If I have to Put up with a Bazillion Trump aka neuveua Palin Threads ....

[LadyGunSlinger]

It no longer matters.. Arizona just passed the first law that will require DingleBarry along with EVERY candidate for POTUS to PROVE with legal documentation that they are a US citizen and as stated in the bill, a COLB will NOT suffice.. anyone can obtain a COLB... ANYONE! All of you libs can whine, cry, moan, have a temper tantrum.. it's over. If he wants to run he'll have to provide it now or lose Arizona.. Several other states will follow the article said. HEY DINGLEBARRY, MAN UP.. LOL

 

[WorldWatcher]

A BC can not exist without a CoLB
A CoLB CAN exist without a BC

But that is becuase a CoLB is not deemed valid until the state reviews it and sacntions it...and then a BC is drafted and filed.

In many states, a "Certificate of Live Birth" is statutorily defined as a birth certificate. The truth of the matter is that all of this "Certificate of Live Birth/Birth Certificate" nonsense is nothing more than playing word games and trying to invent layers of documentation that do not necessarily exist. Why do you continue to ignore this? All you birthers are such experts in the practices of Hawaiian record keeping you should go to Hawaii and tell them about it. Because you all apparently know things that their own laws deny.

No sir...that is what you have convinced yourself is the case.

It is not semantics.

It is about attesting to something...it is about a state document and a document used to draft a state document.

The hospital drafts a dcoument that states the Jane doe was born at the premises..to the following parents..and it is alive..and is temporarily a state resident..and it is filed with the state...

The state then reviews the information....confirms the accuracy...and then drafts a STATE document...the BC..

One is drafted by a clerk in a hospital...NOT YET A STATE DOCUMENT....and then the STATE drafts the BC....A STATE DOCUMENT.

Case closed....you learned somethiung today.

JH,


1. In the image above, top left corner, could you read the text there please.

2. In the image above, top right corner, could you read the text there please.

2. In the printed seal of at the top center of the page, could you read the text curving around the top of the seal, could you read that please.

3. The printed text centered at the bottom of the page that begins with "This copy...", could you read that please.



Was this document created by a hospital or the state?



>>>>

 

[sitarro]

Just an FYI.....

If you were an employer and you were audited by the DoL and one of your employees had a file with an I-9 form and attasched to it was a Certificate of Live Birth and a state drivers license....you would be fined and forced to suspend that employee until he produced one of three things:

1) A valid US passport
2) A Birth Certificate with a raised seal
3) A letter from the department of state of birth confirming that there is a valid BC that corresponds with the hospital issued Certificate of Live Birth

So that being siad...he fooled the shit out of you....he produced nothing deemed by his OWN government that he heads up that is considered proof of citizenship.

Lol...I guess he sees you as just too stupid to know this. He fooled the shit out of ya.

You haven't even bothered to educate yourself on the matter. Instead, you're playing tomato/tomahto games. Birth certificates are issued by individual states. Each state has their own procedures and policies regarding vital records. In most states, a birth certificate is called a "Certificate of Live Birth." You're trying to draw some distinction that does not exist.

When a person requests a birth certificate, they are not issued the "original" document. The record holder must retain such things, because otherwise they wouldn't be a record keeper now would they? Instead they are issued certified copies. Those copies are certified in one of a couple possible ways.

One way is that they can be accompanied with a notarized letter from the record keeper stating that the copy is a true and accurate copy of the records the department in question has on file. I've seen this several times with certified copies of marriage licenses while I was living in San Antonio. I used to work in the wedding business and would frequently have to file marriage licenses after the wedding. In addition to filing the paperwork with the county's department of vital statistics, some clients would also request that I obtain certified copies of the ML that they could use to send away the paperwork needed for the bride's name change, military purposes, etc. The Bexar county clerk uses digital copies, so a certified copy ends up being nothing more than a black and white print out of the digital record, with an attached notarized letter stating that the foregoing print out is a true and accurate reflection of that which the county clerk has on record.

The second way that a BC copy can be certified is to be directly notarized. Essentially, the letter of authentication is on the copy itself in some way. For some states, like the state of PA where I was born, this is done simply with a raised seal, and a raised stamp of the signature of the State Registrar. In HI, there is a brief attestation along with a raised seal. I've also personally seen this kind of method used in San Antonio when I filed my DBA. I don't know why the same office would use different techniques for different documents, but whatever. When I got a copy of my DBA paperwork, there was a small area on the back simply saying "By affixing my hand, I certify that this copy is a true and accurate reflection of the records on file with the Bexar County Clerk" or something to that effect. The guy put is signature stamp on it, pressed it with the county seal, and I was out the door.

Then Senator Obama already has released his birth certificate, complete with raised seal and attestation on the reverse, during his campaign. All the talk that has continued since then has decried that it is a "Certification of Live Birth" in a fallacious equivocation with what SOME OTHER STATES refer to a "Certification of Live Birth." In some areas, a "Certification of Live Birth" is issued by a hospital, which is subsequently used by the state to issue a "Birth Certificate." In PA, a birth certificate is officially titled a "Certification of Birth." According to the birther and semi-birther crowds, my birth certificate would not be a birth certificate. But I have always used that "Certification of Birth" along with nothing more than a DL to legally obtain employment.

Let's start calling a duck and duck. Obama has released his birth certificate. His "Certification of Live Birth" IS his birth certificate. The State of Hawaii Department of vital records has affirmed that. They have also affirmed that the "original" documents are indeed on record in their registry. Anyone who wants to continue to bitch and complain that Obama hasn't released his documents or that his documents are somehow lacking is either a complete idiot who is incapable of employing language, or a complete idiot who is intentionally and dishonestly trying to twist and manipulate basic language for political points.

It's to think that all of the Hawaiian officials are lying, also, and going along with Obama's somehow forged B/C that he did release.

Birthers, you're right. The President of the United fucking States put out a fake birth cirtificate, and Hawaiian Officials are all in on it, the newspaper from his time of birth, his passports, the Hospital, everything is all a grandiose conspiracy.

What's the name of the hospital? Who was the doctor that pulled the little shit out?

 

[gekaap]

No sir...that is what you have convinced yourself is the case.

It is not semantics.

It is about attesting to something...it is about a state document and a document used to draft a state document.

The hospital drafts a dcoument that states the Jane doe was born at the premises..to the following parents..and it is alive..and is temporarily a state resident..and it is filed with the state...

The state then reviews the information....confirms the accuracy...and then drafts a STATE document...the BC..

One is drafted by a clerk in a hospital...NOT YET A STATE DOCUMENT....and then the STATE drafts the BC....A STATE DOCUMENT.

Case closed....you learned somethiung today.

Perhaps you need to go and do a little research into the laws of the state of Hawaii. The statutes clearly state that the state shall issue "Certificates of Live Birth" as "birth certificates." The document Obama has and has released to the public is clearly from the state government, and it attested to by the state government.

 

[Jarhead]

Best way to put it...

And dont take this word for word,,,it is an analogy..

A CoLB is the equivaqlent of an appication for a BC.

It CAN be rejected by the state for a variety of reasons including, but not limited to clerical errors..

You can have a CoLB without a BC....you can not have a BC without a CoLB.

Hospitals submit the CoLB....hopsitals are not authorized to draft State documents.

Police dpartments sometimes submit a CoLB

Midwives can submit a CoLB

OBGYN's can submit a CoLB

It attests to the birth of the child....but it is not deemed a state document until it is sanctioned by the state and the state drafts a BC in response.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

No sir...that is what you have convinced yourself is the case.

It is not semantics.

It is about attesting to something...it is about a state document and a document used to draft a state document.

The hospital drafts a dcoument that states the Jane doe was born at the premises..to the following parents..and it is alive..and is temporarily a state resident..and it is filed with the state...

The state then reviews the information....confirms the accuracy...and then drafts a STATE document...the BC..

One is drafted by a clerk in a hospital...NOT YET A STATE DOCUMENT....and then the STATE drafts the BC....A STATE DOCUMENT.

Case closed....you learned somethiung today.

Perhaps you need to go and do a little research into the laws of the state of Hawaii. The statutes clearly state that the state shall issue "Certificates of Live Birth" as "birth certificates." The document Obama has and has released to the public is clearly from the state government, and it attested to by the state government.

LMAO You and every other lib can try to provide cover for the Usurper but it's too late.. He will have to comply with the very Constitution he swore to defend and PROVE now he's a legal US citizen with a LEGAL BC.. NOT SOME BULLSHIT WORTHLESS PIECE OF PAPER THAT ANYONE CAN OBTAIN.. GO ARIZONA~~~

 

[Ravi]

LMAO..

I left this debate yesterday becuase I saw that it was going nowhere....Those that are convinced they are right did all they could to suppoirt the things they had and refused to open their mind to alternatives.....so I realized they have their thinking and I had mine.

I never gave this whole birther thing a single thought until last week when I was audited by the DoL to ensure my i-9 files were in compliance and the auditor told me that a CoLB from ANY state does not hold as much weight as a BC or a CoB...and thus why I chimed in here....

But no one wanted to addrssss that...they just wanted to be right and ignore ANY questions that seem to be very valid and reasonable...

Yet....

Here we are...24 hours later...and the same two people are still debating without a single concern about certain discrpencies...

They just want to be right.....good for them.

Sadly, the must have their doubts...cause all they had to do was say they are right and move on...

It was addressed many times and we determined that you were given false information. You should report that guy for spreading false information or at the very least call him up and ask him to clarify himself as you possibly misunderstood him.

Wrong.
Accurate information.
Do little research on I-9 complaince.

A CoLB is drafted by a hosptial. A clerk in amny cases. A clerk with a private entity...A private entity does not have the right to sanction a document and make it a state document. The state must do that.

THat is why they have BC's...

you really need to open your mind....you have the right to be wrong....and you are in this case.

Do a little research.

A CoLB is not a BC....in ANY State.

Why?

Becuase the word "live" is the key....no one in some state capital is there to say the child was "live"....

No, but the doctor or the midwife will determine if the child is alive.

I posted earlier OSHA's handbook for employers that contained examples of documents that met the requirements. One of them was a Certificate of Live Birth.

Either you are lying of the auditor is stupid.

 

[gekaap]

Best way to put it...

And dont take this word for word,,,it is an analogy..

A CoLB is the equivaqlent of an appication for a BC.

It CAN be rejected by the state for a variety of reasons including, but not limited to clerical errors..

You can have a CoLB without a BC....you can not have a BC without a CoLB.

Hospitals submit the CoLB....hopsitals are not authorized to draft State documents.

Police dpartments sometimes submit a CoLB

Midwives can submit a CoLB

OBGYN's can submit a CoLB

It attests to the birth of the child....but it is not deemed a state document until it is sanctioned by the state and the state drafts a BC in response.

You need evidence of your claims.

 

[Jarhead]

No sir...that is what you have convinced yourself is the case.

It is not semantics.

It is about attesting to something...it is about a state document and a document used to draft a state document.

The hospital drafts a dcoument that states the Jane doe was born at the premises..to the following parents..and it is alive..and is temporarily a state resident..and it is filed with the state...

The state then reviews the information....confirms the accuracy...and then drafts a STATE document...the BC..

One is drafted by a clerk in a hospital...NOT YET A STATE DOCUMENT....and then the STATE drafts the BC....A STATE DOCUMENT.

Case closed....you learned somethiung today.

Perhaps you need to go and do a little research into the laws of the state of Hawaii. The statutes clearly state that the state shall issue "Certificates of Live Birth" as "birth certificates." The document Obama has and has released to the public is clearly from the state government, and it attested to by the state government.

I dont doubt that...

But the CoLB originally was NOT a BC...it may become one when it is approved and sanctioned by the state....but it is not one when it is drafted.

That being said, it is only logical that MOST states differentiate between the two...as one is drafted by a non state employee..and the other is SANCTIONED by a state employee.

Hawaii may do it that way.....thats fine with me....but it is logical that the DoL will not accept a CoLB without proof there is a corresponding BC or CoB...becuase some CoLB's do not have corresponding BC's...

And all I said yesterday to start off was that I was confused as to why Obama and his team said they were the exact same thing...in Hawaii, maybe...but at the national level, they are vastly different.

 

[Jarhead]

It was addressed many times and we determined that you were given false information. You should report that guy for spreading false information or at the very least call him up and ask him to clarify himself as you possibly misunderstood him.

Wrong.
Accurate information.
Do little research on I-9 complaince.

A CoLB is drafted by a hosptial. A clerk in amny cases. A clerk with a private entity...A private entity does not have the right to sanction a document and make it a state document. The state must do that.

THat is why they have BC's...

you really need to open your mind....you have the right to be wrong....and you are in this case.

Do a little research.

A CoLB is not a BC....in ANY State.

Why?

Becuase the word "live" is the key....no one in some state capital is there to say the child was "live"....

No, but the doctor or the midwife will determine if the child is alive.

I posted earlier OSHA's handbook for employers that contained examples of documents that met the requirements. One of them was a Certificate of Live Birth.

Either you are lying of the auditor is stupid.

a CoLB IS acceptable...with a letter from the DoS or the DoH affirming there is a corresponding BC on file.

I dont lie....but believe who and what you want.

 

[gekaap]

LMAO You and every other lib can try to provide cover for the Usurper but it's too late.. He will have to comply with the very Constitution he swore to defend and PROVE now he's a legal US citizen with a LEGAL BC.. NOT SOME BULLSHIT WORTHLESS PIECE OF PAPER THAT ANYONE CAN OBTAIN.. GO ARIZONA~~~

You mean the very same constitution that prohibits Arizona from having such a law?

See, this post right here is why birthers are such a menace. I'm not a liberal, and I don't even like Obama as President. But you idiots are securing his second term. Instead of having viable alternative candidates coming forward, we're stuck with the likes of Sarah Palin and Donald Trump who continue to babble on about this stupidity. The next election is shaping up more and more to be a referendum on whether you support the birther bullshit or not. Birthers are driving the votes to Obama.

 

[Ravi]

Wrong.
Accurate information.
Do little research on I-9 complaince.

A CoLB is drafted by a hosptial. A clerk in amny cases. A clerk with a private entity...A private entity does not have the right to sanction a document and make it a state document. The state must do that.

THat is why they have BC's...

you really need to open your mind....you have the right to be wrong....and you are in this case.

Do a little research.

A CoLB is not a BC....in ANY State.

Why?

Becuase the word "live" is the key....no one in some state capital is there to say the child was "live"....

No, but the doctor or the midwife will determine if the child is alive.

I posted earlier OSHA's handbook for employers that contained examples of documents that met the requirements. One of them was a Certificate of Live Birth.

Either you are lying of the auditor is stupid.

a CoLB IS acceptable...with a letter from the DoS or the DoH affirming there is a corresponding BC on file.

I dont lie....but believe who and what you want.

No letter is needed. No letter is mentioned in the handbook.

Okay, you don't lie, you're just stupid.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

LMAO You and every other lib can try to provide cover for the Usurper but it's too late.. He will have to comply with the very Constitution he swore to defend and PROVE now he's a legal US citizen with a LEGAL BC.. NOT SOME BULLSHIT WORTHLESS PIECE OF PAPER THAT ANYONE CAN OBTAIN.. GO ARIZONA~~~

You mean the very same constitution that prohibits Arizona from having such a law?

See, this post right here is why birthers are such a menace. I'm not a liberal, and I don't even like Obama as President. But you idiots are securing his second term. Instead of having viable alternative candidates coming forward, we're stuck with the likes of Sarah Palin and Donald Trump who continue to babble on about this stupidity. The next election is shaping up more and more to be a referendum on whether you support the birther bullshit or not. Birthers are driving the votes to Obama.

You sound as stoopid as your picture looks. WTG.

 

[Jarhead]

Best way to put it...

And dont take this word for word,,,it is an analogy..

A CoLB is the equivaqlent of an appication for a BC.

It CAN be rejected by the state for a variety of reasons including, but not limited to clerical errors..

You can have a CoLB without a BC....you can not have a BC without a CoLB.

Hospitals submit the CoLB....hopsitals are not authorized to draft State documents.

Police dpartments sometimes submit a CoLB

Midwives can submit a CoLB

OBGYN's can submit a CoLB

It attests to the birth of the child....but it is not deemed a state document until it is sanctioned by the state and the state drafts a BC in response.

You need evidence of your claims.

Why?

Whatever evidence I produce, you will spin and throw right back at me.

I dont need to conviince you...I am an employer...I have the I-9 complaince forms right here with me...and NO WHERE does it say that a dpocument drafted by a hospital is acceptable....it clearly states original or certified copy of BC issued by the state..

Now...if you want to argue who drafts the CoLB......pretty logical.....can someone in a state capital assert that the child born was born alive? Wouldnt it be logical that someone who witnesses it has to assert it? Can someone in the state capital be aware of every child born in every location? Wouldnt there need to be SOMETHING submitted to the state by SOMEONE?

Well? What do you think that would be calkled.....perhaps a "Certification of Live Birth"?

 

[Jarhead]

No, but the doctor or the midwife will determine if the child is alive.

I posted earlier OSHA's handbook for employers that contained examples of documents that met the requirements. One of them was a Certificate of Live Birth.

Either you are lying of the auditor is stupid.

a CoLB IS acceptable...with a letter from the DoS or the DoH affirming there is a corresponding BC on file.

I dont lie....but believe who and what you want.

No letter is needed. No letter is mentioned in the handbook.

Okay, you don't lie, you're just stupid.

And that is that.
Fall back on the stupid line and move on.
Sounds good to me.
Cya.

 

[gekaap]

But the CoLB originally was NOT a BC...it may become one when it is approved and sanctioned by the state....but it is not one when it is drafted.

Okay then. The "Certificate of Live Birth" that Obama has presented IS sanctioned by the state of Hawaii. The state generated it, endorsed it, and have given it the weight of prima facia evidence in court.

That being said, it is only logical that MOST states differentiate between the two...as one is drafted by a non state employee..and the other is SANCTIONED by a state employee.

No, that's not the only logical conclusion. It's also a perfectly logical possibility that most states don't differentiate between the two. In fact, saying that most states do make such a distinction is illogical until you provide evidence to that effect. You've only provided speculation.

Hawaii may do it that way.....thats fine with me....but it is logical that the DoL will not accept a CoLB without proof there is a corresponding BC or CoB...becuase some CoLB's do not have corresponding BC's...

Let's keep this about Obama, his birth certificate, and what it means. His "Certificate of Live Birth" is the kind of birth certificate that is prescribed by state law. It is endorsed by the state as being an accurate reflection of the records that the state maintains, and as being evidence in court regarding the facts of his birth.

 

[Ravi]

a CoLB IS acceptable...with a letter from the DoS or the DoH affirming there is a corresponding BC on file.

I dont lie....but believe who and what you want.

No letter is needed. No letter is mentioned in the handbook.

Okay, you don't lie, you're just stupid.

And that is that.
Fall back on the stupid line and move on.
Sounds good to me.
Cya.

Whatever you say, dimwit. I'll believe the employer guide put out by OSHA any day over a birther with an agenda.

 

[Jarhead]

It was addressed many times and we determined that you were given false information. You should report that guy for spreading false information or at the very least call him up and ask him to clarify himself as you possibly misunderstood him.

Wrong.
Accurate information.
Do little research on I-9 complaince.

A CoLB is drafted by a hosptial. A clerk in amny cases. A clerk with a private entity...A private entity does not have the right to sanction a document and make it a state document. The state must do that.

THat is why they have BC's...

you really need to open your mind....you have the right to be wrong....and you are in this case.

Do a little research.

A CoLB is not a BC....in ANY State.

Why?

Becuase the word "live" is the key....no one in some state capital is there to say the child was "live"....

No, but the doctor or the midwife will determine if the child is alive.

I posted earlier OSHA's handbook for employers that contained examples of documents that met the requirements. One of them was a Certificate of Live Birth.

Either you are lying of the auditor is stupid.

Hey...wait a minute....

And this is important....did the OSHA handbook say a Certificate of Live Birth is appropriate or a Ceritfication of live Birth?

There is a monumental difference.

One "certtifies"...the other is a state document (certificate).

I am referring to the Certification of Live Birth....that is what is drafted by the hospital...

What is in the OSHA handbook?

 

[Jarhead]

No letter is needed. No letter is mentioned in the handbook.

Okay, you don't lie, you're just stupid.

And that is that.
Fall back on the stupid line and move on.
Sounds good to me.
Cya.

Whatever you say, dimwit. I'll believe the employer guide put out by OSHA any day over a birther with an agenda.

Dimwit?
...another sign of weakness on your part.

So show me miss intelligence....what does OSHA refer to? Certification...or certificate?

 

[gekaap]

Why?

Because that's how logic works. You make a claim, you must support it with evidence, or it's not worth being accepted.

Whatever evidence I produce, you will spin and throw right back at me.

You haven't provided ANY evidence. You've offered nothing more than hearsay, speculation, and some logical fallacies.

I dont need to conviince you...I am an employer...I have the I-9 complaince forms right here with me...and NO WHERE does it say that a dpocument drafted by a hospital is acceptable....it clearly states original or certified copy of BC issued by the state..

And I'm a Republican appointed federal judge who knows way more about the law than you or the auditor you've mentioned.

Now...if you want to argue who drafts the CoLB......pretty logical.....can someone in a state capital assert that the child born was born alive? Wouldnt it be logical that someone who witnesses it has to assert it? Can someone in the state capital be aware of every child born in every location? Wouldnt there need to be SOMETHING submitted to the state by SOMEONE?

You're going off on a tangent here. It has nothing to do with the validity of Obama's birth certificate.

[/quote]Well? What do you think that would be calkled.....perhaps a "Certification of Live Birth"?[/QUOTE]

It can be called a Howdy-Doodah form for all it matters. It does not change the fact that Hawaii state law explicitly provides that the state shall issue a "Certificate of Live Birth" as a birth certificate.