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Because this is a chat board, we're trying to discuss free will as only 2 choices, god or roasting, or whether free will means exactly that, I can choose another way. And whether the choice of god or roasting is even a choice, and I argue isn't, it's a threat. If this type of discussion is too difficult for you, maybe you should just bow out and go sing the one about Jesus turning water into wine because he wanted to party.perhaps not, but still obviously irrational......why would anyone who had the free will to choose neither, waste their time here whining about some nonexistent deity who forces them to choose between two alternatives......Not an atheist. That aside, if I have free will then I choose neither hell nor god. Boy, that was actually pretty easy.????......mass murder?......you die, I die, everyone dies........you decide you want to go to hell, I decide I want to go to paradise.....we both get what we choose.......where does mass murder come into it?......So god's getting getting to do mass murder? What a fucking douche he must be.
why are atheists so irrational?......
No invisible god has ever put down any rules I know of, the ones in the bible were made up by men as far as anyone can tell.if you can talk a deity into changing his rules, that might work for you.......or as an alternative you could simply become powerful enough to impose your will upon us all, as you seem to believe he has.......God never offered me a choice, in fact, he's never said anything to me. Anyways, free choice means that I get to choose what I want, and I choose neither god nor hell.why ask such a silly question.......I do not claim to be better or more knowledgeable or a right to judge.......God is better, more knowledgeable and has the right to judge.......he's the one who offers you the choice.......if you decide not to take it, quit whining about it......its what you decided.......What makes you better, more knowledgeable or have the right to judge others for what they know or believe?
So god's getting getting to do mass murder? What a fucking douche he must be.So is God pissed off that not many people want to repent? And a whole shitload of people don't even think that he exists?Is it moral for God to punish us?
Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?
We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.
For example.
God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.
Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.
Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.
Do you agree?
If not, why not?
Regards
DL
How twisted your thinking is---you listen to teachers of darkness and make decisions upon that basis.
No our lives are not preordained--God cannot see ones future like that-- He desires all to repent, so he does not know beforehand who will or wont. He can however see the patterns of the mortal heart and know--Few will repent. --the future he shared was his will being accomplished.
He isn't pissed off-- He set before everyone--life or death- Deuteronomy 30:19)-- we must choose--by our actions. If one reads the bible from front to back, a few times they find---for the majority of mankinds history= 99% mislead. so true of today--these are the last days.
No invisible god has ever put down any rules I know of, the ones in the bible were made up by men as far as anyone can tell.if you can talk a deity into changing his rules, that might work for you.......or as an alternative you could simply become powerful enough to impose your will upon us all, as you seem to believe he has.......God never offered me a choice, in fact, he's never said anything to me. Anyways, free choice means that I get to choose what I want, and I choose neither god nor hell.why ask such a silly question.......I do not claim to be better or more knowledgeable or a right to judge.......God is better, more knowledgeable and has the right to judge.......he's the one who offers you the choice.......if you decide not to take it, quit whining about it......its what you decided.......What makes you better, more knowledgeable or have the right to judge others for what they know or believe?
My claims about Christianity are correct, you have not refuted a single one except to say that I'm wrong, without giving a reason. As for my possibly being a tad obnoxious, well, I'm not trying to suck up to the invisible Big Guy now, am I? But do YOU really think that he'll let in obnoxious little haters who think that it's ok to call some people abnormal for the way they are born? Me thinks not.lol.....but you aren't being obnoxious by suggesting I will go to hell?.....or in all your inaccurate claims about Christianity?.......No, you're trying to be obnoxious again, trying (and failing) to suggest that I think Adolf went to heaven.Its not my fault you make inaccurate assumptions........quite obviously its your fault......Can't you read? I just said to say hi to Adolf because obnoxious people go to hell. But you didn't get, I know.do you feel he will be in heaven?.......
???....a reason?......they are wrong because they are false statements........when you make shit up it shoudn't surprise you when people respond and point it out......My claims about Christianity are correct, you have not refuted a single one except to say that I'm wrong, without giving a reason.
it is scientifically accurate to point out that having a sexual reaction to a stimulus from someone of the same sex is abnormal......that does not make me a hater.......it simply makes me someone who understands biology........But do YOU really think that he'll let in obnoxious little haters who think that it's ok to call some people abnormal for the way they are born?
however, it would seem that you are faced with a dilemma......if God offers paradise to those who choose to believe in him.....and leaves those who refuse to fend for themselves outside of paradise in rather unpleasant circumstances, by making your third choice it would see there will have to be one of two possible results.......either God will have to create a third place to accommodate your choice or you will have to arrange for that creation on your own........do you feel up to the challenge?......Because this is a chat board, we're trying to discuss free will as only 2 choices, god or roasting, or whether free will means exactly that, I can choose another way.
then again, why are you here whining about it?........No invisible god has ever put down any rules I know of, the ones in the bible were made up by men as far as anyone can tell.
So you have no answer so you decided to be obnoxious again? Gee what a surprise.then again, why are you here whining about it?........No invisible god has ever put down any rules I know of, the ones in the bible were made up by men as far as anyone can tell.
God did make a third way, you can reincarnate right here on earth, that would be my choice. And apparently a lot of other people have chosen that path since stories of reincarnation are plentiful around the world.however, it would seem that you are faced with a dilemma......if God offers paradise to those who choose to believe in him.....and leaves those who refuse to fend for themselves outside of paradise in rather unpleasant circumstances, by making your third choice it would see there will have to be one of two possible results.......either God will have to create a third place to accommodate your choice or you will have to arrange for that creation on your own........do you feel up to the challenge?......Because this is a chat board, we're trying to discuss free will as only 2 choices, god or roasting, or whether free will means exactly that, I can choose another way.
So you can be an obnoxious little hater and still get into heaven like you're counting on? Ummm... no.it is scientifically accurate to point out that having a sexual reaction to a stimulus from someone of the same sex is abnormal......that does not make me a hater.......it simply makes me someone who understands biology........But do YOU really think that he'll let in obnoxious little haters who think that it's ok to call some people abnormal for the way they are born?
finally, entry into heaven, so Christianity teaches, hinges upon acceptance of Jesus Christ as a personal savior (see John 3) not their knowledge of biology.......again, illustrating your lack of knowledge regarding Christianity......
Next time, explain why they are wrong, that's what a chat board is for, ideas going back and forth, not just to slag someone off with every response like you have a tendency to do. That must be a Jesus thing.???....a reason?......they are wrong because they are false statements........when you make shit up it shoudn't surprise you when people respond and point it out......My claims about Christianity are correct, you have not refuted a single one except to say that I'm wrong, without giving a reason.
Since god didn't tell you or anyone that he inspired the bible, I guess that's on the level of wishful thinking. Maybe the real god is completely different.No invisible god has ever put down any rules I know of, the ones in the bible were made up by men as far as anyone can tell.if you can talk a deity into changing his rules, that might work for you.......or as an alternative you could simply become powerful enough to impose your will upon us all, as you seem to believe he has.......God never offered me a choice, in fact, he's never said anything to me. Anyways, free choice means that I get to choose what I want, and I choose neither god nor hell.why ask such a silly question.......I do not claim to be better or more knowledgeable or a right to judge.......God is better, more knowledgeable and has the right to judge.......he's the one who offers you the choice.......if you decide not to take it, quit whining about it......its what you decided.......What makes you better, more knowledgeable or have the right to judge others for what they know or believe?
God inspired the words through men.-- there are sayings in the ot about outer space that no mortal could have known back in those days-- The whole world has been watching Rev 13 pass before their eyes for years now--but its just as Jesus taught it would be---As in the days of Noah( 99% mislead) the world took no note.
The lesson of Jesus is that if you're generally a pussy, have backstabbing friends and try to overthrow the established order, they nail you to wood.So god's getting getting to do mass murder? What a fucking douche he must be.So is God pissed off that not many people want to repent? And a whole shitload of people don't even think that he exists?Is it moral for God to punish us?
Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?
We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.
For example.
God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.
Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.
Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.
Do you agree?
If not, why not?
Regards
DL
How twisted your thinking is---you listen to teachers of darkness and make decisions upon that basis.
No our lives are not preordained--God cannot see ones future like that-- He desires all to repent, so he does not know beforehand who will or wont. He can however see the patterns of the mortal heart and know--Few will repent. --the future he shared was his will being accomplished.
He isn't pissed off-- He set before everyone--life or death- Deuteronomy 30:19)-- we must choose--by our actions. If one reads the bible from front to back, a few times they find---for the majority of mankinds history= 99% mislead. so true of today--these are the last days.
He has warned the world nearly 2000 years in advance--its the worlds douchiness that is the problem--- They failed to listen to Jesus who taught---- Man does not live by bread alone, but by every utterance from God( ot-nt)--takes years of study to learn every utterance--Few bother. Its not Gods fault--its all there in black and white.
what answer is necessary......if your own argument is nothing more than I refuse to believe it, is anything more needed that "who cares".......So you have no answer so you decided to be obnoxious again? Gee what a surprise.then again, why are you here whining about it?........No invisible god has ever put down any rules I know of, the ones in the bible were made up by men as far as anyone can tell.
The lesson of Jesus is that if you're generally a pussy, have backstabbing friends and try to overthrow the established order, they nail you to wood.
ah, and you plan to make this happen?.......more power to you.......God did make a third way, you can reincarnate right here on earth, that would be my choice. And apparently a lot of other people have chosen that path since stories of reincarnation are plentiful around the world.
and God has given you power to reincarnate, judge me as unworthy of heaven and make the abnormal, normal........are you perhaps a deity yourself?......[
So you can be an obnoxious little hater and still get into heaven like you're counting on? Ummm... no.
Homosexuality is found throughout nature, making it natural, not abnormal. What's abnormal is your obsession and hatred of gays.
???....I did so several times......you ignore them and accuse me of personal attacks......Next time, explain why they are wrong, that's what a chat board is for, ideas going back and forth, not just to slag someone off with every response like you have a tendency to do. That must be a Jesus thing.
