Is There A God?

[Abishai100]

Luck vs. Blessing


When we say that "God blesses us," we may be implying that God is imparting on us some kind of gift or fortune or favor.

If an atheist does not believe in an overseeing supervisory God, then from where does the atheist receive 'blessings'?

From their loved ones? From their own artwork?

Atheists seem to equate 'blessings' with simple 'probabilistic luck' or 'chance.' So while a theist would say, "I'm blessed!," an atheist would simply substitute, "I'm lucky!"

This discrepancy between theistic bestowment/inheritance and atheistic lottery/luck may comprise the brunt of the debate!


====

GOD: Men may wish their fortune/luck improves!
SATAN: They may simply be wishing for an improvement in personal ability/strength.
GOD: Which is why athletes take illegal performance-enhancing steroids.
SATAN: Correct.
GOD: If an injured athletes' condition suddenly improves, does he/she cite a 'miracle'?
SATAN: Such an athlete has the 'freedom' to cite 'miracles,' but also the freedom to cite 'medical skill.'
GOD: Let's say an American movie actor (e.g., Viggo Mortensen) meets a young woman on Facebook.
SATAN: Yes, while he's surfing on Facebook, he meets an alluring Armenian-American woman (an artist!).
GOD: Does Viggo think he met her by 'chance' or by 'God's grace'?
SATAN: He can 'decide' either way.
GOD: Then the atheist and the theist are really disagreeing about the 'humility of free will.'
SATAN: When you throw in bestowment and luck into the equation, free will becomes a problem!

====

 

[PK1]

Can I use something you created as evidence?

Why don't you simply propose a claim and indicate your evidence for it.
If your evidence & logic explain the claim's details, then a corresponding belief may be valid.

Ok, I can use something you create as evidence. I can use it to learn things about you. Do you agree?

Do i agree?? Is this a drumroll?

Why don't you shoot? You may get 2 pts, 3 pts, or an air ball ...

lol, no, that's what people do when they are having conversations with someone. They identify things they can agree on to identify the things they don't. I made a simple statement. One that I believe is self evident that is something that everyone should know. Do you believe that things you create can be used to learn things about you? Does this question make you uncomfortable?

I can't read your mind; don't understand your 1st Q. Please elaborate.
Re: 2nd Q ... Your 1st Q does not make me uncomfortable, but it does make me shake my head, slowly.

 

[ding]

Can I use something you created as evidence?

Why don't you simply propose a claim and indicate your evidence for it.
If your evidence & logic explain the claim's details, then a corresponding belief may be valid.

Ok, I can use something you create as evidence. I can use it to learn things about you. Do you agree?

Do i agree?? Is this a drumroll?

Why don't you shoot? You may get 2 pts, 3 pts, or an air ball ...

lol, no, that's what people do when they are having conversations with someone. They identify things they can agree on to identify the things they don't. I made a simple statement. One that I believe is self evident that is something that everyone should know. Do you believe that things you create can be used to learn things about you? Does this question make you uncomfortable?

I can't read your mind; don't understand your 1st Q. Please elaborate.
Re: 2nd Q ... Your 1st Q does not make me uncomfortable, but it does make me shake my head, slowly.

I am not asking you to read my mind. If you can't answer it, I'll understand.

 

[ding]

Luck vs. Blessing


When we say that "God blesses us," we may be implying that God is imparting on us some kind of gift or fortune or favor.

If an atheist does not believe in an overseeing supervisory God, then from where does the atheist receive 'blessings'?

From their loved ones? From their own artwork?

Atheists seem to equate 'blessings' with simple 'probabilistic luck' or 'chance.' So while a theist would say, "I'm blessed!," an atheist would simply substitute, "I'm lucky!"

This discrepancy between theistic bestowment/inheritance and atheistic lottery/luck may comprise the brunt of the debate!


====

GOD: Men may wish their fortune/luck improves!
SATAN: They may simply be wishing for an improvement in personal ability/strength.
GOD: Which is why athletes take illegal performance-enhancing steroids.
SATAN: Correct.
GOD: If an injured athletes' condition suddenly improves, does he/she cite a 'miracle'?
SATAN: Such an athlete has the 'freedom' to cite 'miracles,' but also the freedom to cite 'medical skill.'
GOD: Let's say an American movie actor (e.g., Viggo Mortensen) meets a young woman on Facebook.
SATAN: Yes, while he's surfing on Facebook, he meets an alluring Armenian-American woman (an artist!).
GOD: Does Viggo think he met her by 'chance' or by 'God's grace'?
SATAN: He can 'decide' either way.
GOD: Then the atheist and the theist are really disagreeing about the 'humility of free will.'
SATAN: When you throw in bestowment and luck into the equation, free will becomes a problem!

====

View attachment 100316

At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices.

 

[PK1]

Why don't you simply propose a claim and indicate your evidence for it.
If your evidence & logic explain the claim's details, then a corresponding belief may be valid.

Ok, I can use something you create as evidence. I can use it to learn things about you. Do you agree?

Do i agree?? Is this a drumroll?

Why don't you shoot? You may get 2 pts, 3 pts, or an air ball ...

lol, no, that's what people do when they are having conversations with someone. They identify things they can agree on to identify the things they don't. I made a simple statement. One that I believe is self evident that is something that everyone should know. Do you believe that things you create can be used to learn things about you? Does this question make you uncomfortable?

I can't read your mind; don't understand your 1st Q. Please elaborate.
Re: 2nd Q ... Your 1st Q does not make me uncomfortable, but it does make me shake my head, slowly.

I am not asking you to read my mind. If you can't answer it, I'll understand.

Answer what?
Why are you beating around the bush?
I repeat: please elaborate on your Q, i.e., provide details.

 

[ding]

Ok, I can use something you create as evidence. I can use it to learn things about you. Do you agree?

Do i agree?? Is this a drumroll?

Why don't you shoot? You may get 2 pts, 3 pts, or an air ball ...

lol, no, that's what people do when they are having conversations with someone. They identify things they can agree on to identify the things they don't. I made a simple statement. One that I believe is self evident that is something that everyone should know. Do you believe that things you create can be used to learn things about you? Does this question make you uncomfortable?

I can't read your mind; don't understand your 1st Q. Please elaborate.
Re: 2nd Q ... Your 1st Q does not make me uncomfortable, but it does make me shake my head, slowly.

I am not asking you to read my mind. If you can't answer it, I'll understand.

Answer what?
Why are you beating around the bush?
I repeat: please elaborate on your Q, i.e., provide details.

I'm not beating around the bush. You are. Can I use something you created as evidence to learn things about you? Yes or no? It's not a complicated question.

 

[Czernobog]

Luck vs. Blessing


When we say that "God blesses us," we may be implying that God is imparting on us some kind of gift or fortune or favor.

If an atheist does not believe in an overseeing supervisory God, then from where does the atheist receive 'blessings'?

From their loved ones? From their own artwork?

Atheists seem to equate 'blessings' with simple 'probabilistic luck' or 'chance.' So while a theist would say, "I'm blessed!," an atheist would simply substitute, "I'm lucky!"

This discrepancy between theistic bestowment/inheritance and atheistic lottery/luck may comprise the brunt of the debate!


====

GOD: Men may wish their fortune/luck improves!
SATAN: They may simply be wishing for an improvement in personal ability/strength.
GOD: Which is why athletes take illegal performance-enhancing steroids.
SATAN: Correct.
GOD: If an injured athletes' condition suddenly improves, does he/she cite a 'miracle'?
SATAN: Such an athlete has the 'freedom' to cite 'miracles,' but also the freedom to cite 'medical skill.'
GOD: Let's say an American movie actor (e.g., Viggo Mortensen) meets a young woman on Facebook.
SATAN: Yes, while he's surfing on Facebook, he meets an alluring Armenian-American woman (an artist!).
GOD: Does Viggo think he met her by 'chance' or by 'God's grace'?
SATAN: He can 'decide' either way.
GOD: Then the atheist and the theist are really disagreeing about the 'humility of free will.'
SATAN: When you throw in bestowment and luck into the equation, free will becomes a problem!

====

View attachment 100316

At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices.

We have free will? So, explain the Pharaoh in Exodus:

Exodus 7:13: "And he [God] hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said."

The Pharaoh in Exodus was given no "free Will"; God forced him to behave exactly as God wanted him to. While you're considering that, consider Job. Job's children were killed by God, through no fault, or act of their own - they were not offered free will - solely to facilitate a bet between God, and Lucifer.

Finally, just in case you want to point out that those are "Old Testament" examples, and not relevant to Christians, consider the case of Judas. There was no discussion of the "choice" of Judas. Rather John makes it clear John 13:27) that an outside force (Satan) took possession of Judas' faculties, and forced him to do what he was pre-ordained to do. Even Pilate had not free will. Jesus tells Pilate that he has no choice whatsoever, and that the events that were unfolding were beyond his comprehension, or ability to change.



Tell us, again, about "our choices", and free will according to Christianity...

 

[ding]

Luck vs. Blessing


When we say that "God blesses us," we may be implying that God is imparting on us some kind of gift or fortune or favor.

If an atheist does not believe in an overseeing supervisory God, then from where does the atheist receive 'blessings'?

From their loved ones? From their own artwork?

Atheists seem to equate 'blessings' with simple 'probabilistic luck' or 'chance.' So while a theist would say, "I'm blessed!," an atheist would simply substitute, "I'm lucky!"

This discrepancy between theistic bestowment/inheritance and atheistic lottery/luck may comprise the brunt of the debate!


====

GOD: Men may wish their fortune/luck improves!
SATAN: They may simply be wishing for an improvement in personal ability/strength.
GOD: Which is why athletes take illegal performance-enhancing steroids.
SATAN: Correct.
GOD: If an injured athletes' condition suddenly improves, does he/she cite a 'miracle'?
SATAN: Such an athlete has the 'freedom' to cite 'miracles,' but also the freedom to cite 'medical skill.'
GOD: Let's say an American movie actor (e.g., Viggo Mortensen) meets a young woman on Facebook.
SATAN: Yes, while he's surfing on Facebook, he meets an alluring Armenian-American woman (an artist!).
GOD: Does Viggo think he met her by 'chance' or by 'God's grace'?
SATAN: He can 'decide' either way.
GOD: Then the atheist and the theist are really disagreeing about the 'humility of free will.'
SATAN: When you throw in bestowment and luck into the equation, free will becomes a problem!

====

View attachment 100316

At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices.

We have free will? So, explain the Pharaoh in Exodus:

Exodus 7:13: "And he [God] hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said."

The Pharaoh in Exodus was given no "free Will"; God forced him to behave exactly as God wanted him to. While you're considering that, consider Job. Job's children were killed by God, through no fault, or act of their own - they were not offered free will - solely to facilitate a bet between God, and Lucifer.

Finally, just in case you want to point out that those are "Old Testament" examples, and not relevant to Christians, consider the case of Judas. There was no discussion of the "choice" of Judas. Rather John makes it clear John 13:27) that an outside force (Satan) took possession of Judas' faculties, and forced him to do what he was pre-ordained to do. Even Pilate had not free will. Jesus tells Pilate that he has no choice whatsoever, and that the events that were unfolding were beyond his comprehension, or ability to change.



Tell us, again, about "our choices", and free will according to Christianity...

Why? What do you want to know? That free will and accountability go hand in hand? That suffering the consequences of our decisions and actions is an important part of learning lessons and progressing as humans? That if one blames others for his mistakes he transfers his control to external sources and is likely to repeat the same mistakes? That unless one is honest with himself he won't learn lessons from his mistakes? What exactly do you want to know?

I got all of this from the Bible, maybe you aren't reading it correctly. That or maybe you are reading it in a way that confirms your bias. Everything is choice.

 

[Czernobog]

Luck vs. Blessing


When we say that "God blesses us," we may be implying that God is imparting on us some kind of gift or fortune or favor.

If an atheist does not believe in an overseeing supervisory God, then from where does the atheist receive 'blessings'?

From their loved ones? From their own artwork?

Atheists seem to equate 'blessings' with simple 'probabilistic luck' or 'chance.' So while a theist would say, "I'm blessed!," an atheist would simply substitute, "I'm lucky!"

This discrepancy between theistic bestowment/inheritance and atheistic lottery/luck may comprise the brunt of the debate!


====

GOD: Men may wish their fortune/luck improves!
SATAN: They may simply be wishing for an improvement in personal ability/strength.
GOD: Which is why athletes take illegal performance-enhancing steroids.
SATAN: Correct.
GOD: If an injured athletes' condition suddenly improves, does he/she cite a 'miracle'?
SATAN: Such an athlete has the 'freedom' to cite 'miracles,' but also the freedom to cite 'medical skill.'
GOD: Let's say an American movie actor (e.g., Viggo Mortensen) meets a young woman on Facebook.
SATAN: Yes, while he's surfing on Facebook, he meets an alluring Armenian-American woman (an artist!).
GOD: Does Viggo think he met her by 'chance' or by 'God's grace'?
SATAN: He can 'decide' either way.
GOD: Then the atheist and the theist are really disagreeing about the 'humility of free will.'
SATAN: When you throw in bestowment and luck into the equation, free will becomes a problem!

====

View attachment 100316

At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices.

We have free will? So, explain the Pharaoh in Exodus:

Exodus 7:13: "And he [God] hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said."

The Pharaoh in Exodus was given no "free Will"; God forced him to behave exactly as God wanted him to. While you're considering that, consider Job. Job's children were killed by God, through no fault, or act of their own - they were not offered free will - solely to facilitate a bet between God, and Lucifer.

Finally, just in case you want to point out that those are "Old Testament" examples, and not relevant to Christians, consider the case of Judas. There was no discussion of the "choice" of Judas. Rather John makes it clear John 13:27) that an outside force (Satan) took possession of Judas' faculties, and forced him to do what he was pre-ordained to do. Even Pilate had not free will. Jesus tells Pilate that he has no choice whatsoever, and that the events that were unfolding were beyond his comprehension, or ability to change.



Tell us, again, about "our choices", and free will according to Christianity...

Why? What do you want to know? That free will and accountability go hand in hand? That suffering the consequences of our decisions and actions is an important part of learning lessons and progressing as humans? That if one blames others for his mistakes he transfers his control to external sources and is likely to repeat the same mistakes? That unless one is honest with himself he won't learn lessons from his mistakes? What exactly do you want to know?

I got all of this from the Bible, maybe you aren't reading it correctly. That or maybe you are reading it in a way that confirms your bias. Everything is choice.

Yes, you want to talk about "free will" while ignoring that your Bible demostrates mutliple occasions where your God denied people their free will.

If your Bible is to be believed, and your God is to be accepted as real, then your "free will" is complete, and utter bullshit.

 

[ding]

Luck vs. Blessing


When we say that "God blesses us," we may be implying that God is imparting on us some kind of gift or fortune or favor.

If an atheist does not believe in an overseeing supervisory God, then from where does the atheist receive 'blessings'?

From their loved ones? From their own artwork?

Atheists seem to equate 'blessings' with simple 'probabilistic luck' or 'chance.' So while a theist would say, "I'm blessed!," an atheist would simply substitute, "I'm lucky!"

This discrepancy between theistic bestowment/inheritance and atheistic lottery/luck may comprise the brunt of the debate!


====

GOD: Men may wish their fortune/luck improves!
SATAN: They may simply be wishing for an improvement in personal ability/strength.
GOD: Which is why athletes take illegal performance-enhancing steroids.
SATAN: Correct.
GOD: If an injured athletes' condition suddenly improves, does he/she cite a 'miracle'?
SATAN: Such an athlete has the 'freedom' to cite 'miracles,' but also the freedom to cite 'medical skill.'
GOD: Let's say an American movie actor (e.g., Viggo Mortensen) meets a young woman on Facebook.
SATAN: Yes, while he's surfing on Facebook, he meets an alluring Armenian-American woman (an artist!).
GOD: Does Viggo think he met her by 'chance' or by 'God's grace'?
SATAN: He can 'decide' either way.
GOD: Then the atheist and the theist are really disagreeing about the 'humility of free will.'
SATAN: When you throw in bestowment and luck into the equation, free will becomes a problem!

====

View attachment 100316

At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices.

We have free will? So, explain the Pharaoh in Exodus:

Exodus 7:13: "And he [God] hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said."

The Pharaoh in Exodus was given no "free Will"; God forced him to behave exactly as God wanted him to. While you're considering that, consider Job. Job's children were killed by God, through no fault, or act of their own - they were not offered free will - solely to facilitate a bet between God, and Lucifer.

Finally, just in case you want to point out that those are "Old Testament" examples, and not relevant to Christians, consider the case of Judas. There was no discussion of the "choice" of Judas. Rather John makes it clear John 13:27) that an outside force (Satan) took possession of Judas' faculties, and forced him to do what he was pre-ordained to do. Even Pilate had not free will. Jesus tells Pilate that he has no choice whatsoever, and that the events that were unfolding were beyond his comprehension, or ability to change.



Tell us, again, about "our choices", and free will according to Christianity...

Why? What do you want to know? That free will and accountability go hand in hand? That suffering the consequences of our decisions and actions is an important part of learning lessons and progressing as humans? That if one blames others for his mistakes he transfers his control to external sources and is likely to repeat the same mistakes? That unless one is honest with himself he won't learn lessons from his mistakes? What exactly do you want to know?

I got all of this from the Bible, maybe you aren't reading it correctly. That or maybe you are reading it in a way that confirms your bias. Everything is choice.

Yes, you want to talk about "free will" while ignoring that your Bible demostrates mutliple occasions where your God denied people their free will.

If your Bible is to be believed, and your God is to be accepted as real, then your "free will" is complete, and utter bullshit.

Why would I want to discuss the Bible with an atheist, especially a militant atheist at that? That would be illogical. I have no desire to convince you of anything. Believe anything you want. I couldn't care less.

 

[Czernobog]

Luck vs. Blessing


When we say that "God blesses us," we may be implying that God is imparting on us some kind of gift or fortune or favor.

If an atheist does not believe in an overseeing supervisory God, then from where does the atheist receive 'blessings'?

From their loved ones? From their own artwork?

Atheists seem to equate 'blessings' with simple 'probabilistic luck' or 'chance.' So while a theist would say, "I'm blessed!," an atheist would simply substitute, "I'm lucky!"

This discrepancy between theistic bestowment/inheritance and atheistic lottery/luck may comprise the brunt of the debate!


====

GOD: Men may wish their fortune/luck improves!
SATAN: They may simply be wishing for an improvement in personal ability/strength.
GOD: Which is why athletes take illegal performance-enhancing steroids.
SATAN: Correct.
GOD: If an injured athletes' condition suddenly improves, does he/she cite a 'miracle'?
SATAN: Such an athlete has the 'freedom' to cite 'miracles,' but also the freedom to cite 'medical skill.'
GOD: Let's say an American movie actor (e.g., Viggo Mortensen) meets a young woman on Facebook.
SATAN: Yes, while he's surfing on Facebook, he meets an alluring Armenian-American woman (an artist!).
GOD: Does Viggo think he met her by 'chance' or by 'God's grace'?
SATAN: He can 'decide' either way.
GOD: Then the atheist and the theist are really disagreeing about the 'humility of free will.'
SATAN: When you throw in bestowment and luck into the equation, free will becomes a problem!

====

View attachment 100316

At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices.

We have free will? So, explain the Pharaoh in Exodus:

Exodus 7:13: "And he [God] hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said."

The Pharaoh in Exodus was given no "free Will"; God forced him to behave exactly as God wanted him to. While you're considering that, consider Job. Job's children were killed by God, through no fault, or act of their own - they were not offered free will - solely to facilitate a bet between God, and Lucifer.

Finally, just in case you want to point out that those are "Old Testament" examples, and not relevant to Christians, consider the case of Judas. There was no discussion of the "choice" of Judas. Rather John makes it clear John 13:27) that an outside force (Satan) took possession of Judas' faculties, and forced him to do what he was pre-ordained to do. Even Pilate had not free will. Jesus tells Pilate that he has no choice whatsoever, and that the events that were unfolding were beyond his comprehension, or ability to change.



Tell us, again, about "our choices", and free will according to Christianity...

Why? What do you want to know? That free will and accountability go hand in hand? That suffering the consequences of our decisions and actions is an important part of learning lessons and progressing as humans? That if one blames others for his mistakes he transfers his control to external sources and is likely to repeat the same mistakes? That unless one is honest with himself he won't learn lessons from his mistakes? What exactly do you want to know?

I got all of this from the Bible, maybe you aren't reading it correctly. That or maybe you are reading it in a way that confirms your bias. Everything is choice.

Yes, you want to talk about "free will" while ignoring that your Bible demostrates mutliple occasions where your God denied people their free will.

If your Bible is to be believed, and your God is to be accepted as real, then your "free will" is complete, and utter bullshit.

Why would I want to discuss the Bible with an atheist, especially a militant atheist at that? That would be illogical. I have no desire to convince you of anything. Believe anything you want. I couldn't care less.

That's adorable. Your concession that you cannot defend your irrational beliefs is noted.

 

[ding]

At any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices.

We have free will? So, explain the Pharaoh in Exodus:

Exodus 7:13: "And he [God] hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said."

The Pharaoh in Exodus was given no "free Will"; God forced him to behave exactly as God wanted him to. While you're considering that, consider Job. Job's children were killed by God, through no fault, or act of their own - they were not offered free will - solely to facilitate a bet between God, and Lucifer.

Finally, just in case you want to point out that those are "Old Testament" examples, and not relevant to Christians, consider the case of Judas. There was no discussion of the "choice" of Judas. Rather John makes it clear John 13:27) that an outside force (Satan) took possession of Judas' faculties, and forced him to do what he was pre-ordained to do. Even Pilate had not free will. Jesus tells Pilate that he has no choice whatsoever, and that the events that were unfolding were beyond his comprehension, or ability to change.



Tell us, again, about "our choices", and free will according to Christianity...

Why? What do you want to know? That free will and accountability go hand in hand? That suffering the consequences of our decisions and actions is an important part of learning lessons and progressing as humans? That if one blames others for his mistakes he transfers his control to external sources and is likely to repeat the same mistakes? That unless one is honest with himself he won't learn lessons from his mistakes? What exactly do you want to know?

I got all of this from the Bible, maybe you aren't reading it correctly. That or maybe you are reading it in a way that confirms your bias. Everything is choice.

Yes, you want to talk about "free will" while ignoring that your Bible demostrates mutliple occasions where your God denied people their free will.

If your Bible is to be believed, and your God is to be accepted as real, then your "free will" is complete, and utter bullshit.

Why would I want to discuss the Bible with an atheist, especially a militant atheist at that? That would be illogical. I have no desire to convince you of anything. Believe anything you want. I couldn't care less.

That's adorable. Your concession that you cannot defend your irrational beliefs is noted.

I'm happy enough for you to believe that too, brother.

 

[Czernobog]

We have free will? So, explain the Pharaoh in Exodus:

Exodus 7:13: "And he [God] hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said."

The Pharaoh in Exodus was given no "free Will"; God forced him to behave exactly as God wanted him to. While you're considering that, consider Job. Job's children were killed by God, through no fault, or act of their own - they were not offered free will - solely to facilitate a bet between God, and Lucifer.

Finally, just in case you want to point out that those are "Old Testament" examples, and not relevant to Christians, consider the case of Judas. There was no discussion of the "choice" of Judas. Rather John makes it clear John 13:27) that an outside force (Satan) took possession of Judas' faculties, and forced him to do what he was pre-ordained to do. Even Pilate had not free will. Jesus tells Pilate that he has no choice whatsoever, and that the events that were unfolding were beyond his comprehension, or ability to change.



Tell us, again, about "our choices", and free will according to Christianity...

Why? What do you want to know? That free will and accountability go hand in hand? That suffering the consequences of our decisions and actions is an important part of learning lessons and progressing as humans? That if one blames others for his mistakes he transfers his control to external sources and is likely to repeat the same mistakes? That unless one is honest with himself he won't learn lessons from his mistakes? What exactly do you want to know?

I got all of this from the Bible, maybe you aren't reading it correctly. That or maybe you are reading it in a way that confirms your bias. Everything is choice.

Yes, you want to talk about "free will" while ignoring that your Bible demostrates mutliple occasions where your God denied people their free will.

If your Bible is to be believed, and your God is to be accepted as real, then your "free will" is complete, and utter bullshit.

Why would I want to discuss the Bible with an atheist, especially a militant atheist at that? That would be illogical. I have no desire to convince you of anything. Believe anything you want. I couldn't care less.

That's adorable. Your concession that you cannot defend your irrational beliefs is noted.

I'm happy enough for you to believe that too, brother.

First, I am not your brother. Second, belief has nothing to do with it. You made an irrational claim. I pointed out, using your own Bible, the mutliple times that your Bible contradicted your irrational claim, and rather than demonstrating how those examples did not, in fact, contradict your claim, you chose to run. If you have "no desire to convince" me, or anyone else, of anything, posting your views on a public forum to be challenged is kind of stupid, doncha think?

 

[ding]

First, I am not your brother.

Technically we are all brothers and sisters, brother.

Second, belief has nothing to do with it.

Everything is propaganda, brother. Except of course what you believe. That is gospel.

You made an irrational claim.

What irrational claim did I make? That at any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices? What is irrational about that? Do you believe that everything is blind luck? That is irrational, brother.

I pointed out, using your own Bible the mutliple times that your bible contradicted your irrational claim, and rather than demonstrating how those examples did not, in fact, contradict your claim, you chose to run. I

You don't believe in the Bible. You quoting the Bible is irrational, brother.

If you have "no desire to convince" me, or anyone else, of anything, posting your views on a public forum to be challenged is kind of stupid, doncha think?

Not at all. Growth filled communities discuss all sides of an issue to arrive at objective truth. Honest men can have honest differences of opinions without having to act like jerks. You aren't wanting to discuss an issue, you are wanting me to convince you of the veracity of the Bible. I have no interest in that. I couldn't care less what you believed about the Bible. Go burn it for all I care. Rip it up and use it as toilet paper. Stupid is you needing me to discuss the Bible with you because you think you are so smart that you have everything figured out. You don't. You don't know squat about anything. You are just a hammer looking for a nail. There are tons of Christians out there that would be happy to oblige you. I'm not one of them. I'm the kind that makes you look foolish using secular arguments.

Now, what exactly did you want to discuss about free will, brother?

 

[Czernobog]

First, I am not your brother.

Technically we are all brothers and sisters, brother.

No, technically we're not. Just because we share common DNA traits simply makes us the same species, not family. So, feel free to fuck off with that condescending "Brother" bullshit

Second, belief has nothing to do with it.

Everything is propaganda, brother. Except of course what you believe. That is gospel.

No. that would be the expalnation of your religion. Facts are facts, and propaganda has nothing to do with it.

You made an irrational claim.

What irrational claim did I make? That at any point in our lives we are the sum of our choices?

If you claim to believe that the Bible is truthful, and accurate, yes, it is irrational.

I pointed out, using your own Bible the mutliple times that your bible contradicted your irrational claim, and rather than demonstrating how those examples did not, in fact, contradict your claim, you chose to run. I

You don't believe in the Bible. You quoting the Bible is irrational, brother.

It is irrational to point out the inconsistencies in your Bible? That's funny. There is nothing irrational in quoting the Bible. What is irrational is believing that such a contradictory, irrational 2,000 year old book of myths is any more than it is - a 2,000 year old collection of myths, and legends.

If you have "no desire to convince" me, or anyone else, of anything, posting your views on a public forum to be challenged is kind of stupid, doncha think?

Not at all. Growth filled communities discuss all sides of an issue to arrive at objective truth. Honest men can have honest differences of opinions without having to act like jerks. You aren't wanting to discuss an issue, you are wanting me to convince you of the veracity of the Bible. I have no interest in that. I couldn't care less what you believed about the Bible. Go burn it for all I care. Rip it up and use it as toilet paper. Stupid is you needing me to discuss the Bible with you because you think you are so smart that you have everything figured out. You don't. You don't know squat about anything. You are just a hammer looking for a nail. There are tons of Christians out there that would be happy to oblige you. I'm not one of them. I'm the kind that makes you look foolish using secular arguments.

Now, what exactly did you want to discuss about free will, brother?

You're right, honest men can. Unfortunately, your religion doesn't promote the honest exchange of ideas, because any time someone dares to challenge your "faith" you lash out, call the challengers "militant", "jerks", and refuse to answer the challenge. Then you pat yourself on the back like you have made some point. As to making me "... look foolish using secular arguments," be sure to let me know when you think you have actually done that.

 

[ding]

No, technically we're not. Just because we share common DNA traits simply makes us the same species, not family. So, feel free to fuck off with that condescending "Brother" bullshit

Do you even know what condescending means? Webster 1828 defines condescending as:

1. Descending from rank or distinction in the intercourse of life; receding from rights or claims; yielding.

2. Yielding to inferiors; courteous; obliging.

That was how it was originally used in the English language. Anyway, I disagree, I believe we are all brothers and sister in the great tree of life. You seem upset.

No. that would be the expalnation of your religion. Facts are facts, and propaganda has nothing to do with it.

It seems that I am the only one being honest here and that I was correct that you believe that you are the only one who knows what the facts are.

If you claim to believe that the Bible is truthful, and accurate, yes, it is irrational.

Can you show me where I made that claim, brother? Is that really the comment you were responding to? Can you at least identify the post number so that I may see the words I wrote?

It is irrational to point out the inconsistencies in your Bible? That's funny. There is nothing irrational in quoting the Bible. What is irrational is believing that such a contradictory, irrational 2,000 year old book of myths is any more than it is - a 2,000 year old collection of myths, and legends.

I couldn't be more happier for you to believe that. I also couldn't find it more irrational that you want to discuss something you don't believe.

You're right, honest men can. Unfortunately, your religion doesn't promote the honest exchange of ideas, because any time someone dares to challenge your "faith" you lash out, call the challengers "militant", "jerks", and refuse to answer the challenge. Then you pat yourself on the back like you have made some point. As to making me "... look foolish using secular arguments," be sure to let me know when you think you have actually done that.

lol, just look at every single reply I have made to you. Just look at how angry you are. The proof is in the pudding, brother.

 

[Czernobog]

No, technically we're not. Just because we share common DNA traits simply makes us the same species, not family. So, feel free to fuck off with that condescending "Brother" bullshit

Do you even know what condescending means? Webster 1828 defines condescending as:

1. Descending from rank or distinction in the intercourse of life; receding from rights or claims; yielding.

2. Yielding to inferiors; courteous; obliging.

That was how it was originally used in the English language. Anyway, I disagree we are all brothers and sister in the great tree of life. You seem upset.

No. that would be the expalnation of your religion. Facts are facts, and propaganda has nothing to do with it.

It seems that I am the only one being honest here and that I was correct that you believe that you are the only one who knows what the facts are.

If you claim to believe that the Bible is truthful, and accurate, yes, it is irrational.

Can you show me where I made that claim, brother? Is that really the comment you were responding to? Can you at least identify the post number so that I may see the words I wrote?

It is irrational to point out the inconsistencies in your Bible? That's funny. There is nothing irrational in quoting the Bible. What is irrational is believing that such a contradictory, irrational 2,000 year old book of myths is any more than it is - a 2,000 year old collection of myths, and legends.

I couldn't be more happier for you to believe that. I also couldn't find it more irrational that you want to discuss something you don't believe.

You're right, honest men can. Unfortunately, your religion doesn't promote the honest exchange of ideas, because any time someone dares to challenge your "faith" you lash out, call the challengers "militant", "jerks", and refuse to answer the challenge. Then you pat yourself on the back like you have made some point. As to making me "... look foolish using secular arguments," be sure to let me know when you think you have actually done that.

lol, just look at every single reply I have made to you. Just look at how angry you are. The proof is in the pudding, brother.

If you think this is anger, you don't get out much. The "brother" thing does annoy me. It presumes a familiarity with me that you have not earned. So, kindly quit referring to me by a title you have no right to. We are not brothers, there is no "tree of life", there is genetics.

As to all of the rest. You keep talking about beliefs. I don't have to believe anything. Things either are, or they are not. If they are, they can be proven. If they are not, they cannot be. Belief has nothing to do with it. Belief is your failing, not mine. That is the problem with religion; it requires accepting things for which there is no evidence. There is another word for accepting things for which there is no evidence - it's called delusion.

 

[ding]

No, technically we're not. Just because we share common DNA traits simply makes us the same species, not family. So, feel free to fuck off with that condescending "Brother" bullshit

Do you even know what condescending means? Webster 1828 defines condescending as:

1. Descending from rank or distinction in the intercourse of life; receding from rights or claims; yielding.

2. Yielding to inferiors; courteous; obliging.

That was how it was originally used in the English language. Anyway, I disagree we are all brothers and sister in the great tree of life. You seem upset.

No. that would be the expalnation of your religion. Facts are facts, and propaganda has nothing to do with it.

It seems that I am the only one being honest here and that I was correct that you believe that you are the only one who knows what the facts are.

If you claim to believe that the Bible is truthful, and accurate, yes, it is irrational.

Can you show me where I made that claim, brother? Is that really the comment you were responding to? Can you at least identify the post number so that I may see the words I wrote?

It is irrational to point out the inconsistencies in your Bible? That's funny. There is nothing irrational in quoting the Bible. What is irrational is believing that such a contradictory, irrational 2,000 year old book of myths is any more than it is - a 2,000 year old collection of myths, and legends.

I couldn't be more happier for you to believe that. I also couldn't find it more irrational that you want to discuss something you don't believe.

You're right, honest men can. Unfortunately, your religion doesn't promote the honest exchange of ideas, because any time someone dares to challenge your "faith" you lash out, call the challengers "militant", "jerks", and refuse to answer the challenge. Then you pat yourself on the back like you have made some point. As to making me "... look foolish using secular arguments," be sure to let me know when you think you have actually done that.

lol, just look at every single reply I have made to you. Just look at how angry you are. The proof is in the pudding, brother.

If you think this is anger, you don't get out much. The "brother" thing does annoy me. It presumes a familiarity with me that you have not earned. So, kindly quit referring to me by a title you have no right to. We are not brothers, there is no "tree of life", there is genetics.

As to all of the rest. You keep talking about beliefs. I don't have to believe anything. Things either are, or they are not. If they are, they can be proven. If they are not, they cannot be. Belief has nothing to do with it. Belief is your failing, not mine. That is the problem with religion; it requires accepting things for which there is no evidence. There is another word for accepting things for which there is no evidence - it's called delusion.

So what part of my saying believe whatever you want did you not understand? It seems to me that you are trying very hard to make me try to convince you.

If you want to believe I have no evidence or proof for believing the way I do, I'm fine with that. I hope you don't mind if I disagree. The only question left is are you going to prove me right about you wanting to argue about it.

If you don't want me to call you brother anymore, then I suggest you change your tone, brother.

 

[Czernobog]

No, technically we're not. Just because we share common DNA traits simply makes us the same species, not family. So, feel free to fuck off with that condescending "Brother" bullshit

Do you even know what condescending means? Webster 1828 defines condescending as:

1. Descending from rank or distinction in the intercourse of life; receding from rights or claims; yielding.

2. Yielding to inferiors; courteous; obliging.

That was how it was originally used in the English language. Anyway, I disagree we are all brothers and sister in the great tree of life. You seem upset.

No. that would be the expalnation of your religion. Facts are facts, and propaganda has nothing to do with it.

It seems that I am the only one being honest here and that I was correct that you believe that you are the only one who knows what the facts are.

If you claim to believe that the Bible is truthful, and accurate, yes, it is irrational.

Can you show me where I made that claim, brother? Is that really the comment you were responding to? Can you at least identify the post number so that I may see the words I wrote?

It is irrational to point out the inconsistencies in your Bible? That's funny. There is nothing irrational in quoting the Bible. What is irrational is believing that such a contradictory, irrational 2,000 year old book of myths is any more than it is - a 2,000 year old collection of myths, and legends.

I couldn't be more happier for you to believe that. I also couldn't find it more irrational that you want to discuss something you don't believe.

You're right, honest men can. Unfortunately, your religion doesn't promote the honest exchange of ideas, because any time someone dares to challenge your "faith" you lash out, call the challengers "militant", "jerks", and refuse to answer the challenge. Then you pat yourself on the back like you have made some point. As to making me "... look foolish using secular arguments," be sure to let me know when you think you have actually done that.

lol, just look at every single reply I have made to you. Just look at how angry you are. The proof is in the pudding, brother.

If you think this is anger, you don't get out much. The "brother" thing does annoy me. It presumes a familiarity with me that you have not earned. So, kindly quit referring to me by a title you have no right to. We are not brothers, there is no "tree of life", there is genetics.

As to all of the rest. You keep talking about beliefs. I don't have to believe anything. Things either are, or they are not. If they are, they can be proven. If they are not, they cannot be. Belief has nothing to do with it. Belief is your failing, not mine. That is the problem with religion; it requires accepting things for which there is no evidence. There is another word for accepting things for which there is no evidence - it's called delusion.

So what part of my saying believe whatever you want did you not understand? It seems to me that you are trying very hard to make me try to convince you.

If you want to believe I have no evidence or proof for believing the way I do, I'm fine with that. I hope you don't mind if I disagree. The only question left is are you going to prove me right about you wanting to argue about it.

If you don't want me to call you brother anymore, then I suggest you change your tone, brother.

LOL. You keep talking about belief, like this is a matter of belief. ?Facts do not require belief. Scientists don't get together every Sunday singing, "Yes, Gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down!"

If they did that, we would think they are pretty insecure about it. The only person here who seems to think that belief, and faith are important is you. Why is that, sister?

 

[ding]

No, technically we're not. Just because we share common DNA traits simply makes us the same species, not family. So, feel free to fuck off with that condescending "Brother" bullshit

Do you even know what condescending means? Webster 1828 defines condescending as:

1. Descending from rank or distinction in the intercourse of life; receding from rights or claims; yielding.

2. Yielding to inferiors; courteous; obliging.

That was how it was originally used in the English language. Anyway, I disagree we are all brothers and sister in the great tree of life. You seem upset.

No. that would be the expalnation of your religion. Facts are facts, and propaganda has nothing to do with it.

It seems that I am the only one being honest here and that I was correct that you believe that you are the only one who knows what the facts are.

If you claim to believe that the Bible is truthful, and accurate, yes, it is irrational.

Can you show me where I made that claim, brother? Is that really the comment you were responding to? Can you at least identify the post number so that I may see the words I wrote?

It is irrational to point out the inconsistencies in your Bible? That's funny. There is nothing irrational in quoting the Bible. What is irrational is believing that such a contradictory, irrational 2,000 year old book of myths is any more than it is - a 2,000 year old collection of myths, and legends.

I couldn't be more happier for you to believe that. I also couldn't find it more irrational that you want to discuss something you don't believe.

You're right, honest men can. Unfortunately, your religion doesn't promote the honest exchange of ideas, because any time someone dares to challenge your "faith" you lash out, call the challengers "militant", "jerks", and refuse to answer the challenge. Then you pat yourself on the back like you have made some point. As to making me "... look foolish using secular arguments," be sure to let me know when you think you have actually done that.

lol, just look at every single reply I have made to you. Just look at how angry you are. The proof is in the pudding, brother.

If you think this is anger, you don't get out much. The "brother" thing does annoy me. It presumes a familiarity with me that you have not earned. So, kindly quit referring to me by a title you have no right to. We are not brothers, there is no "tree of life", there is genetics.

As to all of the rest. You keep talking about beliefs. I don't have to believe anything. Things either are, or they are not. If they are, they can be proven. If they are not, they cannot be. Belief has nothing to do with it. Belief is your failing, not mine. That is the problem with religion; it requires accepting things for which there is no evidence. There is another word for accepting things for which there is no evidence - it's called delusion.

So what part of my saying believe whatever you want did you not understand? It seems to me that you are trying very hard to make me try to convince you.

If you want to believe I have no evidence or proof for believing the way I do, I'm fine with that. I hope you don't mind if I disagree. The only question left is are you going to prove me right about you wanting to argue about it.

If you don't want me to call you brother anymore, then I suggest you change your tone, brother.

LOL. You keep talking about belief, like this is a matter of belief. ?Facts do not require belief. Scientists don't get together every Sunday singing, "Yes, Gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down!"

If they did that, we would think they are pretty insecure about it. The only person here who seems to think that belief, and faith are important is you. Why is that, sister?

Thank you for proving my point, brother.