Iraq is imploding. Should we lend air support or wash our hands?

[kaz]

We wrongly upset the delicate balance in Iraq, no matter how unpleasant it was. They have to solve their own problems now, and to return something to a delicate balance requires only patience and introspection, while any further interference is the fly in the ointment.

Um...you see Saddam murdering a million Iraqis as a "delicate balance?" I see it as brutal barbarianism.

If you believe that propaganda.

Propaganda? He killed a half million Shiites after the end of the Kuwait war alone. He's used WMDs on his own people numerous times. They dug up mass graves. No one disputes this. You're a true sheep.

 

[Synthaholic]

Um...you see Saddam murdering a million Iraqis as a "delicate balance?" I see it as brutal barbarianism.

If you believe that propaganda.

Propaganda? He killed a half million Shiites after the end of the Kuwait war alone. He's used WMDs on his own people numerous times. They dug up mass graves. No one disputes this. You're a true sheep.

Link? Who was doing the counting?

A million is a lot of people.

 

[Contumacious]

Using airpower and select spec ops missions to kill ISIS terrorists and help the ISF repel them is a better option than letting ISIS take over Iraq or Iran to take over Iraq making a bigger Iran.

Of course I'm sure plenty of liberal and losertarian idiots in this thread spewed their ignorance on this matter based on no experience in the military and watching Hollywood movies as their education on foreign policy/national security matters. Samson afterall is a "5-star General" according to him.

The fucktards never cease to amaze me.

The ISIS mujahideen go to Syria where they are militarily strengthened by the Obama administration which provides them money and materiel in order to oppose Bashar al-Assad.

Then they travel to Iraq where they use their newly found wealth to remove the shiites from power.

US Foreign policy where the (a) left hand does not know what the right is doing and (b) is afflicted by frequent blowbacks.

.

 

[georgephillip]

Using airpower and select spec ops missions to kill ISIS terrorists and help the ISF repel them is a better option than letting ISIS take over Iraq or Iran to take over Iraq making a bigger Iran.

Of course I'm sure plenty of liberal and losertarian idiots in this thread spewed their ignorance on this matter based on no experience in the military and watching Hollywood movies as their education on foreign policy/national security matters. Samson afterall is a "5-star General" according to him.

Are you calling for US air power and hired killers on the ground in Iraq and Syria?

 

[Mac1958]

This may be a dumb question, but I'm trying to find a silver lining in this whole horrific mess.

This is about a lot more than just Iraq. Much of the Middle East is in play and we could literally be seeing the beginning of a re-drawing of the map over there. So:

Let's say this ISIS army (and that's pretty much what it is) succeeds in capturing some territory, be it Iraq or part of Syria or the Kurdish territory or some combination therein, whatever.

I can't imagine such a territory wouldn't attract more Jihadists from the region. Wouldn't that finally give us a key advantage that we've been lacking, an identifiable geographic location of much of the enemy?

.

Perhaps Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordon, Kuwait, and Turkey could actually use some of the billions and billions in weapons and aircraft they have purchased from us over the past 30 years?

Why does it need to be us? If the whole of the Middle East is teetering* isn't it even more imperative for these relatively stable countries to act in their own best interest?

The excuse that if those countries got involved it could inflame the entire ME is tired and lame. It's like saying that if the entire USA tried to crack down on gun violence in Chicago, it would just result in gang violence breaking out across America. Most ME citizens do not want conflict, and do not want religious extremism. Especially in Turkey, Jordon, and Egypt.

* or whatever today's scare word is.

I think we've caused enough damage and yes, you'd think the folks in the Middle East could get their collective shit together at some point. On the other hand, these are people who are essentially operating under a 17th century mindset, so we probably shouldn't hold our breath.

No, I agree with you that this is/should be their problem. My only thought to the contrary is that if we're going to once again shove our military nose in the business of others, it would be more efficient if all these guys were in the same zip code.

.

 

[Kondor3]

Using airpower and select spec ops missions to kill ISIS terrorists and help the ISF repel them is a better option than letting ISIS take over Iraq or Iran to take over Iraq making a bigger Iran.

Of course I'm sure plenty of liberal and losertarian idiots in this thread spewed their ignorance on this matter based on no experience in the military and watching Hollywood movies as their education on foreign policy/national security matters. Samson afterall is a "5-star General" according to him.

You DO understand that not EVERYBODY who is leaning towards 'hands-off' is either an Obumble supporter or a Libertarian, right?

 

[The T]

Um...you see Saddam murdering a million Iraqis as a "delicate balance?" I see it as brutal barbarianism.

If you believe that propaganda.

Propaganda? He killed a half million Shiites after the end of the Kuwait war alone. He's used WMDs on his own people numerous times. They dug up mass graves. No one disputes this. You're a true sheep.

Iraqi Sites Guide - The Mass Graves

 

[Contumacious]

Um...you see Saddam murdering a million Iraqis as a "delicate balance?" I see it as brutal barbarianism.

If you believe that propaganda.

Propaganda? He killed a half million Shiites after the end of the Kuwait war alone. He's used WMDs on his own people numerous times. They dug up mass graves. No one disputes this. You're a true sheep.

"Having looked at all of the evidence that was available to us, we find it impossible to confirm the State Department's claim that gas was used in this instance. To begin with there were never any victims produced. International relief organizations who examined the Kurds -- in Turkey where they had gone for asylum -- failed to discover any. Nor were there ever any found inside Iraq. The claim rests solely on testimony of the Kurds who had crossed the border into Turkey, where they were interviewed by staffers of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee."


STEPHEN C. PELLETIERE
US Army War College

.

 

[EriktheRed]

Elsewhere in Washington, the blame game has already begun. “This is the education of Barack Obama, but it’s coming at a very high cost to the Syrian people to the Iraqi people, to the American national interest,” Doug Feith, the Under-secretary of Defense for Policy from 2001 to 2005, told Politico. “The President didn’t take seriously the warnings of what would happen if we withdrew and he liked the political benefits of being able to say that we’re completely out.” Senator John McCain, whom the President telephoned on Friday, has called on Obama to fire his entire national-security team, claiming, “Could all of this have been avoided? The answer is absolutely yes.”
McCain is right; it could have been avoided. If, in the aftermath of 9/11, President George W. Bush had treated the arguments of Feith, McCain, and other advocates of the Iraq War with the disdain they deserved, we (and the Iraqis) wouldn’t be where we are today.

If, in the immediate aftermath of the U.S. invasion, Paul Bremer, the American proconsul in Baghdad, and his boss, Donald Rumsfeld, had not decided to disband Saddam’s army, the one institution that somewhat unified the country, the Iraqi state would be stronger. If, in addition, Bremer and Rumsfeld had ordered enough U.S. troops onto the streets to preserve order, then Iraq might (and it’s only a might) have held together peacefully instead of degenerating into sectarianism, anarchy, and violence.

If Prime Minister Maliki, whom the United States eventually settled on as its favored Iraqi leader, had made a serious effort to reach out to the Sunnis and the Kurds, rather than acting like a sectarian ward heeler, the departure of U.S. forces might not have created the political stalemate and institutional power vacuum that the jihadis, first in Anbar Province and now in Nineveh and Saladin, have exploited.

None of these things happened, but the greatest mistake was the initial one. […]

The Iraq invasion and occupation was ill-conceived, ill-executed, and ill-fated. It had terrible consequences not just for Iraq but for many other countries. It illustrated the limits of American military power—the opposite of what it was intended to do—and it helped accomplish what Osama bin Laden could never have achieved on his own: drawing the United States and its allies into an open-ended global battle with militant Islam. When you hear Feith and other architects of the Iraq invasion criticizing Obama for cutting and running, it is well to remember that.

The Iraq Mess: Place Blame Where It Is Deserved

 

[Politico]

Could be one bright spot in this mess. Looks like the Kurds might finally get their own Homeland. The Kurds are a good trustworthy people. They've been a loyal friend. They seem somewhat sane in an insane part of the World. And they've been brutally oppressed by their neighbors on all sides. I have to root for em. I'd like to see them get their Homeland. God Bless em.

Turkey does not share your opinion. Free Kurdistan would be at war with Turkey within hours of becoming an independent state.

No to mention I am sure Pakistan would have no issues with half of their country taken away. That guy is fucking loon.

 

[Synthaholic]

If you believe that propaganda.

Propaganda? He killed a half million Shiites after the end of the Kuwait war alone. He's used WMDs on his own people numerous times. They dug up mass graves. No one disputes this. You're a true sheep.

Iraqi Sites Guide - The Mass Graves

So where are you getting a million people from?

 

[Synthaholic]

Could be one bright spot in this mess. Looks like the Kurds might finally get their own Homeland. The Kurds are a good trustworthy people. They've been a loyal friend. They seem somewhat sane in an insane part of the World. And they've been brutally oppressed by their neighbors on all sides. I have to root for em. I'd like to see them get their Homeland. God Bless em.

Turkey does not share your opinion. Free Kurdistan would be at war with Turkey within hours of becoming an independent state.

You're talking out of your ass, as usual.

The tensions between Turks and Kurds is because Kurds occupy Southeastern Turkey. Leaving for their own country will lessen tensions.

 

[tinydancer]

Geezs louize why are you letting this drive you.

 

[Care4all]

Um...you see Saddam murdering a million Iraqis as a "delicate balance?" I see it as brutal barbarianism.

If you believe that propaganda.

Propaganda? He killed a half million Shiites after the end of the Kuwait war alone. He's used WMDs on his own people numerous times. They dug up mass graves. No one disputes this. You're a true sheep.

50,000 UN estimate to as high as 172000 estimate from the Shiites, NOT the 500,000? and the Shiites rebelled against Saddam and the Sunni's and was killing them in their town in brutal manners....before Saddam sent his troops in....hw bush 1 admin encouraged the rebellion and the Shiites were supposedly told that we would come in and help them with their rebellion....instead we stood by the wayside and let them die....

is what I have read on it.

We truly need to get out of this warring crapola, we are not very good at it when it comes to the middle east imo....we are just clueless on what the right thing is, that we should do....because the place is so messed up with so many different evil factions at play.

 

[Seawytch]

Why the fuck couldn't we have invaded Grenada instead?

 

[Kondor3]

Why the fuck couldn't we have invaded Grenada instead?

Nahhhhh... that's just a toothpick.

 

[Wildman]

I have mixed feelings on this.

On one hand the middle east is a cesspool of savages and I just wish they would all kill each other off.

On the other hand do we stand by and let these savages gain control of a nation from which they would gain military assets to use against us?

Ignoring them won't make them leave us alone so whats the solution?

NUKE the area till it takes 10,000 years for a lizard to even walk across the sand that was not turned to glass ! ..... ....

 

[jon_berzerk]

If Congress wants the President to use military force again in Iraq let them vote on a resolution supporting President Obama and giving him the resources necessary.

why would he need congress

he has not needed them so far

 

[Kondor3]

What's the solution?

Short term? Walk away.

Long term? Learn from past mistakes. Act prudently and intelligently and effectively in future.

Although, quite frankly, I wonder if we're capable of that.

 

[Kondor3]

If Congress wants the President to use military force again in Iraq let them vote on a resolution supporting President Obama and giving him the resources necessary.

why would he need congress

he has not needed them so far

"Constitution?

We don't need no stinking Constitution!"