Immigration is Destroying America.

[RKMBrown]

World Education Services - Licensing - PROGRAMS AND RESOURCES FOR IMMIGRANT PROFESSIONALS

 

[RKMBrown]

Students and Employment | USCIS

 

[RKMBrown]

Welcome to Job Corps

A person is eligible for Job Corps if he
or she meets the following criteria:
Is a legal U.S. resident; lawfully admitted
permanent resident alien, refugee, asylee, or parolee,
or other immigrant who has been authorized by the
U.S. attorney general to work in the United States; or
resident of a U.S. territory.
Meets low-income criteria.
Is in need of additional technical training,
education, counseling, or related assistance to
complete schoolwork or to find and keep a job.
Has signed consent from a parent or guardian if
he or she is a minor.
Has a child care plan if he or she is the parent of a
dependent child.
Does not exhibit behavioral problems that could
keep him, her, or others from experiencing Job Corps’
full benefits.
Does not require any face-to-face court or
institutional supervision or court-imposed fines while
enrolled in Job Corps.
Does not use drugs illegally

 

[Stephanie]

We're already ruined

Multiculturalism and not being required to assimilate to become Americans

when we have press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish...I'm just surprised it's not the other way around yet, press 1 for Spanish, 2 for English

I just feel sorry for my children, grandchildren, etc

 

[Kondor3]

Your assumption continues to be we only have two choices. My answer is neither. The foreigner might be here on welfare. The American worker might be on 1 dollar a year of welfare. Your broad based pick one of these two bad choices is no different to me than asking me when I stopped beating my wife. The answer is I disagree with your question entirely. The foreigner might be our guest here legally, invited to come here to work. No two foreigners are created equal, every single immigrant is potentially a different discussion...

Yes, all God's Children are different, be they Citizen or Foreigner.

Next slide, please.

In dealing with the macro-level view, we must generalize.

Your unwillingness to generalize tells me all I need to know about the likelihood of reaching a middle-ground with you, in any related discussion.

Your unwillingness to train or re-train an American worker and to let that job fall to a Foreigner also tells me a great deal.

More's the pity.

Fortunately, for those able to take advantage of such re-training programs, large numbers of folks on both sides of the aisle support such initiatives, and, so long as they're in the majority and running things, and you're not, the initiative will continue, and, quite probably, expand.

You can rail against it until the cows come home, from the sidelines, where nobody's paying attention to it, but I wouldn't count on it doing any good.

I give charity at church, we have a training program...

I give to charity as well. Your church 'training program' is immaterial and inadequate.

...I don't worship my government, and do not wish to tithe to it as you do...

I neither worship my government nor wish to tithe, either, but taxes in support of a national Safety Net are a Reality in our present age.

Can you please provide evidence that your training programs do not include the training of immigrants?

Nope.

But I CAN provide evidence that WIA Training Grant Dollars are intended for (1) US citizens and (2) immigrants who are authorized to work in the US.

...In addition to any other statutory or regulatory requirements, under WIA section 188(a)(5)-- "Prohibition on Discrimination Against Certain Non-Citizens"-- participation in programs or activities, or receiving financial assistance under WIA title I, must be available to citizens and nationals of the United States, lawfully admitted permanent resident aliens, refugees, asylees, and parolees and other immigrants authorized to work in the United States. Compliance with the non-discrimination provisions of WIA is addressed in the Interim Final Regulations promulgated by the Department's Civil Rights Center at 29 CFR part 37 (64 Fed. Reg. 61692, November 12, 1999). A discussion of these provisions can be found in the preamble discussion of 29 CFR 37.37(b)(2), at 64 Fed. Reg. 61705...

Workforce Investment Act Final Rule

...and confidence is fairly high that if we dig deeply enough, we'll find that the vast and overwhelming majority of beneficiaries of such training grants are, indeed, US Citizens.

That training money sure-as-hell isn't going to Illegal Aliens.

 

[RKMBrown]

Well, that's one opinion.

I vote otherwise; to train or re-train the American to do the job.

Better than bringing-in an outsider, while leaving a mouth to feed amongst our own.

We take care of our own, first.

Then, if we can't find any other way to fill the job, then, and only then, do we go to the outside.

How do you propose to do this forced retraining of American citizens? How do you propose to force them to use the training we shoved down their throats? What you you propose we force them to be retrained in? Maybe your job? What do you do for a living? How would you like it if we use your tax dollars to retrain Americans to take your job from you? What are you gonna do to these people when they suck at this new job we forced them to be retrained for? We gonna let them starve this time, or are we gonna just find a 3rd, 4th, 5th etc job for them till we have forced them to retrain in something they like that also pays a living?

We are paying good tax payer dollars to fund kids to among other things learn how to be rap stars. Is that a good way to spend tax payer dollars?

I'm going to have to ask for some substantiation on the spending of tax payer dollars to teach kids to be rap stars. And I hope that substantiation does not include the introduction of hip hop into the local glee club.

As for retraining Americans, I think vocational training has great benefit, but it has to be kept realistic and a lot depends on the individual in question. We must first and foremost acknowledge that not everyone grows up to be an astronaut. That's hard. I like people. I don't like the fact that we must identify the limits people have demonstrated.

In the workplace, and right now I am strictly speaking about people with jobs, it's necessary to identify an employee's limits in order to give a subordinate a set of tasks that the subordinate can actually accomplish and maybe help them grow. What is the point of assigning a subordinate to a task far outside of their ability to accomplish?

The same holds true for retraining the unemployed. Not everyone can be retrained for every field. It's a harsh reality. Does that mean we abandon them to desperation?

So let's examine an extreme, what would be the point of sending an unemployed person to a four year degree program they don't want and have never demonstrated the capacity to handle? That is an extreme. It denies the individual self-determination and over-estimates their capabilities.

As it so happens, while we on this message board are waxing philosophic on the subject, there are organizations dedicated to realistically retraining people.
Vocational Rehabilitation Services for Persons with Disabilities | Jewish Vocational Service of MetroWest New Jersey (JVS)

Consider this: A man has a good job in auto repair. The man is badly injured in an accident and due to the subsequent physical disability, can work but cannot handle any physically strenuous labor. Now, the far-right demands this person be starved to death for the crime of being crippled. The far-left demands he surrender his free will and that the rest of his life be planned for him. There is an alternative, and people already do it.

During the process of physical rehabilitation, the newly disabled man also goes through "vocation rehabilitation" whereby his skills are assessed and he is found not lacking in the brains department. Some training is invested in him, and he finds he likes staying technical. Some more training is invested in him and he gets a part time gig doing some drafting. He likes it. Some more training is invested in him and he becomes a CAD operator (draftsman). He does well and becomes a technician. Notice the state and the charitable organization are no longer involved. Were they necessary? Yes, absolutely. Can the state get out of his life now that his life is back on track? Yes, absolutely.

There is no one solution to re-employ the unemployed. It's a case-by-case basis sort of thing.

So I'm on vacation a few years back and my parents have judge judy on. There's this guy explaining to the judge the half dozen ways he get's his money to live while remaining at school as an art appreciation major. Guy was a rap singer. Judge admonished him for it.. he was like you guys wanted to give me the money so I take it, ... guy smiles and shrugs showing off his gold caps.


Also for the folks that are not being given free college education and had to take out a loan, if you make sure to get a degree in something that keeps you in welfare, well that's ok cause we'll forgive the loans:

President Obama's Student Loan Forgiveness Program in 2014

 

[sealybobo]

Illegal immigration sure is killing the American middle class. We need to go after the people that hire illegal workers. I can't blame a person for coming here from Mexico because there are high paying jobs waiting for them here. I would go to Canada illegally if there were $200,000 a year jobs there for me. America has two signs on our borders. A small one that says stay out and a big one that says HELP WANTED. We should take away business owners' business' if we find they are hiring illegals. They are traitors to this country. They are ruining America not the Mexican workers coming here to work. Time to start paying Americans American wages and if you can't make a profit paying your employees a living wage then maybe you should go out of business and let smarter people take over the market for your product.

 

[RKMBrown]

I give to charity as well. Your church 'training program' is immaterial and inadequate.

Make up your mind, these training programs are inadequate or necessary which is it again?

I neither worship my government nor wish to tithe, either, but taxes in support of a national Safety Net are a Reality in our present age.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Can you please provide evidence that your training programs do not include the training of immigrants?

Nope.

Maybe you want to start this line of discussion over again with a different either or alternative? IMO the choice is liberty or slavery which do you choose?

But I CAN provide evidence that WIA Training Grant Dollars are intended for (1) US citizens and (2) immigrants who are authorized to work in the US.

Like I said maybe you want to change your earlier either or question. My bad for not looking into these programs earlier, so I didn't know what question to ask.

...and confidence is fairly high that if we dig deeply enough, we'll find that the vast and overwhelming majority of beneficiaries of such training grants are, indeed, US Citizens.
That training money sure-as-hell isn't going to Illegal Aliens.

Your moving the goal posts quite a bit there big guy It's already illegal to hire illegal aliens, so... that whole either or thing appears to be crumbling.

 

[RKMBrown]

We're already ruined

Multiculturalism and not being required to assimilate to become Americans

when we have press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish...I'm just surprised it's not the other way around yet, press 1 for Spanish, 2 for English

I just feel sorry for my children, grandchildren, etc

Heh, used to bother me that some areas in South Florida did not speak a lick of English. Then I learned Spanish

 

[Kondor3]

I give to charity as well. Your church 'training program' is immaterial and inadequate.

Make up your mind, these training programs are inadequate or necessary which is it again?

Your church training program is inadequate.

County-level Workforce Development training programs are adequate and necessary.

I neither worship my government nor wish to tithe, either, but taxes in support of a national Safety Net are a Reality in our present age.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

If you have evidence to present, that taxes used in support of a national Safety Net are NOT part of our Reality, then, by all means, present it.

Barring that, however, you're focusing on what you want, rather than what is.

...Maybe you want to start this line of discussion over again with a different either or alternative? IMO the choice is liberty or slavery which do you choose?...

You get an "A" for Over-Dramatization.

I choose Liberty rather than Slavery.

Paying taxes to support a national Safety Net is not an infringement on my Liberty.

Nor yours.

But I CAN provide evidence that WIA Training Grant Dollars are intended for (1) US citizens and (2) immigrants who are authorized to work in the US.

Like I said maybe you want to change your earlier either or question. My bad for not looking into these programs earlier, so I didn't know what question to ask.

Frankly, I don't see the need to re-phrase.

The core question is: "Should we (1) re-train American workers to fill high-demand jobs or (2) should we continue to lean upon skilled immigrant labor to fill them?"

I vote (1) - retrain the American.

Given that the vast majority of workers receiving WIA grant money are Americans, this particular type of programming seems to fill that bill very nicely, in the main.

...and confidence is fairly high that if we dig deeply enough, we'll find that the vast and overwhelming majority of beneficiaries of such training grants are, indeed, US Citizens. That training money sure-as-hell isn't going to Illegal Aliens.

Your moving the goal posts quite a bit there big guy It's already illegal to hire illegal aliens, so... that whole either or thing appears to be crumbling.

I haven't move the goal posts in the slightest.

The 'illegals' comment was merely an adjunct and ancillary to the main point being made; that the vast majority of WIA job-retraining grant money goes to American citizens.

The either/or thing... Retrain an American for a high-demand job or bring in a skilled Immigrant... is alive and well and as solid as ever.

 

[priceless]

FALSE! Getting rid of migrant competition and raising non-migrant wages as a result is GOOD for the economy.

1. It increases disposable income (and thereby SALES$$$) by $70 Billion/year now being lost to immigrant remittances$$$$$.

2. It increases disposable income (and thereby SALES$$$), by having higher wages $$ in the pockets of higher paid AMERICANS, doing the jobs the immigrant would have been doing.

3. It allows the govt. to hire more people (from the increased taxes being paid in), thereby increasing disposable income (and thereby SALES$$$).

4. It allows the govt. to hire more people from the reduction in welfare $$ spent as well as extra law enforcement $$ spent, education $$ spent, etc, thereby increasing disposable income (and thereby SALES$$$).

5. It reduces the use of scarce resources, reducing, in turn, the expenditures/imports for foreign oil, et al resources, giving the govt more $$ to hire more AMERICANS, thereby creating more consumers to spend money in the stores (AKA "the economy")

Raising wages and/or other input costs of economic production always get factored into pricing. It doesn't matter whether wages are pushed up by the elimination of competition by means of deportations, imprisonment, licensing restrictions, etc. Basically you're taking away lower cost/price options and requiring them to buy more expensive products because those are 'made in America.' This effectively reduces purchasing power and thus devalues incomes and savings.

Whether people work for less to compete with migrant workers or with each other or because they have figured out ways to do more for less and thus can afford to live better with less income, the savings and efficiency they provide gets passed on to investors and the end-consumer.

What you are promoting is an inflationary spiral where higher wages are supposed to generate more spending and taxes and thereby stimulate more economic activity, etc. You may be half right that inflation will cause spending and GDP to go up, which will stimulate more investment, etc. but it's not real growth, just inflation due to a net decrease in the ratio of productivity to money invested/spent.

 

[RKMBrown]

I give to charity as well. Your church 'training program' is immaterial and inadequate.

Make up your mind, these training programs are inadequate or necessary which is it again?

Your church training program is inadequate.

County-level Workforce Development training programs are adequate and necessary.


If you have evidence to present, that taxes used in support of a national Safety Net are NOT part of our Reality, then, by all means, present it.

Barring that, however, you're focusing on what you want, rather than what is.


You get an "A" for Over-Dramatization.

I choose Liberty rather than Slavery.

Paying taxes to support a national Safety Net is not an infringement on my Liberty.

Nor yours.


Frankly, I don't see the need to re-phrase.

The core question is: "Should we (1) re-train American workers to fill high-demand jobs or (2) should we continue to lean upon skilled immigrant labor to fill them?"

I vote (1) - retrain the American.

Given that the vast majority of workers receiving WIA grant money are Americans, this particular type of programming seems to fill that bill very nicely, in the main.

...and confidence is fairly high that if we dig deeply enough, we'll find that the vast and overwhelming majority of beneficiaries of such training grants are, indeed, US Citizens. That training money sure-as-hell isn't going to Illegal Aliens.

Your moving the goal posts quite a bit there big guy It's already illegal to hire illegal aliens, so... that whole either or thing appears to be crumbling.

I haven't move the goal posts in the slightest.

The 'illegals' comment was merely an adjunct and ancillary to the main point being made; that the vast majority of WIA job-retraining grant money goes to American citizens.

The either/or thing... Retrain an American for a high-demand job or bring in a skilled Immigrant... is alive and well and as solid as ever.

Make up your mind either we have to live with where we are or we can change things. Which is it? The current situation is we are bringing in cheap labor via immigration. There is no either or, there is only both and both suck to the people who have done the right things in life. It sucks to the people who are being punished via cheap immigrants brought in to replace American workers, and it sucks to the same American workers who are also being punished by being forced to fund the training for fresh out American workers who will come in to take their jobs at entry level salaries.

Either way American workers who have worked hard their whole lives are being effed over by our Government at the benefit of corporations who prefer to hire cheap inexperienced labor over more expensive experienced labor. But hey, you just keep on pretending that what you are doing to me is good for me.

 

[Kondor3]

...Make up your mind either we have to live with where we are or we can change things. Which is it?...

My suggestion that it is better to train American workers to fill high-demand jobs rather than hiring foreigners, presents us with no such dilemma.

My suggestion also has the added happy effect of cutting the Gordian Knot of dependence upon Welfare for those who complete such re-training and find new jobs.

We re-employ an American, and we get an American off of Welfare. Win-Win.

...The current situation is we are bringing in cheap labor via immigration...

Correct. This is one of the things that needs to change; with employers guided into a mode of behavior in which they will be obliged to exhaust all possible domestic labor solutions before going to the outside.

...There is no either or, there is only both and both suck to the people who have done the right things in life...

Correct. This is one of the things that needs to change, as we shift to a much greater emphasis upon domestic labor solutions and re-training to support that.

...It sucks to the people who are being punished via cheap immigrants brought in to replace American workers...

Yes it does.

If you are in a role which is so easily supplanted by entry-level talent, then you may be overpaid for what you are doing.

I suggest re-training.

...and it sucks to the same American workers who are also being punished by being forced to fund the training for fresh out American workers who will come in to take their jobs at entry level salaries...

Yes it does.

If you are in a role which is so easily supplanted by entry-level talent, then you may be overpaid for what you are doing.

I suggest re-training.

...Either way American workers who have worked hard their whole lives are being effed over by our Government at the benefit of corporations who prefer to hire cheap inexperienced labor over more expensive experienced labor...

Perhaps you should have worked 'smart' as well as 'hard'?

Positioning yourself high-enough-up on the food chain so that you were not vulnerable to the ankle-biters at the bottom?

You tell us on the one hand that Immigration is the lifeblood of the country.

You tell us on the other hand that cheap-labor immigrants are killing you-and-yours.

There seems to be something rather contradictory in all of that.

Most folks manage to get past the bottom rungs in their careers after a while.

Those who don't must contend most frequently and most bitterly with newcomers - be they hired foreigners or re-trained Americans.

I have no doubt that you have worked hard throughout your career.

It also seems evident that you are close enough to the bottom rungs to be threatened by hired foreigners or re-trained American rookies.

That's a Bad Place to be in, if true.

...But hey, you just keep on pretending that what you are doing to me is good for me.

"The greatest Good, for the greatest Number."

"The needs of the Many outweigh the needs of the One."

If it makes more sense to continue (and expand upon) re-training Americans, to do high-demand jobs, rather than hire foreigners, in order to get those Americans off Welfare, and if far more people are benefitted than are harmed, then, that is what we will do.

Sometimes, one has to make the "tough calls".

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

Yes paths to citizenship are better than temporary employment meant to displace American labor.

When I said I did not know any unemployed engineers I meant unemployed in the larger sense. To elaborate further: I know great Engineers who are now selling houses, filing patents, teaching as a professor, making videos for weddings, practicing law, practicing as a physician, managing people, semi-retired (early retirement), living as an ex-Patriot in another country, .... I would estimate well over half of the best of the best of my Engineer friends are no longer employed as Engineers in a full time engineering job. They have been effectively chased off to other more profitable and/or stable careers.

Interesting. No one ever got rich by trading time for money, so I can understand why people would seek greener pastures. I can understand how operating a CAD tool or pressing a compile button for someone else's profit gets old after about thirty years of age. I don't think someone who has moved into management or marketing within their same industry has left engineering, nor do I think anyone from engineering who gets bit by the entrepreneurial bug actually leaves engineering. But I digress.

So in your experience there is a lack of demand for STEM graduates in this country. Okay. Could there be some over-aggregation whereby apples are compared to oranges, as opposed to accusing anyone of lying, that could explain a very different testimonial from a different person?

I'll answer that (when you ask it in plain, intelligible English)

That was plain, intelligible English.

Let's break down the question. Here is the original question, in full context:
So in your [RKMBrown] experience there is a lack of demand for STEM graduates in this country. [restating the premise because that's what RKMBrown seemed, to me, to be saying, and thus giving RKMBrown a chance to clarify.] Okay. Could there be some over-aggregation whereby apples are compared to oranges, as opposed to accusing anyone of lying [stated because RKMBrown seemed, to me, to state that his testimony was the truth and all else was not truth.] , that could explain a very different testimonial from a different person?

The actual question part of that is in bold.

Could there be some over-aggregation whereby apples are compared to oranges, as opposed to accusing anyone of lying, that could explain a very different testimonial from a different person?

Let's start with "over-aggregation"

ag·gre·ga·tion noun \ˌa-gri-ˈgā-shən\

Definition of AGGREGATION

1
: a group, body, or mass composed of many distinct parts or individuals
2
a : the collecting of units or parts into a mass or whole
b : the condition of being so collected

So, the "over-aggregation of data" is when data is aggregated into a group so coarse as to be vague or just plain inaccurate, hence the apples to oranges comment.

So, if two testimonials on the state of the STEM job market conflict, is someone necessarily lying, or is this concept of "the [ definitive article ] STEM job market" simply over-aggregated. Should that article be so definitive?

Plain enough?

 

[Indeependent]

Interesting. No one ever got rich by trading time for money, so I can understand why people would seek greener pastures. I can understand how operating a CAD tool or pressing a compile button for someone else's profit gets old after about thirty years of age. I don't think someone who has moved into management or marketing within their same industry has left engineering, nor do I think anyone from engineering who gets bit by the entrepreneurial bug actually leaves engineering. But I digress.

So in your experience there is a lack of demand for STEM graduates in this country. Okay. Could there be some over-aggregation whereby apples are compared to oranges, as opposed to accusing anyone of lying, that could explain a very different testimonial from a different person?

I'll answer that (when you ask it in plain, intelligible English)

That was plain, intelligible English.

Let's break down the question. Here is the original question, in full context:
So in your [RKMBrown] experience there is a lack of demand for STEM graduates in this country. [restating the premise because that's what RKMBrown seemed, to me, to be saying, and thus giving RKMBrown a chance to clarify.] Okay. Could there be some over-aggregation whereby apples are compared to oranges, as opposed to accusing anyone of lying [stated because RKMBrown seemed, to me, to state that his testimony was the truth and all else was not truth.] , that could explain a very different testimonial from a different person?

The actual question part of that is in bold.

Could there be some over-aggregation whereby apples are compared to oranges, as opposed to accusing anyone of lying, that could explain a very different testimonial from a different person?

Let's start with "over-aggregation"

ag·gre·ga·tion noun \ˌa-gri-ˈgā-shən\

Definition of AGGREGATION

1
: a group, body, or mass composed of many distinct parts or individuals
2
a : the collecting of units or parts into a mass or whole
b : the condition of being so collected

So, the "over-aggregation of data" is when data is aggregated into a group so coarse as to be vague or just plain inaccurate, hence the apples to oranges comment.

So, if two testimonials on the state of the STEM job market conflict, is someone necessarily lying, or is this concept of "the [ definitive article ] STEM job market" simply over-aggregated. Should that article be so definitive?

Plain enough?

Someone is lying.
Americans are replaced by H1-Bs of inferior status.

Or to state it CLEARLY...
Exactly WHICH skills do Americans not possess?
Be precise...
Database skills, for instance, Oracle? DB2? SQL Server?
Oh, excuse me, we need version 000000000002 and you've only worked with version 000000000001.
What bullshit.

Again...
Exactly WHICH skills do Americans not possess?

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

So I'm on vacation a few years back and my parents have judge judy on. There's this guy explaining to the judge the half dozen ways he get's his money to live while remaining at school as an art appreciation major. Guy was a rap singer. Judge admonished him for it.. he was like you guys wanted to give me the money so I take it, ... guy smiles and shrugs showing off his gold caps.


Also for the folks that are not being given free college education and had to take out a loan, if you make sure to get a degree in something that keeps you in welfare, well that's ok cause we'll forgive the loans:

President Obama's Student Loan Forgiveness Program in 2014

Judge Judy... C'mon RKMBrown, that's like forming an opinion on policy based on something you saw on the Jerry Springer show.

Furthermore, "www.forgetstudentloandebt.com" is not a website published by the US Government. Here are the whois stats:
Forgetstudentloandebt.com WHOIS Domain Lookup
Says Panama... so... Somebody in Panama is hosting a webpage for somebody who really doesn't like student loan debt and would like to forget it?

In any case, we're getting off topic. The topic is immigration. I like the idea of granting citizenship to smart enterprising people in STEM fields, and other skilled labor, and inviting them to help us bring about another American Century in this 21st Century.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

That was plain, intelligible English.

Let's break down the question. Here is the original question, in full context:
So in your [RKMBrown] experience there is a lack of demand for STEM graduates in this country. [restating the premise because that's what RKMBrown seemed, to me, to be saying, and thus giving RKMBrown a chance to clarify.] Okay. Could there be some over-aggregation whereby apples are compared to oranges, as opposed to accusing anyone of lying [stated because RKMBrown seemed, to me, to state that his testimony was the truth and all else was not truth.] , that could explain a very different testimonial from a different person?

The actual question part of that is in bold.

Could there be some over-aggregation whereby apples are compared to oranges, as opposed to accusing anyone of lying, that could explain a very different testimonial from a different person?

Let's start with "over-aggregation"

ag·gre·ga·tion noun \ˌa-gri-ˈgā-shən\

Definition of AGGREGATION

1
: a group, body, or mass composed of many distinct parts or individuals
2
a : the collecting of units or parts into a mass or whole
b : the condition of being so collected

So, the "over-aggregation of data" is when data is aggregated into a group so coarse as to be vague or just plain inaccurate, hence the apples to oranges comment.

So, if two testimonials on the state of the STEM job market conflict, is someone necessarily lying, or is this concept of "the [ definitive article ] STEM job market" simply over-aggregated. Should that article be so definitive?

Plain enough?

Someone is lying.
Americans are replaced by H1-Bs of inferior status.

Or to state it CLEARLY...
Exactly WHICH skills do Americans not possess?
Be precise...
Database skills, for instance, Oracle? DB2? SQL Server?
Oh, excuse me, we need version 000000000002 and you've only worked with version 000000000001.
What bullshit.

Again...
Exactly WHICH skills do Americans not possess?

I am sorry you are unemployed.

That you are unemployed and have decided to blame brown people does not give you the right to shout at me. That you are unemployed may be due to the fact that you are over-impressed with your ability to recite a few well known database sever product families (DB2? Really?). I would recommend you diversify your skill set. Problem solving as an ability is not shown through specialization but rather through versatility. During the interview process, I would recommend you speak as little as possible such that you do not reveal your limited ability to engage in a complex conversation; that limit being demonstrated by neither making positive contributions nor providing feedback on the contributions of others that is at least germane let alone constructive. Because I do not know you and your behavior has been less than professional, I cannot give you jobseeking advice that is any more specific.

I wish you success in the future.

 

[Indeependent]

That was plain, intelligible English.

Let's break down the question. Here is the original question, in full context:
So in your [RKMBrown] experience there is a lack of demand for STEM graduates in this country. [restating the premise because that's what RKMBrown seemed, to me, to be saying, and thus giving RKMBrown a chance to clarify.] Okay. Could there be some over-aggregation whereby apples are compared to oranges, as opposed to accusing anyone of lying [stated because RKMBrown seemed, to me, to state that his testimony was the truth and all else was not truth.] , that could explain a very different testimonial from a different person?

The actual question part of that is in bold.

Could there be some over-aggregation whereby apples are compared to oranges, as opposed to accusing anyone of lying, that could explain a very different testimonial from a different person?

Let's start with "over-aggregation"

ag·gre·ga·tion noun \ˌa-gri-ˈgā-shən\

Definition of AGGREGATION

1
: a group, body, or mass composed of many distinct parts or individuals
2
a : the collecting of units or parts into a mass or whole
b : the condition of being so collected

So, the "over-aggregation of data" is when data is aggregated into a group so coarse as to be vague or just plain inaccurate, hence the apples to oranges comment.

So, if two testimonials on the state of the STEM job market conflict, is someone necessarily lying, or is this concept of "the [ definitive article ] STEM job market" simply over-aggregated. Should that article be so definitive?

Plain enough?

Someone is lying.
Americans are replaced by H1-Bs of inferior status.

Or to state it CLEARLY...
Exactly WHICH skills do Americans not possess?
Be precise...
Database skills, for instance, Oracle? DB2? SQL Server?
Oh, excuse me, we need version 000000000002 and you've only worked with version 000000000001.
What bullshit.

Again...
Exactly WHICH skills do Americans not possess?

I am sorry you are unemployed.

That you are unemployed and have decided to blame brown people does not give you the right to shout at me. That you are unemployed may be due to the fact that you are over-impressed with your ability to recite a few well known database sever product families (DB2? Really?). I would recommend you diversify your skill set. Problem solving as an ability is not shown through specialization but rather through versatility. During the interview process, I would recommend you speak as little as possible such that you do not reveal your limited ability to engage in a complex conversation; that limit being demonstrated by neither making positive contributions nor providing feedback on the contributions of others that is at least germane let alone constructive. Because I do not know you and your behavior has been less than professional, I cannot give you jobseeking advice that is any more specific.

I wish you success in the future.

I'm employed, not in computers and doing rather well, thank you.
You are simply gaining in one way or another from business visas.
I have worked with many of these Indian "geniuses" in the past and there's a reason a project in the average corporation takes multiple years to complete.
I have too many stories of MBAs who have a trail of failed projects behind them due to the "Best & The Brightest".


And if you can't tell from my postings that I am of above average intelligence, you must be either an egomaniac, a business visa yourself or a business person who is profiting from cheap labor.

It's a good laugh when a jackass judges one's professional demeanor from an anonymous message board.

Who's the a$$ now?

 

[Unkotare]

We're already ruined

Multiculturalism and not being required to assimilate to become Americans

when we have press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish...I'm just surprised it's not the other way around yet, press 1 for Spanish, 2 for English

I just feel sorry for my children, grandchildren, etc

Today's LEGAL immigrants continue to assimilate just fine. It's home-grown leftist busy-bodies who are trying to push segregation and isolation (as the democrat party always has). As for "press 1, press 2," if a private business chooses to cater to a certain customer base that's their choice.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

Someone is lying.
Americans are replaced by H1-Bs of inferior status.

Or to state it CLEARLY...
Exactly WHICH skills do Americans not possess?
Be precise...
Database skills, for instance, Oracle? DB2? SQL Server?
Oh, excuse me, we need version 000000000002 and you've only worked with version 000000000001.
What bullshit.

Again...
Exactly WHICH skills do Americans not possess?

I am sorry you are unemployed.

That you are unemployed and have decided to blame brown people does not give you the right to shout at me. That you are unemployed may be due to the fact that you are over-impressed with your ability to recite a few well known database sever product families (DB2? Really?). I would recommend you diversify your skill set. Problem solving as an ability is not shown through specialization but rather through versatility. During the interview process, I would recommend you speak as little as possible such that you do not reveal your limited ability to engage in a complex conversation; that limit being demonstrated by neither making positive contributions nor providing feedback on the contributions of others that is at least germane let alone constructive. Because I do not know you and your behavior has been less than professional, I cannot give you jobseeking advice that is any more specific.

I wish you success in the future.

I'm employed, not in computers and doing rather well, thank you.

Right, because lumping "database servers" into the catch-all term "computers" is by no means a humorous instance of over-aggregation. Even more humorous is that,albeit from ignorance, this is the first time you've said something germane to the post to which you responded.

You are simply gaining in one way or another from business visas.

Nice attempt to introduce a topic with which you have more familiarity, but the conversation was on STEM.
H-1B visa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have worked with many of these Indian "geniuses" in the past and there's a reason a project in the average corporation takes multiple years to complete.
I have too many stories of MBAs who have a trail of failed projects behind them due to the "Best & The Brightest".

Nice! Appealing to both Spite and Fear! Double Points!

And if you can't tell from my postings that I am of above average intelligence,

I have no reference for "average" nor any basis to gauge you relative to that reference.

you must be either an egomaniac, a business visa yourself or a business person who is profiting from cheap labor.

Wow. No other possibilities. Right.

It's a good laugh when a jackass judges one's professional demeanor from an anonymous message board.

Actually, your conduct says a lot about you. You specifically say "anonymous message board" and explicitly state that this anonymity changes your behavior. You just said exactly that. Do you lack the courage to say what you mean when not protected by anonymity? Have you come on to the board to troll for lulz because you are protected by anonymity? It's a very telling statement on your part.

Who's the a$$ now?

Wow. Ya got me. Yeah. Okay, you won the internet. You can go now.