’t exist, they just don’t matter when it comes to parenting.
 
Anyway, moving back to the topic of the thread, I still think we would all be better off if we didn't insist that government try to dictate people's actions according to someone else's idea of "how things should be".
That's the crux of it. Government is there to protect our freedom to create the kind of society we want, voluntarily and collaboratively. Some people seem to see government as a tool to force acceptance of their vision of the good life.
 
And I'm saying how in the hell would you know if there's evidence or not, when virtually everyone is afraid to even approach the topic?
No evidence is no evidence. The way to get evidence is to approach the topic. I am saying there is no evidence that suggest that children do better or worse in same-sex families.

Others have posted research that DOES indicate that children do no better or worse in same-sex families.

So, again. There is NO EVIDENCE AVAILABLE to suggest that children in same-sex homes are in any danger solely because their parents are of the same sex.
 
Children need a mother AND a father. Not two of one and none of the other.

I think everyone knows this deep down, but of course some people will never admit it because it doesn't go along with their politics.
That's rather insulting of single parents, is it not?
 
Divorce is why so many kids are “fucked up”. Kids do best with two parents. The gender is immaterial.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100121135904.htm

In their analysis, the researchers found no evidence of gender-based parenting abilities, with the "partial exception of lactation," noting that very little about the gender of the parent has significance for children's psychological adjustment and social success.

As the researchers write: "The social science research that is routinely cited does not actually speak to the questions of whether or not children need both a mother and a father at home. Instead proponents generally cite research that compares [heterosexual two-parent] families with single parents, thus conflating the number with the gender of parents."
As I said.

If evidence is proffered that shows a high probability that children suffer from some psychological or developmental defect based SOLELY on the fact that their parents are same-sex, I will reconsider.

But I will bet the motherfucking farm that no such evidence will ever be produced, even if there is underlying truth to such a claim (there's not). The study would need to include hetero families and somehow exclude all the other factors or potential factors. Nobody would pay for such a study anyway, so I think we can put the issue to bed.

So what you're saying is that because no one is willing to pay for the research, and everyone's too afraid to DO the research because they don't want to be called "homophobic", that must mean there's nothing to research?

There IS research. It says our children are at no disadvantage to yours.

You know how you utterly dismiss any research that contradicts you as "biased"? Back atcha.

Not interested in "research" that reaches a conclusion, THEN looks for the evidence.

I’m interested in peer reviewed research from reputable organizations. NARTH or the Family Research Council are not reputable organizations using peer reviewed research.

You're interested in people who agree with you, who have been agreed with by other people who agree with you. Let's be honest here (a new concept for you, I know): anyone who says something you don't want to hear is automatically going to be dismissed as "not reputable", "not peer-reviewed enough", and "just like FRC". You will always find some way to dismiss anyone who tells you things you don't like.
 
Children need a mother AND a father. Not two of one and none of the other.

I think everyone knows this deep down, but of course some people will never admit it because it doesn't go along with their politics.
No everyone doesn't know that deep down. What a child needs is good parenting, from one parent or two, whether they are same sex or opposite sex. It isn't the sex of your parents or even whether it is one or two parents: IT IS GOOD PARENTING THAT MATTERS. Bottom line.

I hate to break it to you, but while "good parenting" - depending on how one even defines that - is certainly necessary, it doesn't obviate the biological differences between the sexes, no matter how hard you try to pretend they don't exist.

Nobody is pretending that differences don’t exist, they just don’t matter when it comes to parenting.

Uh huh. "There are differences between the sexes, but they don't actually affect anything."

Brilliant.
 
And I'm saying how in the hell would you know if there's evidence or not, when virtually everyone is afraid to even approach the topic?
No evidence is no evidence. The way to get evidence is to approach the topic. I am saying there is no evidence that suggest that children do better or worse in same-sex families.

Others have posted research that DOES indicate that children do no better or worse in same-sex families.

So, again. There is NO EVIDENCE AVAILABLE to suggest that children in same-sex homes are in any danger solely because their parents are of the same sex.

I see. So you ARE saying, "No one wants to look for the evidence, or talk about whether there is evidence, and that's the same as no evidence existing".

If you stick your fingers any farther into your ears, you're going to scratch your brain. Listen to yourself. I point out that people are afraid to approach the topic, and you respond with "The way to get evidence is to approach the topic. So there's no evidence." Duuuh. Hack much?
 

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