Income equality bull shit.

[Luddly Neddite]

 

[1776]

It is in the best interest of the state to make investment by rich people worth their while compared to taxing and regulating them to death where they end up moving away or hoarding their money (see NY).

Lowering the income tax rate and capital gains rate stimulates the economy when the opportunity cost of hoarding that money is greater than investing it to make even more money. Rich people want to get richer so making sure they feel they will make a profit while creating more jobs and wealth for society is good for the state because that means more tax revenue in the end.

Stupid fuck liberals believe taking from the makers to give to the takers somehow creates more wealth. Eventually the system collapses when the makers quit making and there is nothing left to take.

Didn't you stupid fuck liberals watch the cartoon movie "Bee?" It was made for your inferior brains to show you the bees being forced to gather for the grasshoppers eventually screwed the grasshoppers in the end when the Bees quit working for them.

 

[PredFan]

While we should have equality of opportunity (and we do), no one has a right to equality of outcome. The outcome of your opportunity is entirely up to you.

We get it. Unequal outcomes (more success = more money) incentivizes the very excellence which lifts all boats through innovation and job creation. This is how we cure cancer - by rewarding excellence. If a scientist and a janitor made the same money, we'd still be the dark ages - and everyone's standard of living would be lower. What sets capitalism apart from other economic models is that it gets incentives right (-unlike socialism, which fails to tap into human motivation)
.
Nobody is arguing against this stuff that we all learned in 3rd grade. Say something new or interesting.

I think the argument is that there is unequal access to opportunity, which results in unequal outcomes. Government policies protect owners by having trade policies that allow capitalists to shop the globe for cheaper labor, but, on the other hand, they enjoy tremendous protectionism from the nanny government. American workers have to compete with sweatshops in Taiwan, but the US government crushes foreign drug competition, thus giving Ely Lilly and its investors monopoly power. The government, because it is owned by the wealthiest market players who fund our elections, actively intervenes in the market to help the wealthy. This why Wall Street, which owns both parties, made trillions in profits off a securities-&-derivative scheme that sank the global economy in 2008 - because the government makes sure that money flows upward, even when it sinks all boats.

Contrary to the OPs very tired strawman, the argument isn't about equality or any of that silly lefty garbage. Our problem is that capitalism's desire for lower operating costs (which resulted in shifting production to freedom hating parts of the developing world) has left the US consumption economy with too few solvent consumers. During the postwar years we had the highest paid labor force in history. As a result of all the spending money in middle-class wallets, the capitalist had an incentive to innovate and add jobs, so he could go after all of that money. The result was massive demand-fueled job growth.

But Reagan, exploiting the 70s oil shock, convinced us that our high wage system was stifling growth - so we spent the last 30 years shifting jobs to freedom hating nations and driving down American wages. To make up for the loss in wages/benefits, we aggressively expanded credit to the middle class so they could consume and survive in the face of falling wages and slashed benefits. [You get this right. Our largest employer, Walmart, doesn't pay its workers enough to survive, much less consume at the needed levels to sustain Main Street job growth] And it worked great for a coupled decades. But eventually the great middle class consumer was (is) to indebted to consume sufficiently in the aggregate to fuel job growth. And now we're fucked, because our only policy tool, tax breaks for the wealthy, won't change the fact that no jobs will be added until consumers can buy what is produced. You can call this whatever you want, but the problem isn't about equality. It's about a system which doesn't pay its workers enough to buy what they produce. It's counter to Henry Ford's logic of paying the worker more so he can buy the cars he makes - otherwise, we have to feed the worker credit in order to buy the car . . . and that always ends badly.

In other words. We swallowed poison in 1980.

None of that takes opportunity away. Even if I believed any of that garbage.

 

[Truthmatters]

It is in the best interest of the state to make investment by rich people worth their while compared to taxing and regulating them to death where they end up moving away or hoarding their money (see NY).

Lowering the income tax rate and capital gains rate stimulates the economy when the opportunity cost of hoarding that money is greater than investing it to make even more money. Rich people want to get richer so making sure they feel they will make a profit while creating more jobs and wealth for society is good for the state because that means more tax revenue in the end.

Stupid fuck liberals believe taking from the makers to give to the takers somehow creates more wealth. Eventually the system collapses when the makers quit making and there is nothing left to take.

Didn't you stupid fuck liberals watch the cartoon movie "Bee?" It was made for your inferior brains to show you the bees being forced to gather for the grasshoppers eventually screwed the grasshoppers in the end when the Bees quit working for them.

the facts don't support your bullshit

 

[Truthmatters]

Laffer doesn't even agree with you ass slime

 

[1776]

I'm surprised your stupid ass hasn't choked on a glass of water yet....

It is in the best interest of the state to make investment by rich people worth their while compared to taxing and regulating them to death where they end up moving away or hoarding their money (see NY).

Lowering the income tax rate and capital gains rate stimulates the economy when the opportunity cost of hoarding that money is greater than investing it to make even more money. Rich people want to get richer so making sure they feel they will make a profit while creating more jobs and wealth for society is good for the state because that means more tax revenue in the end.

Stupid fuck liberals believe taking from the makers to give to the takers somehow creates more wealth. Eventually the system collapses when the makers quit making and there is nothing left to take.

Didn't you stupid fuck liberals watch the cartoon movie "Bee?" It was made for your inferior brains to show you the bees being forced to gather for the grasshoppers eventually screwed the grasshoppers in the end when the Bees quit working for them.

the facts don't support your bullshit

 

[IlarMeilyr]

tderpm: what you comprehend about matters of economics couldn't fill a dimple in a thimble.

You empty minded pre-programmed robotic idiot laughable lolberals can't even begin to grasp any of the things said by Milton Friedman. Thus, you are perpetually unable to refute what he said. You cannot even begin the process of beginning to debate it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Did you ever consider the possibility that you are the one looking down on them?

 

[KNB]

1% job creators aren't creating any jobs. Don't you Republicans remember how you hate Obama because he hasn't lowered the unemployment rate? Does the government create jobs? Where are all of those jobs that the 1% job creators are creating?

That's right, Republicans. Those jobs are in China. Doesn't do much good for American workers, does it? So if American workers can't find any decent jobs because the 1% job creators are creating all of the jobs in China, what can American workers do to make a living for themselves? Fast food at minimum wage? That's not enough to keep up with the price of everything in the US. Artificially inflated prices on everything from toilet paper to gasoline eat into most working families' meager budgets, and then the 1% pile on massive medical bills if Americans should ever get sick or injured. All of that puts more people on the government dole which in turn puts more burden on society.

But just tell yourself that it's all just libturd propaganda and go back to thinking that trickle-down economics works even while nothing is trickling down.

 

[Mustang]

Not only is much of your argument bull shit, it is irrelevant as well. Even if I accepted what you are saying, it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that opportunity is there and that it is entirely up to you whether you take it or not.

We were not talking about whether or not opportunity was there and whether or not a person avails himself of that opportunity if it's available. The issue was the OUTCOME of that opportunity.

I can virtually guarantee you that if two people with similar products go to Capitol Hill, and one brings along some campaign contributions, and the second person just brings along a prospectus and literature extolling the virtues of their product, the first person stands a far better chance at getting favorable legislation and/or tax exemptions than the second person even if the second person has a superior product.

Then you agree, the problem is government, not capitalism.

It's neither government nor capitalism, per se. It's the way the system is currently structured and operating. What's happened is that corporations have found a way to seek and gain advantage and preferential treatment. The politicians and our system of gov't have been compromised as a result. What needs to happen is the the laws and regulations need to be updated AND enforced to put an end to the current system of financing political campaigns.

But the people in power in gov't, and the people who run our most powerful special interests who benefit from the current system have been and will continue to block any changes. That's why people need to vote incumbents out of office, regardless of party affiliation. Until that's done, and until the single greatest determining factor on who wins an election is no longer who raises and spends the most money (including soft money), the system will continue to be corrupt. What that means is that decisions will continue to be made not based on what's best for the country as a whole or what's best for a majority of the people, but what's best for the people who can afford to pay to get what they want.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I understand we have a small percentage of our population that controls a major portion of our wealth and income

I have no desire to try to take away that wealth, but as a taxpayer, I question why we should continue policies that only serve to add to that wealth

Which "wealth adding policies" should we end?

 

[Londoner]

Here's the Cliff Notes:

When suppliers don't have sufficient incentive to invest, because of punitive taxes/regulations, than they don't invest and the economy dies.

When workers don't make enough to consume, because of low wages/benefits and a host of other factors, than they don't buy enough and the economy dies.

FOX News bumper stickers about the evils of socialism and equality don't fix the above problems. Those bumper stickers were designed to agitate stupid people, so they would send the same morons back to Washington . . . so the current system and all its benefactors survive.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

1% job creators aren't creating any jobs. Don't you Republicans remember how you hate Obama because he hasn't lowered the unemployment rate? Does the government create jobs? Where are all of those jobs that the 1% job creators are creating?

That's right, Republicans. Those jobs are in China. Doesn't do much good for American workers, does it? So if American workers can't find any decent jobs because the 1% job creators are creating all of the jobs in China, what can American workers do to make a living for themselves? Fast food at minimum wage? That's not enough to keep up with the price of everything in the US. Artificially inflated prices on everything from toilet paper to gasoline eat into most working families' meager budgets, and then the 1% pile on massive medical bills if Americans should ever get sick or injured. All of that puts more people on the government dole which in turn puts more burden on society.

But just tell yourself that it's all just libturd propaganda and go back to thinking that trickle-down economics works even while nothing is trickling down.

Those jobs are in China.

We should add more regulations, that always helps job growth.

 

[realinvestment]

1% job creators aren't creating any jobs.

When you say 1% aren't creating any jobs, what about some one like this? History

The owners of this business had about 25 employees only ten years ago. They spent millions to build a new plant and now they employ over 100 people.

A business like this pays higher than average wages, they are all Americans, and they don't get the tax breaks available to multinational corporations. Instead they pay lots of taxes.

 

[1776]

The crazy mind of a liberal on display.

Yeah......it's rich "Republicans" that took their money and jobs to China, it could never be Democraps like say the ones running Apple. Democraps would never get in bed with the Chinese, uh see the Clintons.

Of course, high taxes and regulation by Democraps had nothing to do with some rich people taking their money somewhere else....nah.

1% job creators aren't creating any jobs. Don't you Republicans remember how you hate Obama because he hasn't lowered the unemployment rate? Does the government create jobs? Where are all of those jobs that the 1% job creators are creating?

That's right, Republicans. Those jobs are in China. Doesn't do much good for American workers, does it? So if American workers can't find any decent jobs because the 1% job creators are creating all of the jobs in China, what can American workers do to make a living for themselves? Fast food at minimum wage? That's not enough to keep up with the price of everything in the US. Artificially inflated prices on everything from toilet paper to gasoline eat into most working families' meager budgets, and then the 1% pile on massive medical bills if Americans should ever get sick or injured. All of that puts more people on the government dole which in turn puts more burden on society.

But just tell yourself that it's all just libturd propaganda and go back to thinking that trickle-down economics works even while nothing is trickling down.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

We were not talking about whether or not opportunity was there and whether or not a person avails himself of that opportunity if it's available. The issue was the OUTCOME of that opportunity.

I can virtually guarantee you that if two people with similar products go to Capitol Hill, and one brings along some campaign contributions, and the second person just brings along a prospectus and literature extolling the virtues of their product, the first person stands a far better chance at getting favorable legislation and/or tax exemptions than the second person even if the second person has a superior product.

Then you agree, the problem is government, not capitalism.

It's neither government nor capitalism, per se. It's the way the system is currently structured and operating. What's happened is that corporations have found a way to seek and gain advantage and preferential treatment. The politicians and our system of gov't have been compromised as a result. What needs to happen is the the laws and regulations need to be updated AND enforced to put an end to the current system of financing political campaigns.

But the people in power in gov't, and the people who run our most powerful special interests who benefit from the current system have been and will continue to block any changes. That's why people need to vote incumbents out of office, regardless of party affiliation. Until that's done, and until the single greatest determining factor on who wins an election is no longer who raises and spends the most money (including soft money), the system will continue to be corrupt. What that means is that decisions will continue to be made not based on what's best for the country as a whole or what's best for a majority of the people, but what's best for the people who can afford to pay to get what they want.

Stop reversing cause and effect.

The government has found a way to extort money from corporations by granting favors.

 

[1776]

Oh yeah dumbfuck....FOXNews is to blame.

FYI...it is in a company's best interest to pay their employees the wage they deserve to keep them happy and working hard for the company unless they have them in a slave situation like in China or India.

I don't recall McDonalds in NYC being a slave situation, please tell. Oh, nobody is forcing them to live in NYC and work at McDs....

Here's the Cliff Notes:

When suppliers don't have sufficient incentive to invest, because of punitive taxes/regulations, than they don't invest and the economy dies.

When workers don't make enough to consume, because of low wages/benefits and a host of other factors, than they don't buy enough and the economy dies.

FOX News bumper stickers about the evils of socialism and equality don't fix the above problems. Those bumper stickers were designed to agitate stupid people, so they would send the same morons back to Washington . . . so the current system and all its benefactors survive.

 

[PredFan]

Here's the Cliff Notes:

When suppliers don't have sufficient incentive to invest, because of punitive taxes/regulations, than they don't invest and the economy dies.

When workers don't make enough to consume, because of low wages/benefits and a host of other factors, than they don't buy enough and the economy dies.

FOX News bumper stickers about the evils of socialism and equality don't fix the above problems. Those bumper stickers were designed to agitate stupid people, so they would send the same morons back to Washington . . . so the current system and all its benefactors survive.

No one can stop consuming and the poor certainly don't. It's part of the reason that they are still poor.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I understand we have a small percentage of our population that controls a major portion of our wealth and income

I have no desire to try to take away that wealth, but as a taxpayer, I question why we should continue policies that only serve to add to that wealth

which policies are those and which party put them in place?

Glad you asked....

Lets start with why Capital Gains are taxed at a lower rate than labor is

If one man works all year digging ditches for $25,000 and another makes $25,000 by clicking a mouse on a computer.....why does the Ditch Digger pay more in taxes?

The guy clicking the mouse had to invest real money, with a risk of loss, to make that $25,000.
The ditch digger, if he's single, has a personal exemption of $3900 and a standard deduction of $6100.
He's paying $1803.75/$25000, or 7.215%.
The nasty mouse clicker is paying 15%, more if it was a short term capital gain.

 

[impalero]

Money is Power

The more power you have, the more choices you have at your disposal to take advantage of opportunities as they arise.

The Bankers along with the Big Multinational Corporations that own both parties lobbied for the Foreign Economic Policies we have today with China, Mexico and so on in order to fatten their portfolios at this nations expense.


Top Contributors to Barack Obama | OpenSecrets

Top Contributors to Obama

Goldman Sachs $1,034,615
JPMorgan Chase & Co $847,895
Citigroup Inc $755,057
US Government $638,335
Skadden, Arps et al $554,439
US Dept of Justice $540,636
IBM Corp $534,470
UBS AG $534,166
General Electric $532,031
Morgan Stanley $528,182



Top Contributors to Mitt Romney | OpenSecrets

Top Contributors to Romney

Goldman Sachs $1,033,204
Bank of America $1,013,402
Morgan Stanley $911,305
JPMorgan Chase & Co $834,096
Wells Fargo $677,076
Credit Suisse Group $643,120
Citigroup Inc $511,199
Barclays $446,000
General Electric $332,875


The Multinational Corporations must love Communism because in Communist China, the average person does not have any Freedoms or Rights to fight back the poisoning of their rivers or slave labor they are subjected to.

In a Corporation, you have no rights, you do as your told.
Is it not ironic with Wall Street + Government + Big Corporations that are in bed together are turning this country into a Police State to serve them and they do not want to the citizens to have any freedoms or rights like Communistic China?

As a consequence, in a Rigged Global Economy spearheaded by the Banksters, American's wages on the open market have declined or remained stagnant.

If the wages had continued to rise with inflation, would we have had a housing bubble or healthcare crisis since those are things that cannot be sent to China?

Suffice to say, with declining incomes and rising house prices and rising medical costs, it was unsustainable and the market correction wanted to bring house prices and medical costs down.

We have a hundred years of data where the average house price to median income has been 2.5X until the bankers created their fraudulent derivative schemes and lobbied government to relax their lending standards.

The Banksters on Wall Street had a lot to lose though so they demanded a Bail Out from the Tax Payers and still continue to this day with QE Infinity and are keeping housing prices propped up.

That takes away more power from the average American since more of their income is going toward housing.


That brings us to the increase in income inequality. The Bankers, CEO's and elites welcomed "Free Trade" when there were profits to be made but
don't want to accept responsibility and take a cut in pay like every other American for their disastrous policies they passed off to their cronies in DC.

Instead, they have attacked everyone below them to pay for their mistakes and to take a cut in pay. Unions and Middle Class Americans come to mind.

Politicians in DC don't read the stuff anyways. They accept the bribe money then pass the bills it to see what is in it.

The Income Inequality comes not from Engineers and Doctors vs Middle and Lower Class Americans, but from Wall Street Investors and Bankers against everyone else.
The same Wall Street being propped up by Big Government for the last 30 years.

Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%
An Investment Manager's View on the Top 1%

The Upper Half of the Top 1%

Membership in this elite group is likely to come from being involved in some aspect of the financial services or banking industry, real estate development involved with those industries, or government contracting.

Some hard working and clever physicians and attorneys can acquire as much as $15M-$20M before retirement but they are rare. Those in the top 0.5% have incomes over $500k if working and a net worth over $1.8M if retired.

The higher we go up into the top 0.5% the more likely it is that their wealth is in some way tied to the investment industry and borrowed money than from personally selling goods or services or labor as do most in the bottom 99.5%.

They are much more likely to have built their net worth from stock options and capital gains in stocks and real estate and private business sales, not from income which is taxed at a much higher rate. These opportunities are largely unavailable to the bottom 99.5%.

Recently, I spoke with a younger client who retired from a major investment bank in her early thirties, net worth around $8M. We can estimate that she had to earn somewhere around twice that, or $14M-$16M, in order to keep $8M after taxes and live well along the way, an impressive accomplishment by such an early age.

Since I knew she held a critical view of investment banking, I asked if her colleagues talked about or understood how much damage was created in the broader economy from their activities. Her answer was that no one talks about it in public but almost all understood and were unbelievably cynical, hoping to exit the system when they became rich enough.

As it is now, the condition this country is in is because of the top rich elite, not the Middle and Lower Class American's since they do not have the political nor monetary power like these people do.
The answer is to BOOT the Bankers and Lobbyists out of DC and send them to Hell where they belong.

Bring back the power to the people of this country in local governments and local economies rather than concentrated at the top in DC.

The Preamble to the Constitution States:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention our country is supposed to be run for the shareholders and by the shareholders on Wall Street. The Big Banks are supposed to be a tool for the benefit of the entire nation, via loans and so on and instead the tool has become a means in itself to enrich the few at the expense to the many.

The Government is supposed to serve the best interest of ALL Citizens and they are not doing that.

Here is a list of the top Lobbyists and notice the power of the worker is near the bottom.


Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

Misc Business $5,815,757,543
Health $5,760,020,799
Finance/Insur/RealEst $5,738,003,937
Communic/Electronics $4,730,941,613
Energy/Nat Resource $4,268,300,046
Other $3,076,689,869
Transportation $2,947,569,032
Ideology/Single-Issue $1,894,591,537
Agribusiness $1,736,175,743
Defense $1,654,187,912
Construction $631,315,233
Labor $573,322,887
Lawyers & Lobbyists $408,016,748