Is this a fair representative of Christianity?

[presonorek]

A thought cannot be proven to exist but we have thoughts all of the time. A feeling cannot be proven to exist but we have feelings all the time.

The bulk of our lives are experienced through thoughts and feelings . The majority of your life cannot be proven. You really limit your understanding of humanity when you focus on science, proof, logic and evidence. Humanity is 99+ % unproven thoughts and feelings.

Poor fellow. You have intentionally chosen to understand very little about life.

What makes you believe you're as special as you believe you are. Don't refer to what Paul John George and Ringo said in the bible. Let's say you weren't brainwashed with the Bible or Quran since birth. Tell me other than you happen to be at the top of the food chain on this one particular planet why do you think you are so special that you go to heaven or that a creator cares about you.

Please throw away all the nonsense our elders told us. Give me your factual logical reason why not only is there a creator but that he cares about you anymore than a frog elephant or dog.

Is it a feeling you have? That's called wishful thinking

If I understand James Fowler's theory then one has to become an atheist before advancing to the higher levels of their faith.

I haven't read "Stages of Faith" yet. It sounds like Fowler believes that the most effective and fulfilled Christians are in fact atheist or at least non-believers masquerading as Christians.

When I read the book I will share more. I'll invite Blue Phantom and Sealybobo to the discussion. It would probably be an interesting conversation at least for ten minutes or so.

Once you realize every religion made up stories of when God visited their ancestors, you are only left with the fact you can't imagine it any other way.

Sure something might have created the universe but you can't even prove that. Now you're going to have to explain why you believe it cares about you or that your soul is more special than a monkey tiger or tortoises. Keep in mind that when man came up with the arguments you're going to make they thought the earth was the center of the universe, we were stationary and everything revolved around us.

In fact we know now there are billions of other planets in the universe many of which probably have life and the only reason we don't know of them is because we are too small to get there or see them.

Point is, what reasons do you have for believing what you believe if you are not referring to any of the organized religions stories?

I don't believe them. Why do you make that assumption? Post #205 said nothing about any organised religion.

I notice many of you who say that cherry pick. My dad says he doesn't buy organized religion but believes in hell. Well where did he get that from then?

Everybody cherry picks. Why is cherry picking so offensive?

 

[sealybobo]

What makes you believe you're as special as you believe you are. Don't refer to what Paul John George and Ringo said in the bible. Let's say you weren't brainwashed with the Bible or Quran since birth. Tell me other than you happen to be at the top of the food chain on this one particular planet why do you think you are so special that you go to heaven or that a creator cares about you.

Please throw away all the nonsense our elders told us. Give me your factual logical reason why not only is there a creator but that he cares about you anymore than a frog elephant or dog.

Is it a feeling you have? That's called wishful thinking

No offense but your comments have nothing to do with what I said about thoughts and feelings. You went off on an irrelevant tangent. Don't do that. I know that you are better than that.

A thought cannot be seen or proven. A feeling cannot be seen or proven. Focusing on factual logical reasoning only addresses less than 0.1% of our life experiences. Why would you ignore the remaining 99.9% of life that is experienced through unproven feelings and thoughts? Just because thought a and feelings can be proven through factual logical reasoning doesn't mean that thoughts and feelings are irrelevant. They are very relevant.

This has nothing to do with the Bible or the Qu'ran. I know that thoughts and feelings exists simply by living.

And just like a computer or frog when you turn off the power what happens?

I think that we are discussing two or three different things. You don't appear to be addressing anything that I have said. What post # from this thread are you referencing?

The human quits thinking and quits feeling. I don't know what that has to do with anything I said.

I need to first understand what you believe and why. Is your belief based on ignorance? Many theists believe because we can't disprove God. So they believe because no one knows? What sense does that make?

And stop talking about a book you haven't read yet. Lol or can't explain. Ha!

I was hoping Blue Phantom would chime in about the book. I'm pretty excited about it. I believe that if you pour gasoline into a car then it will make the car operate. That is one belief that I have that is based on ignorance. I have many beliefs that are based on ignorance. I believe that if I type from my computer and press send then people from different parts of the world can read what I say. Nobody has the sufficient time to master all phenomenal aspects of life. We simply have to base most of our beliefs on ignorance.

Why do you demonize an efficient form of survival? A person that has never been burned by a stove bases their belief that a stuff will burn you if you touch entirely upon ignorance.

I just don't see the harm in religion or religious organizations. I see a lot of good that comes from them. Even the violent wars and persecution orchestrated in the name or religion can be argued on a case by case basis as a positive thing or question negative thing dependent upon values.

We don't like wars. That is the nature of war. It isn't supposed to be enjoyed or it wouldn't serve is function. I'm not sure why people get so uptight over religion. It seems harsh to me.

I think will be a much more evolved species when we drop all the organized lies. One only has to look over at the radical Muslims to see how Bad Religion can be or even the history of Christianity. Horrible.

Forget that book. You want to see something cool watch the cosmos. You may be able to get them at your library for free. Rent the old ones first with Carl Sagan then watch the new one with Neil deGrasse Tyson. They will blow your mind. The truth is so much better than the fairy tales. Religion has held us back as a species maybe ten thousand years

 

[sealybobo]

What makes you believe you're as special as you believe you are. Don't refer to what Paul John George and Ringo said in the bible. Let's say you weren't brainwashed with the Bible or Quran since birth. Tell me other than you happen to be at the top of the food chain on this one particular planet why do you think you are so special that you go to heaven or that a creator cares about you.

Please throw away all the nonsense our elders told us. Give me your factual logical reason why not only is there a creator but that he cares about you anymore than a frog elephant or dog.

Is it a feeling you have? That's called wishful thinking

If I understand James Fowler's theory then one has to become an atheist before advancing to the higher levels of their faith.

I haven't read "Stages of Faith" yet. It sounds like Fowler believes that the most effective and fulfilled Christians are in fact atheist or at least non-believers masquerading as Christians.

When I read the book I will share more. I'll invite Blue Phantom and Sealybobo to the discussion. It would probably be an interesting conversation at least for ten minutes or so.

Once you realize every religion made up stories of when God visited their ancestors, you are only left with the fact you can't imagine it any other way.

Sure something might have created the universe but you can't even prove that. Now you're going to have to explain why you believe it cares about you or that your soul is more special than a monkey tiger or tortoises. Keep in mind that when man came up with the arguments you're going to make they thought the earth was the center of the universe, we were stationary and everything revolved around us.

In fact we know now there are billions of other planets in the universe many of which probably have life and the only reason we don't know of them is because we are too small to get there or see them.

Point is, what reasons do you have for believing what you believe if you are not referring to any of the organized religions stories?

I don't believe them. Why do you make that assumption? Post #205 said nothing about any organised religion.

I notice many of you who say that cherry pick. My dad says he doesn't buy organized religion but believes in hell. Well where did he get that from then?

Everybody cherry picks. Why is cherry picking so offensive?

It's illogical. If something is a lie then lets expose it for the lie that it is. I think you think humans need religion and that's a good thing. When it is a lie ever a good thing? Okay maybe it makes you feel better about yourself and I hate to be the one to expose your psychosis but again I think as a whole will be a much smarter species and take care of this planet and worried about the here and now more than the afterlife which is pointless other than trying to scare people into being good. Is that really necessary? You people can teach your kids good in bed without a god? Is it Santa Claus for adults?

 

[sealybobo]

Instead of enjoying every moment and the time that you have here and now I've had religious people tell me that is this is all there is then kill me now is what they said. That is very sad to me because I appreciate and love every minute of my life. I just understand when it's over it's over. People who need to believe in religion are not happy here and now and instead of fighting to change that reality they're waiting for an afterlife. I think that's why they use religion to control us without it we would fight for better in this lifetime not cope and wait for the pearly gates

 

[presonorek]

No offense but your comments have nothing to do with what I said about thoughts and feelings. You went off on an irrelevant tangent. Don't do that. I know that you are better than that.

A thought cannot be seen or proven. A feeling cannot be seen or proven. Focusing on factual logical reasoning only addresses less than 0.1% of our life experiences. Why would you ignore the remaining 99.9% of life that is experienced through unproven feelings and thoughts? Just because thought a and feelings can be proven through factual logical reasoning doesn't mean that thoughts and feelings are irrelevant. They are very relevant.

This has nothing to do with the Bible or the Qu'ran. I know that thoughts and feelings exists simply by living.

And just like a computer or frog when you turn off the power what happens?

I think that we are discussing two or three different things. You don't appear to be addressing anything that I have said. What post # from this thread are you referencing?

The human quits thinking and quits feeling. I don't know what that has to do with anything I said.

I need to first understand what you believe and why. Is your belief based on ignorance? Many theists believe because we can't disprove God. So they believe because no one knows? What sense does that make?

And stop talking about a book you haven't read yet. Lol or can't explain. Ha!

I was hoping Blue Phantom would chime in about the book. I'm pretty excited about it. I believe that if you pour gasoline into a car then it will make the car operate. That is one belief that I have that is based on ignorance. I have many beliefs that are based on ignorance. I believe that if I type from my computer and press send then people from different parts of the world can read what I say. Nobody has the sufficient time to master all phenomenal aspects of life. We simply have to base most of our beliefs on ignorance.

Why do you demonize an efficient form of survival? A person that has never been burned by a stove bases their belief that a stuff will burn you if you touch entirely upon ignorance.

I just don't see the harm in religion or religious organizations. I see a lot of good that comes from them. Even the violent wars and persecution orchestrated in the name or religion can be argued on a case by case basis as a positive thing or question negative thing dependent upon values.

We don't like wars. That is the nature of war. It isn't supposed to be enjoyed or it wouldn't serve is function. I'm not sure why people get so uptight over religion. It seems harsh to me.

I think will be a much more evolved species when we drop all the organized lies. One only has to look over at the radical Muslims to see how Bad Religion can be or even the history of Christianity. Horrible.

Forget that book. You want to see something cool watch the cosmos. You may be able to get them at your library for free. Rent the old ones first with Carl Sagan then watch the new one with Neil deGrasse Tyson. They will blow your mind. The truth is so much better than the fairy tales. Religion has held us back as a species maybe ten thousand years

If we dropped the organized lies then someone would organize new lies. People enjoy believing untrue things. I used to work at a hotel. There were certain request that guests would make that I could not accommodate. They would argue and argue and basically demand that I lie to them. People enjoy lies.

Only a rare few want to hear the truth. Have you ever told a family friend that their food sucked? Probably not because you can tell that they want you to tell them that it is fantastic. However a restaurant owner genuinely wants you to tell the truth. The successful people in this world are attuned to the truth and appreciate it. The bulk of people in the world are satisfied with being happy and don't want to be interrupted with the truth.

Your fantasy of a religionless world isn't realistic at all. Even if it was achieved it would only last about 15 minutes.

If you were to play pro's and con's with religion it would win as a positive force hands down.

It seems to bother you simply because their stories aren't true. The salesman at the car dealership doesn't really own the same car he is showing you either. Lying is harmless in most situations. Try to see the positive facets of religion. There is a lot of good to see. It isn't so horrible that their stories aren't true.

 

[sealybobo]

And just like a computer or frog when you turn off the power what happens?

I think that we are discussing two or three different things. You don't appear to be addressing anything that I have said. What post # from this thread are you referencing?

The human quits thinking and quits feeling. I don't know what that has to do with anything I said.

I need to first understand what you believe and why. Is your belief based on ignorance? Many theists believe because we can't disprove God. So they believe because no one knows? What sense does that make?

And stop talking about a book you haven't read yet. Lol or can't explain. Ha!

I was hoping Blue Phantom would chime in about the book. I'm pretty excited about it. I believe that if you pour gasoline into a car then it will make the car operate. That is one belief that I have that is based on ignorance. I have many beliefs that are based on ignorance. I believe that if I type from my computer and press send then people from different parts of the world can read what I say. Nobody has the sufficient time to master all phenomenal aspects of life. We simply have to base most of our beliefs on ignorance.

Why do you demonize an efficient form of survival? A person that has never been burned by a stove bases their belief that a stuff will burn you if you touch entirely upon ignorance.

I just don't see the harm in religion or religious organizations. I see a lot of good that comes from them. Even the violent wars and persecution orchestrated in the name or religion can be argued on a case by case basis as a positive thing or question negative thing dependent upon values.

We don't like wars. That is the nature of war. It isn't supposed to be enjoyed or it wouldn't serve is function. I'm not sure why people get so uptight over religion. It seems harsh to me.

I think will be a much more evolved species when we drop all the organized lies. One only has to look over at the radical Muslims to see how Bad Religion can be or even the history of Christianity. Horrible.

Forget that book. You want to see something cool watch the cosmos. You may be able to get them at your library for free. Rent the old ones first with Carl Sagan then watch the new one with Neil deGrasse Tyson. They will blow your mind. The truth is so much better than the fairy tales. Religion has held us back as a species maybe ten thousand years

If we dropped the organized lies then someone would organize new lies. People enjoy believing untrue things. I used to work at a hotel. There were certain request that guests would make that I could not accommodate. They would argue and argue and basically demand that I lie to them. People enjoy lies.

Only a rare few want to hear the truth. Have you ever told a family friend that their food sucked? Probably not because you can tell that they want you to tell them that it is fantastic. However a restaurant owner genuinely wants you to tell the truth. The successful people in this world are attuned to the truth and appreciate it. The bulk of people in the world are satisfied with being happy and don't want to be interrupted with the truth.

Your fantasy of a religionless world isn't realistic at all. Even if it was achieved it would only last about 15 minutes.

If you were to play pro's and con's with religion it would win as a positive force hands down.

It seems to bother you simply because their stories aren't true. The salesman at the car dealership doesn't really own the same car he is showing you either. Lying is harmless in most situations. Try to see the positive facets of religion. There is a lot of good to see. It isn't so horrible that their stories aren't true.

I don't think my dream of a world where athiests outnumber religious people is impossible. I'm not talking spiritual, I'm talking about believing in one of the big 3.

No I don't see Islam Jews or Christians going away but I can say I know a few people who are church goers but many many more that don't. God rarely comes up in public unless I sneeze. Even then its just bless you now.

I watch TV a lot and God rarely comes up. I get it you think without it the world will be worse but I disagree. Imagine a debate on stem cell global warming or abortion without religion.

 

[presonorek]

Instead of enjoying every moment and the time that you have here and now I've had religious people tell me that is this is all there is then kill me now is what they said. That is very sad to me because I appreciate and love every minute of my life. I just understand when it's over it's over. People who need to believe in religion are not happy here and now and instead of fighting to change that reality they're waiting for an afterlife. I think that's why they use religion to control us without it we would fight for better in this lifetime not cope and wait for the pearly gates

Somebody has to make pizza, cut people's hair, sell cars, create financi statements and other nonscientific jobs. I do not see how their lives work would improve if they changed their belief system to a more realistic one. I could even argue that it would be detrimental to the here and now in some occupations.

Have you ever imagined a world full of non believers? I'm not so sure it would be a beautiful thing. I doubt you could raise an army without a god. How would you combat injustice without armies? It would be dog eat dog. We would be just like the animals. The strongest and most violent being would survive and procreate until we eventually evolved into a species of monsters.

This world is a wonderful place at this time in history. Some of that can be attributed to advances in science. Some of that can be attributed to religion. Ill take them both and tell them both to keep up the good work.

 

[presonorek]

I think that we are discussing two or three different things. You don't appear to be addressing anything that I have said. What post # from this thread are you referencing?

The human quits thinking and quits feeling. I don't know what that has to do with anything I said.

I need to first understand what you believe and why. Is your belief based on ignorance? Many theists believe because we can't disprove God. So they believe because no one knows? What sense does that make?

And stop talking about a book you haven't read yet. Lol or can't explain. Ha!

I was hoping Blue Phantom would chime in about the book. I'm pretty excited about it. I believe that if you pour gasoline into a car then it will make the car operate. That is one belief that I have that is based on ignorance. I have many beliefs that are based on ignorance. I believe that if I type from my computer and press send then people from different parts of the world can read what I say. Nobody has the sufficient time to master all phenomenal aspects of life. We simply have to base most of our beliefs on ignorance.

Why do you demonize an efficient form of survival? A person that has never been burned by a stove bases their belief that a stuff will burn you if you touch entirely upon ignorance.

I just don't see the harm in religion or religious organizations. I see a lot of good that comes from them. Even the violent wars and persecution orchestrated in the name or religion can be argued on a case by case basis as a positive thing or question negative thing dependent upon values.

We don't like wars. That is the nature of war. It isn't supposed to be enjoyed or it wouldn't serve is function. I'm not sure why people get so uptight over religion. It seems harsh to me.

I think will be a much more evolved species when we drop all the organized lies. One only has to look over at the radical Muslims to see how Bad Religion can be or even the history of Christianity. Horrible.

Forget that book. You want to see something cool watch the cosmos. You may be able to get them at your library for free. Rent the old ones first with Carl Sagan then watch the new one with Neil deGrasse Tyson. They will blow your mind. The truth is so much better than the fairy tales. Religion has held us back as a species maybe ten thousand years

If we dropped the organized lies then someone would organize new lies. People enjoy believing untrue things. I used to work at a hotel. There were certain request that guests would make that I could not accommodate. They would argue and argue and basically demand that I lie to them. People enjoy lies.

Only a rare few want to hear the truth. Have you ever told a family friend that their food sucked? Probably not because you can tell that they want you to tell them that it is fantastic. However a restaurant owner genuinely wants you to tell the truth. The successful people in this world are attuned to the truth and appreciate it. The bulk of people in the world are satisfied with being happy and don't want to be interrupted with the truth.

Your fantasy of a religionless world isn't realistic at all. Even if it was achieved it would only last about 15 minutes.

If you were to play pro's and con's with religion it would win as a positive force hands down.

It seems to bother you simply because their stories aren't true. The salesman at the car dealership doesn't really own the same car he is showing you either. Lying is harmless in most situations. Try to see the positive facets of religion. There is a lot of good to see. It isn't so horrible that their stories aren't true.

I don't think my dream of a world where athiests outnumber religious people is impossible. I'm not talking spiritual, I'm talking about believing in one of the big 3.

No I don't see Islam Jews or Christians going away but I can say I know a few people who are church goers but many many more that don't. God rarely comes up in public unless I sneeze. Even then its just bless you now.

I watch TV a lot and God rarely comes up. I get it you think without it the world will be worse but I disagree. Imagine a debate on stem cell global warming or abortion without religion.

Abortion? Are you serious? That is all talk. Nothing has changed in 42 years.

 

[presonorek]

I think that we are discussing two or three different things. You don't appear to be addressing anything that I have said. What post # from this thread are you referencing?

The human quits thinking and quits feeling. I don't know what that has to do with anything I said.

I need to first understand what you believe and why. Is your belief based on ignorance? Many theists believe because we can't disprove God. So they believe because no one knows? What sense does that make?

And stop talking about a book you haven't read yet. Lol or can't explain. Ha!

I was hoping Blue Phantom would chime in about the book. I'm pretty excited about it. I believe that if you pour gasoline into a car then it will make the car operate. That is one belief that I have that is based on ignorance. I have many beliefs that are based on ignorance. I believe that if I type from my computer and press send then people from different parts of the world can read what I say. Nobody has the sufficient time to master all phenomenal aspects of life. We simply have to base most of our beliefs on ignorance.

Why do you demonize an efficient form of survival? A person that has never been burned by a stove bases their belief that a stuff will burn you if you touch entirely upon ignorance.

I just don't see the harm in religion or religious organizations. I see a lot of good that comes from them. Even the violent wars and persecution orchestrated in the name or religion can be argued on a case by case basis as a positive thing or question negative thing dependent upon values.

We don't like wars. That is the nature of war. It isn't supposed to be enjoyed or it wouldn't serve is function. I'm not sure why people get so uptight over religion. It seems harsh to me.

I think will be a much more evolved species when we drop all the organized lies. One only has to look over at the radical Muslims to see how Bad Religion can be or even the history of Christianity. Horrible.

Forget that book. You want to see something cool watch the cosmos. You may be able to get them at your library for free. Rent the old ones first with Carl Sagan then watch the new one with Neil deGrasse Tyson. They will blow your mind. The truth is so much better than the fairy tales. Religion has held us back as a species maybe ten thousand years

If we dropped the organized lies then someone would organize new lies. People enjoy believing untrue things. I used to work at a hotel. There were certain request that guests would make that I could not accommodate. They would argue and argue and basically demand that I lie to them. People enjoy lies.

Only a rare few want to hear the truth. Have you ever told a family friend that their food sucked? Probably not because you can tell that they want you to tell them that it is fantastic. However a restaurant owner genuinely wants you to tell the truth. The successful people in this world are attuned to the truth and appreciate it. The bulk of people in the world are satisfied with being happy and don't want to be interrupted with the truth.

Your fantasy of a religionless world isn't realistic at all. Even if it was achieved it would only last about 15 minutes.

If you were to play pro's and con's with religion it would win as a positive force hands down.

It seems to bother you simply because their stories aren't true. The salesman at the car dealership doesn't really own the same car he is showing you either. Lying is harmless in most situations. Try to see the positive facets of religion. There is a lot of good to see. It isn't so horrible that their stories aren't true.

I don't think my dream of a world where athiests outnumber religious people is impossible. I'm not talking spiritual, I'm talking about believing in one of the big 3.

No I don't see Islam Jews or Christians going away but I can say I know a few people who are church goers but many many more that don't. God rarely comes up in public unless I sneeze. Even then its just bless you now.

I watch TV a lot and God rarely comes up. I get it you think without it the world will be worse but I disagree. Imagine a debate on stem cell global warming or abortion without religion.

How is global warming a religious matter? I am not aware of any religious entity taking a position on global warming.

 

[presonorek]

You shouldn't be so sensitive when people say things that you don't like. You should reserve your frustration for when they do things that you don't like.

When a Christian says that you are going to bell then that shouldn't bother you too much. When someone jumps out of a bush with a gun and demands your money then that should bother you.

Talk is cheap. Most people never follow through with the plans they make. Most people change their favorite movie every month. We exaggerate constantly.

Actions speak louder than words.

 

[sealybobo]

Instead of enjoying every moment and the time that you have here and now I've had religious people tell me that is this is all there is then kill me now is what they said. That is very sad to me because I appreciate and love every minute of my life. I just understand when it's over it's over. People who need to believe in religion are not happy here and now and instead of fighting to change that reality they're waiting for an afterlife. I think that's why they use religion to control us without it we would fight for better in this lifetime not cope and wait for the pearly gates

Somebody has to make pizza, cut people's hair, sell cars, create financi statements and other nonscientific jobs. I do not see how their lives work would improve if they changed their belief system to a more realistic one. I could even argue that it would be detrimental to the here and now in some occupations.

Have you ever imagined a world full of non believers? I'm not so sure it would be a beautiful thing. I doubt you could raise an army without a god. How would you combat injustice without armies? It would be dog eat dog. We would be just like the animals. The strongest and most violent being would survive and procreate until we eventually evolved into a species of monsters.

This world is a wonderful place at this time in history. Some of that can be attributed to advances in science. Some of that can be attributed to religion. Ill take them both and tell them both to keep up the good work.

That's funny Christian big bad bush invades little Iraq and you say its be that way without religion? It's exactly that way because of religion.

I don't think Spock was a bad person. He was logical. Do you think if the world full of vulcans would kill each other? I don't think so. I think we kill each other for God. Here comes gihad with Isis. Then there's the 100 year war between Catholics and Protestants. What was that all about? Or how we killed the Indians but that was OK because they weren't Christians.

 

[sealybobo]

I need to first understand what you believe and why. Is your belief based on ignorance? Many theists believe because we can't disprove God. So they believe because no one knows? What sense does that make?

And stop talking about a book you haven't read yet. Lol or can't explain. Ha!

I was hoping Blue Phantom would chime in about the book. I'm pretty excited about it. I believe that if you pour gasoline into a car then it will make the car operate. That is one belief that I have that is based on ignorance. I have many beliefs that are based on ignorance. I believe that if I type from my computer and press send then people from different parts of the world can read what I say. Nobody has the sufficient time to master all phenomenal aspects of life. We simply have to base most of our beliefs on ignorance.

Why do you demonize an efficient form of survival? A person that has never been burned by a stove bases their belief that a stuff will burn you if you touch entirely upon ignorance.

I just don't see the harm in religion or religious organizations. I see a lot of good that comes from them. Even the violent wars and persecution orchestrated in the name or religion can be argued on a case by case basis as a positive thing or question negative thing dependent upon values.

We don't like wars. That is the nature of war. It isn't supposed to be enjoyed or it wouldn't serve is function. I'm not sure why people get so uptight over religion. It seems harsh to me.

I think will be a much more evolved species when we drop all the organized lies. One only has to look over at the radical Muslims to see how Bad Religion can be or even the history of Christianity. Horrible.

Forget that book. You want to see something cool watch the cosmos. You may be able to get them at your library for free. Rent the old ones first with Carl Sagan then watch the new one with Neil deGrasse Tyson. They will blow your mind. The truth is so much better than the fairy tales. Religion has held us back as a species maybe ten thousand years

If we dropped the organized lies then someone would organize new lies. People enjoy believing untrue things. I used to work at a hotel. There were certain request that guests would make that I could not accommodate. They would argue and argue and basically demand that I lie to them. People enjoy lies.

Only a rare few want to hear the truth. Have you ever told a family friend that their food sucked? Probably not because you can tell that they want you to tell them that it is fantastic. However a restaurant owner genuinely wants you to tell the truth. The successful people in this world are attuned to the truth and appreciate it. The bulk of people in the world are satisfied with being happy and don't want to be interrupted with the truth.

Your fantasy of a religionless world isn't realistic at all. Even if it was achieved it would only last about 15 minutes.

If you were to play pro's and con's with religion it would win as a positive force hands down.

It seems to bother you simply because their stories aren't true. The salesman at the car dealership doesn't really own the same car he is showing you either. Lying is harmless in most situations. Try to see the positive facets of religion. There is a lot of good to see. It isn't so horrible that their stories aren't true.

I don't think my dream of a world where athiests outnumber religious people is impossible. I'm not talking spiritual, I'm talking about believing in one of the big 3.

No I don't see Islam Jews or Christians going away but I can say I know a few people who are church goers but many many more that don't. God rarely comes up in public unless I sneeze. Even then its just bless you now.

I watch TV a lot and God rarely comes up. I get it you think without it the world will be worse but I disagree. Imagine a debate on stem cell global warming or abortion without religion.

How is global warming a religious matter? I am not aware of any religious entity taking a position on global warming.

How can global warming be a problem when the Bible tells us exactly how the end is going to come? Do you see how religion keeps people ignorant?

 

[sealybobo]

You shouldn't be so sensitive when people say things that you don't like. You should reserve your frustration for when they do things that you don't like.

When a Christian says that you are going to bell then that shouldn't bother you too much. When someone jumps out of a bush with a gun and demands your money then that should bother you.

Talk is cheap. Most people never follow through with the plans they make. Most people change their favorite movie every month. We exaggerate constantly.

Actions speak louder than words.

I'll tell you a story a true story. Republicans between 2000 and 2008 I can't remember exactly but they fought stem cell research for their religious reasons. Fast forward to this year and Gordie Howe has a stroke. Because he has money they fly him to California for stem cell treatment that's illegal in Michigan because the Republicans passed it as it illegal. Now imagine all the poor people in Michigan that can't afford to fly to California like Gordie Howe again and they just died and suffer because of religion

 

[presonorek]

[QUOTE="vasuderatorrent, post:
That's funny Christian big bad bush invades little Iraq and you say its be that way without religion? It's exactly that way because of religion.

I don't think Spock was a bad person. He was logical. Do you think if the world full of vulcans would kill each other? I don't think so. I think we kill each other for God. Here comes gihad with Isis. Then there's the 100 year war between Catholics and Protestants. What was that all about? Or how we killed the Indians but that was OK because they weren't Christians.

Bush and Saddam weren't duking it out in an alley.

I meant that the world would be anarchy without armies. There would be no band of thugs. We would all be individuals fighting for survival.

Without a religious systems there is no motivation to put your life at risk for another man's cause.

 

[sealybobo]

You shouldn't be so sensitive when people say things that you don't like. You should reserve your frustration for when they do things that you don't like.

When a Christian says that you are going to bell then that shouldn't bother you too much. When someone jumps out of a bush with a gun and demands your money then that should bother you.

Talk is cheap. Most people never follow through with the plans they make. Most people change their favorite movie every month. We exaggerate constantly.

Actions speak louder than words.

Or another story, my mom has Alzheimers. It is no way to live. No one should have to suffer through that. It is a death without dignity and torture for not only the person with Alzheimers at their family. They should have been able to make plans where they could euthanize at a certain point but that's not legal because of religion. Least not in my state.

 

[sealybobo]

You shouldn't be so sensitive when people say things that you don't like. You should reserve your frustration for when they do things that you don't like.

When a Christian says that you are going to bell then that shouldn't bother you too much. When someone jumps out of a bush with a gun and demands your money then that should bother you.

Talk is cheap. Most people never follow through with the plans they make. Most people change their favorite movie every month. We exaggerate constantly.

Actions speak louder than words.

Oh and for the record I wouldn't kill my mom yet. But its getting real bad. I know if she could see herself now she would take a pill and end her life. And everyone of us in the family would take that pill too if it were us

 

[sealybobo]

[QUOTE="vasuderatorrent, post:
That's funny Christian big bad bush invades little Iraq and you say its be that way without religion? It's exactly that way because of religion.

I don't think Spock was a bad person. He was logical. Do you think if the world full of vulcans would kill each other? I don't think so. I think we kill each other for God. Here comes gihad with Isis. Then there's the 100 year war between Catholics and Protestants. What was that all about? Or how we killed the Indians but that was OK because they weren't Christians.

Bush and Saddam weren't duking it out in an alley.

I meant that the world would be anarchy without armies. There would be no band of thugs. We would all be individuals fighting for survival.

Without a religious systems there is no motivation to put your life at risk for another man's cause.

That's not what I hear from soldiers. They say they fight for the man to the left and right if them. Many I might remind you are athiests.

 

[presonorek]

Instead of enjoying every moment and the time that you have here and now I've had religious people tell me that is this is all there is then kill me now is what they said. That is very sad to me because I appreciate and love every minute of my life. I just understand when it's over it's over. People who need to believe in religion are not happy here and now and instead of fighting to change that reality they're waiting for an afterlife. I think that's why they use religion to control us without it we would fight for better in this lifetime not cope and wait for the pearly gates

Somebody has to make pizza, cut people's hair, sell cars, create financi statements and other nonscientific jobs. I do not see how their lives work would improve if they changed their belief system to a more realistic one. I could even argue that it would be detrimental to the here and now in some occupations.

Have you ever imagined a world full of non believers? I'm not so sure it would be a beautiful thing. I doubt you could raise an army without a god. How would you combat injustice without armies? It would be dog eat dog. We would be just like the animals. The strongest and most violent being would survive and procreate until we eventually evolved into a species of monsters.

This world is a wonderful place at this time in history. Some of that can be attributed to advances in science. Some of that can be attributed to religion. Ill take them both and tell them both to keep up the good work.

That's funny Christian big bad bush invades little Iraq and you say its be that way without religion? It's exactly that way because of religion.

I don't think Spock was a bad person. He was logical. Do you think if the world full of vulcans would kill each other? I don't think so. I think we kill each other for God. Here comes gihad with Isis. Then there's the 100 year war between Catholics and Protestants. What was that all about? Or how we killed the Indians but that was OK because they weren't Christians.

I believe war is good. I'm sorry if you think that I believe otherwise.

Yes. It sucks to get shot and blown up with bombs but that is the nature of war. If war didn't suck then nobody would surrender. You aren't supposed to like war. War is just supposed to resolve the issue of a shortage of resources. The winner gets survival for their tribe and the dominant tribe gets to perpetuate their philosophy. We have smaller conflicts that all of the time. You fight with your spouse or other family members. This is how life works. War will never disappear. We begin fighting with our siblings at a very early age.

Peace is inhumane.

 

[presonorek]

Blue Phantom will never find my comments on James Fowler.

 

[sealybobo]

Instead of enjoying every moment and the time that you have here and now I've had religious people tell me that is this is all there is then kill me now is what they said. That is very sad to me because I appreciate and love every minute of my life. I just understand when it's over it's over. People who need to believe in religion are not happy here and now and instead of fighting to change that reality they're waiting for an afterlife. I think that's why they use religion to control us without it we would fight for better in this lifetime not cope and wait for the pearly gates

Somebody has to make pizza, cut people's hair, sell cars, create financi statements and other nonscientific jobs. I do not see how their lives work would improve if they changed their belief system to a more realistic one. I could even argue that it would be detrimental to the here and now in some occupations.

Have you ever imagined a world full of non believers? I'm not so sure it would be a beautiful thing. I doubt you could raise an army without a god. How would you combat injustice without armies? It would be dog eat dog. We would be just like the animals. The strongest and most violent being would survive and procreate until we eventually evolved into a species of monsters.

This world is a wonderful place at this time in history. Some of that can be attributed to advances in science. Some of that can be attributed to religion. Ill take them both and tell them both to keep up the good work.

That's funny Christian big bad bush invades little Iraq and you say its be that way without religion? It's exactly that way because of religion.

I don't think Spock was a bad person. He was logical. Do you think if the world full of vulcans would kill each other? I don't think so. I think we kill each other for God. Here comes gihad with Isis. Then there's the 100 year war between Catholics and Protestants. What was that all about? Or how we killed the Indians but that was OK because they weren't Christians.

I believe war is good. I'm sorry if you think that I believe otherwise.

Yes. It sucks to get shot and blown up with bombs but that is the nature of war. If war didn't suck then nobody would surrender. You aren't supposed to like war. War is just supposed to resolve the issue of a shortage of resources. The winner gets survival for their tribe and the dominant tribe gets to perpetuate their philosophy. We have smaller conflicts that all of the time. You fight with your spouse or other family members. This is how life works. War will never disappear. We begin fighting with our siblings at a very early age.

Peace is inhumane.

You are still a very primitive unevolved homosapian. Think about how much smarter we are today compared to 1000 years ago. Now imagine how much smarter we will be in 1000. I'm optimistic you're wrong.