If Social Security Had Been In Private Accounts The Stock Market Drop Could Have Been A Disaster

[bripat9643]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

We're already mandated to put in 14% of our salaries to the world's biggest Ponzi scheme.

The moron above pulls "facts" out of his ass.....Maximum contribution for SS is 6.2%.....and that is ONLY up to the first $117K.

(I am sure that right wing morons are pulling state, county and city taxes into the mix because.....well, because they're morons.)

The so-called "employer contribution" is another 6.2%. Only numskulls like you believe that doesn't come out of your salary.

 

[Andylusion]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

We're already mandated to put in 14% of our salaries to the world's biggest Ponzi scheme.

The moron above pulls "facts" out of his ass.....Maximum contribution for SS is 6.2%.....and that is ONLY up to the first $117K.

(I am sure that right wing morons are pulling state, county and city taxes into the mix because.....well, because they're morons.)

It is 6.2% on you and the employer. The employer pays you LESS, so that they can pay that tax. I've been in business for the last 20 years. When the employer decides how much he will pay someone, or whether or not to give someone a raise.... they consider the "Total cost of employment".

That's why if you look around the world, in places where the employer pays higher taxes on employees... the wages are lower.

If the company has $45,000 for a given job... how much do you get paid? $30,000.

If the company has $30,000 for a given job... how much do you get paid? $20,000.

The employer side tax, comes out of your wages... you just don't see it. You are paying the entire tax. You pay the 6.2% out of your check, and you pay the 6.2% out of the employers cost, in lower wages.

Right now... you are paying 12.4% of your wages to Social Security. Just a fact.

 

[David_42]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

We're already mandated to put in 14% of our salaries to the world's biggest Ponzi scheme.

The moron above pulls "facts" out of his ass.....Maximum contribution for SS is 6.2%.....and that is ONLY up to the first $117K.

(I am sure that right wing morons are pulling state, county and city taxes into the mix because.....well, because they're morons.)

The so-called "employer contribution" is another 6.2%. Only numskulls like you believe that doesn't come out of your salary.

I'm fine with it coming out of my salary, my grandparents lived a long and enjoyable life thanks to social security.

 

[bripat9643]

We can't expect people to know how to do this, hell, con artists are everywhere..

Why not? It's extremely simple. And if you need guidance, most investment firms will have resources to help educate you. You can start an account with as little as $100.

It requires finding someone trusted to help you manage knowing what's happening in the market.. I'm fine with people doing it, but we need to keep SS.

The whole point of this discussion is getting rid of SS. People can already invest them money they have leftover after the government rips them off to fund its ponzi scheme.

 

[Andylusion]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

From a NYT article regarding Chile's private pension plan.......

Many young people, who should be enrolling in the system early to accrue maximum benefit, are staying out or paying in very little. Some cannot afford to contribute beyond the obligatory minimum payment, which is 10 percent of wages, while others are either self-employed or have been hired by companies as low-paid independent contract workers and thus do not have to contribute at all.
"The bottom line is that this system does not work with this labor market," said Andras Uthoff, an economist who is director of the social development division of the UN Economic Commission for Latin America here. If current trends continue, he added, "only a small percentage of people are going to be able to finance meaningful pensions. What happens then to the rest?"
As a result of such doubts, attacking the pension system and especially the perceived excesses of the funds has become a surefire source of votes. One of the big winners in the first round of the election last month, for example, was Guido Girardi, a senator-elect and Bachelet supporter who has taken upon himself the role of scourge of the private management funds.
"I am going to do away with these thieves in jackets and ties," Girardi said. "We are going to defend the citizenry from these funds that rob people of their pensions."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/world/americas/10iht-chile.html?_r=0

Here's the problem...... right now Chili has a state funded pension safety net. If someone does not have enough money in retirement, so that they run out of money.... the state picks up with a minimum monthly pension.

That system is no different in any way, than our current system. That's Social Security right there.

The key difference is, so few people run out of retirement, that the state has almost no pension payouts at all.

The system is working so well, that no one is using the State funded system.

So all that crap you just pasted on here, without fact checking it... doesn't matter. It's wrong. Sorry, the story is wrong.

Read that damn article again....or ask a grown-up to explain it to you.
(I have a hard time dealing with idiots.)

I did. It's wrong. Just because you are not mature enough to consider information outside of the article, doesn't mean I didn't read it.

 

[David_42]

Yes, Chile's Private Pension Model Works, Big Time

"Pensions: In Chile, a major study shows the nation's private retirement accounts provide workers pensions worth 87% of their salaries, 73% of that from profits on savings. So much for the canard about the perils of markets."

Chile: using free enterprise. If only we were as open to free enterprise as Chile

If Only

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

We're already mandated to put in 14% of our salaries to the world's biggest Ponzi scheme.

The moron above pulls "facts" out of his ass.....Maximum contribution for SS is 6.2%.....and that is ONLY up to the first $117K.

(I am sure that right wing morons are pulling state, county and city taxes into the mix because.....well, because they're morons.)

It is 6.2% on you and the employer. The employer pays you LESS, so that they can pay that tax. I've been in business for the last 20 years. When the employer decides how much he will pay someone, or whether or not to give someone a raise.... they consider the "Total cost of employment".

That's why if you look around the world, in places where the employer pays higher taxes on employees... the wages are lower.

If the company has $45,000 for a given job... how much do you get paid? $30,000.

If the company has $30,000 for a given job... how much do you get paid? $20,000.

The employer side tax, comes out of your wages... you just don't see it. You are paying the entire tax. You pay the 6.2% out of your check, and you pay the 6.2% out of the employers cost, in lower wages.

Right now... you are paying 12.4% of your wages to Social Security. Just a fact.

You don't take into account variation in business practices in regards to wage payouts.

 

[bripat9643]

So where does the United States rank in your data?

Yeah, that's right, you can't tell us.

What the fuck? I sent you the data, look at it, moron. I'm not going to spoon feed you, you'll claim its propaganda.

If you can't post a graph like the one above, then go fuck yourself. You can't even tell us what position the U.S. is in based on your data. The data in my graph is sufficiently recent enough for the purpose of this discussion, and it shows your claim is dead wrong.

What the?.. I'm sending you up to date data from one of the most relevant organizations, Wikipedia compiles a list from this data if you want it:

List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you don't have something in easily digestible form, then quit wasting our time.

You still haven't told us what the ranking of the U.S. is based on your data. That's because it would take half a day to produce that information.

Produce something digestible or go fuck yourself.

It's right on the page idiot.

Post a link to it.

 

[David_42]

We can't expect people to know how to do this, hell, con artists are everywhere..

Why not? It's extremely simple. And if you need guidance, most investment firms will have resources to help educate you. You can start an account with as little as $100.

It requires finding someone trusted to help you manage knowing what's happening in the market.. I'm fine with people doing it, but we need to keep SS.

The whole point of this discussion is getting rid of SS. People can already invest them money they have leftover after the government rips them off to fund its ponzi scheme.

Getting rid of SS is a disastrous idea, it's not a Ponzi scheme when the majority of Americans support it and millions rely on it.

 

[Andylusion]

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

We're already mandated to put in 14% of our salaries to the world's biggest Ponzi scheme.

The moron above pulls "facts" out of his ass.....Maximum contribution for SS is 6.2%.....and that is ONLY up to the first $117K.

(I am sure that right wing morons are pulling state, county and city taxes into the mix because.....well, because they're morons.)

The so-called "employer contribution" is another 6.2%. Only numskulls like you believe that doesn't come out of your salary.

I'm fine with it coming out of my salary, my grandparents lived a long and enjoyable life thanks to social security.

But you won't. The money is running out. Social Security, is going broke. The government is in debt larger than the GDP of the entire country.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Social Security is running out.

You grandparents lived great and wonderful lives on other people's money. That's fine. But that's not going to last forever, just like Greece proves. Get over it.

 

[David_42]

What the fuck? I sent you the data, look at it, moron. I'm not going to spoon feed you, you'll claim its propaganda.

If you can't post a graph like the one above, then go fuck yourself. You can't even tell us what position the U.S. is in based on your data. The data in my graph is sufficiently recent enough for the purpose of this discussion, and it shows your claim is dead wrong.

What the?.. I'm sending you up to date data from one of the most relevant organizations, Wikipedia compiles a list from this data if you want it:

List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you don't have something in easily digestible form, then quit wasting our time.

You still haven't told us what the ranking of the U.S. is based on your data. That's because it would take half a day to produce that information.

Produce something digestible or go fuck yourself.

It's right on the page idiot.

Post a link to it.

That is the fucking link. It's a tiny bit down the page.

 

[Andylusion]

We can't expect people to know how to do this, hell, con artists are everywhere..

Why not? It's extremely simple. And if you need guidance, most investment firms will have resources to help educate you. You can start an account with as little as $100.

It requires finding someone trusted to help you manage knowing what's happening in the market.. I'm fine with people doing it, but we need to keep SS.

The whole point of this discussion is getting rid of SS. People can already invest them money they have leftover after the government rips them off to fund its ponzi scheme.

Getting rid of SS is a disastrous idea, it's not a Ponzi scheme when the majority of Americans support it and millions rely on it.

LOL!

"It's not what it is.... if everyone likes it"......

That was dumbest thing posted on here yet. I don't give a crap if everyone on the planet says the moon is made of cheese, it's not, and SS is a ponzi scheme. Your opinion poll, doesn't change reality.

You sound like those Greek idiots. We had a referendum.... so you can't demand austerity to loan us money!.... oh wait.... you can..... because reality isn't determined by a vote.

Idiots.....

 

[SwimExpert]

It requires finding someone trusted to help you manage knowing what's happening in the market.

So? Open an account with an established, reputable broker. There are several of them out there. Personally, I do business with T. Rowe Price. Always been very easy, and they've always been very helpful.

 

[bripat9643]

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

We're already mandated to put in 14% of our salaries to the world's biggest Ponzi scheme.

The moron above pulls "facts" out of his ass.....Maximum contribution for SS is 6.2%.....and that is ONLY up to the first $117K.

(I am sure that right wing morons are pulling state, county and city taxes into the mix because.....well, because they're morons.)

It is 6.2% on you and the employer. The employer pays you LESS, so that they can pay that tax. I've been in business for the last 20 years. When the employer decides how much he will pay someone, or whether or not to give someone a raise.... they consider the "Total cost of employment".

That's why if you look around the world, in places where the employer pays higher taxes on employees... the wages are lower.

If the company has $45,000 for a given job... how much do you get paid? $30,000.

If the company has $30,000 for a given job... how much do you get paid? $20,000.

The employer side tax, comes out of your wages... you just don't see it. You are paying the entire tax. You pay the 6.2% out of your check, and you pay the 6.2% out of the employers cost, in lower wages.

Right now... you are paying 12.4% of your wages to Social Security. Just a fact.

You don't take into account variation in business practices in regards to wage payouts.

No company pays more than what they believe the revenue your total cost of employment will generate. Doing otherwise is economic suicide.

 

[David_42]

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

We're already mandated to put in 14% of our salaries to the world's biggest Ponzi scheme.

The moron above pulls "facts" out of his ass.....Maximum contribution for SS is 6.2%.....and that is ONLY up to the first $117K.

(I am sure that right wing morons are pulling state, county and city taxes into the mix because.....well, because they're morons.)

The so-called "employer contribution" is another 6.2%. Only numskulls like you believe that doesn't come out of your salary.

I'm fine with it coming out of my salary, my grandparents lived a long and enjoyable life thanks to social security.

But you won't. The money is running out. Social Security, is going broke. The government is in debt larger than the GDP of the entire country.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Social Security is running out.

You grandparents lived great and wonderful lives on other people's money. That's fine. But that's not going to last forever, just like Greece proves. Get over it.

Pulling the Winston Churchill shit, eh? It could be saved, we have to have a safety net for the elderly, mainly due to poverty. Yes, we can thank the tax cuts and the wars started by bush/Reagan tripling the debt.. We're a debt based country now, like many other countries in the world. Oh, tell me more about every single country on earth using socialist policies. On other people's money? They paid into it, and the majority of society is ok with social security, sounds like your a butthurt dick. If you cite Greece one more time, I might break down. Greece is one country, that failed due to tax evasion (It was a cultural thing, other countries with high taxes still pay them, we have Americans dodging low ass taxes now, it's not a Greece problem) I could claim capitalism fails due to 2008 but that's a dishonest lie because capitalism does work, and it works well, when regulated and mixed with socialistic policies, which is what every country on earth does.

 

[David_42]

It requires finding someone trusted to help you manage knowing what's happening in the market.

So? Open an account with an established, reputable broker. There are several of them out there. Personally, I do business with T. Rowe Price. Always been very easy, and they've always been very helpful.

Yes, and we can expect millions of seniors to not be ripped off..

 

[SwimExpert]

it's not a Ponzi scheme when the majority of Americans support it and millions rely on it.

 

[SwimExpert]

Yes, and we can expect millions of seniors to not be ripped off..

Why would you expect that?

 

[David_42]

it's not a Ponzi scheme when the majority of Americans support it and millions rely on it.

Truth hurts.

 

[David_42]

Yes, and we can expect millions of seniors to not be ripped off..

Why would you expect that?

You want millions of seniors to trust and rely on a select few trusted individuals and what about the ones who choose wrong? Can't afford to invest earlier in life?

 

[Andylusion]

Wait for Dad2three to be all over you with a bunch of bullshit propaganda claiming the Chilean system is worse than Social Security.

I wonder if right wingers on here would be happy with (based on the Chilean pension plan) they were MANDATED by the government to put in TEN PERCENT of their salary......LOL

We're already mandated to put in 14% of our salaries to the world's biggest Ponzi scheme.

The moron above pulls "facts" out of his ass.....Maximum contribution for SS is 6.2%.....and that is ONLY up to the first $117K.

(I am sure that right wing morons are pulling state, county and city taxes into the mix because.....well, because they're morons.)

It is 6.2% on you and the employer. The employer pays you LESS, so that they can pay that tax. I've been in business for the last 20 years. When the employer decides how much he will pay someone, or whether or not to give someone a raise.... they consider the "Total cost of employment".

That's why if you look around the world, in places where the employer pays higher taxes on employees... the wages are lower.

If the company has $45,000 for a given job... how much do you get paid? $30,000.

If the company has $30,000 for a given job... how much do you get paid? $20,000.

The employer side tax, comes out of your wages... you just don't see it. You are paying the entire tax. You pay the 6.2% out of your check, and you pay the 6.2% out of the employers cost, in lower wages.

Right now... you are paying 12.4% of your wages to Social Security. Just a fact.

You don't take into account variation in business practices in regards to wage payouts.

Which still doesn't change the fact that your wagers are lower, to pay for those Social Security taxes.

I've worked with employers on this, and that is exactly how they determine wages and raises. They have a set number that they expect to pay out for a given job. This is how much I can pay for this job.

Then they work backward from there, to determine wages. If that number is $32,000, then they take out taxes, fees, unemployment compensation, benefits, vacation cost, the cost of 401K if they have it, and the cost of health care to cover them. Whatever money amount is left, that's how they determine what your wage is. Or if you can get a raise. Then you end up with $22,000 a year.

You are paying for all of your benefits, and all your taxes, out of lower wages. I promise you, that's how it works. I've worked with business owners for 20 years.