Is it moral for God to punish us?

[Mudda]

As you know, there is no evidence that Jesus was even a real person. I'm just going on what Jesus groupies made up and believe.

???....then why are all your posts filled with what YOU made up and believe instead of what "Jesus groupies" believe?......

I may have a colorful way of stating things, but my info is spot on. You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong.

 

[PostmodernProph]

As you know, there is no evidence that Jesus was even a real person. I'm just going on what Jesus groupies made up and believe.

???....then why are all your posts filled with what YOU made up and believe instead of what "Jesus groupies" believe?......

I may have a colorful way of stating things, but my info is spot on. You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong.

for example. I pointed out that Christianity does not teach that heaven is attained by personal righteousness......you made absolutely no response to that......your claim wasn't "colorful".....it was false......

 

[Mudda]

As you know, there is no evidence that Jesus was even a real person. I'm just going on what Jesus groupies made up and believe.

???....then why are all your posts filled with what YOU made up and believe instead of what "Jesus groupies" believe?......

I may have a colorful way of stating things, but my info is spot on. You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong.

for example. I pointed out that Christianity does not teach that heaven is attained by personal righteousness......you made absolutely no response to that......your claim wasn't "colorful".....it was false......

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

 

[hobelim]

As you know, there is no evidence that Jesus was even a real person. I'm just going on what Jesus groupies made up and believe.

???....then why are all your posts filled with what YOU made up and believe instead of what "Jesus groupies" believe?......

I may have a colorful way of stating things, but my info is spot on. You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong.

for example. I pointed out that Christianity does not teach that heaven is attained by personal righteousness......you made absolutely no response to that......your claim wasn't "colorful".....it was false......

Christians are at best irrational and what Christianity teaches is illogical.

Righteousness is obedience to the law. If one does not conform to the divine commands they cannot be righteous and no one can receive the promise of life for obedience to the law unless they are righteous.

Jesus, by teaching the only right way to understand and conform to the divine commands that leads to the fulfillment of the promise of life made salvation possible but only for those who receive his teaching, eat his flesh, and do it.


"Sin is disobedience to the law; sin, in fact, is lawlessness. The Son of God appeared, as you know, so that he might do away with sin. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

My children, do not let anyone mislead you. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as God is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother"

1 John 3;4-10

 

[PostmodernProph]

As you know, there is no evidence that Jesus was even a real person. I'm just going on what Jesus groupies made up and believe.

???....then why are all your posts filled with what YOU made up and believe instead of what "Jesus groupies" believe?......

I may have a colorful way of stating things, but my info is spot on. You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong.

for example. I pointed out that Christianity does not teach that heaven is attained by personal righteousness......you made absolutely no response to that......your claim wasn't "colorful".....it was false......

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

"You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong."

 

[PostmodernProph]

As you know, there is no evidence that Jesus was even a real person. I'm just going on what Jesus groupies made up and believe.

???....then why are all your posts filled with what YOU made up and believe instead of what "Jesus groupies" believe?......

I may have a colorful way of stating things, but my info is spot on. You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong.

for example. I pointed out that Christianity does not teach that heaven is attained by personal righteousness......you made absolutely no response to that......your claim wasn't "colorful".....it was false......

Christians are at best irrational and what Christianity teaches is illogical.

and what is it that you are saying Christianity teaches that is illogical?.....

 

[hobelim]

and what is it that you are saying Christianity teaches that is illogical?.....

That heaven is not attained by personal righteousness.

The belief that the promise of eternal life is given to sinners by some other means than by doing what is right is nonsense.

 

[PostmodernProph]

and what is it that you are saying Christianity teaches that is illogical?.....

That heaven is not attained by personal righteousness.

The belief that the promise of eternal life is given to sinners by some other means than by doing what is right is nonsense.

do you consider all gifts to be illogical?.....to me it would seem to be illogical to say that eternal life is earned by righteousness when even a cursory examination of human nature reveals that no one is righteous.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

my wife used to have this on our refrigerator.....

Dear Lord,
So far I've done all right.
I haven't gossipped,
haven't lost my temper,
haven't been greedy, grumpy, nasty, selfish, or overindulgent.
I'm really glad about that.

But in a few minutes, God,
I'm going to get out of bed.
And from then on,
I'm going to need a lot more help.

 

[PostmodernProph]

does your religion believe in forgiveness?.......

or, like Judaism, is atonement achieved by sacrifice?.......

 

[Mudda]

As you know, there is no evidence that Jesus was even a real person. I'm just going on what Jesus groupies made up and believe.

???....then why are all your posts filled with what YOU made up and believe instead of what "Jesus groupies" believe?......

I may have a colorful way of stating things, but my info is spot on. You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong.

for example. I pointed out that Christianity does not teach that heaven is attained by personal righteousness......you made absolutely no response to that......your claim wasn't "colorful".....it was false......

Christians are at best irrational and what Christianity teaches is illogical.

and what is it that you are saying Christianity teaches that is illogical?.....

The 40 day worldwide flood, the parting of the sea, walking on water, making a woman out of a man's rib, a talking snake, a burning bush that talks and writes tablets, a guy who dies on the cross to absolve you of your sins but not really because you still pay for your sins in the end (Hell), ...

 

[Mudda]

As you know, there is no evidence that Jesus was even a real person. I'm just going on what Jesus groupies made up and believe.

???....then why are all your posts filled with what YOU made up and believe instead of what "Jesus groupies" believe?......

I may have a colorful way of stating things, but my info is spot on. You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong.

for example. I pointed out that Christianity does not teach that heaven is attained by personal righteousness......you made absolutely no response to that......your claim wasn't "colorful".....it was false......

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

"You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong."

Ok, got me there, lol.
If I don't repent my sins and live a godly life, I'll go to hell. There you have "personal" as I have to do it or I go to hell, and "righteousness" as I have to stop sinning and live a bring a supposed higher moral standard to my life to have any chance of going to heaven.

 

[Mudda]

^^^^^ Little typo, should have been:

If I don't repent my sins and live a godly life, I'll go to hell. There you have "personal" as I have to do it or I go to hell, and "righteousness" as I have to stop sinning and bring a supposed higher moral standard to my life to have any chance of going to heaven.

 

[hobelim]

and what is it that you are saying Christianity teaches that is illogical?.....

That heaven is not attained by personal righteousness.

The belief that the promise of eternal life is given to sinners by some other means than by doing what is right is nonsense.

do you consider all gifts to be illogical?.....to me it would seem to be illogical to say that eternal life is earned by righteousness when even a cursory examination of human nature reveals that no one is righteous.......

Speak for yourself.

If you are a sinner, I suggest that you strive to live a better life.

It really isn't that hard to live without sin..... if you know the difference between right and wrong.


Do not worship false gods, do not bear false witness, do not eat the flesh of unclean creatures that do not ruminate, etc.


Maybe your problem is that you worship a false triune god, bear false witness, eat the flesh of unclean creatures that do not ruminate and as a reward are suffering the consequences, death, and have descended into the netherworld, the realm of the dead, and have lost the ability think rationally. Without the ability to think rationally, the light and life of comprehension will continue to remain above your grasp.

I hate to break the news to you but it really isn't that hard to not worship a trinity or to not lie to other people about salvation or to refrain from the teachings of unclean creatures that do not ruminate...If you look carefully you might notice that these laws don't require you to actually do anything. How hard is that?

You should at least give it a try....

 

[hobelim]

does your religion believe in forgiveness?.......

or, like Judaism, is atonement achieved by sacrifice?.......

Jesus said that if a person comes to you repenting for some wrong that they did saying "I'm sorry" 70 times you are to forgive them. He did not say to forgive those who do not repent and continue to sin.

And the Laws concerning ritual sacrifice are not about slaughtering farm animals in the same way that when Jesus said that when he returned he would say" But as for those enemies of mine who would not have me for their king, bring them here and slaughter them in my presence", Luke 19:27, he was not speaking about murdering Jews.

 

[PostmodernProph]

???....then why are all your posts filled with what YOU made up and believe instead of what "Jesus groupies" believe?......

I may have a colorful way of stating things, but my info is spot on. You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong.

for example. I pointed out that Christianity does not teach that heaven is attained by personal righteousness......you made absolutely no response to that......your claim wasn't "colorful".....it was false......

Christians are at best irrational and what Christianity teaches is illogical.

and what is it that you are saying Christianity teaches that is illogical?.....

The 40 day worldwide flood, the parting of the sea, walking on water, making a woman out of a man's rib, a talking snake, a burning bush that talks and writes tablets, a guy who dies on the cross to absolve you of your sins but not really because you still pay for your sins in the end (Hell), ...

miracles and allegories are easily misunderstood by unbelievers, but this last one has me confused.....why do you pretend that Christianity teaches Christ died for our sins but we still have to pay for them in hell?.......that is not what Christianity teaches.....unless you are complaining that those who refuse to accept salvation still have to pay for their sins......that however would not be logical......if someone offered to buy you lunch but you refused to accept it, would you consider it illogical for the restaurant to expect payment?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

???....then why are all your posts filled with what YOU made up and believe instead of what "Jesus groupies" believe?......

I may have a colorful way of stating things, but my info is spot on. You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong.

for example. I pointed out that Christianity does not teach that heaven is attained by personal righteousness......you made absolutely no response to that......your claim wasn't "colorful".....it was false......

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

"You say that I'm wrong but don't show that I'm wrong."

Ok, got me there, lol.
If I don't repent my sins and live a godly life, I'll go to hell. There you have "personal" as I have to do it or I go to hell, and "righteousness" as I have to stop sinning and live a bring a supposed higher moral standard to my life to have any chance of going to heaven.

but that is an inaccurate description of what Christianity teaches......you cannot stop sinning, you are a human being......you not only have a chance, but an assurance of heaven if you believe in Jesus Christ as your savior......(John 3)......there is no requirement of personal righteousness for admission.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

It really isn't that hard to live without sin..... if you know the difference between right and wrong.

.

and yet you just bore false witness....../grins......

you must have a very limited vision of sin to believe that......does your religion teach that you merely have to avoid doing ten bad things in order to be sin free?.......Jesus corrected that misconception in the Sermon on the Mount.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

or to refrain from the teachings of unclean creatures that do not ruminate. .

just out of curiosity, which religion do non-ruminating creatures teach?.....

 

[PostmodernProph]

does your religion believe in forgiveness?.......

or, like Judaism, is atonement achieved by sacrifice?.......

Jesus said that if a person comes to you repenting for some wrong that they did saying "I'm sorry" 70 times you are to forgive them. He did not say to forgive those who do not repent and continue to sin.

And the Laws concerning ritual sacrifice are not about slaughtering farm animals in the same way that when Jesus said that when he returned he would say" But as for those enemies of mine who would not have me for their king, bring them here and slaughter them in my presence", Luke 19:27, he was not speaking about murdering Jews.

????.....I had no intention of murdering Jews when I asked the question.....I was inquiring if you, like the Jews, believed in maintaining personal righteousness by burnt offerings.......however, from your previous posts it is obvious that you believe you can maintain righteousness through perfect living......however, those of us who are merely human cannot aspire to that.....for us, as promised in scripture, all our sins are washed away by the blood of Christ.........