If Ted Cruz Was Born in Canada, He Cannot Be President: PERIOD

[IlarMeilyr]

Juan McInsane was born in Panama.
Natural-born-citizen clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On a military base which is the equivalent of US soil. But thanks for providing that source because it outlines the dilemma and concern:

Natural Born Citizen Clause

Status as a natural-born citizen of the United States is one of the eligibility requirements established in the United States Constitution for election to the office of President or Vice President. This requirement was intended to protect the nation from foreign influence.

The U.S. Constitution uses but does not define the phrase "natural born Citizen", and various opinions have been offered over time regarding its precise meaning. The consensus of early 21st-century constitutional scholars, together with relevant case law, is that natural-born citizens include, subject to exceptions, those born in the United States. For those born elsewhere, there is an emerging consensus that they are also natural born citizens provided they meet the legal requirements for U.S. citizenship "at the moment of birth", but the matter remains unsettled.

A military base is not the equivalent of US soil. An embassy is. A military base is foreign soil. If a child is born to say, Norweigan parents on a US military base....the kid isn't American. She's Norwegian. The only way to acquire US citizenship on a US military base is to have US citizen parents capable of passing that citizenship onto you.

I was born on a military base overseas to two active duty US citizen parents. I've been over the law on this many times. My citizenship is by blood. Not by soil.

Correct.

Conversely, a person born in the United States where neither of his parents are US citizens is likewise a natural born citizen, and eligible to be president.

Your "anchor baby" thesis is conjecture and may prove to be false. One is an American at birth NOT NECESSARILY on the basis of WHERE one is born but on the basis of BLOOD.

That anchor baby shit deserves much closer scrutiny. A Mexican mama to be strains to get to America. Maybe the papa to be is with her. Upon illegally crossing the border, they parents are still MEXICANS with absolutely no allegiance to the country (the USA) whose law they broke as their very first act here. Thus, the child that is then born here owes no allegiance to the United States, either. To the extent that THAT is the test for who is a citizen, the anchor baby is a Mexican at birth, not an American.

 

[WheelieAddict]

That Canadian guy who's father was friends with Fidel Castro?

^ dim wit dopey motherfucker ALMOST formulated a sentence in that post.

Says the dupe that would vote for Cruz.

^ Another ALMOST sentence. WheelieStupid, you are a fucking mess.

And yes. I certainly WOULD vote for Cruz. YOU, by contrast, are such a brainless dildo, YOU would vote for Shrillary Rotten Clinton OR that senile Socialist schmuck.

LoL tries to tell me who I vote for.

I'm still not as stupid as you who wants to vote for the communist Canadian.

Know who you are voting for before you call me a mess.

 

[Skylar]

...Wong Kim Ark...

He was born here, Teddy in Canada. President Wong is clear, Rafael Cruz not so much.

True. But when discussing the history of citizenship, they went into elaborate lengths about British Common Law and allegiance following place of birth. With natural born status afforded to those born within the realm of the King, even if both their parents were aliens.

The only other time the USSC discussed the topic of 'natural born' that I'm aware of would be Minor v. Happersett. In which they recognized that 'there have been doubts' that those born abroad were natural born citizens.

And of course, Wong Kim Ark was like 1 of 5 sources I cited in the post you drew the case name from.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

...Wong Kim Ark...

He was born here, Teddy in Canada. President Wong is clear, Rafael Cruz not so much.

Once again, Ted's MOM was a U.S. citizen so -- as a direct consequence -- so was Ted AT birth: Natural born citizen. PaintYourBrain, the lead based paint is wrecking you.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

...Wong Kim Ark...

He was born here, Teddy in Canada. President Wong is clear, Rafael Cruz not so much.

Once again, Ted's MOM was a U.S. citizen so -- as a direct consequence -- so was Ted AT birth: Natural born citizen. PaintYourBrain, the lead based paint is wrecking you.

That has never been ruled on. He's a citizen but is he a natural born citizen? Since the SC has never ruled, no one knows.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

That Canadian guy who's father was friends with Fidel Castro?

^ dim wit dopey motherfucker ALMOST formulated a sentence in that post.

Says the dupe that would vote for Cruz.

^ Another ALMOST sentence. WheelieStupid, you are a fucking mess.

And yes. I certainly WOULD vote for Cruz. YOU, by contrast, are such a brainless dildo, YOU would vote for Shrillary Rotten Clinton OR that senile Socialist schmuck.

LoL tries to tell me who I vote for. [<--- ANOTHER almost sentence. WhellieDouche is amazingly consistent in his ignorance!]

I'm still not as stupid as you who wants to vote for the communist Canadian. [<--- No. I'm not the stupid one. YOU Are. Thus you are far far dumber. You stupid twat. Ted is NOT even remotely a Communist.]

Know who you are voting for before you call me a mess. [<--- I DO know who I plan on voting for. YOU are still a fucking mess, and a dildo. ]

 

[PaintMyHouse]

...Wong Kim Ark...

He was born here, Teddy in Canada. President Wong is clear, Rafael Cruz not so much.

True. But when discussing the history of citizenship, they went into elaborate lengths about British Common Law and allegiance following place of birth. With natural born status afforded to those born within the realm of the King, even if both their parents were aliens.

The only other time the USSC discussed the topic of 'natural born' that I'm aware of would be Minor v. Happersett. In which they recognized that 'there have been doubts' that those born abroad were natural born citizens.

And of course, Wong Kim Ark was like 1 of 5 sources I cited in the post you drew the case name from.

If we follow BCL, and we did, Rafael Cruz is Canadian, born on their soil, not ours...

 

[Skylar]

Juan McInsane was born in Panama.
Natural-born-citizen clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On a military base which is the equivalent of US soil. But thanks for providing that source because it outlines the dilemma and concern:

Natural Born Citizen Clause

Status as a natural-born citizen of the United States is one of the eligibility requirements established in the United States Constitution for election to the office of President or Vice President. This requirement was intended to protect the nation from foreign influence.

The U.S. Constitution uses but does not define the phrase "natural born Citizen", and various opinions have been offered over time regarding its precise meaning. The consensus of early 21st-century constitutional scholars, together with relevant case law, is that natural-born citizens include, subject to exceptions, those born in the United States. For those born elsewhere, there is an emerging consensus that they are also natural born citizens provided they meet the legal requirements for U.S. citizenship "at the moment of birth", but the matter remains unsettled.

A military base is not the equivalent of US soil. An embassy is. A military base is foreign soil. If a child is born to say, Norweigan parents on a US military base....the kid isn't American. She's Norwegian. The only way to acquire US citizenship on a US military base is to have US citizen parents capable of passing that citizenship onto you.

I was born on a military base overseas to two active duty US citizen parents. I've been over the law on this many times. My citizenship is by blood. Not by soil.

Correct.

Conversely, a person born in the United States where neither of his parents are US citizens is likewise a natural born citizen, and eligible to be president.

Your "anchor baby" thesis is conjecture and may prove to be false. One is an American at birth NOT NECESSARILY on the basis of WHERE one is born but on the basis of BLOOD.

That anchor baby shit deserves much closer scrutiny. A Mexican mama to be strains to get to America. Maybe the papa to be is with her. Upon illegally crossing the border, they parents are still MEXICANS with absolutely no allegiance to the country (the USA) whose law they broke as their very first act here. Thus, the child that is then born here owes no allegiance to the United States, either. To the extent that THAT is the test for who is a citizen, the anchor baby is a Mexican at birth, not an American.

You're going to have a very hard time with that argument. As the 14th amendment cites being under the jurisdiction of the US and within the US. With Madison himself recognizing that allegience follows place of birth.

The court has essentially unanimously agreed that children born to illegal immigrants the US are within the jurisdiction of the US.

Leaving you no place to go regarding the wording of the 14th amendment or our legal tradition.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

...Wong Kim Ark...

He was born here, Teddy in Canada. President Wong is clear, Rafael Cruz not so much.

Once again, Ted's MOM was a U.S. citizen so -- as a direct consequence -- so was Ted AT birth: Natural born citizen. PaintYourBrain, the lead based paint is wrecking you.

That has never been ruled on. He's a citizen but is he a natural born citizen? Since the SC has never ruled, no one knows.

Poor pathetic hideously ignorant stupid you.

I don't require some group of nine men (and women) in dresses to tell me.

I already know that when ASKED to pass judgment (in the numerous "birther" cases brought against President Obumbler), the Courts were quite consistent and uniform in tossing out those cases on various grounds including lack of standing.

There isn't going to be any court decision THIS time, either. And none is needed.

Cruz was born of an American mother. Game. Set. Match. You lose. And you remain a fucking ignorant and dopey twat, to boot.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

...Wong Kim Ark...

He was born here, Teddy in Canada. President Wong is clear, Rafael Cruz not so much.

Once again, Ted's MOM was a U.S. citizen so -- as a direct consequence -- so was Ted AT birth: Natural born citizen. PaintYourBrain, the lead based paint is wrecking you.

That has never been ruled on. He's a citizen but is he a natural born citizen? Since the SC has never ruled, no one knows.

Poor pathetic hideously ignorant stupid you.

I don't require some group of nine men (and women) in dresses to tell me.

I already know that when ASKED to pass judgment (in the numerous "birther" cases brought against President Obumbler), the Courts were quite consistent and uniform in tossing out those cases on various grounds including lack of standing.

There isn't going to be any court decision THIS time, either. And none is needed.

Cruz was born of an American mother. Game. Set. Match. You lose. And you remain a fucking ignorant and dopey twat, to boot.

In a country that wasn't even sure on John McCain, Rafael Canada Cruz is still a roll of the dice...

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Juan McInsane was born in Panama.
Natural-born-citizen clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On a military base which is the equivalent of US soil. But thanks for providing that source because it outlines the dilemma and concern:

Natural Born Citizen Clause

Status as a natural-born citizen of the United States is one of the eligibility requirements established in the United States Constitution for election to the office of President or Vice President. This requirement was intended to protect the nation from foreign influence.

The U.S. Constitution uses but does not define the phrase "natural born Citizen", and various opinions have been offered over time regarding its precise meaning. The consensus of early 21st-century constitutional scholars, together with relevant case law, is that natural-born citizens include, subject to exceptions, those born in the United States. For those born elsewhere, there is an emerging consensus that they are also natural born citizens provided they meet the legal requirements for U.S. citizenship "at the moment of birth", but the matter remains unsettled.

A military base is not the equivalent of US soil. An embassy is. A military base is foreign soil. If a child is born to say, Norweigan parents on a US military base....the kid isn't American. She's Norwegian. The only way to acquire US citizenship on a US military base is to have US citizen parents capable of passing that citizenship onto you.

I was born on a military base overseas to two active duty US citizen parents. I've been over the law on this many times. My citizenship is by blood. Not by soil.

Correct.

Conversely, a person born in the United States where neither of his parents are US citizens is likewise a natural born citizen, and eligible to be president.

Your "anchor baby" thesis is conjecture and may prove to be false. One is an American at birth NOT NECESSARILY on the basis of WHERE one is born but on the basis of BLOOD.

That anchor baby shit deserves much closer scrutiny. A Mexican mama to be strains to get to America. Maybe the papa to be is with her. Upon illegally crossing the border, they parents are still MEXICANS with absolutely no allegiance to the country (the USA) whose law they broke as their very first act here. Thus, the child that is then born here owes no allegiance to the United States, either. To the extent that THAT is the test for who is a citizen, the anchor baby is a Mexican at birth, not an American.

You're going to have a very hard time with that argument. As the 14th amendment cites being under the jurisdiction of the US and within the US. With Madison himself recognizing that allegience follows place of birth.

The court has essentially unanimously agreed that children born to illegal immigrants the US are within the jurisdiction of the US.

Leaving you no place to go regarding the wording of the 14th amendment or our legal tradition.

Nope.

Since it was inevitable that the Constitution would never be able to define all the terms it used, it was understood that CONGRESS would periodically have to step up and define some of those things via legislation.

Congress did so.

Sen. Cruz was a U.S. citizen at birth. And the proof is right at hand. He did not apply for -- nor did he EVER need to apply for -- "naturalization." A U.S. citizen at birth doesn't have to ASK to become a U.S. citizen.

 

[Skylar]

...Wong Kim Ark...

He was born here, Teddy in Canada. President Wong is clear, Rafael Cruz not so much.

Once again, Ted's MOM was a U.S. citizen so -- as a direct consequence -- so was Ted AT birth: Natural born citizen. PaintYourBrain, the lead based paint is wrecking you.

Depends on if you're using the 'originalist' interpretation of the constitution or the 'living document' interpretation.

If you're an originalist (which Cruz is), then Cruz may have some problems. As Madison made it clear that allegiance follows place of birth in the US. The Naturalization Act of 1790 extended citizenship to children born outside the US to US parents by act of congress. AFTER the Constitution had been ratified. And the State Department makes it clear that citizenship by blood is not embodied in the constitution, but instead citizenship extended by congressional statute.

All of which contradicts the notion that citizenship by blood confers natural born status. If we're using Cruz's standard.

If we're going 'Living Document', which Cruz opposes, then Cruz is fine.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

...Wong Kim Ark...

He was born here, Teddy in Canada. President Wong is clear, Rafael Cruz not so much.

Once again, Ted's MOM was a U.S. citizen so -- as a direct consequence -- so was Ted AT birth: Natural born citizen. PaintYourBrain, the lead based paint is wrecking you.

That has never been ruled on. He's a citizen but is he a natural born citizen? Since the SC has never ruled, no one knows.

Poor pathetic hideously ignorant stupid you.

I don't require some group of nine men (and women) in dresses to tell me.

I already know that when ASKED to pass judgment (in the numerous "birther" cases brought against President Obumbler), the Courts were quite consistent and uniform in tossing out those cases on various grounds including lack of standing.

There isn't going to be any court decision THIS time, either. And none is needed.

Cruz was born of an American mother. Game. Set. Match. You lose. And you remain a fucking ignorant and dopey twat, to boot.

In a country that wasn't even sure on John McCain, Rafael Canada Cruz is still a roll of the dice...

The country was sure of McCain. Only dopes like you express doubts.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

...Wong Kim Ark...

He was born here, Teddy in Canada. President Wong is clear, Rafael Cruz not so much.

Once again, Ted's MOM was a U.S. citizen so -- as a direct consequence -- so was Ted AT birth: Natural born citizen. PaintYourBrain, the lead based paint is wrecking you.

Depends on if you're using the 'originalist' interpretation of the constitution or the 'living document' interpretation.

If you're an originalist (which Cruz is), then Cruz may have some problems. As Madison made it clear that allegiance follows place of birth in the US. The Naturalization Act of 1790 extended citizenship to children born outside the US to US parents by act of congress. AFTER the Constitution had been ratified. And the State Department makes it clear that citizenship by blood is not embodied in the constitution, but instead citizenship extended by congressional statute.

All of which contradicts the notion that citizenship by blood confers natural born status. If we're using Cruz's standard.

If we're going 'Living Document', which Cruz opposes, then Cruz is fine.

Flatly wrong.

No "living document" crap necessary. Your claim is simply a false argument.

Congress DEFINED what the Constitution did not define. And it did so on the basis of what was then recognized, generally, as the law (i.e., essentially common law and precedent).

 

[IlarMeilyr]

How so, would it be okay for the child of an American citizen who was born and raised abroad (in an enemy country, for example) to migrate to the US and become a US citizen, and then gain access to White House? I'm not saying Ted Cruz is that person, but there is a reason why the Founding Fathers wanted a person to be born and raised on our soil. The danger is much less. Be careful what you ask for.

I can see you failed your civics class in high school. Please, please, please read the Constitution! All of that is covered!

A foreign born naturalized citizen can be US president? Pretty sure the Constitution doesn't specifically say that. And that's why Cruz' own Harvard law professor and many others like him agree with me. Best way to handle this is for the Supreme Court to rule on it and get it over with once and for all.

Who says that Cruz was naturalized? Per our law, he was a citizen at birth. With the exception of Puerto Ricans, there is no 'naturalized at birth'. There's only citizen at birth and naturalized (citizen after birth).

Cruz was indeed foreign born. But he's not a naturalized citizen.

correct. Mr. Cruz was a U.S. citizen AT birth. NOT naturalized. A Natural BORN U.S. citizen.

There is no genuine question about it.

Actually there is, because he was born to an American but outside of American jurisdiction. Is that Natural Born, yes or no? The SC has yet to rule.

An American President natural born, in Canada? Houston, we have a problem...

Nope. No problem. Not even a valid HINT of a problem. Only a bogus CLAIM of a problem from a self-interested highly ignorant partisan douche. That's you.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I can see you failed your civics class in high school. Please, please, please read the Constitution! All of that is covered!

A foreign born naturalized citizen can be US president? Pretty sure the Constitution doesn't specifically say that. And that's why Cruz' own Harvard law professor and many others like him agree with me. Best way to handle this is for the Supreme Court to rule on it and get it over with once and for all.

Who says that Cruz was naturalized? Per our law, he was a citizen at birth. With the exception of Puerto Ricans, there is no 'naturalized at birth'. There's only citizen at birth and naturalized (citizen after birth).

Cruz was indeed foreign born. But he's not a naturalized citizen.

correct. Mr. Cruz was a U.S. citizen AT birth. NOT naturalized. A Natural BORN U.S. citizen.

There is no genuine question about it.

Actually there is, because he was born to an American but outside of American jurisdiction. Is that Natural Born, yes or no? The SC has yet to rule.

An American President natural born, in Canada? Houston, we have a problem...

Nope. No problem. Not even a valid HINT of a problem. Only a bogus CLAIM of a problem from a self-interested highly ignorant partisan douche. That's you.

Since he will never be elected POTUS, I care very little, but the question has not been resolved, and it isn't, based on history, going Rafael's way. To be born here is to be naturally born here, and he was not.

 

[Skylar]

On a military base which is the equivalent of US soil. But thanks for providing that source because it outlines the dilemma and concern:

Natural Born Citizen Clause

Status as a natural-born citizen of the United States is one of the eligibility requirements established in the United States Constitution for election to the office of President or Vice President. This requirement was intended to protect the nation from foreign influence.

The U.S. Constitution uses but does not define the phrase "natural born Citizen", and various opinions have been offered over time regarding its precise meaning. The consensus of early 21st-century constitutional scholars, together with relevant case law, is that natural-born citizens include, subject to exceptions, those born in the United States. For those born elsewhere, there is an emerging consensus that they are also natural born citizens provided they meet the legal requirements for U.S. citizenship "at the moment of birth", but the matter remains unsettled.

A military base is not the equivalent of US soil. An embassy is. A military base is foreign soil. If a child is born to say, Norweigan parents on a US military base....the kid isn't American. She's Norwegian. The only way to acquire US citizenship on a US military base is to have US citizen parents capable of passing that citizenship onto you.

I was born on a military base overseas to two active duty US citizen parents. I've been over the law on this many times. My citizenship is by blood. Not by soil.

Correct.

Conversely, a person born in the United States where neither of his parents are US citizens is likewise a natural born citizen, and eligible to be president.

Your "anchor baby" thesis is conjecture and may prove to be false. One is an American at birth NOT NECESSARILY on the basis of WHERE one is born but on the basis of BLOOD.

That anchor baby shit deserves much closer scrutiny. A Mexican mama to be strains to get to America. Maybe the papa to be is with her. Upon illegally crossing the border, they parents are still MEXICANS with absolutely no allegiance to the country (the USA) whose law they broke as their very first act here. Thus, the child that is then born here owes no allegiance to the United States, either. To the extent that THAT is the test for who is a citizen, the anchor baby is a Mexican at birth, not an American.

You're going to have a very hard time with that argument. As the 14th amendment cites being under the jurisdiction of the US and within the US. With Madison himself recognizing that allegience follows place of birth.

The court has essentially unanimously agreed that children born to illegal immigrants the US are within the jurisdiction of the US.

Leaving you no place to go regarding the wording of the 14th amendment or our legal tradition.

Nope.

Since it was inevitable that the Constitution would never be able to define all the terms it used, it was understood that CONGRESS would periodically have to step up and define some of those things via legislation.

The 14th is some pretty clear language on the matter:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

The court found unanimously, and relatively recently, that a child born to illegal immigrants in the US is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. On what basis, then, would you deny citizenship to children born here to illegal immigrants?

Congress did so.

Sen. Cruz was a U.S. citizen at birth. And the proof is right at hand. He did not apply for -- nor did he EVER need to apply for -- "naturalization." A U.S. citizen at birth doesn't have to ASK to become a U.S. citizen.

The USC doesn't use the term 'natural born citizen'. Not in any of its 52 volumes. So Congress doesn't define the term. It doesn't even use it.

There's no question that Cruz is a citizen at birth. The question is, are citizens at birth who weren't born in the US....natural born citizens?

And that depends on the standard of constitutional intepreration you're using. If you use Cruz's 'originalist' interpretation', then he may not.

If you use the 'Living Document' standard, which Cruz opposes, then Cruz should be fine.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

He was born here, Teddy in Canada. President Wong is clear, Rafael Cruz not so much.

Once again, Ted's MOM was a U.S. citizen so -- as a direct consequence -- so was Ted AT birth: Natural born citizen. PaintYourBrain, the lead based paint is wrecking you.

That has never been ruled on. He's a citizen but is he a natural born citizen? Since the SC has never ruled, no one knows.

Poor pathetic hideously ignorant stupid you.

I don't require some group of nine men (and women) in dresses to tell me.

I already know that when ASKED to pass judgment (in the numerous "birther" cases brought against President Obumbler), the Courts were quite consistent and uniform in tossing out those cases on various grounds including lack of standing.

There isn't going to be any court decision THIS time, either. And none is needed.

Cruz was born of an American mother. Game. Set. Match. You lose. And you remain a fucking ignorant and dopey twat, to boot.

In a country that wasn't even sure on John McCain, Rafael Canada Cruz is still a roll of the dice...

The country was sure of McCain. Only dopes like you express doubts.

It was a question even then, and it was far easier to solve. That was American soil, Canada is not.

 

[Skylar]

...Wong Kim Ark...

He was born here, Teddy in Canada. President Wong is clear, Rafael Cruz not so much.

Once again, Ted's MOM was a U.S. citizen so -- as a direct consequence -- so was Ted AT birth: Natural born citizen. PaintYourBrain, the lead based paint is wrecking you.

Depends on if you're using the 'originalist' interpretation of the constitution or the 'living document' interpretation.

If you're an originalist (which Cruz is), then Cruz may have some problems. As Madison made it clear that allegiance follows place of birth in the US. The Naturalization Act of 1790 extended citizenship to children born outside the US to US parents by act of congress. AFTER the Constitution had been ratified. And the State Department makes it clear that citizenship by blood is not embodied in the constitution, but instead citizenship extended by congressional statute.

All of which contradicts the notion that citizenship by blood confers natural born status. If we're using Cruz's standard.

If we're going 'Living Document', which Cruz opposes, then Cruz is fine.

Flatly wrong.

No "living document" crap necessary. Your claim is simply a false argument.

Congress DEFINED what the Constitution did not define. And it did so on the basis of what was then recognized, generally, as the law (i.e., essentially common law and precedent).

Then show me in the United States Code.....the definition of natural born citizen.

You'll find the term isn't defined. Nor is it even used. It simply doesn't appear anywhere in the USC. Not in any of its 52 volumes.

Just destroying your argument. Worse, an originalist interpretation would require that we use the meanings of the terms as the FOUNDERS understood them. And its going to be a tough sell that the founders recognized those born in foreign countries to be natural born citizens.

The founders put the emphasis on place of birth.

 

[WheelieAddict]

Ted was not born in this country and his father has connections to Castro.