If Hobby Lobby wins...

[Darkwind]

You progressives do understand, that Hobby Lobby, or any employer, has no actual force of law to force you or anyone to do anything, right?

Unlike Government, who will shoot you full of holes if you refuse to obey their orders...


Right? YOU DO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE IN POWER STRUCTURES, RIGHT!?!

 

[buckeye45_73]

Tell me how paying a portion of insurance costs either A makes a law respecting the establishment of religion or B prohibits the free exercise of religion.

BTW it doesn't.

Example:

I'm an employer
Supporting abortion in any way is contrary to my religion.
The law forces me to pay my money which I labored for to pay for abortion contrary to my religious beliefs.
Being forced to pay for arbotion takes away my ability to freely oppose supporting abortion.

IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE HERE.

I've given you the perfect rationalization for that. Religious people rationalize all the time and cherry pick the sins they wish to take a stand on.

The employee premium contributions more than cover the "sinful" coverage so the employer is not funding them the employee is.

If an employer has no issue with paying a gay adulterer money that supports his life style why would that employer have a problem letting the employee's premium contribution pay for the sinful coverage?

Youre wrong. People dont have to work for a company, dont like it leave. Why do YOU want to impose your lifestyle on others......there is a phrase called, its none of your business.....think about it

 

[Redfish]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

It would have never started if liberals didn't force people to buy health insurance. Your kind started this mess, now you can sit down and shut up. Liberals do nothing, but cause trouble.

It was the Heritage Foundation but thanks for the history lesson. Let me also add yesterday was Tuesday

Damn, stop the lies, the Heritage Foundation did not dream up obamacare. Romney did not dream up obamacare.

A bunch of 20 something democrat staffers wrote that piece of shit legislation and the dem idiots in congress voted for it like a bunch of baboons in a banana plantation.

 

[boilermaker55]

What is really hilarious is to read your idiotic replies and then see you profess to be educated.
What a joke of a person.

No one can force beliefs on employees because no one is obligated to become the employee of someone else.

Heres the rub tho. What if more employers start imposing more "beliefs"? And a few turn to hundreds? The rule still applies that no one HAS to work there but many will have to work somewhere which means some will be exposed to it.

Does the worker lose their right to the CEO's belief?

You're a fucking lying douchebag moron of a scumbag.

The employer isn't trying to control ANYTHING the employee does or doesn't do.

All the employer is saying is that he doesn't want to pay for an abortifacient.

Nothing against Birth Control, he doesn't want to be forced to pay for abortifacients.

You're a lying scumbag

 

[Lovebears65]

I like how pro choice women want us to stay out of their right to chose but they also want us to pay for it .. Cant have it both ways..

 

[ScreamingEagle]

You progressives do understand, that Hobby Lobby, or any employer, has no actual force of law to force you or anyone to do anything, right?

Unlike Government, who will shoot you full of holes if you refuse to obey their orders...


Right? YOU DO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE IN POWER STRUCTURES, RIGHT!?!

which is exactly why Obamacare is a travesty and should be repealed...

 

[Papageorgio]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

The issue isn't a company forcing a belief on an employee, the issue is a government forcing a belief on a company.

Does the government have a right to make you buy something that you violates your religious principles?

 

[ClosedCaption]

It would have never started if liberals didn't force people to buy health insurance. Your kind started this mess, now you can sit down and shut up. Liberals do nothing, but cause trouble.

It was the Heritage Foundation but thanks for the history lesson. Let me also add yesterday was Tuesday

Damn, stop the lies, the Heritage Foundation did not dream up obamacare. Romney did not dream up obamacare.

A bunch of 20 something democrat staffers wrote that piece of shit legislation and the dem idiots in congress voted for it like a bunch of baboons in a banana plantation.

If I said that it would be a lie

Heritage thought up the penalty if you dont pay. Cons loved it right up until Obama said "good idea" then suddenly they didnt want any parts of it and reveal they've been secretly *wink wink* against it the entire time

 

[Redfish]

It was the Heritage Foundation but thanks for the history lesson. Let me also add yesterday was Tuesday

Damn, stop the lies, the Heritage Foundation did not dream up obamacare. Romney did not dream up obamacare.

A bunch of 20 something democrat staffers wrote that piece of shit legislation and the dem idiots in congress voted for it like a bunch of baboons in a banana plantation.

If I said that it would be a lie

Heritage thought up the penalty if you dont pay. Cons loved it right up until Obama said "good idea" then suddenly they didnt want any parts of it and reveal they've been secretly *wink wink* against it the entire time

Apples and oranges, but you knew that too and just keep posting the dem/lib lying talking points day after day after day. I really hope they are paying you to post that shit, because if you are doing it free, you are really a loon.

 

[dblack]

It was the Heritage Foundation but thanks for the history lesson. Let me also add yesterday was Tuesday

Damn, stop the lies, the Heritage Foundation did not dream up obamacare. Romney did not dream up obamacare.

A bunch of 20 something democrat staffers wrote that piece of shit legislation and the dem idiots in congress voted for it like a bunch of baboons in a banana plantation.

If I said that it would be a lie

Heritage thought up the penalty if you dont pay. Cons loved it right up until Obama said "good idea" then suddenly they didnt want any parts of it and reveal they've been secretly *wink wink* against it the entire time

I suppose some did and some didn't. In the end, the only opinions that matter were those that resulted in votes for legislation that became law. When it comes to the ACA, those votes came solely from Democrats.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Damn, stop the lies, the Heritage Foundation did not dream up obamacare. Romney did not dream up obamacare.

A bunch of 20 something democrat staffers wrote that piece of shit legislation and the dem idiots in congress voted for it like a bunch of baboons in a banana plantation.

If I said that it would be a lie

Heritage thought up the penalty if you dont pay. Cons loved it right up until Obama said "good idea" then suddenly they didnt want any parts of it and reveal they've been secretly *wink wink* against it the entire time

Apples and oranges, .

Thats fruit not a rebuttal

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

The issue isn't a company forcing a belief on an employee, the issue is a government forcing a belief on a company.

Does the government have a right to make you buy something that you violates your religious principles?

does the government have the right to make you buy anything....?

 

[Redfish]

If I said that it would be a lie

Heritage thought up the penalty if you dont pay. Cons loved it right up until Obama said "good idea" then suddenly they didnt want any parts of it and reveal they've been secretly *wink wink* against it the entire time

Apples and oranges, .

Thats fruit not a rebuttal

do you understand what the expression "apples and oranges" means? This thread is about hobby lobby and abortion pills, not about the origins of ACA.

 

[Uncensored2008]

If I said that it would be a lie

Heritage thought up the penalty if you dont pay. Cons loved it right up until Obama said "good idea" then suddenly they didnt want any parts of it and reveal they've been secretly *wink wink* against it the entire time

You've never read the Heritage proposal. You've only read mindless hate points from ThinkProgress, then you come here and misrepresent ideas you never read from biased bullshit off of a hate site.

You're not really expecting to have credibility, are you?

_________________________________________________________________________________

EDIT:

Here is the Heritage mandate that the hate sites have programmed CC to post about;

{We would include a mandate in our proposal–not a mandate on employers, but a mandate on heads of households–to obtain at least a basic package of health insurance for themselves and their families. That would have to include, by federal law, a catastrophic provision in the form of a stop loss for a family’s total health outlays. It would have to include all members of the family, and it might also include certain very specific services, such as preventive care, well baby visits, and other items.}

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...e-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/

Not exactly Obama's fascist care, despite the repeated claims from KOS Kiddies and other mindless automatons on the interwebz.

 

[TooTall]

Heres the rub and correct me if I'm wrong (because I'm a nice guy like that). Hobby Lobby BELIEVES that some cause abortion but technically it doesnt. But because they believe it does they dont want to offer it even if they're belief is not factual. They incorrectly label some as being abortive when they are not.

So, if true. Facts dont matter really, you can just label something whatever you want and if that label oversteps your belief you dont have to offer it.

Its slippery as shit.

You are wrong, the drugs they object to DO cause abortions. Its not a belief, its a fact.

It turns out that the politically charged debate over morning-after pills and abortion, a divisive issue in this election year, is probably rooted in outdated or incorrect scientific guesses about how the pills work. Because they block creation of fertilized eggs, they would not meet abortion opponents’ definition of abortion-inducing drugs. In contrast, RU-486, a medication prescribed for terminating pregnancies, destroys implanted embryos.

The notion that morning-after pills prevent eggs from implanting stems from the Food and Drug Administration’s decision during the drug-approval process to mention that possibility on the label — despite lack of scientific proof, scientists say, and objections by the manufacturer of Plan B, the pill on the market the longest. Leading scientists say studies since then provide strong evidence that Plan B does not prevent implantation, and no proof that a newer type of pill, Ella, does. Some abortion opponents said they remain unconvinced.

After The Times asked about this issue, A.D.A.M., the firm that writes medical entries for the National Institutes of Health Web site, deleted passages suggesting emergency contraceptives could disrupt implantation. The Times, which uses A.D.A.M.’s content on its health Web page, updated its site. The medical editor in chief of the Web site for the Mayo Clinic, Dr. Roger W. Harms, said “we are champing at the bit” to revise the entry if the Food and Drug Administration changes labels or other agencies make official pronouncements.

“These medications are there to prevent or delay ovulation,” said Dr. Petra M. Casey, an obstetrician-gynecologist at Mayo. “They don’t act after fertilization.”

The F.D.A. declined to discuss decisions about the effect on implantation or to say whether it would consider revising labels. But Erica Jefferson, an F.D.A. spokeswoman, acknowledged: “The emerging data on Plan B suggest that it does not inhibit implantation. Less is known about Ella. However, some data suggest it also does not inhibit implantation.”

Scientists say the pills work up to five days after sex, primarily stalling an egg’s release until sperm can no longer fertilize it. Although many people think sperm and egg unite immediately after sex, sperm need time to position themselves.

Maybe this is another case where we hear dont care about science based on the scientist

You didn't give a link to your 'scientific' explanation, but it appears to be just some opinions of a couple of Doctors. Here is your correction because you are wrong.

Read this:

Medical Abortions, also known as RU486 or "the abortion pill", are safe and effective methods of non-surgical abortions for women less than 9 weeks pregnant. Medical abortions are completed through taking two sets of pills, which result in a miscarriage-like abortion.

How it works
RU486 abortions are completed through combining two medications, Mifeprex and Misoprostol. The first pill, Mifeprex, is taken in the medical office, and blocks the action of progesterone, a hormone needed to continue the pregnancy. 12-48 hours after taking Mifeprex, a woman will take the second set of tablets, Misoprostol, at home. Misoprostol works to gently soften and open the cervix, so that the discontinued pregnancy can pass through.

Effectiveness
Medical abortions are 95-98% effective in completely terminating a pregnancy. Rates of effectiveness can depend on the treatment regimen and length of pregnancy. Though most medical abortions are successful, incomplete abortions are safely completed with additional medication or a surgical D&C procedure.

Benefits to choosing medical abortion
Most women who choose medical over surgical abortions do so to avoid having surgery. These women often express that a medical abortion seems less invasive, that they feel more in control, and that they prefer to have their abortion experience at home. Many women also state that the medical abortion process seems to be more "natural" because it produces a miscarriage-like experience.

Abortion Clinic : Medical Abortion / RU486

 

[ClosedCaption]

Apples and oranges, .

Thats fruit not a rebuttal

do you understand what the expression "apples and oranges" means? This thread is about hobby lobby and abortion pills, not about the origins of ACA.

Yes I understand and it usually comes with a rebuttal of why they arent the same. Dont quote me if you dont want to discuss the topic in my post. Its really that simple

 

[ClosedCaption]

If I said that it would be a lie

Heritage thought up the penalty if you dont pay. Cons loved it right up until Obama said "good idea" then suddenly they didnt want any parts of it and reveal they've been secretly *wink wink* against it the entire time

You've never read the Heritage proposal. You've only read mindless hate points from ThinkProgress, then you come here and misrepresent ideas you never read from biased bullshit off of a hate site.

You're not really expecting to have credibility, are you?

Thats not a rebuttal

 

[ClosedCaption]

You are wrong, the drugs they object to DO cause abortions. Its not a belief, its a fact.

Maybe this is another case where we hear dont care about science based on the scientist

You didn't give a link to your 'scientific' explanation, but it appears to be just some opinions of a couple of Doctors. Here is your correction because you are wrong.

Read this:

Medical Abortions, also known as RU486 or "the abortion pill", are safe and effective methods of non-surgical abortions for women less than 9 weeks pregnant. Medical abortions are completed through taking two sets of pills, which result in a miscarriage-like abortion.

How it works
RU486 abortions are completed through combining two medications, Mifeprex and Misoprostol. The first pill, Mifeprex, is taken in the medical office, and blocks the action of progesterone, a hormone needed to continue the pregnancy. 12-48 hours after taking Mifeprex, a woman will take the second set of tablets, Misoprostol, at home. Misoprostol works to gently soften and open the cervix, so that the discontinued pregnancy can pass through.

Effectiveness
Medical abortions are 95-98% effective in completely terminating a pregnancy. Rates of effectiveness can depend on the treatment regimen and length of pregnancy. Though most medical abortions are successful, incomplete abortions are safely completed with additional medication or a surgical D&C procedure.

Benefits to choosing medical abortion
Most women who choose medical over surgical abortions do so to avoid having surgery. These women often express that a medical abortion seems less invasive, that they feel more in control, and that they prefer to have their abortion experience at home. Many women also state that the medical abortion process seems to be more "natural" because it produces a miscarriage-like experience.

Abortion Clinic : Medical Abortion / RU486

Why are you talking about the abortion pill everyone agrees is an abortion pill and not the plan B pill which is the topic of debate?

Of course it says something different we are talking about 2 different pills

 

[Uncensored2008]

If I said that it would be a lie

Heritage thought up the penalty if you dont pay. Cons loved it right up until Obama said "good idea" then suddenly they didnt want any parts of it and reveal they've been secretly *wink wink* against it the entire time

You've never read the Heritage proposal. You've only read mindless hate points from ThinkProgress, then you come here and misrepresent ideas you never read from biased bullshit off of a hate site.

You're not really expecting to have credibility, are you?

Thats not a rebuttal

Yeah, it actually is;

{We would include a mandate in our proposal–not a mandate on employers, but a mandate on heads of households–to obtain at least a basic package of health insurance for themselves and their families. That would have to include, by federal law, a catastrophic provision in the form of a stop loss for a family’s total health outlays. It would have to include all members of the family, and it might also include certain very specific services, such as preventive care, well baby visits, and other items.}

How the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank, Promoted the Individual Mandate - Forbes

You are talking shit, based on hate points from one of the whackjob sites you frequent - and have NO IDEA what the actual proposal was.

 

[Redfish]

Thats fruit not a rebuttal

do you understand what the expression "apples and oranges" means? This thread is about hobby lobby and abortion pills, not about the origins of ACA.

Yes I understand and it usually comes with a rebuttal of why they arent the same. Dont quote me if you dont want to discuss the topic in my post. Its really that simple

bullshit does not merit a rebuttal. your claims have been debunked by several others already.

you look like a fool-----------------as usual.