If God loves us unconditionally, why does he kill us instead of curing us?

[BULLDOG]

The Bible

Interesting. Which specific things did you read that convinced you?

Lots of stuff. There are contradictions all through the bible. One of my biggest questions was how did Paul, who wasn't even an apostle, become as important as Jesus, especially when he directly contradicts Jesus's teachings.

I see. So because you can't reconcile what was written in the Bible you choose to believe there is no creator?

Because I can't reconcile what was written in the Bible, I can't consider it to be valid evidence that there is a god. I see no valid evidence elsewhere.

So because of the Bible you can’t believe there is a God.

You don’t think that sounds stupid?

Nope. It was easy as long as I believed I had the inerrant word of god to back up my religious beliefs, even if I did have to skip over some parts or twist others to match what I had been taught. Upon realizing the Bible isn't the inerrant word of god, and failing to find any other document or source to support my long held beliefs, I had questions. The standard answer to those questions always seems to be "you just gotta believe it". Well no. If you have something more than that to offer, I would be happy to hear it. What you got?

 

[james bond]

If a god did create it, how do you determine WHICH god made it? Is there any reason to choose one over another?

It's written in the book that was found centuries ago -- the Bible. God is the author and it explains what he did in Genesis. It's like an autobiography with someone else doing the writing. We know it is true because it has been verified by scholars just as we can verify a person's autobiography. Any arguments against it or contradictions can be brought up by someone who knew the person and they can provide the evidence to present an argument or show a contradiction.

You know nothing of the history of the bible.

Yet, I know and have Jesus in my heart and soul, so won't perish in the fire.

Good for you. Now, if you would just go stand in a fire so I can verify that, I'll be happy to listen to what ever you have to say.

Only if the Lake of Fire is for me and not thee. Since you dropped your fakery, the spiritually dead, like you, will see their perfectly spiritual bodies in the lake. Will it burn or will it survive?

 

[ding]

Interesting. Which specific things did you read that convinced you?

Lots of stuff. There are contradictions all through the bible. One of my biggest questions was how did Paul, who wasn't even an apostle, become as important as Jesus, especially when he directly contradicts Jesus's teachings.

I see. So because you can't reconcile what was written in the Bible you choose to believe there is no creator?

Because I can't reconcile what was written in the Bible, I can't consider it to be valid evidence that there is a god. I see no valid evidence elsewhere.

So because of the Bible you can’t believe there is a God.

You don’t think that sounds stupid?

Nope. It was easy as long as I believed I had the inerrant word of god to back up my religious beliefs, even if I did have to skip over some parts or twist others to match what I had been taught. Upon realizing the Bible isn't the inerrant word of god, and failing to find any other document or source to support my long held beliefs, I had questions. The standard answer to those questions always seems to be "you just gotta believe it". Well no. If you have something more than that to offer, I would be happy to hear it. What you got?

What part of God’s existence isn’t found in the Bible did you not understand?

 

[BULLDOG]

Lots of stuff. There are contradictions all through the bible. One of my biggest questions was how did Paul, who wasn't even an apostle, become as important as Jesus, especially when he directly contradicts Jesus's teachings.

I see. So because you can't reconcile what was written in the Bible you choose to believe there is no creator?

Because I can't reconcile what was written in the Bible, I can't consider it to be valid evidence that there is a god. I see no valid evidence elsewhere.

So because of the Bible you can’t believe there is a God.

You don’t think that sounds stupid?

Nope. It was easy as long as I believed I had the inerrant word of god to back up my religious beliefs, even if I did have to skip over some parts or twist others to match what I had been taught. Upon realizing the Bible isn't the inerrant word of god, and failing to find any other document or source to support my long held beliefs, I had questions. The standard answer to those questions always seems to be "you just gotta believe it". Well no. If you have something more than that to offer, I would be happy to hear it. What you got?

What part of God’s existence isn’t found in the Bible did you not understand?

The bible is not a reliable source for real information. Of course it espouses many universal truths, and is a profound example of ancient literature, but there are way too many contradictions to take it literally. and even the figurative passages are too wide ranging as to preclude a coherent philosophy. As I said, without the Bible to buttress belief in Christianity, there is no reason to think Christianity is any different than all the hundreds of other religions.

 

[ding]

I see. So because you can't reconcile what was written in the Bible you choose to believe there is no creator?

Because I can't reconcile what was written in the Bible, I can't consider it to be valid evidence that there is a god. I see no valid evidence elsewhere.

So because of the Bible you can’t believe there is a God.

You don’t think that sounds stupid?

Nope. It was easy as long as I believed I had the inerrant word of god to back up my religious beliefs, even if I did have to skip over some parts or twist others to match what I had been taught. Upon realizing the Bible isn't the inerrant word of god, and failing to find any other document or source to support my long held beliefs, I had questions. The standard answer to those questions always seems to be "you just gotta believe it". Well no. If you have something more than that to offer, I would be happy to hear it. What you got?

What part of God’s existence isn’t found in the Bible did you not understand?

The bible is not a reliable source for real information. Of course it espouses many universal truths, and is a profound example of ancient literature, but there are way too many contradictions to take it literally. and even the figurative passages are too wide ranging as to preclude a coherent philosophy. As I said, without the Bible to buttress belief in Christianity, there is no reason to think Christianity is any different than all the hundreds of other religions.

And here I thought you were discussing your lack of belief in the existence of God, not your lack of belief in religion.

Why don’t you believe God exists?

 

[BULLDOG]

Because I can't reconcile what was written in the Bible, I can't consider it to be valid evidence that there is a god. I see no valid evidence elsewhere.

So because of the Bible you can’t believe there is a God.

You don’t think that sounds stupid?

Nope. It was easy as long as I believed I had the inerrant word of god to back up my religious beliefs, even if I did have to skip over some parts or twist others to match what I had been taught. Upon realizing the Bible isn't the inerrant word of god, and failing to find any other document or source to support my long held beliefs, I had questions. The standard answer to those questions always seems to be "you just gotta believe it". Well no. If you have something more than that to offer, I would be happy to hear it. What you got?

What part of God’s existence isn’t found in the Bible did you not understand?

The bible is not a reliable source for real information. Of course it espouses many universal truths, and is a profound example of ancient literature, but there are way too many contradictions to take it literally. and even the figurative passages are too wide ranging as to preclude a coherent philosophy. As I said, without the Bible to buttress belief in Christianity, there is no reason to think Christianity is any different than all the hundreds of other religions.

And here I thought you were discussing your lack of belief in the existence of God, not your lack of belief in religion.

Why don’t you believe God exists?

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

 

[ding]

So because of the Bible you can’t believe there is a God.

You don’t think that sounds stupid?

Nope. It was easy as long as I believed I had the inerrant word of god to back up my religious beliefs, even if I did have to skip over some parts or twist others to match what I had been taught. Upon realizing the Bible isn't the inerrant word of god, and failing to find any other document or source to support my long held beliefs, I had questions. The standard answer to those questions always seems to be "you just gotta believe it". Well no. If you have something more than that to offer, I would be happy to hear it. What you got?

What part of God’s existence isn’t found in the Bible did you not understand?

The bible is not a reliable source for real information. Of course it espouses many universal truths, and is a profound example of ancient literature, but there are way too many contradictions to take it literally. and even the figurative passages are too wide ranging as to preclude a coherent philosophy. As I said, without the Bible to buttress belief in Christianity, there is no reason to think Christianity is any different than all the hundreds of other religions.

And here I thought you were discussing your lack of belief in the existence of God, not your lack of belief in religion.

Why don’t you believe God exists?

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

 

[BULLDOG]

Nope. It was easy as long as I believed I had the inerrant word of god to back up my religious beliefs, even if I did have to skip over some parts or twist others to match what I had been taught. Upon realizing the Bible isn't the inerrant word of god, and failing to find any other document or source to support my long held beliefs, I had questions. The standard answer to those questions always seems to be "you just gotta believe it". Well no. If you have something more than that to offer, I would be happy to hear it. What you got?

What part of God’s existence isn’t found in the Bible did you not understand?

The bible is not a reliable source for real information. Of course it espouses many universal truths, and is a profound example of ancient literature, but there are way too many contradictions to take it literally. and even the figurative passages are too wide ranging as to preclude a coherent philosophy. As I said, without the Bible to buttress belief in Christianity, there is no reason to think Christianity is any different than all the hundreds of other religions.

And here I thought you were discussing your lack of belief in the existence of God, not your lack of belief in religion.

Why don’t you believe God exists?

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

I wasn't indoctrinated into any other religions as a child, and therefore never had any reason to believe other gods might exist. I did, however believe the "Christian" god existed. I now see no reason to believe that particular god exists either. I'm not opposed to the possibility of a god. If you have some rational reason to believe in one, please present that reason. The validation I once took for granted didn't hold up to scrutiny.

 

[BULLDOG]

Nope. It was easy as long as I believed I had the inerrant word of god to back up my religious beliefs, even if I did have to skip over some parts or twist others to match what I had been taught. Upon realizing the Bible isn't the inerrant word of god, and failing to find any other document or source to support my long held beliefs, I had questions. The standard answer to those questions always seems to be "you just gotta believe it". Well no. If you have something more than that to offer, I would be happy to hear it. What you got?

What part of God’s existence isn’t found in the Bible did you not understand?

The bible is not a reliable source for real information. Of course it espouses many universal truths, and is a profound example of ancient literature, but there are way too many contradictions to take it literally. and even the figurative passages are too wide ranging as to preclude a coherent philosophy. As I said, without the Bible to buttress belief in Christianity, there is no reason to think Christianity is any different than all the hundreds of other religions.

And here I thought you were discussing your lack of belief in the existence of God, not your lack of belief in religion.

Why don’t you believe God exists?

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

If you are a Christian, Christianity requires belief in only one god. Why don't you believe others exist?

 

[ding]

What part of God’s existence isn’t found in the Bible did you not understand?

The bible is not a reliable source for real information. Of course it espouses many universal truths, and is a profound example of ancient literature, but there are way too many contradictions to take it literally. and even the figurative passages are too wide ranging as to preclude a coherent philosophy. As I said, without the Bible to buttress belief in Christianity, there is no reason to think Christianity is any different than all the hundreds of other religions.

And here I thought you were discussing your lack of belief in the existence of God, not your lack of belief in religion.

Why don’t you believe God exists?

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

I wasn't indoctrinated into any other religions as a child, and therefore never had any reason to believe other gods might exist. I did, however believe the "Christian" god existed. I now see no reason to believe that particular god exists either. I'm not opposed to the possibility of a god. If you have some rational reason to believe in one, please present that reason. The validation I once took for granted didn't hold up to scrutiny.

That really doesn't answer the question because it still sounds like you are rejecting the Christian religion.

Why don't you believe God exists? Why don't you believe that God created existence?

 

[ding]

What part of God’s existence isn’t found in the Bible did you not understand?

The bible is not a reliable source for real information. Of course it espouses many universal truths, and is a profound example of ancient literature, but there are way too many contradictions to take it literally. and even the figurative passages are too wide ranging as to preclude a coherent philosophy. As I said, without the Bible to buttress belief in Christianity, there is no reason to think Christianity is any different than all the hundreds of other religions.

And here I thought you were discussing your lack of belief in the existence of God, not your lack of belief in religion.

Why don’t you believe God exists?

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

If you are a Christian, Christianity requires belief in only one god. Why don't you believe others exist?

I believe that before the material world existed that consciousness existed. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

So you tell me, why would I believe there are multiple Gods when my perception of God is that God is consciousness without form? Because my answer is it doesn't make sense to me because I don't perceive God as you do.

So when you speak of multiple Gods it seems to me that you are again reverting back to multiple religions. Multiple religions just means there are multiple perceptions of God. Not multiple Gods.

 

[BULLDOG]

The bible is not a reliable source for real information. Of course it espouses many universal truths, and is a profound example of ancient literature, but there are way too many contradictions to take it literally. and even the figurative passages are too wide ranging as to preclude a coherent philosophy. As I said, without the Bible to buttress belief in Christianity, there is no reason to think Christianity is any different than all the hundreds of other religions.

And here I thought you were discussing your lack of belief in the existence of God, not your lack of belief in religion.

Why don’t you believe God exists?

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

I wasn't indoctrinated into any other religions as a child, and therefore never had any reason to believe other gods might exist. I did, however believe the "Christian" god existed. I now see no reason to believe that particular god exists either. I'm not opposed to the possibility of a god. If you have some rational reason to believe in one, please present that reason. The validation I once took for granted didn't hold up to scrutiny.

That really doesn't answer the question because it still sounds like you are rejecting the Christian religion.

Why don't you believe God exists? Why don't you believe that God created existence?

I don't think I can make it much simpler. I see no reason to believe a god exists because I see no reason to believe a god exists. I am completely open to the possibility, and if you have some rational reason, I would appreciate the opportunity to consider it, but so far, none has been presented, and my efforts to find such reason is not fruitful. You might note that I never said there is no god. I'll concede that as freely as I concede that unicorns might exist. Show me either one, and I'll be a believer.

 

[ding]

And here I thought you were discussing your lack of belief in the existence of God, not your lack of belief in religion.

Why don’t you believe God exists?

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

I wasn't indoctrinated into any other religions as a child, and therefore never had any reason to believe other gods might exist. I did, however believe the "Christian" god existed. I now see no reason to believe that particular god exists either. I'm not opposed to the possibility of a god. If you have some rational reason to believe in one, please present that reason. The validation I once took for granted didn't hold up to scrutiny.

That really doesn't answer the question because it still sounds like you are rejecting the Christian religion.

Why don't you believe God exists? Why don't you believe that God created existence?

I don't think I can make it much simpler. I see no reason to believe a god exists because I see no reason to believe a god exists. I am completely open to the possibility, and if you have some rational reason, I would appreciate the opportunity to consider it, but so far, none has been presented, and my efforts to find such reason is not fruitful. You might note that I never said there is no god. I'll concede that as freely as I concede that unicorns might exist. Show me either one, and I'll be a believer.

Do you see a reason why God doesn’t exist? Because you believe that, right? You don’t have a reason to believe one way or another yet you have chosen to believe one way, right?

I have a rational reason why God created space and time. Is that good enough?

 

[ding]

And here I thought you were discussing your lack of belief in the existence of God, not your lack of belief in religion.

Why don’t you believe God exists?

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

I wasn't indoctrinated into any other religions as a child, and therefore never had any reason to believe other gods might exist. I did, however believe the "Christian" god existed. I now see no reason to believe that particular god exists either. I'm not opposed to the possibility of a god. If you have some rational reason to believe in one, please present that reason. The validation I once took for granted didn't hold up to scrutiny.

That really doesn't answer the question because it still sounds like you are rejecting the Christian religion.

Why don't you believe God exists? Why don't you believe that God created existence?

I don't think I can make it much simpler. I see no reason to believe a god exists because I see no reason to believe a god exists. I am completely open to the possibility, and if you have some rational reason, I would appreciate the opportunity to consider it, but so far, none has been presented, and my efforts to find such reason is not fruitful. You might note that I never said there is no god. I'll concede that as freely as I concede that unicorns might exist. Show me either one, and I'll be a believer.

So just to be clear, do you believe that it is just as likely that unicorns exist as there is a creator who created space and time?

Because I’m pretty sure I can make an argument for a creator while you cannot make an argument for unicorns.

So do you really believe it is just as likely?

 

[BULLDOG]

The bible is not a reliable source for real information. Of course it espouses many universal truths, and is a profound example of ancient literature, but there are way too many contradictions to take it literally. and even the figurative passages are too wide ranging as to preclude a coherent philosophy. As I said, without the Bible to buttress belief in Christianity, there is no reason to think Christianity is any different than all the hundreds of other religions.

And here I thought you were discussing your lack of belief in the existence of God, not your lack of belief in religion.

Why don’t you believe God exists?

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

If you are a Christian, Christianity requires belief in only one god. Why don't you believe others exist?

I believe that before the material world existed that consciousness existed. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

So you tell me, why would I believe there are multiple Gods when my perception of God is that God is consciousness without form? Because my answer is it doesn't make sense to me because I don't perceive God as you do.

So when you speak of multiple Gods it seems to me that you are again reverting back to multiple religions. Multiple religions just means there are multiple perceptions of God. Not multiple Gods.

Interesting. I have heard that theory, or theories much like it from lots of places. I'm not denigrating your belief, or your right to your belief/beliefs in any way. That is and always will be your choice. My only concern is when people with deeply held beliefs try to legislate or otherwise direct or limit my rights based on their particular religious beliefs. Live your life as you will. Of course, we are all required to abide by certain universal tenants. Theft, murder, lying, and a host of other actions are universally considered to be forbidden whether you believe in the existence of a god or not. "Because God said so" is not, and should not be a valid remark in any broad ranging discussion concerning the behavior of the population as a whole.

 

[BULLDOG]

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

I wasn't indoctrinated into any other religions as a child, and therefore never had any reason to believe other gods might exist. I did, however believe the "Christian" god existed. I now see no reason to believe that particular god exists either. I'm not opposed to the possibility of a god. If you have some rational reason to believe in one, please present that reason. The validation I once took for granted didn't hold up to scrutiny.

That really doesn't answer the question because it still sounds like you are rejecting the Christian religion.

Why don't you believe God exists? Why don't you believe that God created existence?

I don't think I can make it much simpler. I see no reason to believe a god exists because I see no reason to believe a god exists. I am completely open to the possibility, and if you have some rational reason, I would appreciate the opportunity to consider it, but so far, none has been presented, and my efforts to find such reason is not fruitful. You might note that I never said there is no god. I'll concede that as freely as I concede that unicorns might exist. Show me either one, and I'll be a believer.

Do you see a reason why God doesn’t exist? Because you believe that, right? You don’t have a reason to believe one way or another yet you have chosen to believe one way, right?

I have a rational reason why God created space and time. Is that good enough?

I have repeatedly said I believe it's possible that a god might exist just like unicorns might exist. Virtually anything is possible. I don't have any reason to believe that is the case, and I have no reason to modify my behavior because of the possibility that either one is real.

 

[BULLDOG]

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

I wasn't indoctrinated into any other religions as a child, and therefore never had any reason to believe other gods might exist. I did, however believe the "Christian" god existed. I now see no reason to believe that particular god exists either. I'm not opposed to the possibility of a god. If you have some rational reason to believe in one, please present that reason. The validation I once took for granted didn't hold up to scrutiny.

That really doesn't answer the question because it still sounds like you are rejecting the Christian religion.

Why don't you believe God exists? Why don't you believe that God created existence?

I don't think I can make it much simpler. I see no reason to believe a god exists because I see no reason to believe a god exists. I am completely open to the possibility, and if you have some rational reason, I would appreciate the opportunity to consider it, but so far, none has been presented, and my efforts to find such reason is not fruitful. You might note that I never said there is no god. I'll concede that as freely as I concede that unicorns might exist. Show me either one, and I'll be a believer.

So just to be clear, do you believe that it is just as likely that unicorns exist as there is a creator who created space and time?

Because I’m pretty sure I can make an argument for a creator while you cannot make an argument for unicorns.

So do you really believe it is just as likely?

Yes, I believe they are equally likely. Since I have no reason to believe unicorns exist, I won't be trying to prove they do. The fact that you believe in a god but not unicorns is not a reason for me to believe a god is more likely. There are lots of people that believe in Chemtrails. Those people's sincere belief does not make that particular conspiracy theory more believable.

 

[BULLDOG]

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

I wasn't indoctrinated into any other religions as a child, and therefore never had any reason to believe other gods might exist. I did, however believe the "Christian" god existed. I now see no reason to believe that particular god exists either. I'm not opposed to the possibility of a god. If you have some rational reason to believe in one, please present that reason. The validation I once took for granted didn't hold up to scrutiny.

That really doesn't answer the question because it still sounds like you are rejecting the Christian religion.

Why don't you believe God exists? Why don't you believe that God created existence?

I don't think I can make it much simpler. I see no reason to believe a god exists because I see no reason to believe a god exists. I am completely open to the possibility, and if you have some rational reason, I would appreciate the opportunity to consider it, but so far, none has been presented, and my efforts to find such reason is not fruitful. You might note that I never said there is no god. I'll concede that as freely as I concede that unicorns might exist. Show me either one, and I'll be a believer.

So just to be clear, do you believe that it is just as likely that unicorns exist as there is a creator who created space and time?

Because I’m pretty sure I can make an argument for a creator while you cannot make an argument for unicorns.

So do you really believe it is just as likely?

If you want to present a case for a god/creator, then please do. I will be happy to give it serious consideration. I suspect I have already looked at most of what you might say, because I didn't arrive at my belief lightly, but give it a shot. I welcome the opportunity to have my mind changed by credible evidence.

 

[ding]

And here I thought you were discussing your lack of belief in the existence of God, not your lack of belief in religion.

Why don’t you believe God exists?

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

If you are a Christian, Christianity requires belief in only one god. Why don't you believe others exist?

I believe that before the material world existed that consciousness existed. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

So you tell me, why would I believe there are multiple Gods when my perception of God is that God is consciousness without form? Because my answer is it doesn't make sense to me because I don't perceive God as you do.

So when you speak of multiple Gods it seems to me that you are again reverting back to multiple religions. Multiple religions just means there are multiple perceptions of God. Not multiple Gods.

Interesting. I have heard that theory, or theories much like it from lots of places. I'm not denigrating your belief, or your right to your belief/beliefs in any way. That is and always will be your choice. My only concern is when people with deeply held beliefs try to legislate or otherwise direct or limit my rights based on their particular religious beliefs. Live your life as you will. Of course, we are all required to abide by certain universal tenants. Theft, murder, lying, and a host of other actions are universally considered to be forbidden whether you believe in the existence of a god or not. "Because God said so" is not, and should not be a valid remark in any broad ranging discussion concerning the behavior of the population as a whole.

I can’t say I understand why you believe people are trying to force their religion upon you. It seems you are over reacting.

But I hear that complaint a lot. I just don’t agree that it is happening.

I don’t believe I have ever said because God said so. For instance I’m not against abortion because God said so. I am against abortion because it is wrong to end a human life, especially for selfish reasons. My argument against abortion is based on science and is a legal argument. Do you believe I am forcing my relyupon you because I oppose abortion? Or am I participating in the secular process the same as you?

 

[BULLDOG]

Of course I believe religion exists, and I believe in the same universal truths that most religions espouse. Compassion, forgiveness, charity, love. Those things don't require a god. I don't see any reason to believe a god exists for the same reason I don't believe unicorns exist. I do take note that with the same evidence of existence, there aren't large numbers of scam artists bilking little old ladies out of their social security with the claim that it's what some unicorn says they should do..

I wasn’t asking you if you believe religion exists. When I asked you why you didn’t believe God existed you argued why you didn’t accept a specific religion.

You still haven’t told me why you don’t believe God exists. You say it is for the same reason you don’t believe unicorns exist. I can only assume that means you have never seen one. I’m sure there are many things you have never seen before but do believe they do exist, right?

So why don’t you believe God exists?

If you are a Christian, Christianity requires belief in only one god. Why don't you believe others exist?

I believe that before the material world existed that consciousness existed. That Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

So you tell me, why would I believe there are multiple Gods when my perception of God is that God is consciousness without form? Because my answer is it doesn't make sense to me because I don't perceive God as you do.

So when you speak of multiple Gods it seems to me that you are again reverting back to multiple religions. Multiple religions just means there are multiple perceptions of God. Not multiple Gods.

Interesting. I have heard that theory, or theories much like it from lots of places. I'm not denigrating your belief, or your right to your belief/beliefs in any way. That is and always will be your choice. My only concern is when people with deeply held beliefs try to legislate or otherwise direct or limit my rights based on their particular religious beliefs. Live your life as you will. Of course, we are all required to abide by certain universal tenants. Theft, murder, lying, and a host of other actions are universally considered to be forbidden whether you believe in the existence of a god or not. "Because God said so" is not, and should not be a valid remark in any broad ranging discussion concerning the behavior of the population as a whole.

I can’t say I understand why you believe people are trying to force their religion upon you. It seems you are over reacting.

But I hear that complaint a lot. I just don’t agree that it is happening.

I don’t believe I have ever said because God said so. For instance I’m not against abortion because God said so. I am against abortion because it is wrong to end a human life, especially for selfish reasons. My argument against abortion is based on science and is a legal argument. Do you believe I am forcing my relyupon you because I oppose abortion? Or am I participating in the secular process the same as you?

Your opposition to abortion is based on the agreement made with TV preachers to support anti-abortion in exchange for their support of the GOP. Abortion was accepted and mostly uncontroversial before the unholy alliance between Jerry Falwell and the GOP.