Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

[emilynghiem]

...This nation is CURSED!...Judgment is here and now! Repent America.TFA.

Dear [MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION]
Please lead by example. GreenBean posted links of people leading by example
People Can Change - An alternative, healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.
Can you post YOUR testimony as an example of "America repenting"
(not pointing judgment at others as hypocrites do preaching in public).

Can you please demonstrate repentance for us here?
These other people did, and are VERY effective in helping others to do the same.

Yes, there are curses on the land.
But yelling about curses and judgment never broke any curses
or cast any demons out. It only reinforced them with more fear and rebellion.

What I have seen people use to break curses
is praying for Forgiveness in AGREEMENT, not division and judgment.
Asking Jesus authority to cast out the spirit of error rebellion division etc.

I have never seen any healer cast out demons by pronouncing judgment on people.
Do you need training in how this is done? See Home - Christian Healing Ministries
How can we reach AGREEMENT in Christ first, in order to invoke that authority to cast out errors causing evil.

What is causing you to yell out negative things out of fear instead of love?
Is it a choice?
Is it mental illness?
Is it something inherent?

Why are you speaking in healthy loving forgiving words as the people who
are successful in their outreach to help free people from "sexual perversion"
People Can Change - An alternative, healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.
If God is working through them, what are they doing differently from you that is working when yours is not? Why follow your way that does not work
when this way that works from God has changed these people's lives as you desire to see?

Can you follow their example and lead by your own?
Thank you GISMYS this would be more helpful and succeed.

 

[GISMYS]

AMERICA HAS NOT REPENTED!!!== speaking in healthy loving forgiving words IS NOT WHAT IS NEEDED WHEN SPEAKING TO SIN LOVING, GOD REJECTORS,THEY NEED TO HEAR GOD'S WARNING OF COMMING JUDGMENTS TO THOSE THAT WILL NOT CONFESS THEIR SIN ""IS"" SIN AND REPENT!!! Time is very short!!

 

[emilynghiem]

EVIL SIN THAT HAS COST 40,000,000 DEAD FROM HIV AIDS AND RUINED MILLIONS MORE LIVES WITH SHAME AND GUILT SHOULD BE THE CONCERN OF EVERYONE!!and you??

[MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION] I am going to go back and thank your other post, since that was closer to talking like a normal person, and not this one that is back to yelling in ALL CAPS. Please do not do this anymore. Luddly especially is a very sensitive person and does not respond to this yelling or Bible explanations, so you are preaching to the wrong choir again.

Your other post was a lot closer, please stick with that style not this one! Thank you for your effort to share, and I pray you receive God's help to "change" and become more effective in how you normally speak and share that is "natural" for you, not "unnatural" as this is coming across. Thanks! The other msg is a noticeable improvement so thank you for that. Much better job!

 

[GISMYS]

EVIL SIN THAT HAS COST 40,000,000 DEAD FROM HIV AIDS AND RUINED MILLIONS MORE LIVES WITH SHAME AND GUILT SHOULD BE THE CONCERN OF EVERYONE!!and you??

[MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION] I am going to go back and thank your other post, since that was closer to talking like a normal person, and not this one that is back to yelling in ALL CAPS. Please do not do this anymore. Luddly especially is a very sensitive person and does not respond to this yelling or Bible explanations, so you are preaching to the wrong choir again.

Your other post was a lot closer, please stick with that style not this one! Thank you for your effort to share, and I pray you receive God's help to "change" and become more effective in how you normally speak and share that is "natural" for you, not "unnatural" as this is coming across. Thanks! The other msg is a noticeable improvement so thank you for that. Much better job!

LOL!!! Your opinion of my posts counts as zero to me!!!!=== For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet sought to please men, I should not be the servant of Christ. Galations 1:10

 

[emilynghiem]

LOL!!! Your opinion of my posts counts as zero to me!!!!=== For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet sought to please men, I should not be the servant of Christ. Galations 1:10

[MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION] You count as a man, too, so as long as you post in ways that please you, you are attending to man, in particular to yourself -- to what you makes YOU feel you are sharing God's Word.

Jesus said for us to love one another as he has. Let us follow Jesus example:
When he spoke to Fisherman, he used the language of Fishermen.
When Jesus spoke with Farmers, he used the language and experiences of Farmers.
When he spoke with Pharisees, yes he used Scripture but these ppl here are not of that category or calling,
Many are secular Gentiles under natural laws like the Farmers and Fishermen who learn from life's parables.

Can you please speak with us as Jesus spoke in natural terms? This will help.
And I would love to hear your personal story, if you can add it to your other threads.
That is the most meaningful and the most effective testimony you can give.

Look at the successful witnesses on GreenBean's post,
When they speak to fellow men and women to overcome "sexual issues"
they SPEAK using THEIR OWN experiences, similar to Jesus with the
Farmers and Fishermen, using things they understood IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE.

He did not preach to illiterate fishermen and farmers citing Bible scriptures,
but used PARABLES from real life to explain spiritual process and changes.

Can you do this?
Can you use your own words to describe the Kingdom of God to share with others?

Luddly hangover and Bruce here made it clear they do not receive anything expressed using the Bible which is not their language.

GISMYS would you speak English (for YOUR convenience) to a German or Japanese person who does not process any of what you are saying?

Please be considerate and wise.

If you do not respond to people preaching Muslim or Chinese to you,
please do not preach to others using a foreign language like speaking in tongues.

Jesus debated with Pharisees in the temple over scripture as their COMMON LANGUAGE.

Please establish common language first, as the people who post their own testimonies online which WORK because they speak from Personal experience.

Can you also share with us from your personal experiences that
changed your life spiritually
and see if people understand you better. Thanks GISMYS
if it doesn't fit the topic, please direct to one of your other threads.

 

[GISMYS]

LOL!!! Your opinion of my posts counts as zero to me!!!!=== For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet sought to please men, I should not be the servant of Christ. Galations 1:10

[MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION] You count as a man, too, so as long as you post in ways that please you, you are attending to man, in particular to yourself -- to what you makes YOU feel you are sharing God's Word.

Jesus said for us to love one another as he has. Let us follow Jesus example:
When he spoke to Fisherman, he used the language of Fishermen.
When Jesus spoke with Farmers, he used the language and experiences of Farmers.
When he spoke with Pharisees, yes he used Scripture but these ppl here are not of that category or calling,
Many are secular Gentiles under natural laws like the Farmers and Fishermen who learn from life's parables.

Can you please speak with us as Jesus spoke in natural terms? This will help.
And I would love to hear your personal story, if you can add it to your other threads.
That is the most meaningful and the most effective testimony you can give.

Look at the successful witnesses on GreenBean's post,
When they speak to fellow men and women to overcome "sexual issues"
they SPEAK using THEIR OWN experiences, similar to Jesus with the
Farmers and Fishermen, using things they understood IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE.

He did not preach to illiterate fishermen and farmers citing Bible scriptures,
but used PARABLES from real life to explain spiritual process and changes.

Can you do this?
Can you use your own words to describe the Kingdom of God to share with others?

Luddly hangover and Bruce here made it clear they do not receive anything expressed using the Bible which is not their language.

GISMYS would you speak English (for YOUR convenience) to a German or Japanese person who does not process any of what you are saying?

Please be considerate and wise.

If you do not respond to people preaching Muslim or Chinese to you,
please do not preach to others using a foreign language like speaking in tongues.

Jesus debated with Pharisees in the temple over scripture as their COMMON LANGUAGE.

Please establish common language first, as the people who post their own testimonies online which WORK because they speak from Personal experience.

Can you also share with us from your personal experiences that
changed your life spiritually
and see if people understand you better. Thanks GISMYS
if it doesn't fit the topic, please direct to one of your other threads.

SO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS SCRIPTURE VERSE??? For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet sought to please men, I should not be the servant of Christ. Galations 1:10

 

[RKMBrown]

repectifully, I'd like to point out that calling out homosexuals as having a some type of condition that needs to be healed, spiritually or not, is akin to me saying people like you have a condition that needs to be healed, that of using the bible as a weapon, a stone if you will, to disparage homosexuals for their sexual preference.

Hi [MENTION=43831]RKMBrown[/MENTION] this is a common misunderstanding and objection
but is not what I am saying or mean. I am talking about the spiritual process that isn't
about homosexuality per se but applies to all people and other types of cases totally unrelated to homosexuality.
it happens to be the same process people use who have changed and no longer consider themselves homosexual.
But that is NOT my focus but on the general healing process that applies to all people, so the target is NOT a focus on gays.
sorry this isn't clear.

if you read GreenBean's links to the testimonies of people who have changed their lives
and their lifestyles with it, they do NOT refer to this as an "illness" to be cured either.
they speak for themselves only, and that was what I was trying to respect, sorry.

They describe it in spiritual terms as a spiritual process of changing and/or healing
of past abuses that contributed.

these experiences are NOT TRUE for all people.
I only read one person who described having a sexual addiction
but this still does not apply to others, only him.

I tried to find the testimony of a Gay Priest
who expresses his spiritual experience and process of coming out
as accepting his purpose and calling in life to be celibate
so he can serve the church as his family.

So each person is different.

Even the people whose lives were healed and changed
do not refer to themselves as mentally ill.

sorry this wasn't clear. each person is different.
I was referring to people who did change their lives.

So whatever they call it, I was trying to describe it closer to the terms they use.
This still doesn't apply to all people, who can only describe their own lives.

Thx. Touchy subjects. Explains why prophets spoke vaguely using almost haiku like phrasing.

 

[Inevitable]

So it's right - when it suits your purposes , but wrong when it works against them !? That's pretty Childish - don't you think ??

They were wrong in thefirst place,they layer corrected their error.

Yes okay they "Layer" corrected it - uh hmmm - so what else did they do in Layers ?

Perhaps you should correct some of your errors - you seem to have them in abundance. Begginning with your choice of lifestyle

Perhaps you ought to formulate a valid argument then you wouldn't have to use typos to fool yourself into thinking you are smarter than others.

So far, I have made two errors in typing, you seem to make them often.

 

[Inevitable]

So then you exclude homosexuals from this ?

Did you not understand this part.

Please note that in my examples I never the specified genders of the involved individuals because it matters not to me whether it was a heterosexual or homosexual interaction.

Did you not nderstand that I am toying with you ?

However - you did culminate you post with the statement re: Mental Deficiencies - which by default would include homosexuals

"nderstand" that isn't a word. Fyi you completely suck at toying with people. So maybe give it a rest.

 

[Inevitable]

Did you not understand this part.

Did you not nderstand that I am toying with you ?

However - you did culminate you post with the statement re: Mental Deficiencies - which by default would include homosexuals

I understand that you think you are clever and and think that you are "toying" with me.
But did you notice how I ignored this,

I hear they can be very amicable and polite people - Have you had your stool pushed in by one lately ?

and this,

do you believe gays should have the rights to wean them off their mothers teats with the use of a "pacifier"

That's me not falling for your un-clever toying, or as spoken in the common tongue, Trolling.
Yer not nearly as clever as you think you are.

By the way, homosexuality has never been proven to be a mental deficiency. Science disagrees with.

His childish attempts to "toy" with people are pathetic.

 

[MaryL]

I like that, MYOB. I do. Part of my business is being true to myself. Gays never hurt me, and are no threat to me I am aware of. I am being honest. But, neither have schizophrenics or voyeurs. Neither have fetishist for feet. I don't feel that Homosexuals either should be seen separate from the mentally ill nor should they be treated as a class of people devoid of civil rights, especially when it comes down to marriage. This makes a mockery of heterosexual unions that produce children that ACTUALY deserve sanctity.

 

[GISMYS]

GOD'S PLAN FOR MAN WITH WOMAN MARRAGE==for Adam there was not found a helper meet for him.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof.

22 And the rib which the Lord God had taken from man, made He a woman and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, “This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.”

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife; and they shall be one flesh.
Genesis 2:20-24

 

[MaryL]

I remember when the medical profession used to endorse X-ray machines in shoe stores, and smoking. And, they still shill for whatever pharmaceutical company gets in their door, so don't give me this highly suspect malarkey "Med doctors say homosexuality isn't a mental illness" stuff. Follow the money, homosexuals are right up there with the tobacco companies, they have all that disposable income and a lot of self promoting to do. Please.

 

[Inevitable]

I remember when the medical profession used to endorse X-ray machines in shoe stores, and smoking. And, they still shill for whatever pharmaceutical company gets in their door, so don't give me this highly suspect malarkey "Med doctors say homosexuality isn't a mental illness" stuff. Follow the money, homosexuals are right up there with the tobacco companies, they have all that disposable income and a lot of self promoting to do. Please.

So you are saying that homosexuals have bought out the field of medicine and this have removed homosexuality from the lists of mental disorders even though there is clearly no psychosis caused by homosexuality, or are the homosexual shot callers suppressing that info also?

 

[GreenBean]

I remember when the medical profession used to endorse X-ray machines in shoe stores, and smoking. And, they still shill for whatever pharmaceutical company gets in their door, so don't give me this highly suspect malarkey "Med doctors say homosexuality isn't a mental illness" stuff. Follow the money, homosexuals are right up there with the tobacco companies, they have all that disposable income and a lot of self promoting to do. Please.

So you are saying that homosexuals have bought out the field of medicine and this have removed homosexuality from the lists of mental disorders even though there is clearly no psychosis caused by homosexuality, or are the homosexual shot callers suppressing that info also?

So you are saying that homosexuals have bought out the field of medicine

They have certainly comandeered the Mental Health field- this is well documtented - Even the US Congress has added their weight to this fact.

.

..have removed homosexuality from the lists of mental disorders even though there is clearly no psychosis caused by homosexuality,

False - repeatedly Refuted

 

[emilynghiem]

His childish attempts to "toy" with people are pathetic.

Dear [MENTION=49586]Inevitable[/MENTION] thanks again for putting up with all of this and us on your thread.
if there is any therapy going on, this is what it looks like. not a pretty process.

Please let's give GreenBean some credit.
He did post links that included references to real people
who attribute some of their experiences to sexual abuse.

People Can Change - An alternative, healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.

The same way "mental illness" is NOT a general factor
but only mentioned in reference to a specific case of "sexual addiction"
neither is "sexual abuse" a prevailing causal factor
but more correlated as a contributing incident along with other abuses.

the same link GreenBean provided that clarified
more spiritual things are going on than just "mental illness"
also provided one example of how "sexual abuse" can contribute in some cases
but not as the sole cause. So I concede that as well.

Please give him SOME credit for that.

And when he compared with Native American tendency or susceptibility to alcohol
or other addiction patterns, there is a comparable process there but if so it is more of
a "spiritual process" than a mental disorder.
both AA refer to alcoholism as a disease, but it is in the spirit where it is healed
before the mind and body follow. and the Center for Healing of Racism refers to racism as a disease passed down in the spirit. they do not refer to it as a mental disorder.
and they see all people as affected on different levels, so nobody is labeled anything.
they also focus on healing it in spirit first, then the mind, then relations in the world.
Again the links GB provided seem to follow a more "spiritual process" like these,
where each person's path is different and does not define anyone else but them.

I asked [MENTION=46353]GreenBean[/MENTION] if he could relate to the terms "healthy or unhealthy"
instead of mental illness. if we can find common terms we agree describe
what he is trying to say, we don't have to argue about terms we reject.

if he doesn't think homosexuality is healthy, that is something we could debate and why!

 

[Inevitable]

They have certainly comandeered the Mental Health field- this is well documtented - Even the US Congress has added their weight to this fact.

When you start talking about a mysterious "they" that seems to operate outside law and reason, with no proof, evidence or rational though behind it, I tend to believe you have created a conspiracy theory.

.

..have removed homosexuality from the lists of mental disorders even though there is clearly no psychosis caused by homosexuality,

False - repeatedly Refuted

Not with verifiable facts, just convenient bits of your poorly constructed conspiracy theory. Mercy you give me a good laugh.

 

[Inevitable]

Dear [MENTION=49586]Inevitable[/MENTION] thanks again for putting up with all of this and us on your thread.
if there is any therapy going on, this is what it looks like. not a pretty process.

Please let's give GreenBean some credit.
He did post links that included references to real people
who attribute some of their experiences to sexual abuse.

People Can Change - An alternative, healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.

[MENTION=22295]emilynghiem[/MENTION]First, no, I don't give greenbean any credit. He doesn't deserve any. He doesn't seem capable of posting an argument that isn't peppered with pathetic attempts to insult and childish name calling. Second I find the link to be dubious I will explain but first:

People Can Change exists to serve only the man who is dissatisfied with his homosexual feelings, dissatisfied with a homosexual life, and for whom pursuing change feels to him that it may be a healing path to his true self.

I don't believe sexual orientation is something that can be changed. As for those claiming to have changed, they are either one of three things: 1) lying to themselves. 2) they are bisexual. 3) heterosexuals that were simply experimenting.

If a short person was dissatisfied with feeling short, dissatisfied with short life and for whom pursuing change (getting taller) feels to him to be a healing path, can these people at "People can Change" make him taller? If not, I really don't buy thatthey can alter anything else. It's fraud.

The same way "mental illness" is NOT a general factor
but only mentioned in reference to a specific case of "sexual addiction"
neither is "sexual abuse" a prevailing causal factor
but more correlated as a contributing incident along with other abuses.

I don't believe sexual abuse is at all a contributing factor to homosexuality in any case any more than the phase of the moon at the time of birth.

the same link GreenBean provided that clarified
more spiritual things are going on than just "mental illness"
also provided one example of how "sexual abuse" can contribute in some cases
but not as the sole cause. So I concede that as well.

I don't buy thatsexual abuse is the slightest factor in any case with regard to sexual orientation.

Please give him SOME credit for that.

For what, finding a link to quacks that claim that you can Change" your sexual orientation? No, all one needs is to type that into Google.

And when he compared with Native American tendency or susceptibility to alcohol
or other addiction patterns, there is a comparable process there but if so it is more of
a "spiritual process" than a mental disorder.
both AA refer to alcoholism as a disease, but it is in the spirit where it is healed
before the mind and body follow.

I agree, but we aren't discussing addiction oranything at all related to addiction. I don't believe people are gay because they are addicted to being gay. That is like saying somebody is addicted to being attracted to the opposite sex because they prefer romantic partners of the opposite sex. I don't wish to discuss sexual addiction because it in no way relates to sexual orientation.

and the Center for Healing of Racism refers to racism as a disease passed down in the spirit. they do not refer to it as a mental disorder.
and they see all people as affected on different levels, so nobody is labeled anything.
they also focus on healing it in spirit first, then the mind, then relations in the world.
Again the links GB provided seem to follow a more "spiritual process" like these,
where each person's path is different and does not define anyone else but them.

Racism is an idea that is taught by adults to children. I don't believe sexual orientation is taught to people any more than a tall person was taught to be tall. I don't believe spiritual healing has any effect what so ever on sexual orientation, Amy more thanspiritual healing can make a short person taller.

I am sorry, I just don't believe that sexual orientation is a symptom of sexual abuse in any case. I find the idea rather demeaning and preposterous. Sexual addictions, sexual proclivities, and sexual obsessions are all unrelated to sexual orientation and therefore have nothing to do with this discussion. To say somebody could spiritually heal from say a sexual obsession would not really have any effect on their orientation.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I like that, MYOB. I do. Part of my business is being true to myself. Gays never hurt me, and are no threat to me I am aware of. I am being honest. But, neither have schizophrenics or voyeurs. Neither have fetishist for feet. I don't feel that Homosexuals either should be seen separate from the mentally ill nor should they be treated as a class of people devoid of civil rights, especially when it comes down to marriage. This makes a mockery of heterosexual unions that produce children that ACTUALY deserve sanctity.

Injustice concerns us all. MYOB is not a valid way to go about your life. Think back to the racial injustices of the 50s. Where would minding our own business have led?

For laws to be considered just and right they must be applied equally to all regardless of irrelevant differences. In the case of marriage, because all religious institutions (who have marriage) may perform them and those marriages be equally acknowledged under the law, a religion which may not object to same-0sex marriages must also receive that recognition by the government. To recognize some, but not all is unjust. Simple as that.

 

[GISMYS]

GOD'S PLAN FOR MAN WITH WOMAN MARRAGE==for Adam there was not found a helper meet for him.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof.

22 And the rib which the Lord God had taken from man, made He a woman and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, “This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.”

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife; and they shall be one flesh.
Genesis 2:20-24