If God doesn't exist...

[there4eyeM]

Je repete...

 

[zaangalewa]

Je repete...

Jesus was a victim of death penalty.

How long will you continue not to see the world with your own eyes?

 

[there4eyeM]

Go back and reconsider the whole story.

 

[zaangalewa]

Go back and reconsider the whole story.

I don't discuss about death penalty any longer. We don't have it. But Jesus was a victim of death penalty. That's easy to understand because he died on a cross.

 

[there4eyeM]

A true victim does not set up the situation in which he/she is 'victimized'. This should not have to be told to you, and you are being insulted by being so informed. The message of what happened with Jesus has not been understood on your part. Reconsider.

 

[zaangalewa]

A true victim does not set up the situation in which he/she is 'victimized'. This should not have to be told to you, and you are being insulted by being so informed. The message of what happened with Jesus has not been understood on your part. Reconsider.

13.82 billion years universe, 4.5 billion years solar system, 600 million years evolution of multicellular organisms, 20000 years friendship with dogs, 6000 years ago a first state under the Pharaos and the Jews who left this slavery of death behind them ... Jesus ... and now I and I'm speaking with an American about that Jesus was a victim of death penalty while our world breaks down in many ways. Dear god. Why? What have I done ... okay okay ... What I like to say to you "there4eyeM": Jesus was a victim of death penalty. You can see this very good if you take your time and watch for example a crucifix and ask yourselve what the artist might have felt, who made this crucifix.

 

[ChrisL]

Wow! Lol. These are probably the same kinds of people who get scammed by "salesmen."

 

[there4eyeM]

The 'tree' obviously is blocking your view. (addressed to above above)

 

[there4eyeM]

Someone has assuredly been sold a bill of goods.

 

[ChrisL]

1. Indoctrination into Religion

Is it coincidence that people tend to stay with whatever religion they were raised in, and this religion tends to be whatever religion is dominant in the community/nation where they live? If people were genuinely convinced by the arguments which apologists offered, shouldn't the distribution of religions around the globe be a bit more even?

The high and consistent degree of religious concentrations suggests that people believe their religion because that's the one they were indoctrinated into and which is consistently reinforced around them. People acquire a religion before critical thinking skills and that religion is promoted without most people noticing. That's really not a very good reason to believe that a religion is true, is it?


2. Indoctrination into Anti-Atheist Bigotry
If you keep being told that people who don't believe in your god are evil, immoral, and a threat to the stable social order, then you would never dream of dropping your theistic religion. Who wants to be immoral or simply regarded by the rest of society as immoral? This is very much what atheists face, especially in America, and it's hard not to see theconstant indoctrination into anti-atheist bigotry as a reason why people stick to their religions. Children learn in public schools that America is a nation for people who believe in God and this message is reinforced throughout their lives by preachers, politicians, and community leaders of all sorts.

3. Peer and Family Pressure
Religion can be enormously important to families and communities, creating a tremendous amount of pressure to conform to religious expectations. People who step outside those expectations are not simply choosing a different way of life, but can in fact be perceived as rejecting one of the most important bonds which keep a family or community together. Even if this is never communicated in so many words, people do learn that certain ideas, ideologies, and practices should be treated as vital to communal bonds and should therefore not be questioned. The role of peer pressure and familial pressure in maintaining at least a veneer of religiosity for many people cannot be denied.

4. Fear of Death
Many religious theists try to argue atheists into believing in a god through the fear of what will happen after dying — either going to hell or simply ceasing to exist. This arguably reveals something very important about the believers themselves: they, too, must fear death as the cessation of existence and believe not because there are any good reasons to think there is an afterlife, but rather out of wishful thinking. People don't want to think that physical death is the end of all experiences, emotions, and thoughts so they insist on believing that somehow their "mind" will continue to exist without any physical brain in an eternity of sustained bliss — or even will be reincarnated in a new form.

5. Wishful Thinking
The wish that physical death isn't the end of life probably isn't the only example of wishful thinking behind religious and theistic belief. There are a number of other ways in which people profess beliefs that appear to be more about what they wish were true than what they can support through good evidence and logic. Many Christians, for example, seem to wish quite strongly that there exists a place of eternal punishment awaiting all those who dare to deny them political and cultural dominion in America. Many conservative believers from many religions seem to wish that there is a god which wants them to exercise unchecked power over women and minorities.

6. Fear of Freedom and Responsibility
One of the most disturbing aspects of many people's religious beliefs is the manner in which these beliefs make it possible for believers to avoid taking personal responsibility for what's going on. They don't have to be responsible for ensuring that justice is done because God will provide that. They don't have to be responsible for solving environmental problems because God will do that. They don't have to be responsible for developing strong moral rules because God has done that. They don't have to be responsible for developing sound arguments in defense of their positions because God has done that. Believers deny their own freedom because freedom means responsibility and responsibility means that if we fail, no one will rescue us.

7. Lack of Basic Skills in Logic and Reasoning
Most people don't learn nearly as much about logic, reason, and constructing sound arguments as they should. Even so, the quality of arguments typically offered by believers as justification for their religious and theistic beliefs are remarkable for just how atrocious they are. If only one basic logical fallacy is committed, it can be considered an achievement. Given how important believers claim the existence of their god and truth of their religion are, you'd think that they would invest a lot of effort into constructing the best possible arguments and finding the best possible evidence. Instead, they invest a lot of effort into constructing circular rationalizations and finding anything that sounds even remotely plausible.

 

[ChrisL]

Why do we believe in God? II

Religion is a cultural universal. Humans in every known society practice some type of religion. So it’s tempting to believe thatreligiosity is part of evolved human nature, that humans are evolutionarily designed to be religious. Well, the answer is yes and no.

In my last post, I discussed how Haselton and Nettle’s Error Management Theory explains intersexual mindreading, why men always overinfer women’s sexual interest in them. One of the great features of Error Management Theory is that it can explain a wide variety of phenomena. It is a truly general theory.

Imagine you are our ancestor living on the African savanna 100,000 years ago, and you encounter some ambiguous situation. For example, you heard some rustling noises nearby at night. Or you were walking in the forest, and a large fruit falling from a tree branch hits you on the head. What’s going on?

In an ambiguous situation like this, you can either attribute the phenomenon to impersonal, inanimate, and unintentional forces (for example, wind blowing gently to make the rustling noises among the bushes and leaves, or a mature fruit falling by the force of gravity and hitting you on the head purely by accident) or to personal, animate, and intentional forces (for example, a predator hiding in the dark and getting ready to attack you, or an enemy hiding in the tree branches and throwing fruits at your head). The question is, which is it?

Once again, Error Management Theory suggests that, in your inference, you can make a “Type I” error of false positive or “Type II” error of false negative, and these two types of error carry vastly different consequences and costs. The cost of a false-positive error is that you become paranoid. You are always looking around and behind your back for predators and enemies that don’t exist. The cost of a false-negative error is that you are dead, being killed by a predator or an enemy when you least expect them. Obviously, it’s better to be paranoid than dead, so evolution should have designed a mind that overinfers personal, animate, and intentional forces even when none exist.

Different theorists call this innate human tendency to commit false-positive errors rather than false-negative errors (and as a consequence be a bit paranoid) “animistic bias” or “the agency-detector mechanism.” These theorists argue that the evolutionary origins of religious beliefs in supernatural forces may have come from such an innate cognitive bias to commit false-positive errors rather than false-negative errors, and thus overinferpersonal, intentional, and animate forces behind otherwise perfectly natural phenomena.

You see a bush on fire. It could have been caused by an impersonal, inanimate, and unintentional force (lightning striking the bush and setting it on fire), or it could have been caused by a personal, animate, and intentional force (God trying to communicate with you). The “animistic bias” or “agency-detector mechanism” predisposes you to opt for the latter explanation rather than the former. It predisposes you to see the hands of God at work behind natural, physical phenomena whose exact causes are unknown.

In this view, religiosity (the human capacity for belief in supernatural beings) is not an evolved tendency per se; after all, religion in itself is not adaptive. It is instead a byproductof animistic bias or the agency-detector mechanism, the tendency to be paranoid, which isadaptive because it can save your life. Humans did not evolve to be religious; they evolved to be paranoid. And humans are religious because they are paranoid.

Some readers may recognize this argument as a variant of “Pascal’s wager.” The seventeenth-century French philosopher Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) argued that given that one cannot know for sure if God exists, it is nonetheless rational to believe in God. If one does not believe in God when He indeed exists (false-negative error), one must spend eternity in hell and damnation, whereas if one believes in God when he actually does not exist (false-positive error), one only wastes a minimal amount of time and effort spent on religious services. The cost of committing the false-negative error is much greater than the cost of committing the false-positive error. Hence one should rationally believe in God.

However, Pascal cannot explain why men always come on to women, whereas Haselton and Nettle can. The intriguing suggestion here is that we may believe in God and the supernatural forces for the same reasons that men overinfer women’s sexual interest in them and make unwelcome passes at them all the time. Both religious beliefs and sexual miscommunication between the sexes may be consequences of the human braindesigned for efficient error management, to minimize the total costs (rather than the total numbers) of errors. We may believe in God for the same reason that women have to keep slapping Beavis and Butt-head to set them straight.

 

[sealybobo]

1. Indoctrination into Religion

Is it coincidence that people tend to stay with whatever religion they were raised in, and this religion tends to be whatever religion is dominant in the community/nation where they live? If people were genuinely convinced by the arguments which apologists offered, shouldn't the distribution of religions around the globe be a bit more even?

The high and consistent degree of religious concentrations suggests that people believe their religion because that's the one they were indoctrinated into and which is consistently reinforced around them. People acquire a religion before critical thinking skills and that religion is promoted without most people noticing. That's really not a very good reason to believe that a religion is true, is it?


2. Indoctrination into Anti-Atheist Bigotry
If you keep being told that people who don't believe in your god are evil, immoral, and a threat to the stable social order, then you would never dream of dropping your theistic religion. Who wants to be immoral or simply regarded by the rest of society as immoral? This is very much what atheists face, especially in America, and it's hard not to see theconstant indoctrination into anti-atheist bigotry as a reason why people stick to their religions. Children learn in public schools that America is a nation for people who believe in God and this message is reinforced throughout their lives by preachers, politicians, and community leaders of all sorts.

3. Peer and Family Pressure
Religion can be enormously important to families and communities, creating a tremendous amount of pressure to conform to religious expectations. People who step outside those expectations are not simply choosing a different way of life, but can in fact be perceived as rejecting one of the most important bonds which keep a family or community together. Even if this is never communicated in so many words, people do learn that certain ideas, ideologies, and practices should be treated as vital to communal bonds and should therefore not be questioned. The role of peer pressure and familial pressure in maintaining at least a veneer of religiosity for many people cannot be denied.

4. Fear of Death
Many religious theists try to argue atheists into believing in a god through the fear of what will happen after dying — either going to hell or simply ceasing to exist. This arguably reveals something very important about the believers themselves: they, too, must fear death as the cessation of existence and believe not because there are any good reasons to think there is an afterlife, but rather out of wishful thinking. People don't want to think that physical death is the end of all experiences, emotions, and thoughts so they insist on believing that somehow their "mind" will continue to exist without any physical brain in an eternity of sustained bliss — or even will be reincarnated in a new form.

5. Wishful Thinking
The wish that physical death isn't the end of life probably isn't the only example of wishful thinking behind religious and theistic belief. There are a number of other ways in which people profess beliefs that appear to be more about what they wish were true than what they can support through good evidence and logic. Many Christians, for example, seem to wish quite strongly that there exists a place of eternal punishment awaiting all those who dare to deny them political and cultural dominion in America. Many conservative believers from many religions seem to wish that there is a god which wants them to exercise unchecked power over women and minorities.

6. Fear of Freedom and Responsibility
One of the most disturbing aspects of many people's religious beliefs is the manner in which these beliefs make it possible for believers to avoid taking personal responsibility for what's going on. They don't have to be responsible for ensuring that justice is done because God will provide that. They don't have to be responsible for solving environmental problems because God will do that. They don't have to be responsible for developing strong moral rules because God has done that. They don't have to be responsible for developing sound arguments in defense of their positions because God has done that. Believers deny their own freedom because freedom means responsibility and responsibility means that if we fail, no one will rescue us.

7. Lack of Basic Skills in Logic and Reasoning
Most people don't learn nearly as much about logic, reason, and constructing sound arguments as they should. Even so, the quality of arguments typically offered by believers as justification for their religious and theistic beliefs are remarkable for just how atrocious they are. If only one basic logical fallacy is committed, it can be considered an achievement. Given how important believers claim the existence of their god and truth of their religion are, you'd think that they would invest a lot of effort into constructing the best possible arguments and finding the best possible evidence. Instead, they invest a lot of effort into constructing circular rationalizations and finding anything that sounds even remotely plausible.

Let's see boss challenge all that, but watch him try

 

[zaangalewa]

1. Indoctrination into Atheism
2. Indoctrination into Anti-Xxxxxxx Bigotry
3. Peer and Family Pressure
4. Fear of Death
5. Wishful Thinking
6. Fear of Freedom and Responsibility
7. Lack of Basic Skills in Logic and Reasoning ...

Alternative for this atheistic lifestyle?

Where do you see a real difference between religious people, antireligous people like lots of mindmanipulating atheists or godless liars in the name of god? What's worthful in your eyes?

 

[ChrisL]

1. Indoctrination into Atheism
2. Indoctrination into Anti-Xxxxxxx Bigotry
3. Peer and Family Pressure
4. Fear of Death
5. Wishful Thinking
6. Fear of Freedom and Responsibility
7. Lack of Basic Skills in Logic and Reasoning ...

Alternative for this atheistic lifestyle?

Where do you see a real difference between religious people, antireligous people like lots of mindmanipulating atheists or godless liars in the name of god? What's worthful in your eyes?

I see atheists/agnostics as being truthful and religious people as being paranoid and frightened little sheep.

 

[there4eyeM]

Sensing the universe and the wonder of it does not require dogma.

 

[ChrisL]

Sensing the universe and the wonder of it does not require dogma.

I find all kinds of things wondrous. Doesn't have to do anything with superstitious beliefs though. For example, I find history to be fascinating and wondrous and I would love to visit some historical sites around the world some day. I also find the universe and how it was created and how vast it is to be wondrous, but that doesn't mean I have to believe that some "entity" created it all.

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus was a victim? Something about the story has escaped you.

Jesus was a victim of death penalty.

Jesus gave up his life, no one took it from Him. John 10:17-18 17“For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. 18“No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father.”

 

[LittleNipper]

Sensing the universe and the wonder of it does not require dogma.

I find all kinds of things wondrous. Doesn't have to do anything with superstitious beliefs though. For example, I find history to be fascinating and wondrous and I would love to visit some historical sites around the world some day. I also find the universe and how it was created and how vast it is to be wondrous, but that doesn't mean I have to believe that some "entity" created it all.

So where did life originate? Why do you exist? Where are you going? Why are you here? How do you know this?

 

[there4eyeM]

Because questions can be syntactically formed does not make them constructive or meaningful. When it is considered how long people have asked why we live without finding a satisfying answer, we might wonder if that it is the wrong question. And in fact, if 'God' exists there are many things we cannot know unless they are revealed.
As for the last question, it does have an answer. One knows through one's consciousness. That is the only thing of which we can be certain exists.

 

[LittleNipper]

Because questions can be syntactically formed does not make them constructive or meaningful. When it is considered how long people have asked why we live without finding a satisfying answer, we might wonder if that it is the wrong question. And in fact, if 'God' exists there are many things we cannot know unless they are revealed.
As for the last question, it does have an answer. One knows through one's consciousness. That is the only thing of which we can be certain exists.

I know the answers to the questions; however, it involves God and His revelation through His Word and experiences among both those who love God and those who reject God... Just because there are people who cannot accept such answers doesn't mean that not having a clue is valid.