Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

[brandonisi]

The APA lists no known causes for homosexual, thoughthere are some hypotheses. What do you think and why?

Well, I can tell you from first hand experience that whatever "causes" it is something that can't be prevented. I'm gay. I never made the choice to "be gay". I just never had an attraction to women.

THE CHOICE IS WILL YOU DO ACTS OF SEXUAL PERVERSION OR NOT =THAT IS THE CHOICE!!and you??

Yikes. Okay, let me break this down so that you can better understand.

Yes, I "choose" to have sex with my boyfriend of nine years...but of course I do. What you're doing is making sex the whole of me, as if I'm incapable of human emotions. I "choose" to have sex with my boyfriend because I am attracted to him both sexually and romantically.

Now let's get to attraction. That is not a choice. No one chooses to be attracted to someone sexually or have romantic feelings for them. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you prefer the opposite sex. That is what you are attracted to, therefore that is what you CHOOSE to have sex with and pursue romantic relationships with.

So,

Sexual ACTS - a choice
Sexual ATTRACTION - not a choice

I mean, this isn't rocket science, right?

As for it being a "perversion"...well, okay. According to....?

 

[Inevitable]

[MENTION=49586]Inevitable[/MENTION]
1. Yes, that's fine for me, I can see you are saying close enough to the same thing as others. The ones who changed, also say they are "naturally heterosexual." so that is why they are successful in healing because they are restoring their natural state, not changing into some orientation they are not. The ones who change are NOT homosexual and just "choosing not to act on it" or lying/suppressing what is natural for them, or "changing their orientation to heterosexual."

So I can see you and they agree on some level, even if the language for it varies.

[MENTION=22295]emilynghiem[/MENTION], I don't think we agree on any level. "The ones that change" don't exist.

2. When you speak with others who only argue this as "either/or, their way or your way":
Either all cases are natural and not a choice
or all cases are unnatural and a choice.

It sounds to me you DO believe in people dropping homosexual behavior "as a choice" but to you that means they weren't naturally born homosexual to begin with but heterosexual.

No, you are mixing up my words. People can alter their behavior to fit any character they wish. Behavior is often a compulsion.

I think it would help to specify that kind of homosexual behavior you agree "is a choice" happens when the person is naturally born heterosexual even though they are acting otherwise.

I personally don't believe thereis a such thing as "homosexual behavior." Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. Behavior is just behavior.

At least you could find one area where you agree a choice is going on, and then clarify what you mean. The other person can keep believing that
all cases are heterosexuals choosing behavior or relationships, but at least you are not excluding the cases where people did change their lives.

People that can't help their behavior are either behaving appropriately or they are compulsive. I don't believe there is a choice involved.

You just explain it differently, but it seems to be consistent with the very people who changed who also say they were born to be heterosexual and that's how they were able to change.

Thanks Inevitable and good job with this thread!

Not so sure about that one.

 

[emilynghiem]

1.

I don't think we agree on any level. "The ones that change" don't exist.

I am referring to the people like on that website who
engaged in homosexual relations/lifestyle, then like you said
recognized they were "naturally born heterosexual."
So these are not "homosexual" to you, I understand that.

I understand SOME people think this means "homosexual people changing
to be heterosexual people" and you do not.

I understand YOU are saying if they are homosexual they are born that way,
and the others were never homosexual (but were lying/experimenting etc.)

But we are still talking about the same set of people.
So they do exist, these "ones who change their lifestyles"
even though you do NOT consider it "changing their orientation"
because if they were real homosexual/natural born they could not change
and only if they were naturally born heterosexual can they change their behavior.

It's still the same physical people, just not using the same terms to describe the
"change" they went through. I get it. And I am okay with that difference in terms.
Thank you [MENTION=49586]Inevitable[/MENTION].

2.

No, you are mixing up my words. People can alter their behavior to fit any character they wish. Behavior is often a compulsion.

I personally don't believe thereis a such thing as "homosexual behavior." Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. Behavior is just behavior.

Yes this is fine also. You do not call that "change of behavior" to be a "change of orientation". That's fine. I agree it still describes the same people who call their experience as leaving their homosexual lifestyles or desires/attractions behind.

3.

Not so sure about that one.

You are modest and not in it for yourself.

This is a difficult issue for people to talk about and get the concepts/terms
on the same page as each other.

When it gets to the point where people can see where our differences are,
and getting it, that we are not going to see or say it the same way,
that to me is success. The differences are going to remain,
and the process is how to manage that so we can still communicate.

 

[GISMYS]

Well, I can tell you from first hand experience that whatever "causes" it is something that can't be prevented. I'm gay. I never made the choice to "be gay". I just never had an attraction to women.

THE CHOICE IS WILL YOU DO ACTS OF SEXUAL PERVERSION OR NOT =THAT IS THE CHOICE!!and you??

Yikes. Okay, let me break this down so that you can better understand.

Yes, I "choose" to have sex with my boyfriend of nine years...but of course I do. What you're doing is making sex the whole of me, as if I'm incapable of human emotions. I "choose" to have sex with my boyfriend because I am attracted to him both sexually and romantically.

Now let's get to attraction. That is not a choice. No one chooses to be attracted to someone sexually or have romantic feelings for them. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you prefer the opposite sex. That is what you are attracted to, therefore that is what you CHOOSE to have sex with and pursue romantic relationships with.

So,

Sexual ACTS - a choice
Sexual ATTRACTION - not a choice

I mean, this isn't rocket science, right?

As for it being a "perversion"...well, okay. According to....?

ATTRACTION IS CHOICE!!!! I AM NOT ATTRACTED TO SOME WOMEN,500 LB WOMEN, 6'4"+ WOMEN ,STUPID BIMBO BARFLY WOMEN,WILD WOMEN, DRUNK OR DRUGGIEE WOMEN OFFER I CHOSE TO HAVE NO ATTRACTION FOR!!! my choice!!

 

[brandonisi]

THE CHOICE IS WILL YOU DO ACTS OF SEXUAL PERVERSION OR NOT =THAT IS THE CHOICE!!and you??

Yikes. Okay, let me break this down so that you can better understand.

Yes, I "choose" to have sex with my boyfriend of nine years...but of course I do. What you're doing is making sex the whole of me, as if I'm incapable of human emotions. I "choose" to have sex with my boyfriend because I am attracted to him both sexually and romantically.

Now let's get to attraction. That is not a choice. No one chooses to be attracted to someone sexually or have romantic feelings for them. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you prefer the opposite sex. That is what you are attracted to, therefore that is what you CHOOSE to have sex with and pursue romantic relationships with.

So,

Sexual ACTS - a choice
Sexual ATTRACTION - not a choice

I mean, this isn't rocket science, right?

As for it being a "perversion"...well, okay. According to....?

ATTRACTION IS CHOICE!!!! I AM NOT ATTRACTED TO SOME WOMEN,500 LB WOMEN, 6'4"+ WOMEN ,STUPID BIMBO BARFLY WOMEN,WILD WOMEN, DRUNK OR DRUGGIEE WOMEN OFFER I CHOSE TO HAVE NO ATTRACTION FOR!!! my choice!!

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're a troll or something until someone else tells me you're actually serious.

 

[GISMYS]

Yikes. Okay, let me break this down so that you can better understand.

Yes, I "choose" to have sex with my boyfriend of nine years...but of course I do. What you're doing is making sex the whole of me, as if I'm incapable of human emotions. I "choose" to have sex with my boyfriend because I am attracted to him both sexually and romantically.

Now let's get to attraction. That is not a choice. No one chooses to be attracted to someone sexually or have romantic feelings for them. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you prefer the opposite sex. That is what you are attracted to, therefore that is what you CHOOSE to have sex with and pursue romantic relationships with.

So,

Sexual ACTS - a choice
Sexual ATTRACTION - not a choice

I mean, this isn't rocket science, right?

As for it being a "perversion"...well, okay. According to....?

ATTRACTION IS CHOICE!!!! I AM NOT ATTRACTED TO SOME WOMEN,500 LB WOMEN, 6'4"+ WOMEN ,STUPID BIMBO BARFLY WOMEN,WILD WOMEN, DRUNK OR DRUGGIEE WOMEN OFFER I CHOSE TO HAVE NO ATTRACTION FOR!!! my choice!!

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're a troll or something until someone else tells me you're actually serious.

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're a SEXUAL PERVERT DOING SEXUAL PERVERSION ACTS OF ABOMINATION WHICH GOD CONDEMNS!!!

 

[GISMYS]

Truth is Hate to those that Hate Truth!! ==God must not and will not be mocked!...Heed his judgments with fear(respect), and to remember God said in Gen.6:5-God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. God destroy the first world time period, and because man cannot naturally see God with his eyes, he has no fear, and believes he is his own self god, yet one day to every man all things will be made clear by God. His judgment will open all eyes to know that he is God and a true God of his word! Also some people are deceived by Satan to look at nature as a lawful guide for homosexuality. Just because same sex acts are done by animals(mammals) of different kinds is no rightful reason ,that mankind should behave and do as animals do. Animals don't go to "Hell and Fire",after they die, but perverted mankind does according to the judgement of God's word. God didn't speak his word against the animals,God spoke unto mankind, and that they must not commit the acts of homosexuality. Animals aren't made in the "image of God", but man is. Therefore, man is required to give account of the things he has done. Eccl.12:13-Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.14. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[Inevitable]

I am referring to the people like on that website who
engaged in homosexual relations/lifestyle, then like you said
recognized they were "naturally born heterosexual."
So these are not "homosexual" to you, I understand that.

I understand SOME people think this means "homosexual people changing
to be heterosexual people" and you do not.

I understand YOU are saying if they are homosexual they are born that way,
and the others were never homosexual (but were lying/experimenting etc.)

But we are still talking about the same set of people.
So they do exist, these "ones who change their lifestyles"
even though you do NOT consider it "changing their orientation"
because if they were real homosexual/natural born they could not change
and only if they were naturally born heterosexual can they change their behavior.

It's still the same physical people, just not using the same terms to describe the
"change" they went through. I get it. And I am okay with that difference in terms.
Thank you [MENTION=49586]Inevitable[/MENTION].

See here is a problem, there is no way to tell that the "people that wish to change" are actually afflicted or that people frankly are capable of being afflicted by "unnatural sexual orientation." This is an opening, a gaping one at that, for abuse. In our society is isn't socially acceptable to be homosexual, thus homosexuals are taught to despise their sexuality. They need spiritual healing as well, but not really to fight their sexuality. This group called change creates a "one size fits all" treatment. It's frankly quite sinister. They are effectively attempting to remove something that we don't fully understand in order to remove something that they have a rather backward religious objection to, and nothing more.

It's essentially psychological eugenics.

Yes this is fine also. You do not call that "change of behavior" to be a "change of orientation". That's fine. I agree it still describes the same people who call their experience as leaving their homosexual lifestyles or desires/attractions behind.

Changing behavior doesn't effect the orientation. There also is no so called "homosexual lifestyle" just for the future reference it is rather insulting to suggest just because somebodyis homosexualthey live a different lifestyle.

3.

Not so sure about that one.

You are modest and not in it for yourself.

This is a difficult issue for people to talk about and get the concepts/terms
on the same page as each other.

When it gets to the point where people can see where our differences are,
and getting it, that we are not going to see or say it the same way,
that to me is success. The differences are going to remain,
and the process is how to manage that so we can still communicate.[/QUOTE]
It's important to be respectful and level headed when discussing things like this. It's the only way an understanding can be reached.

 

[brandonisi]

Ah, okay. So you're serious?

ATTRACTION IS CHOICE!!!! I AM NOT ATTRACTED TO SOME WOMEN,500 LB WOMEN, 6'4"+ WOMEN ,STUPID BIMBO BARFLY WOMEN,WILD WOMEN, DRUNK OR DRUGGIEE WOMEN OFFER I CHOSE TO HAVE NO ATTRACTION FOR!!! my choice!!

You actually didn't explain at all how it is you've come to the conclusion that you've "chosen" not to be attracted to "stupid bimbo barfy women". You simply gave me a list of "traits" (?) that you are not attracted to. So, according to you, you could (if you wanted to) become sexually aroused by said "barfy woman" or a woman weighing in at 500lbs. This is a major scientific breakthrough. You've apparently stumbled on to some kind of undiscovered natural human skill.

You're actually claiming you can CONTROL what sexually attracts you. So, if you wanted to, you could be attracted to men? That's amazing.

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're a SEXUAL PERVERT DOING SEXUAL PERVERSION ACTS OF ABOMINATION WHICH GOD CONDEMNS!!!

Ah. God. Alright.

Truth is Hate to those that Hate Truth!! ==God must not and will not be mocked!...Heed his judgments with fear(respect), and to remember God said in Gen.6:5-God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. God destroy the first world time period, and because man cannot naturally see God with his eyes, he has no fear, and believes he is his own self god, yet one day to every man all things will be made clear by God. His judgment will open all eyes to know that he is God and a true God of his word! Also some people are deceived by Satan to look at nature as a lawful guide for homosexuality. Just because same sex acts are done by animals(mammals) of different kinds is no rightful reason ,that mankind should behave and do as animals do. Animals don't go to "Hell and Fire",after they die, but perverted mankind does according to the judgement of God's word. God didn't speak his word against the animals,God spoke unto mankind, and that they must not commit the acts of homosexuality. Animals aren't made in the "image of God", but man is. Therefore, man is required to give account of the things he has done. Eccl.12:13-Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.14. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Throwing bible verses at a non-christian is like trying to convince someone that their dog is actually a cat. They KNOW it's a dog. But you KNOW it's a cat.

I'm not a christian. The United States is not officially Christian. The laws are not derived from the Bible. Therefore, while you may spout out your religious rhetoric until kingdom come (as is your right), it doesn't hold any water in politics or public debate...at least not rational debate.

 

[GISMYS]

Ah, okay. So you're serious?

ATTRACTION IS CHOICE!!!! I AM NOT ATTRACTED TO SOME WOMEN,500 LB WOMEN, 6'4"+ WOMEN ,STUPID BIMBO BARFLY WOMEN,WILD WOMEN, DRUNK OR DRUGGIEE WOMEN OFFER I CHOSE TO HAVE NO ATTRACTION FOR!!! my choice!!

You actually didn't explain at all how it is you've come to the conclusion that you've "chosen" not to be attracted to "stupid bimbo barfy women". You simply gave me a list of "traits" (?) that you are not attracted to. So, according to you, you could (if you wanted to) become sexually aroused by said "barfy woman" or a woman weighing in at 500lbs. This is a major scientific breakthrough. You've apparently stumbled on to some kind of undiscovered natural human skill.

You're actually claiming you can CONTROL what sexually attracts you. So, if you wanted to, you could be attracted to men? That's amazing.

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're a SEXUAL PERVERT DOING SEXUAL PERVERSION ACTS OF ABOMINATION WHICH GOD CONDEMNS!!!

Ah. God. Alright.

Truth is Hate to those that Hate Truth!! ==God must not and will not be mocked!...Heed his judgments with fear(respect), and to remember God said in Gen.6:5-God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. God destroy the first world time period, and because man cannot naturally see God with his eyes, he has no fear, and believes he is his own self god, yet one day to every man all things will be made clear by God. His judgment will open all eyes to know that he is God and a true God of his word! Also some people are deceived by Satan to look at nature as a lawful guide for homosexuality. Just because same sex acts are done by animals(mammals) of different kinds is no rightful reason ,that mankind should behave and do as animals do. Animals don't go to "Hell and Fire",after they die, but perverted mankind does according to the judgement of God's word. God didn't speak his word against the animals,God spoke unto mankind, and that they must not commit the acts of homosexuality. Animals aren't made in the "image of God", but man is. Therefore, man is required to give account of the things he has done. Eccl.12:13-Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.14. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Throwing bible verses at a non-christian is like trying to convince someone that their dog is actually a cat. They KNOW it's a dog. But you KNOW it's a cat.

I'm not a christian. The United States is not officially Christian. The laws are not derived from the Bible. Therefore, while you may spout out your religious rhetoric until kingdom come (as is your right), it doesn't hold any water in politics or public debate...at least not rational debate.

YES!!!YOU HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM===ALMIGHTY GOD says atheist are FOOLS!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That man is a fool who says to himself, “There is no God!” Anyone who talks like that is warped and evil and cannot really be a good person at all.Psalm 14:1===Only a fool would say to himself, “There is no God.” And why does he say it? Because of his wicked heart, his dark and evil deeds. His life is corroded with sin. PSALM 53:1 and you???

 

[AntiParty]

THE CHOICE IS WILL YOU DO ACTS OF SEXUAL PERVERSION OR NOT =THAT IS THE CHOICE!!and you??

Yikes. Okay, let me break this down so that you can better understand.

Yes, I "choose" to have sex with my boyfriend of nine years...but of course I do. What you're doing is making sex the whole of me, as if I'm incapable of human emotions. I "choose" to have sex with my boyfriend because I am attracted to him both sexually and romantically.

Now let's get to attraction. That is not a choice. No one chooses to be attracted to someone sexually or have romantic feelings for them. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you prefer the opposite sex. That is what you are attracted to, therefore that is what you CHOOSE to have sex with and pursue romantic relationships with.

So,

Sexual ACTS - a choice
Sexual ATTRACTION - not a choice

I mean, this isn't rocket science, right?

As for it being a "perversion"...well, okay. According to....?

ATTRACTION IS CHOICE!!!! I AM NOT ATTRACTED TO SOME WOMEN,500 LB WOMEN, 6'4"+ WOMEN ,STUPID BIMBO BARFLY WOMEN,WILD WOMEN, DRUNK OR DRUGGIEE WOMEN OFFER I CHOSE TO HAVE NO ATTRACTION FOR!!! my choice!!

The most important thing to note here is the word "CHOICE"! Choice is considered a Freedom. And even if you don't understand it as a choice, it's still a freedom. The gays never asked you or me to understand it, they just want bigotry to end. We need to stop judging groups we are unfamiliar with. Bigotry is the most prehistoric mind-set Americans have.

 

[midcan5]

And the beat goes on.... Too funny that this issue isn't settled. But anyone who thinks sexuality is a choice can find out for themselves. Simply switch hit, try it, from today for a few days find attraction in the other gender. Boy, his/her ass is nice, jeez, I'd love to hug her/him and a kiss would be oh so wonderful. No need to jump right in physically, the mind is all you need. Good luck and let us all know how it goes. And please try hard even in your dreams of conquest. My post below is from 2007 - too funny.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/50615-know-what-really-causes-homosexuality.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...arding-islam-and-one-flesh-2.html#post8319649

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean...something-simply-inherent-29.html#post9326144

 

[Quantum Windbag]

And the beat goes on.... Too funny that this issue isn't settled. But anyone who thinks sexuality is a choice can find out for themselves. Simply switch hit, try it, from today for a few days find attraction in the other gender. Boy, his/her ass is nice, jeez, I'd love to hug her/him and a kiss would be oh so wonderful. No need to jump right in physically, the mind is all you need. Good luck and let us all know how it goes. And please try hard even in your dreams of conquest. My post below is from 2007 - too funny.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/50615-know-what-really-causes-homosexuality.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...arding-islam-and-one-flesh-2.html#post8319649

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean...something-simply-inherent-29.html#post9326144

Why are you afraid of freedom? Does the ability to chose scare you?

 

[brandonisi]

YES!!!YOU HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM===ALMIGHTY GOD says atheist are FOOLS!!!

Errr...I've got some bad news for you. I'm not an atheist. Not believing in the Christian interpretation of God or not believing in the Bible does not make one an atheist. It just makes one a non-christian.

Anyway, I've been informed you're about as useful as a cup of ice in Antarctica and conversations with you are like talking to a "bible-bot". Also, your caps-lock gives me a headache.

 

[GISMYS]

YES!!!YOU HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM===ALMIGHTY GOD says atheist are FOOLS!!!

Errr...I've got some bad news for you. I'm not an atheist. Not believing in the Christian interpretation of God or not believing in the Bible does not make one an atheist. It just makes one a non-christian.

Anyway, I've been informed you're about as useful as a cup of ice in Antarctica and conversations with you are like talking to a "bible-bot". Also, your caps-lock gives me a headache.

YES!!!YOU HAVE A HUGE PROBLEMS===ALMIGHTY GOD says atheist are FOOLS!!!

 

[Mathbud1]

Given that humans do not have the ability to reproduce a-sexually, I would argue genetics through natural selection as the largest factor in our sexual behavior.

Please explain how you think genetics would affect behavior.

For example, pheromone induced behavior.

Human Physiology/The endocrine system - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

There are genetically encoded reasons, or biases if you will, that most men are sexually attracted to women and vice verse. Additionally, when a man and a woman sleep together there are chemicals exchanged that aid in said attraction so they will stay together.

That definitely shows that our bodies release hormones in response to stimuli (environment) that can affect our behavior. It doesn't show that our genes are pre-programmed with the instructions to make us heterosexual or homosexual.

It makes sense for female pheremones to prompt male attraction for breeding purposes. If there are/were male pheremones that prompt male attraction, what purpose could they serve genetically speaking?

I'm not a biologist, but there doesn't SEEM to be anything from a bilogical standpoint that could possibly explain a natural reason for anyone to be "genetically programmed" for homosexuality. From a natural selection point of view it would end any hereditary line that carried the gene because homosexuality is not "breedable."

It seems FAR more likely that post-birth external stimuli influence us to certain behaviors.

 

[RKMBrown]

Please explain how you think genetics would affect behavior.

For example, pheromone induced behavior.

Human Physiology/The endocrine system - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

There are genetically encoded reasons, or biases if you will, that most men are sexually attracted to women and vice verse. Additionally, when a man and a woman sleep together there are chemicals exchanged that aid in said attraction so they will stay together.

That definitely shows that our bodies release hormones in response to stimuli (environment) that can affect our behavior. It doesn't show that our genes are pre-programmed with the instructions to make us heterosexual or homosexual.

It makes sense for female pheremones to prompt male attraction for breeding purposes. If there are/were male pheremones that prompt male attraction, what purpose could they serve genetically speaking?

I'm not a biologist, but there doesn't SEEM to be anything from a bilogical standpoint that could possibly explain a natural reason for anyone to be "genetically programmed" for homosexuality. From a natural selection point of view it would end any hereditary line that carried the gene because homosexuality is not "breedable."

It seems FAR more likely that post-birth external stimuli influence us to certain behaviors.

It does show that our genes are pre-programmed with the instructions to make us sexual. I have noted in quite a few males who are gay decidedly female speech, appearance, and behavior patterns. Learned through culture? Do females act as they do solely on culture? I think it's some combination.

To the question of are there any male pheromones that prompt male attraction, and if so what purpose could they serve genetically speaking?

Think Roman legions, think groups / packs of hunter's. Attraction does not have to be for sex alone. For example, it has been shown that even hetero males will have bias to vote for the better more viral looking male candidate.

Additionally, both males and females can easily achieve orgasm outside of coitus.

 

[Mathbud1]

For example, pheromone induced behavior.

Human Physiology/The endocrine system - Wikibooks, open books for an open world

There are genetically encoded reasons, or biases if you will, that most men are sexually attracted to women and vice verse. Additionally, when a man and a woman sleep together there are chemicals exchanged that aid in said attraction so they will stay together.

That definitely shows that our bodies release hormones in response to stimuli (environment) that can affect our behavior. It doesn't show that our genes are pre-programmed with the instructions to make us heterosexual or homosexual.

It makes sense for female pheremones to prompt male attraction for breeding purposes. If there are/were male pheremones that prompt male attraction, what purpose could they serve genetically speaking?

I'm not a biologist, but there doesn't SEEM to be anything from a bilogical standpoint that could possibly explain a natural reason for anyone to be "genetically programmed" for homosexuality. From a natural selection point of view it would end any hereditary line that carried the gene because homosexuality is not "breedable."

It seems FAR more likely that post-birth external stimuli influence us to certain behaviors.

It does show that our genes are pre-programmed with the instructions to make us sexual. I have noted in quite a few males who are gay decidedly female speech, appearance, and behavior patterns. Learned through culture? Do females act as they do solely on culture? I think it's some combination.

To the question of are there any male pheromones that prompt male attraction, and if so what purpose could they serve genetically speaking?

Think Roman legions, think groups / packs of hunter's. Attraction does not have to be for sex alone. For example, it has been shown that even hetero males will have bias to vote for the better more viral looking male candidate.

Additionally, both males and females can easily achieve orgasm outside of coitus.

The psuedo-feminine behavior seems mostly an affectation to me, and not one that makes much sense. Logically speaking, why would a man who is attracted to men be attracted to a man who tries to act as much like a woman as he can?

Culture is not the only thing that influences feminine behavior. Culture is far from the only external influence on us. Something as simple as a bad smell or taste at a certain moment can taint our perceptions of that moment forever. Were we sad or happy in moment? Were we tired or alert? Were we distracted by other things or focused wholly on the moment? Our interactions with the world around us are hugely complex, and (it seems to me) have to have as complex an influence on our behavior.

Sexual attraction is, by definition, for sex. The only logical seeming argument for a genetic influence on sexual attraction would be finding the best mate for breeding (not something that can be satisfied by homosexuality.) For non-sexual attractions, such as you described, the argument might be survival. Teaming up with other physically fit and strong males should increase your chances of surviving in a dangerous world.

I'm not sure what the relevance is of your comment about orgasm outside of coitus. You'll have to explain. (If you want to.)

 

[Mathbud1]

And the beat goes on.... Too funny that this issue isn't settled. But anyone who thinks sexuality is a choice can find out for themselves. Simply switch hit, try it, from today for a few days find attraction in the other gender. Boy, his/her ass is nice, jeez, I'd love to hug her/him and a kiss would be oh so wonderful. No need to jump right in physically, the mind is all you need. Good luck and let us all know how it goes. And please try hard even in your dreams of conquest. My post below is from 2007 - too funny.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/50615-know-what-really-causes-homosexuality.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...arding-islam-and-one-flesh-2.html#post8319649

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean...something-simply-inherent-29.html#post9326144

My position is not that it necessarily has to be a choice, but I don't think it can't be a choice. It is likely that with enough effort and focus I could change my perceptions enough to be attracted to a male. Why would I want to though? It would completely end any breeding hopes I might have. It would be difficult to do. It would open me up to the stigma against homosexuality. And it would severely limit the number of potential sexual partners I might have. Not an attractive choice from my perspective. For others it might be less unattractive. To rebel against societal norms. To escape bad past experiences. To get attention, good or bad.

It doesn't seem likely that many would make that choice consciously. Far more likely to me is external influence shaping behavior without conscious choice in most situations.

 

[Mathbud1]

And the beat goes on.... Too funny that this issue isn't settled. But anyone who thinks sexuality is a choice can find out for themselves. Simply switch hit, try it, from today for a few days find attraction in the other gender. Boy, his/her ass is nice, jeez, I'd love to hug her/him and a kiss would be oh so wonderful. No need to jump right in physically, the mind is all you need. Good luck and let us all know how it goes. And please try hard even in your dreams of conquest. My post below is from 2007 - too funny.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/50615-know-what-really-causes-homosexuality.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...arding-islam-and-one-flesh-2.html#post8319649

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean...something-simply-inherent-29.html#post9326144

As an aside most issues aren't ever really settled. They might be "settled" for a certain group at a certain time, but in another time and place they will almost certainly be questioned again.