If God Doesn’t Exist

[Meriweather]

Christianity stole Hebrew theology. I just borrowed some verses.

Seems odd your Religion of Honesty would borrow from a religion you claim is dishonest. Shrug.

 

[Hollie]

Christianity stole Hebrew theology. I just borrowed some verses.

Seems odd your Religion of Honesty would borrow from a religion you claim is dishonest. Shrug.

That’s how religions go.

 

[buttercup]

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

That really is the most ignorant objection of all. I mean, there are no words strong enough to express how ignorant that is.

Obviously God as the CREATOR and the First Cause is uncreated. God is eternal, which means unlike the rest of us created beings, God has no beginning and no end. So to ask who created God is like asking why 2+2 = 5 or why a man is a woman… it's nonsensical. But I noticed that in almost every atheism vs theism debate, that ignorant objection comes up, by someone who thinks they're being clever.

 

[Meriweather]

That’s how religions go.

Actually, they do not, so once again I am wondering in which denomination (or cult) you grew up.

 

[buttercup]

If God doesn’t exist, the universe came into existence by chance, the first living cell developed from non-living matter by chance, and all living things are the eventual product of the blind, undirected process of evolution. In such a case, human life is no more valuable than dust, and there is no basis for saying that any life matters. Only if there is an author of life who creates and imbues us with a meaning greater than our physical parts can lives actually matter, and in an equal way.

If God doesn’t exist, there’s also no objective standard for labeling an action—such as murder—wrong. If we’re all just the product of blind, purposeless forces, morality is just an opinion. Unless there is a higher-than-human moral authority, no one has a basis for claiming that murder is objectively wrong.

And finally, if God doesn’t exist, the concept of justice is meaningless because there can be no right or wrong in the first place to require justice. As C.S. Lewis famously said about his conversion to Christianity, “My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?” Justice requires a standard, and there is no objective standard in a purposeless universe.

5 Ways Christians are Getting Swept into a Secular Worldview in This Cultural Moment

Culture is influencing the church's response more than the church is influencing culture.

christianmomthoughts.com

That's why being agnostic is the thinking person's position. We don't know either way whether a god exists or not but leave the door open in case someone finds real proof either way.

Actually thinking people see that DNA is a molecular computer code of unimaginable ability that could not from itself by itself in a dead pond because nothing does not write code

No proof that's it's your preferred invisible dude. Only a possibility.

Actually there is proof that you are there and I am here.

Grow up

That also doesn't prove your preferred invisible dude.

That's why being agnostic is the thinking person's position.

Some prefer not to sit and think, but to explore and discover.

That's what agnostic's do, I know I do, and if I ever come across any real proof either way, I'm open to changing my mind. Seems fair to me, what do you think?

You would not change your mind if God stood before you and cured your blindness. Yea I know that you have no clue that you are blind

Actually, I'm AM blind. To con jobs.

So explain how even one line of DNA could form itself without an intelligence writing it? Keeping in mind that thousands of genes are needed for a small primordial life form.

You can't so you are implying the supernatural.

I can't, meaning science is still trying to figure it out. You on the other hand, don't know, so you settle on your preferred invisible buddy. Quite illogical.

OK this is progress, you say that you can't explain how DNA code wrote itself but reject that God did it because you consider God to be supernatural. The reason that you can not explain DNA is because you see that it is a complicated computer code that arranges molecules to do things, and that the molecules are code directed not arranging by weight or charge. Saying that DNA created itself out of nothing one it's own when it did not exist nor did any life exist is also supernatural

Since no one can explain how DNA created itself a creator is required, this is a scientific requirement. Tyson now sees this and in opposition of everything he has ever said is now saying that the universe is a computer program which requires a creator.

Also the only thing supernatural about God is that he is not here but perhaps trillions of miles away if his race still exist. That said God does still exist right here in you whether you know it or not

There are a number of obvious fallacies in the above.
“Since no one can explain how DNA created itself a creator is required, this is a scientific requirement.”

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

It’s a common tactic of religious extremists to retreat to fear and ignorance when they don’t understand something. It’s a bit like the gods of thunder and lightning have become the gods of DNA.


Secondly, you make a common error of confusing protein based DNA with computer code. This is a falsehood and a rather juvenile effort promoted by various fundie creation ministries to press their religious agenda.

Atheists are trying to fit what presently exists into some eternal spectrum. BEFORE GOD created the heavens and the earth, there existed NO TIME. GOD simply was. An atheist might say matter always existed throughout ALL eternity past.The Christian will ask, "But who created matter?" The atheist would laugh and say matter didn't need to be created. Well, atheists have it backwards. GOD/SPIRIT/LOVE always simply existed. THIS SPIRIT created time, space and matter. The entire Universe is an extension of GOD's thought. HE spoke and it came to be. HE formulated DNA. HE designed the various animals and gave them tasks to perform in the environment HE created. Then HE created MAN to exist in the environment HE established. HE gave HUMANS tasks to do and provided humans with the ability to think, interact, and make things. The one class that every kid loves is arts and crafts. Expression has been built into our nature. When it is stifled, people will very often begin to express themselves in ways that are destructive and harmful.

You answered her in a MUCH better way than I did. Thank you. I probably shouldn't be posting right now, not being in the greatest mood, haha.

 

[Hollie]

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

That really is the most ignorant objection of all. I mean, there are no words strong enough to express how ignorant that is.

Obviously God as the CREATOR and the First Cause is uncreated. God is eternal, which means unlike the rest of us created beings, God has no beginning and no end. So to ask who created God is like asking why 2+2 = 5 or why a man is a woman… it's nonsensical. But I noticed that in almost every atheism vs theism debate, that ignorant objection comes up, by someone who thinks they're being clever.

Your claim to your CREATOR gods as the first cause gods is in conflict with others making the same claim for their CREATOR gods.

How do you know your CREATOR gods are eternal? Why should anyone beside you accept that?

 

[Hollie]

That’s how religions go.

Actually, they do not, so once again I am wondering in which denomination (or cult) you grew up.

The Christian cult?

 

[esalla]

I have no examples of supernaturalism. I'm not aware of any event in human history that can be attributed to supernaturalism.

I would think that those suggesting supernaturalism is extant should provide specific examples. Those making a positive claim are tasked with supporting their claims.

Okay, so let's get this straight. I do not talk about supernaturalism and you say you are not aware of any event that can be attributed to it. So are you asking me to support the claims of those who do? If so, don't I need a specific example of something someone considers supernatural?

DNA creating itself in a pond from nothing would be highly supernatural Hollie knows this but will not accept the truth

What if it came from outer space on an asteroid...?

What if the asteroid was a space seed probe? Then is a billion years or so the seeds start roaming the cosmos looking for home after evolving. See I agree that on some level evolution happens however nothing does not create itself then evolve. The asteroid theory while plausible merely denies that there could be life off of Earth which is silly since the drake equation clearly scientifically predicts it

 

[Meriweather]

The Christian cult?

I asked about a specific denomination, and have been doing so for a couple of weeks now. You seem to prefer to dodge that question. And that's fine if it is private. I was just curious.

 

[buttercup]

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

That really is the most ignorant objection of all. I mean, there are no words strong enough to express how ignorant that is.

Obviously God as the CREATOR and the First Cause is uncreated. God is eternal, which means unlike the rest of us created beings, God has no beginning and no end. So to ask who created God is like asking why 2+2 = 5 or why a man is a woman… it's nonsensical. But I noticed that in almost every atheism vs theism debate, that ignorant objection comes up, by someone who thinks they're being clever.

Your claim to your CREATOR gods as the first cause gods is in conflict with others making the same claim for their CREATOR gods.

How do you know your CREATOR gods are eternal? Why should anyone beside you accept that?

You asked this question before and I answered you already. I'm not going to dig through the thread to try to find the post, or rewrite the whole thing. I'll give you the Cliff Notes version. First of all, I don't have "gods" plural, I only have one God because there only IS one God. Secondly, it's not rocket science to seek the truth, to examine and compare different beliefs systems, to see which one has evidence and valid reasons to believe, to weigh the evidence, etc., etc. It's really not that hard.

But as I said to you before, ultimately God is the one who opens our eyes, when the time is right. And as I said to you before, the time will never be right if your heart is hard and you are blinded by stubborn pride. That is not just my opinion, the scriptures are very clear that pride cuts us off from God.

 

[Hollie]

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

That really is the most ignorant objection of all. I mean, there are no words strong enough to express how ignorant that is.

Obviously God as the CREATOR and the First Cause is uncreated. God is eternal, which means unlike the rest of us created beings, God has no beginning and no end. So to ask who created God is like asking why 2+2 = 5 or why a man is a woman… it's nonsensical. But I noticed that in almost every atheism vs theism debate, that ignorant objection comes up, by someone who thinks they're being clever.

Your claim to your CREATOR gods as the first cause gods is in conflict with others making the same claim for their CREATOR gods.

How do you know your CREATOR gods are eternal? Why should anyone beside you accept that?

You asked this question before and I answered you already. I'm not going to dig through the thread to try to find the post, or rewrite the whole thing. I'll give you the Cliff Notes version. First of all, I don't have "gods" plural, I only have one God because there only IS one God. Secondly, it's not rocket science to seek the truth, to examine and compare different beliefs systems, to see which one has evidence and valid reasons to believe, to weigh the evidence, etc., etc. It's really not that hard.

But as I said to you before, ultimately God is the one who opens our eyes, when the time is right. And as I said to you before, the time will never be right if your heart is hard and you are blinded by stubborn pride. That is not just my opinion, the scriptures are very clear that pride cuts us off from God.

I see nothing in your statement that separates your god(s) from any of the others. Your claim that there is only one god is in conflict with other religions that had, and have, many gods.

I see nothing presented to support evidence of miracles and supernatural events to suggest that valid reasons exist for believing in your religion vs. another.

Is it really stubborn to reject unsupported claims, or is it being objective and honest? Isn't it being honest with the gods to reject belief in superstition and that which is unsupported?

Maybe the gods have, after all, opened my eyes and blessed me for having the conviction of conscience.

 

[buttercup]

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

That really is the most ignorant objection of all. I mean, there are no words strong enough to express how ignorant that is.

Obviously God as the CREATOR and the First Cause is uncreated. God is eternal, which means unlike the rest of us created beings, God has no beginning and no end. So to ask who created God is like asking why 2+2 = 5 or why a man is a woman… it's nonsensical. But I noticed that in almost every atheism vs theism debate, that ignorant objection comes up, by someone who thinks they're being clever.

Your claim to your CREATOR gods as the first cause gods is in conflict with others making the same claim for their CREATOR gods.

How do you know your CREATOR gods are eternal? Why should anyone beside you accept that?

You asked this question before and I answered you already. I'm not going to dig through the thread to try to find the post, or rewrite the whole thing. I'll give you the Cliff Notes version. First of all, I don't have "gods" plural, I only have one God because there only IS one God. Secondly, it's not rocket science to seek the truth, to examine and compare different beliefs systems, to see which one has evidence and valid reasons to believe, to weigh the evidence, etc., etc. It's really not that hard.

But as I said to you before, ultimately God is the one who opens our eyes, when the time is right. And as I said to you before, the time will never be right if your heart is hard and you are blinded by stubborn pride. That is not just my opinion, the scriptures are very clear that pride cuts us off from God.

I see nothing in your statement that separates your god(s) from any of the others. Your claim that there is only one god is in conflict with other religions that had, and have, many gods.

I see nothing presented to support evidence of miracles and supernatural events to suggest that valid reasons exist for believing in your religion vs. another.

Is it really stubborn to reject unsupported claims, or is it being objective and honest? Isn't it being honest with the gods to reject belief in superstition and that which is unsupported?

Maybe the gods have blessed me for having the conviction of conscience.

Oh my goodness. Did you actually think that was what I was trying to do? I wasn't trying to prove God to you or show you how and why Christianity is the true religion. (As if I could do that in one paragraph, lol) Your question was basically the same as it was the other day, how can we know which God is true? I was simply telling you (again) that it's not that hard for one to seek the truth, to compare and contrast various belief systems, to see which one matches up with the reality of this world, to weigh the evidence, etc.

You keep asking how we can know what God or religion is true, as if it is SUCH a hard or impossible thing to do. No, it's not really that hard, it just takes seeking ("seek and you will find") and a genuine desire for truth, wherever it may lead... as opposed to starting out with a hard-hearted prideful arrogant mindset and then finding info on atheist websites that agrees with your preconceived ideas.

You remind me of my Dad, who was an atheist almost his whole life, until shortly before he died. He asked that question too, and like you, he always demanded proof, like most typical atheists do, in such an arrogant, demanding, "you prove it to me" sort of way. No. That's not the way it works. It's not MY job to seek the truth for YOU. You are responsible for your own search for truth. I've already been there. But actually I wasn't even seeking God. That's what is so amazing about my story, God was literally the farthest thing from my mind, and I wanted NOTHING to do with religion. I actually hated religion. But I did have a genuine desire for truth, and without getting into the whole testimony, the bottom line is, I became a believer, not because I was seeking Jesus or God, but because I was given eyes to see, in response to a sincere desire for truth.

So the short answer to your question is: we can know because God Himself will open our eyes when the time is right. Jesus said that. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened to you.

 

[Hollie]

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

That really is the most ignorant objection of all. I mean, there are no words strong enough to express how ignorant that is.

Obviously God as the CREATOR and the First Cause is uncreated. God is eternal, which means unlike the rest of us created beings, God has no beginning and no end. So to ask who created God is like asking why 2+2 = 5 or why a man is a woman… it's nonsensical. But I noticed that in almost every atheism vs theism debate, that ignorant objection comes up, by someone who thinks they're being clever.

Your claim to your CREATOR gods as the first cause gods is in conflict with others making the same claim for their CREATOR gods.

How do you know your CREATOR gods are eternal? Why should anyone beside you accept that?

You asked this question before and I answered you already. I'm not going to dig through the thread to try to find the post, or rewrite the whole thing. I'll give you the Cliff Notes version. First of all, I don't have "gods" plural, I only have one God because there only IS one God. Secondly, it's not rocket science to seek the truth, to examine and compare different beliefs systems, to see which one has evidence and valid reasons to believe, to weigh the evidence, etc., etc. It's really not that hard.

But as I said to you before, ultimately God is the one who opens our eyes, when the time is right. And as I said to you before, the time will never be right if your heart is hard and you are blinded by stubborn pride. That is not just my opinion, the scriptures are very clear that pride cuts us off from God.

I see nothing in your statement that separates your god(s) from any of the others. Your claim that there is only one god is in conflict with other religions that had, and have, many gods.

I see nothing presented to support evidence of miracles and supernatural events to suggest that valid reasons exist for believing in your religion vs. another.

Is it really stubborn to reject unsupported claims, or is it being objective and honest? Isn't it being honest with the gods to reject belief in superstition and that which is unsupported?

Maybe the gods have blessed me for having the conviction of conscience.

Oh my goodness. Did you actually think that was what I was trying to do? I wasn't trying to prove God to you or show you how and why Christianity is the true religion. (As if I could do that in one paragraph, lol) Your question was basically the same as it was the other day, how can we know which God is true? I was simply telling you (again) that it's not that hard for one to seek the truth, to compare and contrast various belief systems, to see which one matches up with the reality of this world, to weigh the evidence, etc.

You keep asking how we can know what God or religion is true, as if it is SUCH a hard or impossible thing to do. No, it's not really that hard, it just takes seeking ("seek and you will find") and a genuine desire for truth, wherever it may lead... as opposed to starting out with a hard-hearted prideful arrogant mindset and then finding info on atheist websites that agrees with your preconceived ideas.

You remind me of my Dad, who was an atheist almost his whole life, until shortly before he died. He asked that question too, and like you, he always demanded proof, like most typical atheists do, in such an arrogant, demanding, "you prove it to me" sort of way. No. That's not the way it works. It's not MY job to seek the truth for YOU. You are responsible for your own search for truth. I've already been there. But actually I wasn't even seeking God. That's what is so amazing about my story, God was literally the farthest thing from my mind, and I wanted NOTHING to do with religion. I actually hated religion. But I did have a genuine desire for truth, and without getting into the whole testimony, the bottom line is, I became a believer, not because I was seeking Jesus or God, but because I was given eyes to see, in response to a sincere desire for truth.

So the short answer to your question is: we can know because God Himself will open our eyes when the time is right. Jesus said that. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened to you.

It seems that most of the planet is not Christian thus apparently, they don't have eyes to see. Are you really suggesting that people of religions other than Christianity haven't yet had their eyes opened by your god?

That's terrible. Those poor, eyes-closed worshippers of false religions. If only they were sincere seekers of truth.

 

[buttercup]

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

That really is the most ignorant objection of all. I mean, there are no words strong enough to express how ignorant that is.

Obviously God as the CREATOR and the First Cause is uncreated. God is eternal, which means unlike the rest of us created beings, God has no beginning and no end. So to ask who created God is like asking why 2+2 = 5 or why a man is a woman… it's nonsensical. But I noticed that in almost every atheism vs theism debate, that ignorant objection comes up, by someone who thinks they're being clever.

Your claim to your CREATOR gods as the first cause gods is in conflict with others making the same claim for their CREATOR gods.

How do you know your CREATOR gods are eternal? Why should anyone beside you accept that?

You asked this question before and I answered you already. I'm not going to dig through the thread to try to find the post, or rewrite the whole thing. I'll give you the Cliff Notes version. First of all, I don't have "gods" plural, I only have one God because there only IS one God. Secondly, it's not rocket science to seek the truth, to examine and compare different beliefs systems, to see which one has evidence and valid reasons to believe, to weigh the evidence, etc., etc. It's really not that hard.

But as I said to you before, ultimately God is the one who opens our eyes, when the time is right. And as I said to you before, the time will never be right if your heart is hard and you are blinded by stubborn pride. That is not just my opinion, the scriptures are very clear that pride cuts us off from God.

I see nothing in your statement that separates your god(s) from any of the others. Your claim that there is only one god is in conflict with other religions that had, and have, many gods.

I see nothing presented to support evidence of miracles and supernatural events to suggest that valid reasons exist for believing in your religion vs. another.

Is it really stubborn to reject unsupported claims, or is it being objective and honest? Isn't it being honest with the gods to reject belief in superstition and that which is unsupported?

Maybe the gods have blessed me for having the conviction of conscience.

Oh my goodness. Did you actually think that was what I was trying to do? I wasn't trying to prove God to you or show you how and why Christianity is the true religion. (As if I could do that in one paragraph, lol) Your question was basically the same as it was the other day, how can we know which God is true? I was simply telling you (again) that it's not that hard for one to seek the truth, to compare and contrast various belief systems, to see which one matches up with the reality of this world, to weigh the evidence, etc.

You keep asking how we can know what God or religion is true, as if it is SUCH a hard or impossible thing to do. No, it's not really that hard, it just takes seeking ("seek and you will find") and a genuine desire for truth, wherever it may lead... as opposed to starting out with a hard-hearted prideful arrogant mindset and then finding info on atheist websites that agrees with your preconceived ideas.

You remind me of my Dad, who was an atheist almost his whole life, until shortly before he died. He asked that question too, and like you, he always demanded proof, like most typical atheists do, in such an arrogant, demanding, "you prove it to me" sort of way. No. That's not the way it works. It's not MY job to seek the truth for YOU. You are responsible for your own search for truth. I've already been there. But actually I wasn't even seeking God. That's what is so amazing about my story, God was literally the farthest thing from my mind, and I wanted NOTHING to do with religion. I actually hated religion. But I did have a genuine desire for truth, and without getting into the whole testimony, the bottom line is, I became a believer, not because I was seeking Jesus or God, but because I was given eyes to see, in response to a sincere desire for truth.

So the short answer to your question is: we can know because God Himself will open our eyes when the time is right. Jesus said that. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened to you.

It seems that most of the planet is not Christian thus apparently, they don't have eyes to see. Are you really suggesting that people of religions other than Christianity haven't yet had their eyes opened by your god?

That's terrible. Those poor, eyes-closed worshippers of false religions. If only they were sincere seekers of truth.

There are Christians all over the world. There has been a HUGE, phenomenal growth of Christianity in China, in the 'underground' churches. There are also lots of Christians in South Korea, and other places you wouldn't expect.

With your prideful, mocking, sarcastic attitude it's no wonder you are still an unbeliever. Again, the scriptures are clear that an attitude like yours blocks people from God. You are only doing yourself a disservice, and missing out on the greatest thing in existence. But the choice is yours.

 

[Hollie]

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

That really is the most ignorant objection of all. I mean, there are no words strong enough to express how ignorant that is.

Obviously God as the CREATOR and the First Cause is uncreated. God is eternal, which means unlike the rest of us created beings, God has no beginning and no end. So to ask who created God is like asking why 2+2 = 5 or why a man is a woman… it's nonsensical. But I noticed that in almost every atheism vs theism debate, that ignorant objection comes up, by someone who thinks they're being clever.

Your claim to your CREATOR gods as the first cause gods is in conflict with others making the same claim for their CREATOR gods.

How do you know your CREATOR gods are eternal? Why should anyone beside you accept that?

You asked this question before and I answered you already. I'm not going to dig through the thread to try to find the post, or rewrite the whole thing. I'll give you the Cliff Notes version. First of all, I don't have "gods" plural, I only have one God because there only IS one God. Secondly, it's not rocket science to seek the truth, to examine and compare different beliefs systems, to see which one has evidence and valid reasons to believe, to weigh the evidence, etc., etc. It's really not that hard.

But as I said to you before, ultimately God is the one who opens our eyes, when the time is right. And as I said to you before, the time will never be right if your heart is hard and you are blinded by stubborn pride. That is not just my opinion, the scriptures are very clear that pride cuts us off from God.

I see nothing in your statement that separates your god(s) from any of the others. Your claim that there is only one god is in conflict with other religions that had, and have, many gods.

I see nothing presented to support evidence of miracles and supernatural events to suggest that valid reasons exist for believing in your religion vs. another.

Is it really stubborn to reject unsupported claims, or is it being objective and honest? Isn't it being honest with the gods to reject belief in superstition and that which is unsupported?

Maybe the gods have blessed me for having the conviction of conscience.

Oh my goodness. Did you actually think that was what I was trying to do? I wasn't trying to prove God to you or show you how and why Christianity is the true religion. (As if I could do that in one paragraph, lol) Your question was basically the same as it was the other day, how can we know which God is true? I was simply telling you (again) that it's not that hard for one to seek the truth, to compare and contrast various belief systems, to see which one matches up with the reality of this world, to weigh the evidence, etc.

You keep asking how we can know what God or religion is true, as if it is SUCH a hard or impossible thing to do. No, it's not really that hard, it just takes seeking ("seek and you will find") and a genuine desire for truth, wherever it may lead... as opposed to starting out with a hard-hearted prideful arrogant mindset and then finding info on atheist websites that agrees with your preconceived ideas.

You remind me of my Dad, who was an atheist almost his whole life, until shortly before he died. He asked that question too, and like you, he always demanded proof, like most typical atheists do, in such an arrogant, demanding, "you prove it to me" sort of way. No. That's not the way it works. It's not MY job to seek the truth for YOU. You are responsible for your own search for truth. I've already been there. But actually I wasn't even seeking God. That's what is so amazing about my story, God was literally the farthest thing from my mind, and I wanted NOTHING to do with religion. I actually hated religion. But I did have a genuine desire for truth, and without getting into the whole testimony, the bottom line is, I became a believer, not because I was seeking Jesus or God, but because I was given eyes to see, in response to a sincere desire for truth.

So the short answer to your question is: we can know because God Himself will open our eyes when the time is right. Jesus said that. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened to you.

It seems that most of the planet is not Christian thus apparently, they don't have eyes to see. Are you really suggesting that people of religions other than Christianity haven't yet had their eyes opened by your god?

That's terrible. Those poor, eyes-closed worshippers of false religions. If only they were sincere seekers of truth.

There are Christians all over the world. There has been a HUGE, phenomenal growth of Christianity in China, in the 'underground' churches. There are also lots of Christians in South Korea, and other places you wouldn't expect.

With your prideful, mocking, sarcastic attitude it's no wonder you are still an unbeliever. Again, the scriptures are clear that an attitude like yours blocks people from God. You are only doing yourself a disservice, and missing out on the greatest thing in existence. But the choice is yours.

I'm thinking you don't understand the anger and revulsion for non-Christians that you project.

 

[buttercup]

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

That really is the most ignorant objection of all. I mean, there are no words strong enough to express how ignorant that is.

Obviously God as the CREATOR and the First Cause is uncreated. God is eternal, which means unlike the rest of us created beings, God has no beginning and no end. So to ask who created God is like asking why 2+2 = 5 or why a man is a woman… it's nonsensical. But I noticed that in almost every atheism vs theism debate, that ignorant objection comes up, by someone who thinks they're being clever.

Your claim to your CREATOR gods as the first cause gods is in conflict with others making the same claim for their CREATOR gods.

How do you know your CREATOR gods are eternal? Why should anyone beside you accept that?

You asked this question before and I answered you already. I'm not going to dig through the thread to try to find the post, or rewrite the whole thing. I'll give you the Cliff Notes version. First of all, I don't have "gods" plural, I only have one God because there only IS one God. Secondly, it's not rocket science to seek the truth, to examine and compare different beliefs systems, to see which one has evidence and valid reasons to believe, to weigh the evidence, etc., etc. It's really not that hard.

But as I said to you before, ultimately God is the one who opens our eyes, when the time is right. And as I said to you before, the time will never be right if your heart is hard and you are blinded by stubborn pride. That is not just my opinion, the scriptures are very clear that pride cuts us off from God.

I see nothing in your statement that separates your god(s) from any of the others. Your claim that there is only one god is in conflict with other religions that had, and have, many gods.

I see nothing presented to support evidence of miracles and supernatural events to suggest that valid reasons exist for believing in your religion vs. another.

Is it really stubborn to reject unsupported claims, or is it being objective and honest? Isn't it being honest with the gods to reject belief in superstition and that which is unsupported?

Maybe the gods have blessed me for having the conviction of conscience.

Oh my goodness. Did you actually think that was what I was trying to do? I wasn't trying to prove God to you or show you how and why Christianity is the true religion. (As if I could do that in one paragraph, lol) Your question was basically the same as it was the other day, how can we know which God is true? I was simply telling you (again) that it's not that hard for one to seek the truth, to compare and contrast various belief systems, to see which one matches up with the reality of this world, to weigh the evidence, etc.

You keep asking how we can know what God or religion is true, as if it is SUCH a hard or impossible thing to do. No, it's not really that hard, it just takes seeking ("seek and you will find") and a genuine desire for truth, wherever it may lead... as opposed to starting out with a hard-hearted prideful arrogant mindset and then finding info on atheist websites that agrees with your preconceived ideas.

You remind me of my Dad, who was an atheist almost his whole life, until shortly before he died. He asked that question too, and like you, he always demanded proof, like most typical atheists do, in such an arrogant, demanding, "you prove it to me" sort of way. No. That's not the way it works. It's not MY job to seek the truth for YOU. You are responsible for your own search for truth. I've already been there. But actually I wasn't even seeking God. That's what is so amazing about my story, God was literally the farthest thing from my mind, and I wanted NOTHING to do with religion. I actually hated religion. But I did have a genuine desire for truth, and without getting into the whole testimony, the bottom line is, I became a believer, not because I was seeking Jesus or God, but because I was given eyes to see, in response to a sincere desire for truth.

So the short answer to your question is: we can know because God Himself will open our eyes when the time is right. Jesus said that. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened to you.

It seems that most of the planet is not Christian thus apparently, they don't have eyes to see. Are you really suggesting that people of religions other than Christianity haven't yet had their eyes opened by your god?

That's terrible. Those poor, eyes-closed worshippers of false religions. If only they were sincere seekers of truth.

There are Christians all over the world. There has been a HUGE, phenomenal growth of Christianity in China, in the 'underground' churches. There are also lots of Christians in South Korea, and other places you wouldn't expect.

With your prideful, mocking, sarcastic attitude it's no wonder you are still an unbeliever. Again, the scriptures are clear that an attitude like yours blocks people from God. You are only doing yourself a disservice, and missing out on the greatest thing in existence. But the choice is yours.

I'm thinking you don't understand the anger and revulsion for non-Christians that you project.

Oh my word, talk about projection! I'm laughing here. You project more than anyone. Your posts on religion or theists are always condescending, sarcastic, presumptuous, always immediately assuming the worst instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt, and just an overall nastiness... much like FFI. (Which you seem blind to, as well.) You are projecting. Merriweather said the same thing to you, and she was absolutely right.

 

[Hollie]

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

That really is the most ignorant objection of all. I mean, there are no words strong enough to express how ignorant that is.

Obviously God as the CREATOR and the First Cause is uncreated. God is eternal, which means unlike the rest of us created beings, God has no beginning and no end. So to ask who created God is like asking why 2+2 = 5 or why a man is a woman… it's nonsensical. But I noticed that in almost every atheism vs theism debate, that ignorant objection comes up, by someone who thinks they're being clever.

Your claim to your CREATOR gods as the first cause gods is in conflict with others making the same claim for their CREATOR gods.

How do you know your CREATOR gods are eternal? Why should anyone beside you accept that?

You asked this question before and I answered you already. I'm not going to dig through the thread to try to find the post, or rewrite the whole thing. I'll give you the Cliff Notes version. First of all, I don't have "gods" plural, I only have one God because there only IS one God. Secondly, it's not rocket science to seek the truth, to examine and compare different beliefs systems, to see which one has evidence and valid reasons to believe, to weigh the evidence, etc., etc. It's really not that hard.

But as I said to you before, ultimately God is the one who opens our eyes, when the time is right. And as I said to you before, the time will never be right if your heart is hard and you are blinded by stubborn pride. That is not just my opinion, the scriptures are very clear that pride cuts us off from God.

I see nothing in your statement that separates your god(s) from any of the others. Your claim that there is only one god is in conflict with other religions that had, and have, many gods.

I see nothing presented to support evidence of miracles and supernatural events to suggest that valid reasons exist for believing in your religion vs. another.

Is it really stubborn to reject unsupported claims, or is it being objective and honest? Isn't it being honest with the gods to reject belief in superstition and that which is unsupported?

Maybe the gods have blessed me for having the conviction of conscience.

Oh my goodness. Did you actually think that was what I was trying to do? I wasn't trying to prove God to you or show you how and why Christianity is the true religion. (As if I could do that in one paragraph, lol) Your question was basically the same as it was the other day, how can we know which God is true? I was simply telling you (again) that it's not that hard for one to seek the truth, to compare and contrast various belief systems, to see which one matches up with the reality of this world, to weigh the evidence, etc.

You keep asking how we can know what God or religion is true, as if it is SUCH a hard or impossible thing to do. No, it's not really that hard, it just takes seeking ("seek and you will find") and a genuine desire for truth, wherever it may lead... as opposed to starting out with a hard-hearted prideful arrogant mindset and then finding info on atheist websites that agrees with your preconceived ideas.

You remind me of my Dad, who was an atheist almost his whole life, until shortly before he died. He asked that question too, and like you, he always demanded proof, like most typical atheists do, in such an arrogant, demanding, "you prove it to me" sort of way. No. That's not the way it works. It's not MY job to seek the truth for YOU. You are responsible for your own search for truth. I've already been there. But actually I wasn't even seeking God. That's what is so amazing about my story, God was literally the farthest thing from my mind, and I wanted NOTHING to do with religion. I actually hated religion. But I did have a genuine desire for truth, and without getting into the whole testimony, the bottom line is, I became a believer, not because I was seeking Jesus or God, but because I was given eyes to see, in response to a sincere desire for truth.

So the short answer to your question is: we can know because God Himself will open our eyes when the time is right. Jesus said that. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened to you.

It seems that most of the planet is not Christian thus apparently, they don't have eyes to see. Are you really suggesting that people of religions other than Christianity haven't yet had their eyes opened by your god?

That's terrible. Those poor, eyes-closed worshippers of false religions. If only they were sincere seekers of truth.

There are Christians all over the world. There has been a HUGE, phenomenal growth of Christianity in China, in the 'underground' churches. There are also lots of Christians in South Korea, and other places you wouldn't expect.

With your prideful, mocking, sarcastic attitude it's no wonder you are still an unbeliever. Again, the scriptures are clear that an attitude like yours blocks people from God. You are only doing yourself a disservice, and missing out on the greatest thing in existence. But the choice is yours.

I'm thinking you don't understand the anger and revulsion for non-Christians that you project.

Oh my word, talk about projection! I'm laughing here. You project more than anyone. Your posts on religion or theists are always condescending, sarcastic, presumptuous, always immediately assuming the worst instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt, and just an overall nastiness... much like FFI. (Which you seem blind to, as well.) You are projecting. Merriweather said the same thing to you, and she was absolutely right.

What benefit of the doubt would you like? I'm still an unbeliever which is a term you hurl as an insult.

 

[Flash]

If God deosn't exist then we are some lucky sonofabitches because that means the universe magically made itself out of nothing. The greatest magic trick ever. Poof!

 

[buttercup]

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

That really is the most ignorant objection of all. I mean, there are no words strong enough to express how ignorant that is.

Obviously God as the CREATOR and the First Cause is uncreated. God is eternal, which means unlike the rest of us created beings, God has no beginning and no end. So to ask who created God is like asking why 2+2 = 5 or why a man is a woman… it's nonsensical. But I noticed that in almost every atheism vs theism debate, that ignorant objection comes up, by someone who thinks they're being clever.

Your claim to your CREATOR gods as the first cause gods is in conflict with others making the same claim for their CREATOR gods.

How do you know your CREATOR gods are eternal? Why should anyone beside you accept that?

You asked this question before and I answered you already. I'm not going to dig through the thread to try to find the post, or rewrite the whole thing. I'll give you the Cliff Notes version. First of all, I don't have "gods" plural, I only have one God because there only IS one God. Secondly, it's not rocket science to seek the truth, to examine and compare different beliefs systems, to see which one has evidence and valid reasons to believe, to weigh the evidence, etc., etc. It's really not that hard.

But as I said to you before, ultimately God is the one who opens our eyes, when the time is right. And as I said to you before, the time will never be right if your heart is hard and you are blinded by stubborn pride. That is not just my opinion, the scriptures are very clear that pride cuts us off from God.

I see nothing in your statement that separates your god(s) from any of the others. Your claim that there is only one god is in conflict with other religions that had, and have, many gods.

I see nothing presented to support evidence of miracles and supernatural events to suggest that valid reasons exist for believing in your religion vs. another.

Is it really stubborn to reject unsupported claims, or is it being objective and honest? Isn't it being honest with the gods to reject belief in superstition and that which is unsupported?

Maybe the gods have blessed me for having the conviction of conscience.

Oh my goodness. Did you actually think that was what I was trying to do? I wasn't trying to prove God to you or show you how and why Christianity is the true religion. (As if I could do that in one paragraph, lol) Your question was basically the same as it was the other day, how can we know which God is true? I was simply telling you (again) that it's not that hard for one to seek the truth, to compare and contrast various belief systems, to see which one matches up with the reality of this world, to weigh the evidence, etc.

You keep asking how we can know what God or religion is true, as if it is SUCH a hard or impossible thing to do. No, it's not really that hard, it just takes seeking ("seek and you will find") and a genuine desire for truth, wherever it may lead... as opposed to starting out with a hard-hearted prideful arrogant mindset and then finding info on atheist websites that agrees with your preconceived ideas.

You remind me of my Dad, who was an atheist almost his whole life, until shortly before he died. He asked that question too, and like you, he always demanded proof, like most typical atheists do, in such an arrogant, demanding, "you prove it to me" sort of way. No. That's not the way it works. It's not MY job to seek the truth for YOU. You are responsible for your own search for truth. I've already been there. But actually I wasn't even seeking God. That's what is so amazing about my story, God was literally the farthest thing from my mind, and I wanted NOTHING to do with religion. I actually hated religion. But I did have a genuine desire for truth, and without getting into the whole testimony, the bottom line is, I became a believer, not because I was seeking Jesus or God, but because I was given eyes to see, in response to a sincere desire for truth.

So the short answer to your question is: we can know because God Himself will open our eyes when the time is right. Jesus said that. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened to you.

It seems that most of the planet is not Christian thus apparently, they don't have eyes to see. Are you really suggesting that people of religions other than Christianity haven't yet had their eyes opened by your god?

That's terrible. Those poor, eyes-closed worshippers of false religions. If only they were sincere seekers of truth.

There are Christians all over the world. There has been a HUGE, phenomenal growth of Christianity in China, in the 'underground' churches. There are also lots of Christians in South Korea, and other places you wouldn't expect.

With your prideful, mocking, sarcastic attitude it's no wonder you are still an unbeliever. Again, the scriptures are clear that an attitude like yours blocks people from God. You are only doing yourself a disservice, and missing out on the greatest thing in existence. But the choice is yours.

I'm thinking you don't understand the anger and revulsion for non-Christians that you project.

Oh my word, talk about projection! I'm laughing here. You project more than anyone. Your posts on religion or theists are always condescending, sarcastic, presumptuous, always immediately assuming the worst instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt, and just an overall nastiness... much like FFI. (Which you seem blind to, as well.) You are projecting. Merriweather said the same thing to you, and she was absolutely right.

What benefit of the doubt would you like? I'm still an unbeliever which is a term you hurl as an insult.

I would have to go through the thread, which is 14 pages, to find a couple specific examples… I don't remember exactly what you said off the top of my head, but I just remember there were a couple times when you assumed something based on a preconceived false stereotype, rather than looking at us as individuals.

But anyway, I don't want to argue about that, so I'll leave you to talk to others for now. I've spent a little too much time here today, and I've got real life things to do.

 

[Hollie]

Since no one can explain how DNA a supernatural creator created itself a creator is required, an endless hierarchy of super-supernatural creators is required, this is a scientific requirement.

That really is the most ignorant objection of all. I mean, there are no words strong enough to express how ignorant that is.

Obviously God as the CREATOR and the First Cause is uncreated. God is eternal, which means unlike the rest of us created beings, God has no beginning and no end. So to ask who created God is like asking why 2+2 = 5 or why a man is a woman… it's nonsensical. But I noticed that in almost every atheism vs theism debate, that ignorant objection comes up, by someone who thinks they're being clever.

Your claim to your CREATOR gods as the first cause gods is in conflict with others making the same claim for their CREATOR gods.

How do you know your CREATOR gods are eternal? Why should anyone beside you accept that?

You asked this question before and I answered you already. I'm not going to dig through the thread to try to find the post, or rewrite the whole thing. I'll give you the Cliff Notes version. First of all, I don't have "gods" plural, I only have one God because there only IS one God. Secondly, it's not rocket science to seek the truth, to examine and compare different beliefs systems, to see which one has evidence and valid reasons to believe, to weigh the evidence, etc., etc. It's really not that hard.

But as I said to you before, ultimately God is the one who opens our eyes, when the time is right. And as I said to you before, the time will never be right if your heart is hard and you are blinded by stubborn pride. That is not just my opinion, the scriptures are very clear that pride cuts us off from God.

I see nothing in your statement that separates your god(s) from any of the others. Your claim that there is only one god is in conflict with other religions that had, and have, many gods.

I see nothing presented to support evidence of miracles and supernatural events to suggest that valid reasons exist for believing in your religion vs. another.

Is it really stubborn to reject unsupported claims, or is it being objective and honest? Isn't it being honest with the gods to reject belief in superstition and that which is unsupported?

Maybe the gods have blessed me for having the conviction of conscience.

Oh my goodness. Did you actually think that was what I was trying to do? I wasn't trying to prove God to you or show you how and why Christianity is the true religion. (As if I could do that in one paragraph, lol) Your question was basically the same as it was the other day, how can we know which God is true? I was simply telling you (again) that it's not that hard for one to seek the truth, to compare and contrast various belief systems, to see which one matches up with the reality of this world, to weigh the evidence, etc.

You keep asking how we can know what God or religion is true, as if it is SUCH a hard or impossible thing to do. No, it's not really that hard, it just takes seeking ("seek and you will find") and a genuine desire for truth, wherever it may lead... as opposed to starting out with a hard-hearted prideful arrogant mindset and then finding info on atheist websites that agrees with your preconceived ideas.

You remind me of my Dad, who was an atheist almost his whole life, until shortly before he died. He asked that question too, and like you, he always demanded proof, like most typical atheists do, in such an arrogant, demanding, "you prove it to me" sort of way. No. That's not the way it works. It's not MY job to seek the truth for YOU. You are responsible for your own search for truth. I've already been there. But actually I wasn't even seeking God. That's what is so amazing about my story, God was literally the farthest thing from my mind, and I wanted NOTHING to do with religion. I actually hated religion. But I did have a genuine desire for truth, and without getting into the whole testimony, the bottom line is, I became a believer, not because I was seeking Jesus or God, but because I was given eyes to see, in response to a sincere desire for truth.

So the short answer to your question is: we can know because God Himself will open our eyes when the time is right. Jesus said that. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened to you.

It seems that most of the planet is not Christian thus apparently, they don't have eyes to see. Are you really suggesting that people of religions other than Christianity haven't yet had their eyes opened by your god?

That's terrible. Those poor, eyes-closed worshippers of false religions. If only they were sincere seekers of truth.

There are Christians all over the world. There has been a HUGE, phenomenal growth of Christianity in China, in the 'underground' churches. There are also lots of Christians in South Korea, and other places you wouldn't expect.

With your prideful, mocking, sarcastic attitude it's no wonder you are still an unbeliever. Again, the scriptures are clear that an attitude like yours blocks people from God. You are only doing yourself a disservice, and missing out on the greatest thing in existence. But the choice is yours.

I'm thinking you don't understand the anger and revulsion for non-Christians that you project.

Oh my word, talk about projection! I'm laughing here. You project more than anyone. Your posts on religion or theists are always condescending, sarcastic, presumptuous, always immediately assuming the worst instead of giving people the benefit of the doubt, and just an overall nastiness... much like FFI. (Which you seem blind to, as well.) You are projecting. Merriweather said the same thing to you, and she was absolutely right.

What benefit of the doubt would you like? I'm still an unbeliever which is a term you hurl as an insult.

I would have to go through the thread, which is 14 pages, to find a couple specific examples… I don't remember exactly what you said off the top of my head, but I just remember there were a couple times when you assumed something based on a preconceived false stereotype, rather than looking at us as individuals.

But anyway, I don't want to argue about that, so I'll leave you to talk to others for now. I've spent a little too much time here today, and I've got real life things to do.

Ok.