Is it moral for God to punish us?

[PostmodernProph]

Sinners get into heaven because Jesus already paid the sin bill on the cross? So no need to stop sinning? Hey! That's what I said!

but it was all the other irrational stuff you said that I objected to......

So if sinners go to heaven, what's hell for?

such as it exists, those who refuse to believe in him.....

Isn't not believing in him a form of sin? And you say hell exists, got any proof?

yes it is.....wasn't it your specific intent to reject him and his offer of salvation.....as to whether hell exists, the scriptures say that those who reject Jesus will not be with him in paradise.......what will happen to you is none of my concern, so I see no need to speculate......

 

[PostmodernProph]

He died on the cross for my sins. In other words, he's already paid for my food, why would I pay for it again? I'll take a free lunch anytime.

but you have refused his payment......isn't it illogical to refuse it and then say you accepted it?......

No, I've always said that I accept JC paying the debt for my sins on the cross. No prob. I pretty much let anyone pick up any tab I've run up. It just makes sense.

odd, I believe you've also said you don't believe he exists.....

Never said that ever.

easy enough to clear up then......do you believe Jesus is the human incarnation of God and accept that he died on the cross to save you from your sins?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

He died on the cross for my sins. In other words, he's already paid for my food, why would I pay for it again? I'll take a free lunch anytime.

but you have refused his payment......isn't it illogical to refuse it and then say you accepted it?......

No, I've always said that I accept JC paying the debt for my sins on the cross. No prob. I pretty much let anyone pick up any tab I've run up. It just makes sense.

By continuing in your sin, you make a lie of your claim that you accepted His payment for said sin. You did not repent at all.

PostM says I don't have to stop sinning or even repent.

That's not what Jesus says. Personally, I'm going with Him.

not what I said either.....

 

[JakeStarkey]

God is God and iamwhatiseem is merely a gnostic misbeliever.

 

[Mudda]

No, I've always said that I accept JC paying the debt for my sins on the cross. No prob. I pretty much let anyone pick up any tab I've run up. It just makes sense.

By continuing in your sin, you make a lie of your claim that you accepted His payment for said sin. You did not repent at all.

PostM says I don't have to stop sinning or even repent.

why do you troll and say ridiculous things?......are you bored with life?......why not volunteer to help people instead?.....

That's what you said. I didn't have to make it up. You said sinners go to heaven.

and what part did you choose to ignore?.....be honest now.......did you really forget the repenting part or did you just feel it was more fun to lie about it?.........

This is what you said: "but that is an inaccurate description of what Christianity teaches......you cannot stop sinning, you are a human being......you not only have a chance, but an assurance of heaven if you believe in Jesus Christ as your savior......(John 3)......there is no requirement of personal righteousness for admission......."

So if no one can stop sinning and still go to heaven... ipso facto, sinners go to heaven.

 

[Mudda]

Sinners get into heaven because Jesus already paid the sin bill on the cross? So no need to stop sinning? Hey! That's what I said!

but it was all the other irrational stuff you said that I objected to......

So if sinners go to heaven, what's hell for?

such as it exists, those who refuse to believe in him.....

Isn't not believing in him a form of sin? And you say hell exists, got any proof?

yes it is.....wasn't it your specific intent to reject him and his offer of salvation.....as to whether hell exists, the scriptures say that those who reject Jesus will not be with him in paradise.......what will happen to you is none of my concern, so I see no need to speculate......

As an agnostic, if Jesus is real, I accept him, if he's a myth, I don't accept him. I'm waiting for proof either way first before making up my mind. Jesus,god, heaven... are all still at the rumour stage, cool concepts if real though, but so is the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and the jury is still out on him as well.

 

[Mudda]

He died on the cross for my sins. In other words, he's already paid for my food, why would I pay for it again? I'll take a free lunch anytime.

but you have refused his payment......isn't it illogical to refuse it and then say you accepted it?......

No, I've always said that I accept JC paying the debt for my sins on the cross. No prob. I pretty much let anyone pick up any tab I've run up. It just makes sense.

odd, I believe you've also said you don't believe he exists.....

Never said that ever.

easy enough to clear up then......do you believe Jesus is the human incarnation of God and accept that he died on the cross to save you from your sins?......

I believe that that is possible, but not proven to me yet. Therefore, it would seem illogical for me to reject outright your statement. My search for proof is ongoing, but so far fruitless.

 

[hobelim]

I believe that that is possible, but not proven to me yet. Therefore, it would seem illogical for me to reject outright your statement. My search for proof is ongoing, but so far fruitless.

Try ruminating. According to scripture God is incorporeal and has no visible shape or material form. If this is true then there never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before during or after their human existence.

Jesus said that he was taught by God and sent by God and that God was the source of his being.

Any being whose existence is caused by God cannot be God.

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father, my God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his God is our God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

His enemies tried to discredit Jesus by saying that he claimed to be God because just like today even in the first century anyone who claimed to be God would be completely insane.

 

[Mudda]

I believe that that is possible, but not proven to me yet. Therefore, it would seem illogical for me to reject outright your statement. My search for proof is ongoing, but so far fruitless.

Try ruminating. According to scripture, God is incorporeal and has no visible shape or material form. If this is true then there never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before during or after their human existence.

Jesus said that he was taught by God and sent by God and that God was the source of his being.

Any being whose existence is caused by God cannot be God.

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father, my God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his God is our God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

His enemies tried to discredit Jesus by saying that he claimed to be God because even in the first century anyone who claimed to be God would be insane.

"According to scripture", which also has not been proven to be anything else than malarkey. No proof there.

 

[hobelim]

I believe that that is possible, but not proven to me yet. Therefore, it would seem illogical for me to reject outright your statement. My search for proof is ongoing, but so far fruitless.

Try ruminating. According to scripture, God is incorporeal and has no visible shape or material form. If this is true then there never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before during or after their human existence.

Jesus said that he was taught by God and sent by God and that God was the source of his being.

Any being whose existence is caused by God cannot be God.

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father, my God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his God is our God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

His enemies tried to discredit Jesus by saying that he claimed to be God because even in the first century anyone who claimed to be God would be insane.

"According to scripture", which also has not been proven to be anything else than malarkey. No proof there.

So why would you think there was even a slight possibility that Jesus was God? Your search for proof is fruitless?

How is it illogical to reject that claim?

 

[hobelim]

"According to scripture", which also has not been proven to be anything else than malarkey. No proof there.

Whether the Bible is complete malarky and was written by a collection of nut jobs or whether it is the dictated word of God people like postmodernprophet profess beliefs, like Jesus was God incarnate, that they claim to be based on those written words.

By comparing such claims to what is actually written using the reasoning abilities of a second grade child you will find proof enough to spare about whether what they profess to believe is either true or false..

I mean, if their professed beliefs do not even jibe with what could amount to malarky you can at least be 100% sure that they are full of shit.

 

[PostmodernProph]

By continuing in your sin, you make a lie of your claim that you accepted His payment for said sin. You did not repent at all.

PostM says I don't have to stop sinning or even repent.

why do you troll and say ridiculous things?......are you bored with life?......why not volunteer to help people instead?.....

That's what you said. I didn't have to make it up. You said sinners go to heaven.

and what part did you choose to ignore?.....be honest now.......did you really forget the repenting part or did you just feel it was more fun to lie about it?.........

This is what you said: "but that is an inaccurate description of what Christianity teaches......you cannot stop sinning, you are a human being......you not only have a chance, but an assurance of heaven if you believe in Jesus Christ as your savior......(John 3)......there is no requirement of personal righteousness for admission......."

So if no one can stop sinning and still go to heaven... ipso facto, sinners go to heaven.

that is true......but this is what YOU said I said......
"PostM says I don't have to stop sinning or even repent".....now I will acknowledge that you, like everyone else, is incapable of stopping sinning....but I am puzzled about this claim that I said you didn't have to repent.......why did you make up that part?......a shallow attempt to make me look bad?.......sheer ignorance?.....what was your motivation?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

but it was all the other irrational stuff you said that I objected to......

So if sinners go to heaven, what's hell for?

such as it exists, those who refuse to believe in him.....

Isn't not believing in him a form of sin? And you say hell exists, got any proof?

yes it is.....wasn't it your specific intent to reject him and his offer of salvation.....as to whether hell exists, the scriptures say that those who reject Jesus will not be with him in paradise.......what will happen to you is none of my concern, so I see no need to speculate......

As an agnostic, if Jesus is real, I accept him, if he's a myth, I don't accept him. I'm waiting for proof either way first before making up my mind. Jesus,god, heaven... are all still at the rumour stage, cool concepts if real though, but so is the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and the jury is still out on him as well.

but you will never receive proof...so by demanding proof you will never receive, you choose to refuse him......

 

[Mudda]

I believe that that is possible, but not proven to me yet. Therefore, it would seem illogical for me to reject outright your statement. My search for proof is ongoing, but so far fruitless.

Try ruminating. According to scripture, God is incorporeal and has no visible shape or material form. If this is true then there never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before during or after their human existence.

Jesus said that he was taught by God and sent by God and that God was the source of his being.

Any being whose existence is caused by God cannot be God.

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father, my God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his God is our God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

His enemies tried to discredit Jesus by saying that he claimed to be God because even in the first century anyone who claimed to be God would be insane.

"According to scripture", which also has not been proven to be anything else than malarkey. No proof there.

So why would you think there was even a slight possibility that Jesus was God? Your search for proof is fruitless?

How is it illogical to reject that claim?

I'm very familiar with the bible and I don't find it to be proof of anything. It suggests that jesus is god. Okay. Could be. But the bible isn't proof.

 

[Mudda]

PostM says I don't have to stop sinning or even repent.

why do you troll and say ridiculous things?......are you bored with life?......why not volunteer to help people instead?.....

That's what you said. I didn't have to make it up. You said sinners go to heaven.

and what part did you choose to ignore?.....be honest now.......did you really forget the repenting part or did you just feel it was more fun to lie about it?.........

This is what you said: "but that is an inaccurate description of what Christianity teaches......you cannot stop sinning, you are a human being......you not only have a chance, but an assurance of heaven if you believe in Jesus Christ as your savior......(John 3)......there is no requirement of personal righteousness for admission......."

So if no one can stop sinning and still go to heaven... ipso facto, sinners go to heaven.

that is true......but this is what YOU said I said......
"PostM says I don't have to stop sinning or even repent".....now I will acknowledge that you, like everyone else, is incapable of stopping sinning....but I am puzzled about this claim that I said you didn't have to repent.......why did you make up that part?......a shallow attempt to make me look bad?.......sheer ignorance?.....what was your motivation?......

"there is no requirement of personal righteousness for admission". To me, that clearly says no requirement to stop sinning. Maybe you'd like to rephrase it?

 

[Mudda]

So if sinners go to heaven, what's hell for?

such as it exists, those who refuse to believe in him.....

Isn't not believing in him a form of sin? And you say hell exists, got any proof?

yes it is.....wasn't it your specific intent to reject him and his offer of salvation.....as to whether hell exists, the scriptures say that those who reject Jesus will not be with him in paradise.......what will happen to you is none of my concern, so I see no need to speculate......

As an agnostic, if Jesus is real, I accept him, if he's a myth, I don't accept him. I'm waiting for proof either way first before making up my mind. Jesus,god, heaven... are all still at the rumour stage, cool concepts if real though, but so is the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and the jury is still out on him as well.

but you will never receive proof...so by demanding proof you will never receive, you choose to refuse him......

I can't refuse or accept something that has no proof that it exists. That would be illogical, if not simply a theoretical endeavour. In which case, ya, sure, theoretically, if the bible is true, I'm in.

 

[PostmodernProph]

why do you troll and say ridiculous things?......are you bored with life?......why not volunteer to help people instead?.....

That's what you said. I didn't have to make it up. You said sinners go to heaven.

and what part did you choose to ignore?.....be honest now.......did you really forget the repenting part or did you just feel it was more fun to lie about it?.........

This is what you said: "but that is an inaccurate description of what Christianity teaches......you cannot stop sinning, you are a human being......you not only have a chance, but an assurance of heaven if you believe in Jesus Christ as your savior......(John 3)......there is no requirement of personal righteousness for admission......."

So if no one can stop sinning and still go to heaven... ipso facto, sinners go to heaven.

that is true......but this is what YOU said I said......
"PostM says I don't have to stop sinning or even repent".....now I will acknowledge that you, like everyone else, is incapable of stopping sinning....but I am puzzled about this claim that I said you didn't have to repent.......why did you make up that part?......a shallow attempt to make me look bad?.......sheer ignorance?.....what was your motivation?......

"there is no requirement of personal righteousness for admission". To me, that clearly says no requirement to stop sinning. Maybe you'd like to rephrase it?

again you step around what I said.......does the word "repent" leave such a bad taste in your mouth that you refuse to repeat it?.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

I can't refuse or accept something that has no proof that it exists. That would be illogical, if not simply a theoretical endeavour. In which case, ya, sure, theoretically, if the bible is true, I'm in.

lol.....you don't NEED to accept or refuse something that has proof it exists.......if it has proof you would look like a fool in rejecting it........it is only those things which have no proof which leave you the option of accepting or rejecting.......

 

[hobelim]

I believe that that is possible, but not proven to me yet. Therefore, it would seem illogical for me to reject outright your statement. My search for proof is ongoing, but so far fruitless.

Try ruminating. According to scripture, God is incorporeal and has no visible shape or material form. If this is true then there never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before during or after their human existence.

Jesus said that he was taught by God and sent by God and that God was the source of his being.

Any being whose existence is caused by God cannot be God.

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father, my God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his God is our God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

His enemies tried to discredit Jesus by saying that he claimed to be God because even in the first century anyone who claimed to be God would be insane.

"According to scripture", which also has not been proven to be anything else than malarkey. No proof there.

So why would you think there was even a slight possibility that Jesus was God? Your search for proof is fruitless?

How is it illogical to reject that claim?

I'm very familiar with the bible and I don't find it to be proof of anything. It suggests that jesus is god. Okay. Could be. But the bible isn't proof.

I didn't say that the bible was proof of anything. I said that beliefs that some people claim are based on the Bible, like Jesus is God, can easily be proven false if what they claim contradicts what is written, which it does..

And no, the bible does not suggest that Jesus was God. Even if it did why would you have any problem rejecting the claim that a human being was God incarnate?

 

[Mudda]

I believe that that is possible, but not proven to me yet. Therefore, it would seem illogical for me to reject outright your statement. My search for proof is ongoing, but so far fruitless.

Try ruminating. According to scripture, God is incorporeal and has no visible shape or material form. If this is true then there never was and never will be a human being that was God or became God either before during or after their human existence.

Jesus said that he was taught by God and sent by God and that God was the source of his being.

Any being whose existence is caused by God cannot be God.

"But go and tell my brothers that I am ascending to my Father and your Father, my God and your God." John 20:17

By saying that his God is our God Jesus effectively eliminated any possibility that he thought of himself as God or claimed to be God.

His enemies tried to discredit Jesus by saying that he claimed to be God because even in the first century anyone who claimed to be God would be insane.

"According to scripture", which also has not been proven to be anything else than malarkey. No proof there.

So why would you think there was even a slight possibility that Jesus was God? Your search for proof is fruitless?

How is it illogical to reject that claim?

I'm very familiar with the bible and I don't find it to be proof of anything. It suggests that jesus is god. Okay. Could be. But the bible isn't proof.

I didn't say that the bible was proof of anything. I said that beliefs that some people claim are based on the Bible, like Jesus is God, can easily be proven false if what they claim contradicts what is written, which it does..

And no, the bible does not suggest that Jesus was God. Even if it did why would you have any problem rejecting the claim that a human being was God incarnate?

If the bible isn't proof of anything then why did you quote it as a comeback to what I said earlier?