Im ready to curb gun murders. Lets work together

[TNHarley]

So you don't think we are getting illegal guns from overseas?
Is there a solution to curb gun circulation without infringing on rights of law abiding people?

I don't think so, TN. However, in a complex society, "rights" come with responsibilities. When our country has the highest gun homicide rate of all civilized nations, perhaps it is time for everyone to take some responsibility for the innocents that are shot every day.

Frivolous gun laws have never worked and will never work, people that think they do are stupid people...

I'm not talking "frivolous." If I didn't know it was completely unrealistic to expect, I'd be advocating for the Australia solution. I'm talking full out get-rid-of-the-fucking-things, nothing frivolous about it. However, thanks to our violent and gun loving cowboys, frivolous is all we can hope for.

And we do have a 2nd Amendment. So, keep them, I say, but do background checks and register them.

That will help curb illegal guns, the experts say. The 2nd amendment can be honored by allowing hunting rifles for protecting livestock from critters and in a pinch to use for self protection. Or shooting at government soldiers, as some say this amendment was designed to protect. If our Founding Fathers were to study the problem today, they might have made their language on this a bit more clear.

probably and they would laugh at people that want to curb our rights. Their intent is all over the place. And it totally makes sense. Especially considering why they came here anyways...

 

[OldLady]

I don't think so, TN. However, in a complex society, "rights" come with responsibilities. When our country has the highest gun homicide rate of all civilized nations, perhaps it is time for everyone to take some responsibility for the innocents that are shot every day.

What does that have to do with us? You think we are alike enough to HONESTLY compare it?
We have over 330M here, we have a native urban culture, so many differences to list.
It isn't that black and white.
Its like people refer to socialist countries as having all this free shit and they do fine. Then you look at suicide rates and violent crime.. Its not black and white, its a Crayola 64 crayon pack.

Oh, it's black and white alright. No guns, no shootings. But it won't happen like that here because too many of you apparently feel it shouldn't, and this is a democracy. Although it is entirely defeating to have this discussion on USMB, with its conservative majority, I think a good part of the country may feel differently about it though. We'll see.

Its not black and white when you compare it to other countries. There are variables. Basic math..
Of course if there was no guns, there would be no shootings. Probably a lot of sword fighting and fertilizer bombing, though. Lol
But this country has second amendment rights. They don't. Honestly, its completely moot, anyways.

Everyone remembers the McDonalds sword mass murders of the 1500s.

you probably do

Brat

 

[Aries]

How about we ban Chicago, DC, LA, Memphis and Detroit area?
That might help with the gang problem.

If you want to ease gang violence you have to ease the cause of gang culture. Stop generational poverty, stop the oppression of minority communities, raise wages, lower costs of education etc. etc. You can not address gang violence without addressing the causing factors.

 

[ricechickie]

I don't think so, TN. However, in a complex society, "rights" come with responsibilities. When our country has the highest gun homicide rate of all civilized nations, perhaps it is time for everyone to take some responsibility for the innocents that are shot every day.

What does that have to do with us? You think we are alike enough to HONESTLY compare it?
We have over 330M here, we have a native urban culture, so many differences to list.
It isn't that black and white.
Its like people refer to socialist countries as having all this free shit and they do fine. Then you look at suicide rates and violent crime.. Its not black and white, its a Crayola 64 crayon pack.

Oh, it's black and white alright. No guns, no shootings. But it won't happen like that here because too many of you apparently feel it shouldn't, and this is a democracy. Although it is entirely defeating to have this discussion on USMB, with its conservative majority, I think a good part of the country may feel differently about it though. We'll see.

Its not black and white when you compare it to other countries. There are variables. Basic math..
Of course if there was no guns, there would be no shootings. Probably a lot of sword fighting and fertilizer bombing, though. Lol
But this country has second amendment rights. They don't. Honestly, its completely moot, anyways.

Everyone remembers the McDonalds sword mass murders of the 1500s.

you probably do

I'm not sure if I should tell you to respect your elders or call you Gramps.

 

[Pogo]

Lets get to the bottom of the pandemic of suicides and gang violence with guns.
I am ready to solve this issue!
We obviously cant stop suicides. We could take their gun, but it will still happen. But we could take the gun, and they can use a knife and slit their throat. Or throw themselves in front of a bus. Maybe that's better? So there goes the number one cause of gun murder.
Gang violence. Most of them use illegal guns. So how do we curb that?
I don't want to hear no bullshit about background checks on private transactions or limited magazines or the same worn out clichés the gun grabbers use on a daily basis. Id like to work on ACTUAL solutions instead of reducing liberties for the majority of the country.
Lets work and ACTUALLY figure out a solution!
Whos with me?

As I've been yammering since literally the day I got here right between Jovan Belcher/Bob Costas and Sandy Hook --- it takes cultural change.

Throw laws at the problem and people who want to will go around those laws. Doesn't work. That's treating the symptom and ignoring the disease.

We hear of a Sandy Hook and we claim to be horrified. If that were true, if we truly were horrified, we wouldn't be living in a place where it would even occur to the Lanzas and the Klebolds and the Loughners and the Holmses to go out in public and emulate what they see on TV every night, what they see in every movie house, what they played with as kids. Because those would be horrifying too. We should be unable to watch a scene like that and then simply go to sleep as if nothing happened. We are a culture that worships guns and death and destruction and carnage, and that, the first step is to understand and acknowledge, is the disease.

You can never stop gun murder altogether. You can never stop cigarette smoking altogether either. But we drove the latter WAY down, not by throwing laws at it but by making it socially uncool. That's the direct approach.

EXCELLENT post, pogo. Thank you.
Are you referring to something like "social shaming?"

That's one manifestation. I'd point the crosshairs more at "social deprivation". IOW when some kid sees an AK or watches a hail of movie bullets mow people down and goes "wow, that's cool" --- the rest of us should force him to explain why. And confront it.

That could lead to a long term dent in in the problem. Might take a while, but it would be worth the wait! Thank you!

It definitely takes a while. It's an entire shift of consciousness. It's a direct assault on the idea that spraying bullets on helpless bystanders and watching globules of flesh and blood fly into the air is a cool thing rather than something that should literally make us puke. And such infantile fantasies are deeply rooted in emotion devoid of rationality. Here's an example:

I mentioned Bob Costas, meaning a Monday Night Football commentary he did after Jovan Belcher's murder-suicide. Go find that video on YouTube --- there are hundreds of uploads --- and every last one describes the commentary as a "gun control rant" ----

​

Go ahead -- look this up in the YouTube search bar and try to find one of them that doesn't call it about "gun control".

And yet --- nowhere in the entire commentary does Costas ever mention or allude to gun control in any way at all. Never mentions any laws or proposes one. Never mentions Constitutional rights or any kind of restrictions whatsoever. His entire rant is about culture. The culture that solves a problem by shooting it.

Yet the gun fetishists who presumably seek to show off some kind of testosterone thing, can't find the guts to take the point on its own terms --- they need to pretend it's about "gun control" and turn it into something personal where their own personal pacifier is being taken away because "hey, my carnage fantasies are way more important than those twenty kids and if I forgot to mention it, me me me".

That's what I mean by an infantile emotional fetish. So yeah there's most definitely work to do.

When I came to this site on this issue, the hot button at the time, I kept noting the infantile pattern of defensiveness against anybody who dared speak to bring the issue up:

"Bob Costas should be fired".
"David Gregory should be arrested".
"Piers Morgan should be deported".

There's the disease --- the irrational fetish.

 

[cnm]

So you believe in two wrongs make a right? Interesting.

Oh. I thought we were talking about reality and what could be done even if people didn't want to do it. Wrong thread for that, fer shure.

 

[TNHarley]

How about we ban Chicago, DC, LA, Memphis and Detroit area?
That might help with the gang problem.

If you want to ease gang violence you have to ease the cause of gang culture. Stop generation poverty, stop the oppression of minority communities, raise wages, lower costs of education etc. etc. You can not address gang violence without addressing the causing factors.

So discriminating economic policies for blacks isn't enough? What else do they need? I damn sure wont wipe their ass after a big dump!

 

[TNHarley]

What does that have to do with us? You think we are alike enough to HONESTLY compare it?
We have over 330M here, we have a native urban culture, so many differences to list.
It isn't that black and white.
Its like people refer to socialist countries as having all this free shit and they do fine. Then you look at suicide rates and violent crime.. Its not black and white, its a Crayola 64 crayon pack.

Oh, it's black and white alright. No guns, no shootings. But it won't happen like that here because too many of you apparently feel it shouldn't, and this is a democracy. Although it is entirely defeating to have this discussion on USMB, with its conservative majority, I think a good part of the country may feel differently about it though. We'll see.

Its not black and white when you compare it to other countries. There are variables. Basic math..
Of course if there was no guns, there would be no shootings. Probably a lot of sword fighting and fertilizer bombing, though. Lol
But this country has second amendment rights. They don't. Honestly, its completely moot, anyways.

Everyone remembers the McDonalds sword mass murders of the 1500s.

you probably do

I'm not sure if I should tell you to respect your elders or call you Gramps.

How about Master Harley?

 

[Aries]

How about we ban Chicago, DC, LA, Memphis and Detroit area?
That might help with the gang problem.

If you want to ease gang violence you have to ease the cause of gang culture. Stop generation poverty, stop the oppression of minority communities, raise wages, lower costs of education etc. etc. You can not address gang violence without addressing the causing factors.

So discriminating economic policies for blacks isn't enough? What else do they need? I damn sure wont wipe their ass after a big dump!

discriminating economic policies for blacks? Lol.... like what exactly?

I love when white men think equality is the same thing as white oppression. Gives me butterflies in my tummy.

 

[cnm]

Same reason I laugh when someone brings up owning a nuke

Armament and ordinance, not arms, involved

Ffs. What a maroon.

Arms Collins English Dictionary
plural noun1.
weapons collectively​

 

[ricechickie]

Oh, it's black and white alright. No guns, no shootings. But it won't happen like that here because too many of you apparently feel it shouldn't, and this is a democracy. Although it is entirely defeating to have this discussion on USMB, with its conservative majority, I think a good part of the country may feel differently about it though. We'll see.

Its not black and white when you compare it to other countries. There are variables. Basic math..
Of course if there was no guns, there would be no shootings. Probably a lot of sword fighting and fertilizer bombing, though. Lol
But this country has second amendment rights. They don't. Honestly, its completely moot, anyways.

Everyone remembers the McDonalds sword mass murders of the 1500s.

you probably do

I'm not sure if I should tell you to respect your elders or call you Gramps.

How about Master Harley?

Nah, fuck that.

 

[TNHarley]

How about we ban Chicago, DC, LA, Memphis and Detroit area?
That might help with the gang problem.

If you want to ease gang violence you have to ease the cause of gang culture. Stop generation poverty, stop the oppression of minority communities, raise wages, lower costs of education etc. etc. You can not address gang violence without addressing the causing factors.

So discriminating economic policies for blacks isn't enough? What else do they need? I damn sure wont wipe their ass after a big dump!

discriminating economic policies for blacks? Lol.... like what exactly?

I love when white men think equality is the same thing as white oppression. Gives me butterflies in my tummy.

AA? Special scholarships just for being black. All kinds of govt sponsored shit just for being black. Why act so coy?
I love it when white people pretend to understand what black people need. You leftists have been preaching about it for decades with nothing to show for it. Try something new

 

[TNHarley]

Its not black and white when you compare it to other countries. There are variables. Basic math..
Of course if there was no guns, there would be no shootings. Probably a lot of sword fighting and fertilizer bombing, though. Lol
But this country has second amendment rights. They don't. Honestly, its completely moot, anyways.

Everyone remembers the McDonalds sword mass murders of the 1500s.

you probably do

I'm not sure if I should tell you to respect your elders or call you Gramps.

How about Master Harley?

Nah, fuck that.

 

[2aguy]

there is an doc that traces gun makers outta south american....and how illegal gun prices become so inflated...

In California, some gun smugglers use FedEx. In Chicago, smugglers drive just across the state line into Indiana, buy a gun and drive back. In Orlando, Fla., smugglers have been known to fill a $500 car with guns and send it on a ship to crime rings in Puerto Rico.

In response to mass shootings in the last few years, more than 20 states, including some of the nation’s biggest, have passed new laws restricting how people can buy and carry guns. Yet the effect of those laws has been significantly diluted by a thriving underground market for firearms brought from states with few restrictions.

About 50,000 guns are found to be diverted to criminals across state lines every year, federal data shows, and many more are likely to cross state lines undetected.

In New York and New Jersey, which have some of the strictest laws in the country, more than two-thirds of guns tied to criminal activity were traced to out-of-state purchases in 2014. Many were brought in via the so-called Iron Pipeline, made up of Interstate 95 and its tributary highways, from Southern states with weaker gun laws, like Virginia, Georgia and Florida.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/12/us/gun-traffickers-smuggling-state-gun-laws.html

if we are gonna deal with facts

Sorry..doesn't wash....

Chicago gangs face the same gun laws as New York and L.A.......and kill far more people than either city.......New York is on the border of gun states...and kill fewer people than Chicago does....the pipeline myth is a myth...it is the culture of the criminals in the democrat cities that drives gun crime....L.A. gangs have access to gun states too...and kill fewer people than Chicago gangs....

The pipeline myth is a gun grabber fantasy.....

 

[jc456]

Excellent question.

I think the real hard core answer is to come down hard on the gangs and drug trade that produces the violence. How you do that without taking away Liberty is the $64 question.

well you can't have both. You can't allow gangs and save the gang members liberties. It is impossible to accomplish. You might as well state you want to stuff a cadillac in a sewer hole.

 

[Auld Phart]

Same reason I laugh when someone brings up owning a nuke

Armament and ordinance, not arms, involved

Ffs. What a maroon.

Arms Collins English Dictionary
plural noun1.
weapons collectively​

Bear arms definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

Note the word 'carry'

 

[2aguy]

The only way to stop gun violence short term....

if you use a gun to commit a robbery, rape, murder, beating......30 years in a federal prison......

If you are a convicted, violent felon, merely caught in possession of a gun, bullets or a magazine....30 years in prison.

That solves your gun crime problem.......

Then you work on single teenage mothers raising young males without fathers...for the long term solution...

 

[cnm]

Funny x 1
WillHaftawaite

 

[ricechickie]

How about we ban Chicago, DC, LA, Memphis and Detroit area?
That might help with the gang problem.

If you want to ease gang violence you have to ease the cause of gang culture. Stop generation poverty, stop the oppression of minority communities, raise wages, lower costs of education etc. etc. You can not address gang violence without addressing the causing factors.

So discriminating economic policies for blacks isn't enough? What else do they need? I damn sure wont wipe their ass after a big dump!

discriminating economic policies for blacks? Lol.... like what exactly?

I love when white men think equality is the same thing as white oppression. Gives me butterflies in my tummy.

AA? Special scholarships just for being black. All kinds of govt sponsored shit just for being black. Why act so coy?
I love it when white people pretend to understand what black people need. You leftists have been preaching about it for decades with nothing to show for it. Try something new

As opposed to the right's policy of..........

Hmm.

 

[Aries]

How about we ban Chicago, DC, LA, Memphis and Detroit area?
That might help with the gang problem.

If you want to ease gang violence you have to ease the cause of gang culture. Stop generation poverty, stop the oppression of minority communities, raise wages, lower costs of education etc. etc. You can not address gang violence without addressing the causing factors.

So discriminating economic policies for blacks isn't enough? What else do they need? I damn sure wont wipe their ass after a big dump!

discriminating economic policies for blacks? Lol.... like what exactly?

I love when white men think equality is the same thing as white oppression. Gives me butterflies in my tummy.

AA? Special scholarships just for being black. All kinds of govt sponsored shit just for being black. Why act so coy?
I love it when white people pretend to understand what black people need. You leftists have been preaching about it for decades with nothing to show for it. Try something new

You understand all of those things were necessary to start leveling the playing field right? You understand that before those laws african americans were discriminated against to the point that their community was unable to progress at all. You understand that discrimination is wrong, right? So if US colleges aren't taking african americans, there needs to be legislation to reverse the negative affect.