ISIS inside Baghdad, will Obama ramp it up?

[Rocko]

Someone give me ONE reason it is a threat to the vital interests of the US what goes on between ISIS and the sovereign nation of Iraq.

ISIS is our sworn enemy. We should kill them before they kill us. Now time for that nap.

ISIS has been made our enemy by our meddling. That's why ISIS isn't the enemy of the nations of the world who don't meddle.

ISIS is an enemy to anyone that doesn't share their belifes. If you think America is the root of the problem then for God sakes leave.

I'm not leaving my country just because people like you are determined to destroy it.

You should leave it. I mean a lot of people have died in our fight with Islamic extremism. If you feel the United States is the cause for such hatred and killing, the honorable thing to do is renounce your citizenship and say I will not stand with you anymore.

 

[Ibentoken]

Someone give me ONE reason it is a threat to the vital interests of the US what goes on between ISIS and the sovereign nation of Iraq.

Ask your president.

So you can't give us a single reason. Case closed. You support meddling in the Middle East for no good reason.

Your president is doing the meddling. I sure didn't vote for the idiot.

 

[Flopper]

Fuck you. I have firmly stated on MANY occasions on this forum what we should be/should have done.

Bombing Toyotas & vacant buildings was not part of my idea.

I gave my support to Obama from day one when he announced his decision. If he wants to keep that support he needs to make good on his plan. You know, decimate & destroy ISIS. FOURTEEN bombs a day is a god damn joke.

Actually the strategy is degrade and destroy. It is how we fight wars today, especially Iraq. Bush 41 and 43 both used the strategy until 43 veered off the page and decided to create an occupation force. Degrade comes before destroy. Destroying will take ground troops. At the present time the composition and abilities of those ground troops are unknown and various groups are being trained and equipped. The first part of the strategy, the degrade part is going slow because an abundance of caution to prevent losses and collateral damage are being taken. It's a good thing unless you prefer dead and beheaded airmen and civilian casualties. Whatever ground forces are used will be grateful for the degradation part of the strategy.

It's a good strategy that has certainly worked many times. I don't think there's any question that ground troops are going into Iraq. The question is when, how many, and their origin. It's been suggested that the greatest need in the Iraqi army is leadership. That can be provided without a massive number of troops.

there was too much corruption in their mil leadership ranks. They collected pay for ghost soldiers and made the real soldiers pay for uniforms/supplies that should have been given to them.

The military has always been corrupt in Iraq. Under Saddam, the military fought or ended up in Abu Ghraib or worse.

When we rebuilt the Iraqi military we made the erroneous assumption that they would fight for the nation if threaten. Nationalism, pride and patriotism demand it. The problem was that none of those attributes were present in the military. Being a solder in Iraq meant having a steady job, certainly not risking your life for the country.

Iraq has always been held together by force. Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds often refuse to work together. Baghdad and Basra are modern secular cities and have little in common with most of Iraq which consist of very small towns and villages filled with goat and sheep herders, peasant farmers, and Bedouins. Languages vary as you go through the country. About half the people speak Arabic and reminder speak Kurdish or Turkmen. Politically the country is extremely divided with over 25 political parities in Parliament. The best way to describe Iraq is a nation divided, very divided.

"Nationalism, pride and patriotism demand it. The problem was that none of those attributes were present in the military."


Flopper, this was not my experience with most Iraqis. Are you familiar with CPATT...the organization that trained police, border patrol, etc.? I worked very closely with them.

The folks in charge of training them used to say it would be hard to rewire the thinking of a lot of current

Are the Iraqis ever going to do anything?

You really are an idiot on this topic. We'll call ya when it's all over and update ya. (roll eyes)

Yes, because the Iraqi Army has put up such a great fight against ISIS.

What part of "command structure missing" you not grasp?? That's missing because your hero, the great idiotic Obama pulled out.

I only know what I have read about CPATT. I based my statements on the performance of the Army. At Fallujah, and Mosul troops refused to fight. In 2008, Iraqi soldiers refuse to go to Baghdad to restore order. In 2007, U.S. and Iraqi soldiers pushed into a dangerous areas of west Baghdad and various parts of the military refused to participate. As you move away from Baghdad, the situation is worse. The Kurds in the north are fighting ISIS because they're invading Iraqi Kurdistan, not because they attacking Iraq. When the Kurds capture villages, they refuse to turn them over to the Iraqi army.

Many Sunnis see the Shiite government in Iraq as a bigger enemy than ISIS and for good reason. The Shiite government during Saddam's tenure and after have used the Sunnis as a scapegoat for most of Iraqi's problems. The Kurds are a separate ethnic group from other Iraqis. They are mostly Sunni but have poor relations with both Shiite and Sunni Iraqis.

Nationalism in Iraq exist primarily in the minds of the Iraqi prime minister and cabinet. It's too bad the US government didn't realize that only the brute force of Saddam's regime held the country together. Today it seems the whole nation is held together with spit and glue.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Was it Biden that called for separate states in Iraq? Smart either way but for one thing. All those little states with little to no central government would have been easy pickings for a group like ISIS.

 

[Flopper]

The last report I saw was an actual pentagon briefing. Not some hyperbole spouted off by some super secret confidential source reported on a paranoiaisus website.

Yeah, cuz the Pentagon always tells ya the truth. Come on man!

Repubs are in bed w/ defense contractors. Have been & will continue to be. Corporate welfare/cronyism

I think your hubby must have hidden you daily dose of Bon Bons cause you're gettin quite looney in this thread.

you ever serve? When where? i ask because you, like most rw career civilians in this thread have no problem sending other people to carry out your zany, unpaid-for, rw world police actions.

In fairness, both Parties have advanced the 'Permanent War' agenda for many years. This is a great piece from John Stossel on how Neocons and Progressives are really the same entity in the end. They're both staunch supporters of endless Intervention/War...

There are very few things that will bring the two parties together. Unfortunately war is one of them.

As long as the US maintains it's position as policeman of the world, an endless chain of wars will be our destiny.

 

[Flopper]

Was it Biden that called for separate states in Iraq? Smart either way but for one thing. All those little states with little to no central government would have been easy pickings for a group like ISIS.

Well, so far the Iraqi central government hasn't been very effective. As the Iraqi army abandoned its posts along the “green line”, more than 621 miles that separates the Kurdish-run areas from Arab Iraq, Kurdish forces have leaped forward and captured all territory that has been in dispute with Iraqi central government. Unlike the Iraqi army, the Kurds have been successful at repealing ISIS fighters. Their success is due primarily to the fact that they are fighting for their new nations, Iraqi Kurdistan.

 

[paulitician]

Also, it's important to point out that ISIS is not inside Baghdad. The OP is mistaken.

No, the op is not. They are in Baghdad suburbs and it is estimated that they are waiting on some 10k reinforcements before they advance further.

We either need to evacuate our personnel or send in enough troops to protect the green zone BEFORE another Benghazi style attack only larger happens.

ISIS is not inside Baghdad. There is no evidence to support that claim. But even if they are, it won't be for long. They don't have the numbers or weaponry to pull off a major assault. With all the $Billions in Tax Dollars the Iraq Military has at its disposal, it should be a route. It also has the numbers. The Shiite majority will not allow Baghdad to fall. ISIS is by far the most over-hyped threat in History. They won't be taking over Baghdad, let alone the World.

 

[paulitician]

Yeah, cuz the Pentagon always tells ya the truth. Come on man!

Repubs are in bed w/ defense contractors. Have been & will continue to be. Corporate welfare/cronyism

I think your hubby must have hidden you daily dose of Bon Bons cause you're gettin quite looney in this thread.

you ever serve? When where? i ask because you, like most rw career civilians in this thread have no problem sending other people to carry out your zany, unpaid-for, rw world police actions.

In fairness, both Parties have advanced the 'Permanent War' agenda for many years. This is a great piece from John Stossel on how Neocons and Progressives are really the same entity in the end. They're both staunch supporters of endless Intervention/War...

There are very few things that will bring the two parties together. Unfortunately war is one of them.

As long as the US maintains it's position as policeman of the world, an endless chain of wars will be our destiny.

It isn't about 'Policing.' It's not about righteous causes. It's about seizing control of Banking Systems and plundering resources. It's the real reason we're still in these shitholes.

 

[Dot Com]

Repubs are in bed w/ defense contractors. Have been & will continue to be. Corporate welfare/cronyism

I think your hubby must have hidden you daily dose of Bon Bons cause you're gettin quite looney in this thread.

you ever serve? When where? i ask because you, like most rw career civilians in this thread have no problem sending other people to carry out your zany, unpaid-for, rw world police actions.

In fairness, both Parties have advanced the 'Permanent War' agenda for many years. This is a great piece from John Stossel on how Neocons and Progressives are really the same entity in the end. They're both staunch supporters of endless Intervention/War...

There are very few things that will bring the two parties together. Unfortunately war is one of them.

As long as the US maintains it's position as policeman of the world, an endless chain of wars will be our destiny.

It isn't about 'Policing.' It's not about righteous causes. It's about seizing control of Banking Systems and plundering resources. It's the real reason we're still in these shitholes.

their ideology blinds them to any motives other than what their spoon-fed by the corporately-owned media.

 

[paulitician]

I think your hubby must have hidden you daily dose of Bon Bons cause you're gettin quite looney in this thread.

you ever serve? When where? i ask because you, like most rw career civilians in this thread have no problem sending other people to carry out your zany, unpaid-for, rw world police actions.

In fairness, both Parties have advanced the 'Permanent War' agenda for many years. This is a great piece from John Stossel on how Neocons and Progressives are really the same entity in the end. They're both staunch supporters of endless Intervention/War...

There are very few things that will bring the two parties together. Unfortunately war is one of them.

As long as the US maintains it's position as policeman of the world, an endless chain of wars will be our destiny.

It isn't about 'Policing.' It's not about righteous causes. It's about seizing control of Banking Systems and plundering resources. It's the real reason we're still in these shitholes.

their ideology blinds them to any motives other than what their spoon-fed by the corporately-owned media.

Spot On there. Most truly believe we're still in these Shitholes because of some righteous cause. It's so incredibly delusional. We're still in these Shitholes because we're plundering their resources. That's the reality.

 

[Dot Com]

you ever serve? When where? i ask because you, like most rw career civilians in this thread have no problem sending other people to carry out your zany, unpaid-for, rw world police actions.

In fairness, both Parties have advanced the 'Permanent War' agenda for many years. This is a great piece from John Stossel on how Neocons and Progressives are really the same entity in the end. They're both staunch supporters of endless Intervention/War...

There are very few things that will bring the two parties together. Unfortunately war is one of them.

As long as the US maintains it's position as policeman of the world, an endless chain of wars will be our destiny.

It isn't about 'Policing.' It's not about righteous causes. It's about seizing control of Banking Systems and plundering resources. It's the real reason we're still in these shitholes.

their ideology blinds them to any motives other than what their spoon-fed by the corporately-owned media.

Spot On there. Most truly believe we're still in these Shitholes because of some righteous cause. It's so incredibly delusional. We're still in these Shitholes because we're plundering their resources. That's the reality.

yep. Thats the way its been for a generation or three now.

 

[paulitician]

The Iraq invasion unleashed this awful chaos. Sunnis in Iraq are now joining ISIS in droves. They now see real possibilities of victory. ISIS has actually given them hope. They're taking off the Iraq Military uniform and joining ISIS. Why would they continue fighting to defend a U.S. Shiite Puppet Government? This is an opportunity. Can you blame them for seizing it?

 

[Dot Com]

The Iraq invasion unleashed this awful chaos. Sunnis in Iraq are now joining ISIS in droves. They now see real possibilities of victory. ISIS has actually given them hope. They're taking off the Iraq Military uniform and joining ISIS. Why would they continue fighting to defend a U.S. Shiite Puppet Government? This is an opportunity. Can you blame them for seizing it?

exactly. Iraq was created to be exploited by an imperialist power as well. Same thing in Nigeria. Iraq didn't draw its state borders.

 

[paulitician]

The Iraq invasion unleashed this awful chaos. Sunnis in Iraq are now joining ISIS in droves. They now see real possibilities of victory. ISIS has actually given them hope. They're taking off the Iraq Military uniform and joining ISIS. Why would they continue fighting to defend a U.S. Shiite Puppet Government? This is an opportunity. Can you blame them for seizing it?

exactly. Iraq was created to be exploited by an imperialist power as well. Same thing in Nigeria. Iraq didn't draw its state borders.

Yup.

 

[Flopper]

Also, it's important to point out that ISIS is not inside Baghdad. The OP is mistaken.

No, the op is not. They are in Baghdad suburbs and it is estimated that they are waiting on some 10k reinforcements before they advance further.

We either need to evacuate our personnel or send in enough troops to protect the green zone BEFORE another Benghazi style attack only larger happens.

ISIS is not inside Baghdad. There is no evidence to support that claim. But even if they are, it won't be for long. They don't have the numbers or weaponry to pull off a major assault. With all the $Billions in Tax Dollars the Iraq Military has at its disposal, it should be a route. It also has the numbers. The Shiite majority will not allow Baghdad to fall. ISIS is by far the most over-hyped threat in History. They won't be taking over Baghdad, let alone the World.

Every potential crisis is over-hyped today. The media does it because that's what they do. Politicians do it to further their agenda. The public does it for entertainment.

 

[Flopper]

The Iraq invasion unleashed this awful chaos. Sunnis in Iraq are now joining ISIS in droves. They now see real possibilities of victory. ISIS has actually given them hope. They're taking off the Iraq Military uniform and joining ISIS. Why would they continue fighting to defend a U.S. Shiite Puppet Government? This is an opportunity. Can you blame them for seizing it?

exactly. Iraq was created to be exploited by an imperialist power as well. Same thing in Nigeria. Iraq didn't draw its state borders.

No they didn't and that's a major contributing factor to the problems we see in Iraq today. The British created the nation of Iraq without taking into account the politics of the different ethnic and religious groups. People with different cultures, different languages, different religions, and a history of hostility were thrown together to form a nation.

Nationalism is the one essential ingredient in a free independent nation. It did not exist then and does not exist today in Iraq. If the people in a nation do not share common beliefs and identify with the nation, it can only be held together only by force.

 

[Dot Com]

The Iraq invasion unleashed this awful chaos. Sunnis in Iraq are now joining ISIS in droves. They now see real possibilities of victory. ISIS has actually given them hope. They're taking off the Iraq Military uniform and joining ISIS. Why would they continue fighting to defend a U.S. Shiite Puppet Government? This is an opportunity. Can you blame them for seizing it?

exactly. Iraq was created to be exploited by an imperialist power as well. Same thing in Nigeria. Iraq didn't draw its state borders.

No they didn't and that's a major contributing factor to the problems we see in Iraq today. The British created the nation of Iraq without taking into account the politics of the different ethnic and religious groups. People with different cultures, different languages, different religions, and a history of hostility were thrown together to form a nation.

Nationalism is the one essential ingredient in a free independent nation. It did not exist then and does not exist today in Iraq. If the people in a nation do not share common beliefs and identify with the nation, it can only be held together only by force.

They DID take that into acct. To busy the indigenous populace infighting while the imperial power plundered their resources.

 

[Flopper]

The Iraq invasion unleashed this awful chaos. Sunnis in Iraq are now joining ISIS in droves. They now see real possibilities of victory. ISIS has actually given them hope. They're taking off the Iraq Military uniform and joining ISIS. Why would they continue fighting to defend a U.S. Shiite Puppet Government? This is an opportunity. Can you blame them for seizing it?

exactly. Iraq was created to be exploited by an imperialist power as well. Same thing in Nigeria. Iraq didn't draw its state borders.

No they didn't and that's a major contributing factor to the problems we see in Iraq today. The British created the nation of Iraq without taking into account the politics of the different ethnic and religious groups. People with different cultures, different languages, different religions, and a history of hostility were thrown together to form a nation.

Nationalism is the one essential ingredient in a free independent nation. It did not exist then and does not exist today in Iraq. If the people in a nation do not share common beliefs and identify with the nation, it can only be held together only by force.

They DID take that into acct. To busy the indigenous populace infighting while the imperial power plundered their resources.

There's no doubt that the British and French plundered Iraqi oil. The British and French got 80% of the oil revenue and were able to get concession out the new government to push their share to over 90%. The borders of modern Iraq were drawn to fit with Britain''s colonial interests in the region. However, the haphazard way the boarders were draw created endless disputes between Iraq and both Iran and Turkey. I think Britain's main purpose was to see that all oil fields, current and future as well access and shipping were within those boundaries. Although Britain officially gave up control of Iraq in 1932, unofficially, they controlled Iraq up to WWII and after the war.

 

[paulitician]

Has ISIS taken Baghdad, and took over the World yet? Just checking.

Seriously though, calm down people. ISIS is the most over-hyped threat in history. It won't be taking over the world. So chill out and have a good day.

 

[Flopper]

Has ISIS taken Baghdad, and took over the World yet? Just checking.

Seriously though, calm down people. ISIS is the most over-hyped threat in history. It won't be taking over the world. So chill out and have a good day.

According to CNN, ISIS has been successful in Anbar province against poorly trained and equipped Iraqi forces. However, ISIS has yet to confront Iraqi troops around Baghdad which are far better trained and equipped.

I seriously doubt that ISIS will come anywhere near their of goal of turning Iraq into an Islamic Republic. Both the Kurds and the Iranians have their own plans.

The Kurds who have been fairly successful at repelling ISIS fighters. have taken all the areas that have been in dispute with the central Iraqi government. To the east, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard units have moved into Iraq. My guess is that neither the Kurds nor the Iranians are going to willing give up the Iraqi territory they now occupy irregardless of what happens with ISIS.