If you're working for minimum wage your financial problems are yours alone

[kaz]

And there are a lot of places that can't find Americans to work for that money. How many fast food restaurants do you see without a HELP WANTED sign inside and even outside of a building?

social services is paying around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. rational choice theory always applies.

You pay people not worth $7.25 an hour $14 an hour and let's see where "rational choice" leads you

Keep in mind we're not talking about a lot of people making minimum wage. Only about 4% of all hourly paid workers, including full and part time are paid minimum wage or less. I have never heard of a serious proposal to take minimum wage directly from $7 to $14. It is usually implemented in steps by states over a period of years. It has a minimal impact on the economy as well the workforce. By the time the federal government raises the federal minimum wage most states have already raised their minimum wage and most workers are making well above both state and federal minimum wage. We spend way too much time arguing over it.

So if people get fired more slowly that is better? If you want them to lose their jobs, why not just rip off the band aid and do it now?

Also, not only are a small portion of workers earning minimum wage, but the ones on minimum wage rarely stay there. How does preventing the lowest skilled workers who need the jobs the most from getting any job a cause of giving yourself a smug, self congratulatory, leftist pat on the back for something you spent none of your own money on?

But they don't lose their jobs...

In a letter to the president and leaders in congress, more than 600 economists, including 7 Nobel Prize winners wrote, "In recent years there have been important developments in the academic literature on the effect of increases in the minimum wage on employment, with the weight of evidence now showing that increases in the minimum wage have had little or no negative effect on the employment of minimum-wage workers, even during times of weakness in the labor market. Research suggests that a minimum-wage increase could have a small stimulative effect on the economy as low-wage workers spend their additional earnings, raising demand and job growth, and providing some help on the jobs front."

They don't? People I wouldn't pay $7.25 an hour will be paid $14 an hour by someone else?

That's awesome!

I'll let you send the Christmas card to the people that congratulations, you are statistically insignificant ... so you don't give a shit about them! Sorry man, you and your family are outside the giving a shit parameters. A true humanitarian you are!!!

Funny what a humanitarian you are while you spend zero of your own money. Apparently you and I have different standards

 

[JustAnotherNut]

For minimum wage employers don't expect productivity...so its fair. Low productivity low wage. One works as hard as they get paid.

That's not entirely true. Depending on the job/employer pay isn't always based on productivity. There are some that any raises given are given to everyone based on a pay scale for the type of position held and length of employment.

I believe in govt assistance for anyone working 40 hours per week for minimum wage. One cannot survive on that or pay a bill.

Usually minimum wage jobs don't offer 40 hours per week anymore. Most are only part-time.

You have no idea what I would give to have a part time job for a month or two right now.
my hours for the last 3 months have been 65 to 75 hours a week, I have been working 7 days a week this entire 3 month period, I am typing this right now at 1:48am from my desk at work. Why you ask? because we are having a hard time finding people to fill the spots that we have empty right now for staff. The work is out there, the problem is that people are too picky. Yes I need to work and yes I want to work, but God forbid that the hours are on a midshift, or they include weekends, you dont expect people to give up their weekends just to have a $43.00 an hour job do you? that wouldn't be fair at all. So these positions go unfilled and people like me get screwed with having to fill in the hours.. on the bright side, thats roughly 30 hours a week of overtime. My complaints are fairly silent on payday.
I dont like these hours but the thought of being unemployed right now is not a thought that I entertain with much glee.

But are you being paid minimum wage? Working retail or fast food? Probably not and that is what I spoke from.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

For minimum wage employers don't expect productivity...so its fair. Low productivity low wage. One works as hard as they get paid.

That's not entirely true. Depending on the job/employer pay isn't always based on productivity. There are some that any raises given are given to everyone based on a pay scale for the type of position held and length of employment.

I believe in govt assistance for anyone working 40 hours per week for minimum wage. One cannot survive on that or pay a bill.

Usually minimum wage jobs don't offer 40 hours per week anymore. Most are only part-time.

You have no idea what I would give to have a part time job for a month or two right now.
my hours for the last 3 months have been 65 to 75 hours a week, I have been working 7 days a week this entire 3 month period, I am typing this right now at 1:48am from my desk at work. Why you ask? because we are having a hard time finding people to fill the spots that we have empty right now for staff. The work is out there, the problem is that people are too picky. Yes I need to work and yes I want to work, but God forbid that the hours are on a midshift, or they include weekends, you dont expect people to give up their weekends just to have a $43.00 an hour job do you? that wouldn't be fair at all. So these positions go unfilled and people like me get screwed with having to fill in the hours.. on the bright side, thats roughly 30 hours a week of overtime. My complaints are fairly silent on payday.
I dont like these hours but the thought of being unemployed right now is not a thought that I entertain with much glee.

there are no unfilled positions; only positions that don't pay enough. please stop with the wealth, chauvinism.

Wrong, there are many positions that do go unfilled. Many people don't want to actually work very hard.

 

[martybegan]

Except we do nothing to prevent them anyway.

In a way I consider myself fortunate due to my upbringing. I was raised in your typical two parent family household, went to church on Sunday, went to a Catholic school most of my life, had a stay at home mother in case I got into trouble, a situation many of us had years ago as children.

My father played the major role in teaching me how to work. He was a bricklayer and I started working with him at the age of 11 years old. During the summer evenings and all weekend, I would carry clamps of bricks to my father, mix cement, fetch necessary tools to keep the job going, and coming home a filthy mess from head to toe. He paid me one dollar per hour.

My father had a full time job as a bricklayer which is why I mostly worked with him in the evenings when he got home, had dinner, and we headed to a side job of his. As I got older, I was able to produce more work and got raises from my father, but very little raises at that. My parents seldom just handed over money. You had to do something for it in exchange.

Kids raised in single-parent households didn't have such upbringing. Yet who besides Republicans promote two parent families? In the black community, the out-of-wedlock birth rate is over 70%. Nobody seems to want to do anything about it. So of course those kids know nothing about working until they quit school or graduate and get their very first job.

If most of the failures we have been discussing had your family background, they would not be failures. Solving the problems of education, drugs, crime, mental health, unemployment, dependency, and economic growth all starts with the child and the family. Fix that and you fix it all. Unfortunately, solving social problems are the most difficult problems a nation faces. Our social welfare system is not geared to fix the problems, just maintain the status quo. The Left and Right are so far apart there really isn't much hope at the present time.

I disagree. I want to take you back to the Republican debates for the presidential nomination involving Newt Gingrich. Newt understood that not all people are college material. Our education system should teach children about manual labor--especially those who were brought up in families I just mentioned.

He was heavily criticized by the left for expressing the opinion that kids should work. They brought up slave labor, child labor, working for next to nothing, the whole ball of wax. I agreed with Newt because when I was a kid in school, we had such a program. Instead of sitting in useless study halls and gym, we were allowed to work at the various schools in the area and actually earn our first paycheck. I had to wake up extra early, go to a school, empty out trash cans, raise the US flag, burn the trash I collected, sweep the halls and so on.

Yes, kids should work and kids should study and parents should not expect their kid making C's and D's to go to college but all this does not address the underlying problems. Unless we address the underlying problems, nothing will change.

If kids are to do well in school, the first requirement is self esteem. They have to believe they can or they won't try and they need encouragement from parents or those that fill the roll of parents. Parenting classes for single mother should be a requirement for any financial support. 50% of the childcare between the ages of 2 and 8 consist of caging the children in cribs, playrooms or planting them in front of TV for most of the day. These years are the most important years for developing self esteem, learning the basic skills needed for school, and developing social skills. Fix the young kids and we'll fix most of America's problems. Ignore them, and problems will get worse.

Raising self esteem has been tried, i.e. the "everyone gets a trophy" method of teaching/parenting, and we see what that has gotten us. Precious snowflakes that can't deal with contrary opinions, or criticism, or anything else in the real world.

That's dumb. No praise at all is better than giving kids praise for doing nothing or failing. People seem to think self esteem can only be build by the parent but the fact is anyone who cares for the child can do it, parent, neighbor, teacher, or babysitter. The steps are simple but like real childcare it takes time.

• Give children choices
• Don't do everything for them
• Don't gush or offer insincere praise; kids can detect insincerity.
• Assign age-appropriate chores.
• Don't draw comparisons between children.
• Don't call children names and never use sarcasm to make a point.
• Spend one-on-one time with the child.

It sounds simple but it can take the patience of Jove. It's worth the time because it can make a huge difference in the future of the child.

That isn't building self-esteem, that's building character. The Self-Esteem movement is about giving praise even when it is not due or earned.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Says anyone with half a brain cell. Its good to see those jobs unfilled. If businesses struggle to fill positions that is good.

So you're OK with cutting EBT in half to,start? Then to zero?

Cool....

this is why I believe in unemployment compensation, simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

And who is supposed to pay for all this unemployment? You do realize that unemployment is an insurance, don't you?

of course he doesn't

Like most of these idiot whiners who don't want to work he knows absolutely nothing about anything having to do with running a business and employing people

 

[Skull Pilot]

You have no idea what I would give to have a part time job for a month or two right now.
my hours for the last 3 months have been 65 to 75 hours a week, I have been working 7 days a week this entire 3 month period, I am typing this right now at 1:48am from my desk at work. Why you ask? because we are having a hard time finding people to fill the spots that we have empty right now for staff. The work is out there, the problem is that people are too picky. Yes I need to work and yes I want to work, but God forbid that the hours are on a midshift, or they include weekends, you dont expect people to give up their weekends just to have a $43.00 an hour job do you? that wouldn't be fair at all. So these positions go unfilled and people like me get screwed with having to fill in the hours.. on the bright side, thats roughly 30 hours a week of overtime. My complaints are fairly silent on payday.
I dont like these hours but the thought of being unemployed right now is not a thought that I entertain with much glee.

there are no unfilled positions; only positions that don't pay enough. please stop with the wealth, chauvinism.

there are no positions that do not pay enough, only people that are too greedy and conceited to accept that they are not worth what they think they are. And I dont care how many advanced degrees you have, if you are flipping a burger you deserve minimum wage to perform that task.
So stop with the employers can afford anything attitude.

it is employers who are the greedy ones; they are not working for a minimum wage.

why should they work for minimum wage? they are the ones taking all of the risk. Should they be compensated for the risk they are exposing themselves to in order to employ others and stimulate the economy?
Im sure if you owned a major corporation, or you were the CEO, you would limit you pay to the same as what the guy sweeping the floor is paid.

it is just money when you say risk. try doing it without money. that is even riskier. Capitalism's, natural rate of unemployment is official policy that simply helps the rich get richer faster by making the poor work harder for less.

have you ever risked anything to open a business?

No?

When my wife and I started our business 10 years ago we risked everything to do so all of our savings, most of our retirement, and we took a 50K loan if it failed we would have been living in our car

until you do that don't talk to me about running a business or employing people

 

[Maryland Patriot]

there are no unfilled positions; only positions that don't pay enough. please stop with the wealth, chauvinism.

there are no positions that do not pay enough, only people that are too greedy and conceited to accept that they are not worth what they think they are. And I dont care how many advanced degrees you have, if you are flipping a burger you deserve minimum wage to perform that task.
So stop with the employers can afford anything attitude.

it is employers who are the greedy ones; they are not working for a minimum wage.

why should they work for minimum wage? they are the ones taking all of the risk. Should they be compensated for the risk they are exposing themselves to in order to employ others and stimulate the economy?
Im sure if you owned a major corporation, or you were the CEO, you would limit you pay to the same as what the guy sweeping the floor is paid.

it is just money when you say risk. try doing it without money. that is even riskier. Capitalism's, natural rate of unemployment is official policy that simply helps the rich get richer faster by making the poor work harder for less.

have you ever risked anything to open a business?

No?

When my wife and I started our business 10 years ago we risked everything to do so all of our savings, most of our retirement, and we took a 50K loan if it failed we would have been living in our car

until you do that don't talk to me about running a business or employing people

People that have never tried, have no clue what it actually takes to do it.

 

[danielpalos]

Most all ceos are lazy and should not have wealth. We both agree on this. Most ceos are underworked overpaid and bring no value. This we agree on too.

That's because you never knew a CEO. You watch too many movies about CEO's sitting in their office all day practicing their putts on their astroturf set up in their office.

Movies and television shows are not reality. But if you really believe that about CEO's, why don't you become a CEO yourself? Apply to companies and tell them that you want a job being overpaid and underworked.

Good luck with your CEO job hunting.

I would, but I don't want to have to work harder than my help, to convince them it really is hard work that got me where I am, not a loan from daddy.

Or, you would if you could. But the truth is you can't do the job of a CEO.

all it takes is a loan from daddy; anyone can make it, that way.

The Decline of Inherited Money

According to a study by Prince & Associates, less than 10% of today’s multi-millionaires cited “inheritance” as their source of wealth.

why wait to inherit when a simple loan will do?

According to PolitiFact and others, in 2011 the 400 wealthiest Americans "have more wealth than half of all Americans combined."[23][24][25][26] Inherited wealth may help explain why many Americans who have become rich may have had a "substantial head start".[27][28] In September 2012, according to the Institute for Policy Studies, "over 60 percent" of the Forbes richest 400 Americans "grew up in substantial privilege".--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth#In_the_United_States

 

[danielpalos]

social services is paying around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. rational choice theory always applies.

Correct, that is the problem. Welfare pays better than work in many cases. A good reason it should pay much less. Then people would have no choice but to support themselves.

there is a reason for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage. only the right wants the poor to work harder for less, so the rich can get richer faster.

There is a reason for a $15.00 an hour minimum wage, and that reason it relieves people from bettering themselves. If you had to work towards making that $15.00 an hour by yourself, you'll try harder.

the reason for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage is that social services pays fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. rational choice theory applies; only the right, never gets it.

No, it's the left that doesn't get it.

"If you pay people not to work, don't be surprised when they don't!"
Rush Limbaugh

If welfare programs are paying more than jobs do, then welfare is paying too much, that's the problem. Lowlifes are living like kings, eating so much on their SNAP's cards that they are grossly overweight, living in the suburbs on HUD, irresponsibly having kids they can't afford because they're lazy, getting their utilities paid for free, and let's not forget Medicaid for the whole family.

So what's the point of working? Studies have shown the so-called poor live just as good if not better than the working. In NYC, people that receive full benefits do better than a starting teacher. It's no wonder why over one-third of our population of working age people don't have a job and are not looking for one either.

there are no unfilled jobs under capitalism; Only jobs that don't pay enough.

 

[danielpalos]

Yes I could. Its a cake easy job in most cases. Those most unable usually get it. I stake everything I own on it.

Then get a job as a CEO and then tell us about it. You wouldn't even know how to get to your office yet alone do one thing a CEO does. Do you think companies pay them the kind of money they make if anybody could do their job?

all he needs is a loan from daddy.

 

[danielpalos]

Ray if I can learn how to sit on my butt I can be a CEO. Unli!ke you they are no more important than the laborers who earn nothing but do the actual work. Ceos should be booted out in the cold left to suffer.

Well show us how easy it is. That's all I'm asking. Show me how you can be a CEO with no education, no political ties, no business relationships, no successful history running a company. It's so easy........right?

I'll wait here for you to announce what company hired you to be their CEO.

he is lining up financing, with daddy.

 

[danielpalos]

Today's businesses are cheap bad owners who need to feel hurt.

how good can they be, if they can Only make it on cheap labor.

 

[danielpalos]

social services is paying around fourteen dollars an hour, by comparison. rational choice theory always applies.

You pay people not worth $7.25 an hour $14 an hour and let's see where "rational choice" leads you

Keep in mind we're not talking about a lot of people making minimum wage. Only about 4% of all hourly paid workers, including full and part time are paid minimum wage or less. I have never heard of a serious proposal to take minimum wage directly from $7 to $14. It is usually implemented in steps by states over a period of years. It has a minimal impact on the economy as well the workforce. By the time the federal government raises the federal minimum wage most states have already raised their minimum wage and most workers are making well above both state and federal minimum wage. We spend way too much time arguing over it.

So if people get fired more slowly that is better? If you want them to lose their jobs, why not just rip off the band aid and do it now?

Also, not only are a small portion of workers earning minimum wage, but the ones on minimum wage rarely stay there. How does preventing the lowest skilled workers who need the jobs the most from getting any job a cause of giving yourself a smug, self congratulatory, leftist pat on the back for something you spent none of your own money on?

But they don't lose their jobs...

In a letter to the president and leaders in congress, more than 600 economists, including 7 Nobel Prize winners wrote, "In recent years there have been important developments in the academic literature on the effect of increases in the minimum wage on employment, with the weight of evidence now showing that increases in the minimum wage have had little or no negative effect on the employment of minimum-wage workers, even during times of weakness in the labor market. Research suggests that a minimum-wage increase could have a small stimulative effect on the economy as low-wage workers spend their additional earnings, raising demand and job growth, and providing some help on the jobs front."

They don't? People I wouldn't pay $7.25 an hour will be paid $14 an hour by someone else?

That's awesome!

I'll let you send the Christmas card to the people that congratulations, you are statistically insignificant ... so you don't give a shit about them! Sorry man, you and your family are outside the giving a shit parameters. A true humanitarian you are!!!

Funny what a humanitarian you are while you spend zero of your own money. Apparently you and I have different standards

Not into efficiency or efficiency wages?

 

[danielpalos]

For minimum wage employers don't expect productivity...so its fair. Low productivity low wage. One works as hard as they get paid.

That's not entirely true. Depending on the job/employer pay isn't always based on productivity. There are some that any raises given are given to everyone based on a pay scale for the type of position held and length of employment.

I believe in govt assistance for anyone working 40 hours per week for minimum wage. One cannot survive on that or pay a bill.

Usually minimum wage jobs don't offer 40 hours per week anymore. Most are only part-time.

You have no idea what I would give to have a part time job for a month or two right now.
my hours for the last 3 months have been 65 to 75 hours a week, I have been working 7 days a week this entire 3 month period, I am typing this right now at 1:48am from my desk at work. Why you ask? because we are having a hard time finding people to fill the spots that we have empty right now for staff. The work is out there, the problem is that people are too picky. Yes I need to work and yes I want to work, but God forbid that the hours are on a midshift, or they include weekends, you dont expect people to give up their weekends just to have a $43.00 an hour job do you? that wouldn't be fair at all. So these positions go unfilled and people like me get screwed with having to fill in the hours.. on the bright side, thats roughly 30 hours a week of overtime. My complaints are fairly silent on payday.
I dont like these hours but the thought of being unemployed right now is not a thought that I entertain with much glee.

there are no unfilled positions; only positions that don't pay enough. please stop with the wealth, chauvinism.

Wrong, there are many positions that do go unfilled. Many people don't want to actually work very hard.

only the right doesn't Truly believe in Capitalism for themselves, only for others.

The job doesn't pay enough; that is all.

 

[danielpalos]

Says anyone with half a brain cell. Its good to see those jobs unfilled. If businesses struggle to fill positions that is good.

So you're OK with cutting EBT in half to,start? Then to zero?

Cool....

this is why I believe in unemployment compensation, simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

And who is supposed to pay for all this unemployment? You do realize that unemployment is an insurance, don't you?

of course he doesn't

Like most of these idiot whiners who don't want to work he knows absolutely nothing about anything having to do with running a business and employing people

a general tax on firms instead of our current regime. we could be lowering our tax burden and ensuring capitalists have a better work force to choose from. only the right, never gets it.

 

[danielpalos]

Your boss didn't kill your ambition.
Your boss didn't make you fail your education.
I didn't kill your ambition.
I didn't make you fail in school.

If you're an adult working for minimum wage it is YOUR irresponsible choices that led you there.

I wonder GrampsM, if slavery wasn't illegal would you also be the guy making threads about how being a slave is your own damn fault?

You are a fucking idiot and I welcome the moderation. Fuck off

So you wouldn't? Right?

So there you go, you are in perfect position to understand why some wouldn't want near-slave wages to be legal.

On both counts there is a moral component to the question. It maybe very well be someone's fault, doesn't make it moral.

How about no minimum wage? Let the market determine wages based on your skills and work ethic.

how about, no war on drugs or corporate welfare?

 

[danielpalos]

Your boss didn't kill your ambition.
Your boss didn't make you fail your education.
I didn't kill your ambition.
I didn't make you fail in school.

If you're an adult working for minimum wage it is YOUR irresponsible choices that led you there.

I wonder GrampsM, if slavery wasn't illegal would you also be the guy making threads about how being a slave is your own damn fault?

You are a fucking idiot and I welcome the moderation. Fuck off

So you wouldn't? Right?

So there you go, you are in perfect position to understand why some wouldn't want near-slave wages to be legal.

On both counts there is a moral component to the question. It maybe very well be someone's fault, doesn't make it moral.

How about no minimum wage? Let the market determine wages based on your skills and work ethic.

Why not bring back slavery and child labor as well?

Unions and a minimum wage is why America had such a vibrant middle class.

Only the right wing, never gets it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Says anyone with half a brain cell. Its good to see those jobs unfilled. If businesses struggle to fill positions that is good.

So you're OK with cutting EBT in half to,start? Then to zero?

Cool....

this is why I believe in unemployment compensation, simply for being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.

And who is supposed to pay for all this unemployment? You do realize that unemployment is an insurance, don't you?

of course he doesn't

Like most of these idiot whiners who don't want to work he knows absolutely nothing about anything having to do with running a business and employing people

a general tax on firms instead of our current regime. we could be lowering our tax burden and ensuring capitalists have a better work force to choose from. only the right, never gets it.

businesses already pay more taxes than you ever will

 

[danielpalos]

No adult should show up for minimum wage and do a good job. That I believe. The employer doest deserve good workers for that.

minimum work for a minimum wage?

 

[kaz]

You pay people not worth $7.25 an hour $14 an hour and let's see where "rational choice" leads you

Keep in mind we're not talking about a lot of people making minimum wage. Only about 4% of all hourly paid workers, including full and part time are paid minimum wage or less. I have never heard of a serious proposal to take minimum wage directly from $7 to $14. It is usually implemented in steps by states over a period of years. It has a minimal impact on the economy as well the workforce. By the time the federal government raises the federal minimum wage most states have already raised their minimum wage and most workers are making well above both state and federal minimum wage. We spend way too much time arguing over it.

So if people get fired more slowly that is better? If you want them to lose their jobs, why not just rip off the band aid and do it now?

Also, not only are a small portion of workers earning minimum wage, but the ones on minimum wage rarely stay there. How does preventing the lowest skilled workers who need the jobs the most from getting any job a cause of giving yourself a smug, self congratulatory, leftist pat on the back for something you spent none of your own money on?

But they don't lose their jobs...

In a letter to the president and leaders in congress, more than 600 economists, including 7 Nobel Prize winners wrote, "In recent years there have been important developments in the academic literature on the effect of increases in the minimum wage on employment, with the weight of evidence now showing that increases in the minimum wage have had little or no negative effect on the employment of minimum-wage workers, even during times of weakness in the labor market. Research suggests that a minimum-wage increase could have a small stimulative effect on the economy as low-wage workers spend their additional earnings, raising demand and job growth, and providing some help on the jobs front."

They don't? People I wouldn't pay $7.25 an hour will be paid $14 an hour by someone else?

That's awesome!

I'll let you send the Christmas card to the people that congratulations, you are statistically insignificant ... so you don't give a shit about them! Sorry man, you and your family are outside the giving a shit parameters. A true humanitarian you are!!!

Funny what a humanitarian you are while you spend zero of your own money. Apparently you and I have different standards

Not into efficiency or efficiency wages?

I like the smell of napalm in the morning