Income equality bull shit.

[Redfish]

Certain types of discrimination yes, but not all.

Opportunity will always be based on money because providing opportunity to children will always be valued by parents.

Not in the least bit true. Many many people have gained wealth for themselves and started with nothing.

I am sorry but do you think you actually made a logical argument there? The fact you presented does not logically negate what I said but you acted like it did.

WTF?

So what is your solution, take everyones money and wealth and have the govt divide it up "equally" ? WTF is it that you want ?

 

[PredFan]

Certain types of discrimination yes, but not all.

Opportunity will always be based on money because providing opportunity to children will always be valued by parents.

Not in the least bit true. Many many people have gained wealth for themselves and started with nothing.

I am sorry but do you think you actually made a logical argument there? The fact you presented does not logically negate what I said but you acted like it did.

WTF?

Do you not understand what you post? Is it just cut and paste for you? I'm addressing the point of this thread and what seems to be the point that you are making, does nothing to address the OP.

 

[Redfish]

None of that stops the average joe blow from obtaining wealth. It any if that were true, no
One would know who Steve Jobs or Bill Gates were.

So it seems your solution as a citizen of this country where it is your duty to address and change issues in your government is to ignore the corruption and cronyism and let the cockroaches at the top do as they please?

Sorry Charlie, I'll keep informing people and spreading the message because it is only a matter of time before enough people wake up and say enough. No More.

1. It is not my duty.
2. Corruption in government is not taking away opportunities.
3. Spread your message all you want to but it is irrelevant here.

like all liberals, he/she/it has no solutions, just constantly displays envy of successful people.

 

[PredFan]

What a moronic post. According to impale-o, Wall Street + Government + Multinational Corporations somehow constitute "fascists."

Doesn't even know the meaning of words.

Fine. Call it whatever you like.
It is a fact that most of the policies passed in DC are Written by Bankers and Corporate Heads.

In a corporation, you have no rights or freedoms but just do as you are told.

That is what they want in this country where we do as we are told while they run the government to enrich themselves. Notice the constant loss of Freedoms and Rights and the ever increasing Police State?

All these policies benefit the crony elites running the show at the expense to everyone else in this country.

Even if I believed that, it still does not mean that there will be no opportunities.

 

[Redfish]

What a moronic post. According to impale-o, Wall Street + Government + Multinational Corporations somehow constitute "fascists."

Doesn't even know the meaning of words.

Fine. Call it whatever you like.
It is a fact that most of the policies passed in DC are Written by Bankers and Corporate Heads.

In a corporation, you have no rights or freedoms but just do as you are told.

That is what they want in this country where we do as we are told while they run the government to enrich themselves. Notice the constant loss of Freedoms and Rights and the ever increasing Police State?

All these policies benefit the crony elites running the show at the expense to everyone else in this country.

Even if I believed that, it still does not mean that there will be no opportunities.

Right, libs think that the system that created Oprah, Gates, Jobs, Soros, Buffet, Elvis, Salk, Ford, Edison, and Bell has no opportunities.

Liberalism is a mental disease.

 

[impalero]

There is nothing successful about buddying up to the government to tailor policies to your benefit at the expense to the nation and your competition.

That is not capitalist competition but collusion.

If these people are really successful all based on their own merit, then disconnect from the government and lets see how well they do.

I look down on these kinds of people connected to the government because they exhibit the worst qualities in humans. Theft Greed and Corruption come to mind.

They are stealing my tax dollars by using my government to prop themselves up.

 

[natstew]

"Liberalism is a mental disease."
As such they should never be allowed near a gun, that is their own belief.

 

[Antares]

There is nothing successful about buddying up to the government to tailor policies to your benefit at the expense to the nation and your competition.

That is not capitalist competition but collusion.

If these people are really successful all based on their own merit, then disconnect from the government and lets see how well they do.

I look down on these kinds of people connected to the government because they exhibit the worst qualities in humans. Theft Greed and Corruption come to mind.

They are stealing my tax dollars by using my government to prop themselves up.

Fish asked you a question.

So what is your solution, take everyone's money and wealth and have the govt divide it up "equally" ?

 

[impalero]

WTF?

So what is your solution, take everyones money and wealth and have the govt divide it up "equally" ? WTF is it that you want ?

The solution is not to "take their wealth" but to BOOT them out of the Government.

The better solution would be to shrink the government down to border defense only and hand the power back to local governments and local economies.

The Globalists can pay for their own security abroad and pay for their own ports and interstates systems to ship their goods from all over.

That gives more power back to local business that will not have to pay that cost in taxes, regulations and so on.

 

[Redfish]

WTF?

So what is your solution, take everyones money and wealth and have the govt divide it up "equally" ? WTF is it that you want ?

The solution is not to "take their wealth" but to BOOT them out of the Government.

The better solution would be to shrink the government down to border defense only and hand the power back to local governments and local economies.

The Globalists can pay for their own security abroad and pay for their own ports and interstates systems to ship their goods from all over.

That gives more power back to local business that will not have to pay that cost in taxes, regulations and so on.

then you are a conservative libertarian. why have you been hiding ?

 

[impalero]

then you are a conservative libertarian. why have you been hiding ?

I never stated my political leanings and feel it is irrelevant.

I don't vote by party but by the policies politicians put forth.
And none of them have put forth any policies beneficial to this nation.

Ron Paul was my last pick and we see how that went, where the establishment did everything to throw him under the bus.

The Liberals and Conservatives in DC are all the same as far as I am concerned where they both serve the Big Wall Street Banks and their Globalist Utopia.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's neither government nor capitalism, per se. It's the way the system is currently structured and operating. What's happened is that corporations have found a way to seek and gain advantage and preferential treatment. The politicians and our system of gov't have been compromised as a result. What needs to happen is the the laws and regulations need to be updated AND enforced to put an end to the current system of financing political campaigns.

But the people in power in gov't, and the people who run our most powerful special interests who benefit from the current system have been and will continue to block any changes. That's why people need to vote incumbents out of office, regardless of party affiliation. Until that's done, and until the single greatest determining factor on who wins an election is no longer who raises and spends the most money (including soft money), the system will continue to be corrupt. What that means is that decisions will continue to be made not based on what's best for the country as a whole or what's best for a majority of the people, but what's best for the people who can afford to pay to get what they want.

Stop reversing cause and effect.

The government has found a way to extort money from corporations by granting favors.

The "government" isn't doing anything in this regard. We're talking about individuals. Whether you want to place the blame on politicians with their hands out, or special interests with envelopes of cash at the ready, the end result is the same. But there would be no corruption without money, and there would be no undermining of our system of government without candidates (and legislators, since incumbents are favored to win reelection once in office) who are willing to sell their votes for the money to finance their campaigns once they win.

As far as extorting money is concerned, it was Tom DeLay who ramped up the whole pay-to-play way that Washington works by actually dictating to K Street who they had to hire (Republicans) and refusing to work on issues on their behalf until they gave in to his demands and made contributions to his causes. He earned his nickname, the Hammer.

Newsflash, if the government isn't doing anything, that makes us both wrong.

I am wrong because I am saying the government is handing out favors and extorting money, and you are wrong because you are claiming the government is selling them. If it is, then it is just you, because the government is still handing out favors. Either way, you are wrong.

 

[DiamondDave]

It's an election year and we will be hearing a lot if bull shit. No bigger pile of crap than "income equality" or lack thereof.

While we should have equality of opportunity (and we do), no one has a right to equality of outcome. The outcome of your opportunity is entirely up to you.

This whole issue is nothing but "spreading the wealth around" rehashed. Obama and the democrats didn't do anything about income equality in the first 5 years, in fact the gap has gotten worse, so they think that if they call it something else they can repackage it and sell it to the sheeple again and they will buy it. They have no real plan to do anything about it but campaign on it.

Equality of opportunity - free capitalist society
Equality of outcome - oppressive socialist society

Considering the number of unemployed and underemployed far exceeds that of the Conservative, I would suggest they pick another meme.

How about "Jobs for US Citizens"?
Nah! That would infringe on FREEDOM!

You are not owed a job.. you are now owed pay for nothing.. and we are not in a country where anyone should be forced to provide a job...

Freedom.. yes.. and it comes with positives AND negatives.. STILL better than the alternative, even with the negatives

 

[Quantum Windbag]

motivated, and quite insincere.

The solution to government created problems is not more government.

Apparently, many of the rich would beg to differ based on the money they spend on politicians.

Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets

Misc Business $5,815,757,543
Health $5,760,020,799
Finance/Insur/RealEst $5,738,003,937
Communic/Electronics $4,730,941,613
Energy/Nat Resource $4,268,300,046
Other $3,076,689,869
Transportation $2,947,569,032
Ideology/Single-Issue $1,894,591,537
Agribusiness $1,736,175,743
Defense $1,654,187,912
Construction $631,315,233
Labor $573,322,887
Lawyers & Lobbyists $408,016,748

Why are they spending more and more money every year on politicians via bribes, lobbying, superpacs and so on if Government is not the solution?

If they are trying to defend themselves, who are they defending themselves from?
The others trying to outspend them is the answer.

If you are a corporation or bank lobbying the government to give you favored state, THEN YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

Some 95% of Americans do not have the political nor monetary power these fascists have that own our Government.

You just proved my point, and don't even know it.

People with money aren't trying to buy more money, because even the idiots, like you, know that you can't buy money, so what is it they are trying to get from the government? Could they be trying to get the government not to dump on them like they do the people who think they can live without the government. Even the LA Times gets this fundamental truth, it really shouldn't be that hard for you to see it.

For many years before the lawsuit, Microsoft had virtually no Washington "presence." It had a large office in the suburbs, mainly concerned with selling software to the government. Bill Gates resisted the notion that a software company needed to hire a lot of lobbyists and lawyers. He didn't want anything special from the government, except the freedom to build and sell software. If the government would leave him alone, he would leave the government alone.
At first this was regarded (at least in Washington) as naive. Grown-up companies hire lobbyists. What's this guy's problem? Then it was regarded as foolish. This was not a game. There were big issues at stake. Next it came to be seen as arrogant: Who the hell does Microsoft think it is? Does it think it's too good to do what every other company of its size in the world is doing?
Ultimately, there even was a feeling that, in refusing to play the Washington game, Microsoft was being downright unpatriotic. Look, buddy, there is an American way of doing things, and that American way includes hiring lobbyists, paying lawyers vast sums by the hour, throwing lavish parties for politicians, aides, journalists, and so on. So get with the program.
So that's what Microsoft did. It moved its government affairs office out of distant Chevy Chase, Md., and into the downtown K Street corridor. It bulked up on lawyers and hired the best-connected lobbyists. Soon Microsoft was coming under criticism for being heavy-handed in its attempts to buy influence. But the sad thing is that it seems to have worked. Microsoft is no longer Public Enemy No. 1. No one blamed it for the recent Japanese tsunami, for example, or demanded hearings on its role in the housing industry collapse.

Microsoft lobbying: Corporate influence peddling part of Washington's strategic plan - Los Angeles Times

Feel free to keep making my point for me, the problem is the government, not business. All your imagined problems will go away overnight if we can get government to stop regulating everything.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

One of the best parts of America was that there was plenty of land. In Europe the vast majority of people had little to no chance of ever obtaining land and land was an incredibly important part of being able to earn a living and control your own destiny.

The industrial revolution and global trade also changed that equation significantly. This made access to demand a major consideration for nations and created the first major economic issue, mercantilism.

The argument over mercantilism is far more relevant to todays economies than the one over socialism.

Except that it really isn't.

Yes it is. Mercantilism is actually being used these days while socialism is just a boogey man politicians use to garner votes from the ignorant masses.

Want to have some fun with your preconceived notions? Read this.

Mercantilism: A Lesson for Our Times? : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

The thing is, mercantilism is just ea repacking of socialism to make it more acceptable to idiots, which is why you are wrong. It is no more, or less, relevant than a discussion about anything else because it is all the same fucking thing.

 

[Andylusion]

Considering the number of unemployed and underemployed far exceeds that of the Conservative, I would suggest they pick another meme.

How about "Jobs for US Citizens"?
Nah! That would infringe on FREEDOM!

There would be far more jobs, if the liberals stopped taking money in taxes, to fund their social programs.

You do realize that every dollar that government hands out in anything, such as welfare, requires that a dollar plus more, be removed from the private sector, which harms jobs..... right? You get that Economics 101 logic right?

 

[Mustang]

Considering the number of unemployed and underemployed far exceeds that of the Conservative, I would suggest they pick another meme.

How about "Jobs for US Citizens"?
Nah! That would infringe on FREEDOM!

There would be far more jobs, if the liberals stopped taking money in taxes, to fund their social programs.

You do realize that every dollar that government hands out in anything, such as welfare, requires that a dollar plus more, be removed from the private sector, which harms jobs..... right? You get that Economics 101 logic right?

The tax rate for the wealthy has been the lowest it's been in decades except for a very small increase about 2 years ago. Even still, the carried interest tax rate has allowed men like Mitt Romney to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of 14% Federal tax which is far lower than what middle class tax payers shell out.

Why do you think the wealthy spend so much on lobbyists and tax accountants who push for changes in the tax code? Then they bellyache like they've been held up in a stage coach robbery when in reality the tax marginal tax rate was around 70% when Reagan came into office and it was 90% back when Eisenhower was president.

 

[Zoom-boing]

WTF?

So what is your solution, take everyones money and wealth and have the govt divide it up "equally" ? WTF is it that you want ?

The solution is not to "take their wealth" but to BOOT them out of the Government.

The better solution would be to shrink the government down to border defense only and hand the power back to local governments and local economies.

The Globalists can pay for their own security abroad and pay for their own ports and interstates systems to ship their goods from all over.

That gives more power back to local business that will not have to pay that cost in taxes, regulations and so on.

Absolutely.

The problem by far isn't that the corps/wall street types are offering to buy off the gov't (they shouldn't be doing it though) , but rather that the government is up for sale. They work for us yet over and over and over they allow themselves to be bought and get in bed with the bucks, leaving us in the dust. Government is the problem and we need honest and ethical people to represent us. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Considering the number of unemployed and underemployed far exceeds that of the Conservative, I would suggest they pick another meme.

How about "Jobs for US Citizens"?
Nah! That would infringe on FREEDOM!

There would be far more jobs, if the liberals stopped taking money in taxes, to fund their social programs.

You do realize that every dollar that government hands out in anything, such as welfare, requires that a dollar plus more, be removed from the private sector, which harms jobs..... right? You get that Economics 101 logic right?

The tax rate for the wealthy has been the lowest it's been in decades except for a very small increase about 2 years ago. Even still, the carried interest tax rate has allowed men like Mitt Romney to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of 14% Federal tax which is far lower than what middle class tax payers shell out.

Why do you think the wealthy spend so much on lobbyists and tax accountants who push for changes in the tax code? Then they bellyache like they've been held up in a stage coach robbery when in reality the tax marginal tax rate was around 70% when Reagan came into office and it was 90% back when Eisenhower was president.

The tax rate for the wealthy has been the lowest it's been in decades except for a very small increase about 2 years ago.

The top rate, when Reagan left office, was 28%.
The top rate is now 39.6%.

Which number is lower?

 

[impalero]

The problem by far isn't that the corps/wall street types are offering to buy off the gov't (they shouldn't be doing it though) , but rather that the government is up for sale. They work for us yet over and over and over they allow themselves to be bought and get in bed with the bucks, leaving us in the dust. Government is the problem and we need honest and ethical people to represent us. I'm not holding my breath.

The Number One Question though, is who are these people in Government that are up for Sale? Are they the Joe Six Pack Types? People hailing from the Lower and Middle Class?

OR

Are they Former Wall Street Bankers and Former CEO's of Large Corporations that go into politics to write rules and regulations to benefit their former industries? Then, when they finish their political terms, they have a nice cushy job waiting for them?


Let's take Some of the Wall Street Banks as an example:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/03...g-government-jobs/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Windfalls for Wall Street Executives Taking Jobs in Government

People usually say they go into government to perform public service. If they came from Wall Street, however, their former employers often provide another service.

Banks, including JPMorgan Chase, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, all have provisions that allow acceleration of payments owed to senior executives if they take government jobs, a new study finds.

Such a benefit was highlighted recently during the confirmation hearing for Jacob J. Lew as Treasury secretary. His previous employer, Citigroup, had guaranteed him preferential financial treatment if he were to leave to take a job in the government. When Mr. Lew left Citigroup he held stock that he could not immediately cash worth as much as $500,000, according to a government filing.

“These companies seem to be giving a special deal to executives who become government officials,” says the study, to be released Thursday by the Project on Government Oversight. “In exchange, the companies may end up with friends in high places who understand their business, sympathize with it, and can craft policies in its favor.”

The study looked at the compensation policies of several financial institutions.

The accelerated vesting of Mr. Lew’s shares is part of a larger debate on Wall Street and in Washington, where people frequently move back and forth, creating concern that government officials may favor their old colleagues on Wall Street.

So what we have is Former Wall Street Bankers taking jobs in Politics on the inside and then on the private sector side, we have 5 Wall Street lobbyists for every congressman in Washington basically drafting policies all for them. No conflict of interest there.