If RvW Is Overturned

[Lisa558]

That was all after your initial lecture.

I gave no lecture. I gave my opinion about the sanctity of the human body, about which I feel strongly.

 

[tshrimp]

For many more, it's about the voice and the choice being taken away from the woman by this ruling. This for the sake of what is little more than a collection of cells in the view of many. This is again a minority's opinion being rammed through the throats of the majority of the country.

I hear the argument that is it just a "collection of cells". Some, not you, have even made statements that it is no different then cancer cells. I have never understood that argument. Below is this "collection of cells" at the 12 week mark. Far different then other cell clusters.

Cancer cells

 

[forkup]

Do you applaud people who get an abortion based on inconvenience?

No, I don't. If you tried to pay attention to what I was writing you would have seen that in my first reply to you I already said I don't like abortion

I can live with the fact that some states will allow abortions up to birth.

I would have a problem with that I think. With the exception of emergencies. Those by the way are called cesareans.

I don't like it, but I'm not saying that abortions should be illegal everywhere either.

I don't think it should be illegal anywhere but again opinion and all that.

What I am saying is that at the federal level there is no constitutional basis for the right to an abortion and no judge or justice should be able to create that right out of thin air

7 justices disagreed with you in the seventies nominated by both parties. I also would note that the justices currently on the bench in my opinion have been specifically selected on the conservative side to rule on this particular issue in this way.

Something that in my view is supported even by this ruling. Allito immediatly putting in a caveat in his ruling that his legal argument does not extent to contraception. Although his argumentation would, if applied consistently, certainly give the right to the States to do exactly that. When a judge in his opinion immediatly sets limits to his own argument that argument almost by definition shows basic flaws.

What I am saying is that each state can and should formulate it's own abortion laws

Wich brings me to my original question. If you can accept that their is a difference in opinion on abortion as you conceed. Why not put the decision with the people making the actual choice? Why involve anybody at all? You accept infringment of state governments in peoples choices but reject the right of the Federal government to protect peoples choices.

 

[Calypso Jones]

I'm saying that I'm not qualified. And I hope somebody is more qualified. I further say that it's possible nobody really is. In which case making it a personal choice seems the most reasonable position

the law frowns upon killing someone because it is your personal choice.

 

[forkup]

forkup

You said that not all pregnancies are the result of the parents’ neglect. In the vast, VAST majority of cases, they are. Birth control is 99% effective.

So knowing that, should the woman and/or man in a “non-abortion” state stop the…..um…..”proceedings” to insert, apply, put on, whatever (that’s assuming the woman isn’t already on something) to eliminate the possibility of an unwanted pregnancy almost completely….. INCONVENIENT though it is….or….

Should they just risk it, because to take precautions is inconvenient at the moment, knowing the woman may later have to make an inconvenient trip to a neighboring state?

Their choice.

Unintended Pregnancy | CDC

CDC Reproductive Health -Unintended pregnancy mainly results from not using contraception, or inconsistent or incorrect use of effective contraceptive methods.

www.cdc.gov

Declines in Unintended Pregnancy in the United States, 2008-2011 - PubMed

After a previous period of minimal change, the rate of unintended pregnancy in the United States declined substantially between 2008 and 2011, but unintended pregnancies remained most common among women and girls who were poor and those who were cohabiting. (Funded by the Susan Thompson Buffett...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Unwanted Pregnancy Statistics - Unwanted Pregnancy

The facts behind the topic of unwanted pregnancies are alarming. Did you know how many unwanted pregnancies occur among sexually active women?

unwantedpregnancy.com

• About 90 percent of sexually active women use some form of contraception. The 10 percent of women who do not use contraception account for approximately half of unplanned pregnancies.

It doesn't seem all that rare. 90 percent use contraception yet they were still able to produce HALF of all unwanted pregnancies.

 

[Lisa558]

Unintended Pregnancy | CDC

CDC Reproductive Health -Unintended pregnancy mainly results from not using contraception, or inconsistent or incorrect use of effective contraceptive methods.

www.cdc.gov

Declines in Unintended Pregnancy in the United States, 2008-2011 - PubMed

After a previous period of minimal change, the rate of unintended pregnancy in the United States declined substantially between 2008 and 2011, but unintended pregnancies remained most common among women and girls who were poor and those who were cohabiting. (Funded by the Susan Thompson Buffett...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Unwanted Pregnancy Statistics - Unwanted Pregnancy

The facts behind the topic of unwanted pregnancies are alarming. Did you know how many unwanted pregnancies occur among sexually active women?

unwantedpregnancy.com

• About 90 percent of sexually active women use some form of contraception. The 10 percent of women who do not use contraception account for approximately half of unplanned pregnancies.

It doesn't seem all that rare. 90 percent use contraception yet they were still able to produce HALF of all unwanted pregnancies.

That’s because the 90% of women who use contraception do not use it with 100% consistency.

 

[forkup]

the law frowns upon killing someone because it is your personal choice.

But does it apply to someone when he or she is not viable, doesn't have a name or consciousness, a developed brain, heart, lungs, and carries a certain risk to the pregnant person? This accepting that it is alive at all?

 

[forkup]

That’s because the 90% of women who use contraception do not use it with 100% consistency.

So again it is not rare. Even people who take care to be responsible still can and do get pregnant. ALL of them are now in danger of their choice getting taken away from them right?

 

[Calypso Jones]

But does it apply to someone when he or she is not viable, doesn't have a name or consciousness, a developed brain, heart, lungs, and carries a certain risk to the pregnant person? This accepting that it is alive at all?

That's why i asked you when life begins. Do you think the mother who is killing her child in her womb is a doctor or a philosopher.....why does she get to choose.

If you are killing something then it was alive.

WHO do you consider an authority to make the determination of when life begins. The bible states that the child in the womb is alive, but i guess that is not authority enough. So who is? If there is no authority to make that determination and the 'thing' in the womb is a living thing and killing it is killing something that was alive....that would develop into a full fledged adult...then Roe V Wade is illegal, unethical and immoral.

 

[forkup]

I hear the argument that is it just a "collection of cells". Some, not you, have even made statements that it is no different then cancer cells. I have never understood that argument. Below is this "collection of cells" at the 12 week mark. Far different then other cell clusters.

View attachment 639997

Cancer cells
View attachment 639998

Why are you countering an argument I never made?

 

[Lisa558]

So again it is not rare. Even people who take care to be responsible still can and do get pregnant. ALL of them are now in danger of their choice getting taken away from them right?

None of them are in danger. They ALL will still have a choice to kill the fetus. They might just have to go to a neighboring state If they live in a state that doesn’t permit it.

 

[Calypso Jones]

When one is killing their unborn out of convenience or as a method of birth control...being able to do that locally is of great convenience.

 

[Lisa558]

When one is killing their unborn out of convenience or as a method of birth control...being able to do that locally is of great convenience.

OK….so it might not be convenient for some. Knowing that, maybe they’ll be more consistent with birth control.

 

[initforme]

For the good of the nation we need a drop in pregnancies and this should help. A big drop in pregnancies equates to alot less unwanted pregnancies. Win win win all the way around. You can all agree with this.

 

[forkup]

That's why i asked you when life begins. Do you think the mother who is killing her child in her womb is a doctor or a philosopher.....why does she get to choose.

If you are killing something then it was alive.

WHO do you consider an authority to make the determination of when life begins.

I don't know if there are any. I just know that having an unwanted child has adverse effects on both child and parent. At the same time, I appreciate that even potential life is precious. I don't like abortions, yet I can see that having one is often the most rational and sensible personal choice.

Abortions should be exceedingly rare. This requires reliable and affordable contraception, awareness programs, decent parenting, and luck. Most of it costs money and will certainly not be foolproof.

So unless and until you do actually get a handle on unwanted pregnancies and all the if, ands, or buts, having the people actually dealing with it, making the choice seems the most reasonable option.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Some of us this saw this coming years ago. The only reason the incompetent Kavanaugh and the handmaden cultist Barrett were even chosen was to overturn roe v wade.

 

[Calypso Jones]

abortions should be exceedingly rare....that's what the left said...but they are commonplace.. and moreso now Some women have multiple ones as a method of birth control...so that argument doesn't hold water.

But this is still murder...because it is killing a living being.. WHO has the authority to tell us if you don't want God's word, when life begins?

The left ignores 'at conception'. They say, when the child can breathe on its own...or when the child takes its first breath. You still have to feed it so it really isn't 'living on its own'. Peter Singer....Professor, left wing, said that parents/mother should have the option of killing that child up to 30 days to three months after birth...He said that more than a decade ago. Now some (Ralph Northam) agree..and some even push for a year after birth....So when does life begin? When that child becomes self aware???/ that could take up to five years. When it can speak in sentences? When it can read?

 

[rightnow909]

Will the left continue believing in "settled law", or will they work to eventually overturn settled law because they no longer believe in the concept?

they don't belive in anything except self... freedom for them to do any perverse thing that crosses their minds and NO freedom for those who do not agree w/ that...

sick puppies...

 

[forkup]

None of them are in danger. They ALL will still have a choice to kill the fetus. They might just have to go to a neighboring state If they live in a state that doesn’t permit it.

Yes because we all know that everybody in the US can just up and leave for a few days to have an abortion.

If you are poor. Guess what, you won't. You can't leave your job, you can't afford the bus fare or whatever. Exactly the people who are both statistically most likely to get pregnant and are least capable of taking care of that offspring. Mobility declines the poorer you get.

 

[Calypso Jones]

A biologist.... Would you take a biologist's word as authority on when life begins??