Islam and Mental Illness

[ScienceRocks]

All insane religious types that carry guns around all day long have mental illness.

 

[koshergrl]

When a person does something crazy, even violent and crazy - we usually accept that they are mentally ill. Our culture still has a long ways to go in regards to erasing the stigma of mental illness, and recognizing it as something that needs treatment - but it's come a long ways.

But, when that person is Muslim, there seems to be a double stigma attached to it. One: they are Muslim, and any crazy or violent behavior is blamed on their religion. Two: they are crazy, and mental illness still retains a huge stigma in the Muslim Community.

Take for example:

Amina Ali Ahra, who out of the blue grabbed a flag, and started attacking a nearby woman. She'd been reported as hanging around the area but did not live there, chased another woman into her house and when arrested was unable to give police coherent information. This sparked threads, claims of outrage directed at Muslim extremists and Muslims in general and immigrants in general, and in the end it was determined she had mental issues.

Nicholas Salvadore, who went on a bloody rampage, decapitating an elderly woman and two cats. Much was made of it as a religious terrorist attack because he was a Muslim. But, he was also mentally ill, and a paranoid schitzophrenic.

If they were not Muslim, it would quickly have been yesterday's news, no demands for "why isn't this in the news" etc. If they were not Muslim, people would have considered mental illness as a causative factor because the "religion thing" would not have been occupying so much headspace. It's also possible that if they hadn't been Muslim, their families and friends may have recognized signs and sought treatment in childhood before it erupted in to a tragedy.

‘Muslims must fight this taboo’ Islamic leaders want stigma around mental illness to end

Praising the Sunday Express for its Crusade for better mental health Shaykh Ibrahim Mogra, assistant Secretary-General for the Muslim Council of Britain, said feelings of shame, cultural and religious ignorance and a general lack of physical fitness meant that the rate of mental illness within Muslim communities far exceeded the three per cent national average.

In some quarters the situation was so bad that parents have banned schools from referring to their children as having special educational needs in awards ceremonies because of the perceived stigma involved, or feelings of personal guilt.

“Mental Illness still remains a taboo subject in Muslim communities and people are not seeking the help that is available. This is causing unnecessary distress to themselves and loved ones,” he said.

“Many parents try to keep mental illness with children hidden and under the radar. They don't want anyone to know. Sometimes they feel it's their fault, that as parents they are responsible for their children’s’ conditions. And others might agree.”​

My Opinion:

Most mentally ill people are very religious to start with and combining their religious way of thinking and mental problems usually turn into a blood bath.

Mental illness need to be address but I also fanatical religion should also be focused on because it prey on the weak minded that have mental issues and look to religious guidance but instead get manipulated into believing in all the wrong things and going batshit crazy.

Omar Mateen was nuts and wanted to use his religion to justify his heinous acts against the people of Orlando.

Actually I would like someone to show me one Terrorist that was not mentally ill and when you do then you have taught me a lesson...

Most mentally ill people are religious? Please cite the study that confirms that.

You can't because it isn't true, and that study doesn't exist. What an asshat.

 

[koshergrl]

Most mentally ill people are more likely to be the victim of crime rather than carefully plot and execute plans to conduct slaughter en masse.

Actually, Tilly, both are true. Most of the recent mass killings have involved mentally ill people (in the US): Sandy Hook, the Aurora theatre, VA tech, Gabby Gifford. It's also true they represent a disproportionate number of victims of violence.

Why is it that when the perpetrators are muslim, such as the two examples I gave in the OP, mental illness is discounted?

This COULD be because we no longer trust our government to play "sanctuary country" with our security. Along with the examples in the OP -- news this week that 10 immigrant Somalis were tried in just ONE Minnesota city. 6 plead guilty to conspiring to join ISIS and 3 more of the 10 were convicted. The 10th is believed to already be in the Mid East with ISIS.

So -- we can't trust that Federal "heroic liberal altruism" is screening refugees for mental illness or relations to violent orgs, or any NUMBER of things that we would expect them to... And just observing a lot of these cultures that we are putting in the EXPRESS immigration lane -- in their natural HOME cultures -- would fit any definition of mental illness, scientific or layperson wise. Such is the state of these theocratic tyrannical piss pits.

Why are we ALLOWING the mentally ill and folks prone to supporting ISIS INTO this country in the 1st place?
That's where your pushback is coming from..

If it was up to me.. We'd treat terrorist sympathizers like organized crime. And make it illegal for them to even pledge allegiance or CONTACT these orgs. That way the 10 Minnesota Somalis would be facing deportation and enhanced jail time and the PEOPLE of America would demand better screening for these "feel good" programs.

THEN -- I could be MUCH MORE open to talking about generous immigration from these diseased areas of the world..

So it works. They were identified and caught and most likely, with the help of the immigrant community (according to the FBI they get a lot of tips from the immigrant and muslim communities).

Secondly, what makes you think mentally ill people are being "allowed" in? Mental illness isn't always apparent.

No... It DOESN'T work. THey should be deported. They should be declared in violation of their immigration status and RETURNED to Somalia.[ /quote]

As opposed to prosecution?

As far as screening for mental illness. I just told you. BY OBSERVATION, the cultures these people come from FIT the very definition of MULTIPLE mental illnesses. Cultures where ritual honor killings, stoning, and amputations are public events. MASS psychotic killing, legal humiliation and mutilation, and systemic hate taught in schools. That IS demented -- is it not???

It would be IF what you said was accurate. If those things were as common as sensationalist media portrays (
the same media vilified for blatent inaccuracies).

Unfortunately it is not mental illness, which is an organic brain disease.

Bullshit.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

There's nothing to understand, aside from THEY WANT TO KILL US and bring the entire world under sharia law. It doesn't matter that they don't ALL want this (though of course the vast majority do, we all know it, they even admit it). The sharia law thing in and of itself should be enough to make it illegal for them (any of them) to come into this country, let alone settle here on OUR dime. Their faith and their beliefs will not work in a free society. They are free to believe as they choose..but they can't come here and expect us to accommodate their beliefs because their beliefs pose a threat to the safety and stability of our country and our citizens.

Morons like coyote think that the US is a fucking toilet where we are obliged to let any idiot in who can get his diseased ass over the border, and let them attack our citizens and our systems. If they want to attack our citizens and our systems, then they are ENEMIES and we need to protect ourselves from them.

That means shut the borders. Fuck Islam.

My nearest neighbor and I were discussing this today. His fiancée left on a flight for the East Coast today. Naturally he is worried about airport terrorism.

We traced the entire issue back first to Harry Truman who concluded that it was politically necessary to align with the new State Of Israel due to the high American Jewish minority.

This situation then got worse when GW Bush invaded Iraq and got Saddam killed. Saddam had been a fairly faithful ally and was keeping the sh!t hole of Iraq under control. Look at it now.

At any rate we concluded that if a bunch of bombers attacked and airport entrance there is nothing you can do about it except run like a rat.

And the best thing is to avoid nightclubs. Nightclubs have beep prime targets for Islamists because they represent decadent congregations of fornication and adultery. So stick with speed dating.

And avoid airports as much as you can.

Seriouzly...why?

You are worried about a very rare event. You are more likely to be hit you lightening or run over by a car.

You are trying to discuss a complex issue with people who believe there is a cure for Gayness. Heroic doesnt cover it. Much respect but your argument is way over their limited comprehension.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

There's nothing to understand, aside from THEY WANT TO KILL US and bring the entire world under sharia law. It doesn't matter that they don't ALL want this (though of course the vast majority do, we all know it, they even admit it). The sharia law thing in and of itself should be enough to make it illegal for them (any of them) to come into this country, let alone settle here on OUR dime. Their faith and their beliefs will not work in a free society. They are free to believe as they choose..but they can't come here and expect us to accommodate their beliefs because their beliefs pose a threat to the safety and stability of our country and our citizens.

Morons like coyote think that the US is a fucking toilet where we are obliged to let any idiot in who can get his diseased ass over the border, and let them attack our citizens and our systems. If they want to attack our citizens and our systems, then they are ENEMIES and we need to protect ourselves from them.

That means shut the borders. Fuck Islam.

My nearest neighbor and I were discussing this today. His fiancée left on a flight for the East Coast today. Naturally he is worried about airport terrorism.

We traced the entire issue back first to Harry Truman who concluded that it was politically necessary to align with the new State Of Israel due to the high American Jewish minority.

This situation then got worse when GW Bush invaded Iraq and got Saddam killed. Saddam had been a fairly faithful ally and was keeping the sh!t hole of Iraq under control. Look at it now.

At any rate we concluded that if a bunch of bombers attacked and airport entrance there is nothing you can do about it except run like a rat.

And the best thing is to avoid nightclubs. Nightclubs have beep prime targets for Islamists because they represent decadent congregations of fornication and adultery. So stick with speed dating.

And avoid airports as much as you can.

Seriouzly...why?

You are worried about a very rare event. You are more likely to be hit you lightening or run over by a car.

You are trying to discuss a complex issue with people who believe there is a cure for Gayness. Heroic doesnt cover it. Much respect but your argument is way over their limited comprehension.

You're wrong.

I don't at all think there's a cure for what you have.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

You are trying to discuss a complex issue with people who believe there is a cure for Gayness. Heroic doesnt cover it. Much respect but your argument is way over their limited comprehension.

I am entirely supportive of gay rights.

My IQ is 40-50 points higher than yours, however, and so I do not support the most homophobic group of people in the world as do you.

It takes a special type of stupid to bring gay rights into a thread where it is not the issue while supporting those who hate gays so much that hundreds of millions support death for homosexuals.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You are trying to discuss a complex issue with people who believe there is a cure for Gayness. Heroic doesnt cover it. Much respect but your argument is way over their limited comprehension.

I am entirely supportive of gay rights.

My IQ is 40-50 points higher than yours, however, and so I do not support the most homophobic group of people in the world as do you.

It takes a special type of stupid to bring gay rights into a thread where it is not the issue while supporting those who hate gays so much that hundreds of millions support death for homosexuals.

My comments were meant to shine a light on the imbecility of the people that Coyote is trying to educate.

How you construe that as support for Muslim homophobia is lost on me.

Perhaps I need to up my IQ by 40 or 50 points so that I can breathe the same air as you do ?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

You are trying to discuss a complex issue with people who believe there is a cure for Gayness. Heroic doesnt cover it. Much respect but your argument is way over their limited comprehension.

I am entirely supportive of gay rights.

My IQ is 40-50 points higher than yours, however, and so I do not support the most homophobic group of people in the world as do you.

It takes a special type of stupid to bring gay rights into a thread where it is not the issue while supporting those who hate gays so much that hundreds of millions support death for homosexuals.

My comments were meant to shine a light on the imbecility of the people that Coyote is trying to educate.

How you construe that as support for Muslim homophobia is lost on me.

Perhaps I need to up my IQ by 40 or 50 points so that I can breathe the same air as you do ?

Coyote is not trying to educate anybody. She is trying to fool them because she has a patently obvious agenda.

If you were not such a fool, you would realize that.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

You are trying to discuss a complex issue with people who believe there is a cure for Gayness. Heroic doesnt cover it. Much respect but your argument is way over their limited comprehension.

I am entirely supportive of gay rights.

My IQ is 40-50 points higher than yours, however, and so I do not support the most homophobic group of people in the world as do you.

It takes a special type of stupid to bring gay rights into a thread where it is not the issue while supporting those who hate gays so much that hundreds of millions support death for homosexuals.

My comments were meant to shine a light on the imbecility of the people that Coyote is trying to educate.

How you construe that as support for Muslim homophobia is lost on me.

Perhaps I need to up my IQ by 40 or 50 points so that I can breathe the same air as you do ?

Coyote is not trying to educate anybody. She is trying to fool them because she has a patently obvious agenda.

If you were not such a fool, you would realize that.

She raises interesting points. Only a blind bigot would deny that.

Sadly it appears that reason and common sense attracts idiocy and bigotry like a magnet attracts iron filings.

This thread proves this.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

You are trying to discuss a complex issue with people who believe there is a cure for Gayness. Heroic doesnt cover it. Much respect but your argument is way over their limited comprehension.

I am entirely supportive of gay rights.

My IQ is 40-50 points higher than yours, however, and so I do not support the most homophobic group of people in the world as do you.

It takes a special type of stupid to bring gay rights into a thread where it is not the issue while supporting those who hate gays so much that hundreds of millions support death for homosexuals.

My comments were meant to shine a light on the imbecility of the people that Coyote is trying to educate.

How you construe that as support for Muslim homophobia is lost on me.

Perhaps I need to up my IQ by 40 or 50 points so that I can breathe the same air as you do ?

Coyote is not trying to educate anybody. She is trying to fool them because she has a patently obvious agenda.

If you were not such a fool, you would realize that.

She raises interesting points. Only a blind bigot would deny that.

Sadly it appears that reason and common sense attracts idiocy and bigotry like a magnet attracts iron filings.

This thread proves this.

Coyote raises no points. She simply indulges in the usual false equivalences of an Islamist apologist and lies in regards to cause and effect in order to serve Islam.


You are far too stupid to understand.

 

[Coyote]

Mental illness is a serious issue. The OP is not stating that all or even most terrorists are mentally ill and neither am I - but mental illness clearly is a factor in some cases. Yet, there is a severe disconnect here on multiple levels.

There is a close association between mental illness and religiousity. Not so much that religion causes mental illness, but mentally ill people tend to be drawn to religion.

When a person like Deanna Laney kills her children by stoning because "God told her to" - there is little doubt in our minds that she is severely disturbed. Yet, when Palmira Silva was decapitated by a Muslim convert in London - most here insisted it was his religion that was at fault and refused to consider mental illness despite the fact he was seen talking to himself nonsensically and trying to decapitate invisible cats. If it's a Muslim, it's his or her religion. Same with the Somali woman that grabbed a flag to attack a Texas woman.

That is the first disconnect. Such an intense hatred, not just for Muslim extremists, but any Muslims, so that a person can't see beyond the religion or see that that the cause is something other than than religion.

The second disconnect is within the Muslim community itself - enough of a disconnect that Imam's are openly speaking of it and that is the inability of the community to come to grips with mental illness amongst it's members. That means children don't get treatment, are ostracized or hidden, adults are isolated and it's not recognized as a disease that can and should be treated. The Christian community has done better than the Muslim community in that regard.

Of course, that's attempting to look at the issue rationally.

 

[Coyote]

When a person does something crazy, even violent and crazy - we usually accept that they are mentally ill. Our culture still has a long ways to go in regards to erasing the stigma of mental illness, and recognizing it as something that needs treatment - but it's come a long ways.

But, when that person is Muslim, there seems to be a double stigma attached to it. One: they are Muslim, and any crazy or violent behavior is blamed on their religion. Two: they are crazy, and mental illness still retains a huge stigma in the Muslim Community.

Take for example:

Amina Ali Ahra, who out of the blue grabbed a flag, and started attacking a nearby woman. She'd been reported as hanging around the area but did not live there, chased another woman into her house and when arrested was unable to give police coherent information. This sparked threads, claims of outrage directed at Muslim extremists and Muslims in general and immigrants in general, and in the end it was determined she had mental issues.

Nicholas Salvadore, who went on a bloody rampage, decapitating an elderly woman and two cats. Much was made of it as a religious terrorist attack because he was a Muslim. But, he was also mentally ill, and a paranoid schitzophrenic.

If they were not Muslim, it would quickly have been yesterday's news, no demands for "why isn't this in the news" etc. If they were not Muslim, people would have considered mental illness as a causative factor because the "religion thing" would not have been occupying so much headspace. It's also possible that if they hadn't been Muslim, their families and friends may have recognized signs and sought treatment in childhood before it erupted in to a tragedy.

‘Muslims must fight this taboo’ Islamic leaders want stigma around mental illness to end

Praising the Sunday Express for its Crusade for better mental health Shaykh Ibrahim Mogra, assistant Secretary-General for the Muslim Council of Britain, said feelings of shame, cultural and religious ignorance and a general lack of physical fitness meant that the rate of mental illness within Muslim communities far exceeded the three per cent national average.

In some quarters the situation was so bad that parents have banned schools from referring to their children as having special educational needs in awards ceremonies because of the perceived stigma involved, or feelings of personal guilt.

“Mental Illness still remains a taboo subject in Muslim communities and people are not seeking the help that is available. This is causing unnecessary distress to themselves and loved ones,” he said.

“Many parents try to keep mental illness with children hidden and under the radar. They don't want anyone to know. Sometimes they feel it's their fault, that as parents they are responsible for their children’s’ conditions. And others might agree.”​

My Opinion:

Most mentally ill people are very religious to start with and combining their religious way of thinking and mental problems usually turn into a blood bath.

Mental illness need to be address but I also fanatical religion should also be focused on because it prey on the weak minded that have mental issues and look to religious guidance but instead get manipulated into believing in all the wrong things and going batshit crazy.

Omar Mateen was nuts and wanted to use his religion to justify his heinous acts against the people of Orlando.

Actually I would like someone to show me one Terrorist that was not mentally ill and when you do then you have taught me a lesson...

Most mentally ill people are religious? Please cite the study that confirms that.

You can't because it isn't true, and that study doesn't exist. What an asshat.

I don't know about most mentally ill people being religious but there is a strong link between hyper-religiosity and mental illness, particularly schizophrenia and bipolar.

 

[Coyote]

You are trying to discuss a complex issue with people who believe there is a cure for Gayness. Heroic doesnt cover it. Much respect but your argument is way over their limited comprehension.

I am entirely supportive of gay rights.

My IQ is 40-50 points higher than yours, however, and so I do not support the most homophobic group of people in the world as do you.

It takes a special type of stupid to bring gay rights into a thread where it is not the issue while supporting those who hate gays so much that hundreds of millions support death for homosexuals.

My comments were meant to shine a light on the imbecility of the people that Coyote is trying to educate.

How you construe that as support for Muslim homophobia is lost on me.

Perhaps I need to up my IQ by 40 or 50 points so that I can breathe the same air as you do ?

Coyote is not trying to educate anybody. She is trying to fool them because she has a patently obvious agenda.

If you were not such a fool, you would realize that.

She raises interesting points. Only a blind bigot would deny that.

Sadly it appears that reason and common sense attracts idiocy and bigotry like a magnet attracts iron filings.

This thread proves this.

Would have been bettter to post it in CDZ where a genuine discussion could take place - too late for that though

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Would have been bettter to post it in CDZ

But everywhere you post become the Coyote Disingenuous Zone.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Mental illness is a serious issue.

Here is a link you may find helpful

ARE YOU SUFFERING FROM: MONOMANIA

 

[Coyote]

The article in the OP was interesting, particularly in relation to the two examples I gave and the way certain people immediately ignored those examples and jumped to terrorists. Mental illness is a serious issue and its one that I have advocated for across these boards for years, irrespective of Islam. It's the only disease that still holds a powerful stigma that prevents it's sufferers from seeking treatment. It's the only disease that is often seen as a failure of character. It's the only disease that is still often not recognized as a disease by families, who won't seek appropriate treatment. It is also the first casualty of funding cuts. Cut funds for cancer? Hell no!

The Orlando shooter was not a radical according to authorities. There was no evidence of radicalization. There were multiple accounts describing him as unstable, violent, erratic. That doesn't come out of the blue. Family had to have noticed these behaviors. His ex wife and current wife did. But all his father would say was he got angry at two men kissing. If, in Islamic culture mental illness were not such a taboo, could some intervention have occurred before the tragedy?

Maybe not, but the fact that there is a cultural reluctance to address mental illness speaks volumes. As does the reluctance of those who refuse to even consider mental illness when the perpetrator is Muslim (as in the two examples I gave).

Are you saying his repeated pledges of allegiance to Al Baghdadi and ISIS were a sign of mental illness? It was his FATHER who was certifiably crazy. He was a Federal rescue from Afghan when the US SUPPORTED the Taliban back in the 80s.. His entire lIfe was built around believing he would return to Afghan as a Taliban leader. And the US played along with his "delusions".. That's not mental illness in the son. That is the CULTURE he was raised in.

I'm repeating what investigators said. I'm on my phone and can't cut and paste, but Google it.

I agree culture plays a role, including one in which mental illness is recognized and treated. The son was described by multiple people as erratic, violent, explosive, controlling.

Those descriptions are a warning sign. It is NOT a diagnosis of mental illness. That's the definition of a good NFL Linebacker..

I think explosive and erratic can be a warning sign of somethong wrong, or maybe steroid use.

I did not say diagnosis.
But if the culture is to hide mental illness then who knows?

Let me say it again. The cultures that many of these people come from ARE systemically mentally ill. By definition of their observed behaviors and restraint of free will and thought. The entire structure of their societies is BUILT about psychotic or sociopathic actions and expectations.

So going down this road you are traveling trying to decouple mental illness from Islam is NOT gonna convince folks that we are doing a great job in rescuing the RIGHT people from these cultures and bringing them to the US.. It's NOT ISLAM. It's where they are COMING FROM...

Ok. So what you are seem to be doing is coupling mental illness to Islam at the same time as you are saying it isn't Islam.

You attribute characteristics to Islamic culture that, in fact, are issues in other cultures: restraint of free will and thought, honor killing, child marriages, domestic abuse and ill treatment of women.

I'm also wondering if you aren't broad brushing an entire culture with the behavior of SOME within that culture. We've had refugees from the Soviet Union, China, and Burma (now Myanmar) all of whom came from very repressive cultures and most of whom successfully assimilated here. India has a significant problem with rape, violence upon women, women disfigured by acid because their dowry was insufficient, and a low status for females in their culture (and that is amongst the Hindu) - yet, we have thriving Indian-American communities and as far as I know, crime rates are no higher. Yet - I am not hearing any outcry against bringing in people from India.

I don't agree that the cultures CREATE mental illness. But the cultures can HIDE mental illness, prevent it's treatment or abuse those who suffer from it..

Let me put it this way -- when you import folks from an insane asylum -- DO NOT expect them to be unafflicted or cured by the mere act of importing them. When you're raised in those cultures --- "erratic, violent, explosive, controlling" are FEATURES of their entire life experiences. From THEIR perspective -- that's "normal"..

Kinda like Iraq under Hussein or Libya under Ghadafy... OR Iran under the Ayatollahs -- or or or.

I see what you are saying, but I don't agree because you're essentially lumping all people of a culture into one category and labeling it "insane". "Erratic violent explosive and controlling" is not a cultural norm nor is it it conducive to long term survival of a culture. Cultures with a cultural mandate towards violence also mandate certain conditions and rules under which that violence can be expressed. That doesn't mean individuals within it don't go bonkers, but the culture as a whole won't survive if most of it's members acted that way.

We have a long history of taking in refugees from disfunctional cultures and war torn areas - and that has been largely successful. People that come, for the most part, are escaping sometihng horrible and appreciate the opportunities they have here and I have yet to see any indication that assimilation is less now, then it has been in the past.

 

[flacaltenn]

Hey Coyote -- I can fix your broken quote box above if you report it !!!!

The DIFF between taking refugees from China (actually TAIWAN) is easy. Because they are mostly Taiwanese.

Russia is a gamble because of the hatred there of Jews --- but we MOSTLY took the Jews. And the other Russians who KNEW about our culture and celebrated it.. Especially the ones DEPRIVED of their religion and culture.

But in the ME -- these cultures have been at each other for a 1000 years. Not knowing any norm than mono-cultures that the state creates and protects.

Four bombings in five days. TWO in Iraq, One in Saudi, One in Bangladesh. They KILL each other with no restraint. Not a war AGAINST Islam. It's a war against tribes and for complete domination and power... And it's not gonna stop UNTIL -- the right SOBs are back in charge.

It is NOT ISLAM (no matter how you misread my words), it's the life of living and learning only what you are given. By a dictator mad man. Who protects you from ALL Offense to your religious principles and harm from the hordes that want you dead..

If I were to say that --- "You'd be CRAZY to go live in Yemen or Somalia" --- Would that be just a cute phrase. Or is an actual psychological truth? I think it's the latter. CRAZY is what largely lives there.

The number of people in these countries, who are TRUE dissidents and "insurgents for moderation and tolerance" in these places are VERY VERY small numbers. They don't think twice about executing people in public for simple crimes. Or supporting a continuing war between Shiah and Sunni.. And they CERTAINLY (70 or 80% of them) are NOT candidates for free and open democratic societies.

 

[Coyote]

Hey Coyote -- I can fix your broken quote box above if you report it !!!!

The DIFF between taking refugees from China (actually TAIWAN) is easy. Because they are mostly Taiwanese.

Russia is a gamble because of the hatred there of Jews --- but we MOSTLY took the Jews. And the other Russians who KNEW about our culture and celebrated it.. Especially the ones DEPRIVED of their religion and culture.

But in the ME -- these cultures have been at each other for a 1000 years. Not knowing any norm than mono-cultures that the state creates and protects.

Four bombings in five days. TWO in Iraq, One in Saudi, One in Bangladesh. They KILL each other with no restraint. Not a war AGAINST Islam. It's a war against tribes and for complete domination and power... And it's not gonna stop UNTIL -- the right SOBs are back in charge.

We have ISIS - committing horrible massacres, ISIS is ISIS and they are clearly just as happy to kill Muslims as non-Muslims. The bombing in Ankara and Bangladesh both have been claimed by ISIS. Not sure about the others. And I'm not so sure ISIS is about tribalism. I heard one analyst describe them as an Apocolyptic Cult and that is the best descriptor for their actions that I've seen yet.

It is NOT ISLAM (no matter how you misread my words), it's the life of living and learning only what you are given. By a dictator mad man. Who protects you from ALL Offense to your religious principles and harm from the hordes that want you dead..

And yet - look at what happens when they immigrant to the US. The media, and YES - THE REGRESSIVE RIGHT (which no one seems to want to acknowledge) focus on only the bad actors. Look at the truly offensive "Mohammed Cartoon" contest that was done by Gellar and ilk in Texas. Now - before you beat me up on this - it is free speech, and just like the KKK can march in Selma and the Westboro Baptists can conduct their freakfest at funerals - this is a right and, I fully suppport it that right even if I'm offended by it's expression. Despite the fact that the intent of the contest was to offend a particular group (and, I can't recall any other sort of exhibition designed to offend a religious group) - the Muslim community in that area (and it was a substantial muslim IMMIGRANT community) - chose to ignore it. The one bad actor, had to come in from somewhere else. BUT - where is the attention focused? Not on the immigrant Muslim community who ignored it, but on the one person who did not. So here you have an entire immigrant community from diverse parts of the Muslim world, not acting violently. But no one pays attention. People from cultures that do not recognize human rights, basic freedoms we take for granted, religious tolerance come here and learn to accept them or maybe .... they always wanted them.

If I were to say that --- "You'd be CRAZY to go live in Yemen or Somalia" --- Would that be just a cute phrase. Or is an actual psychological truth? I think it's the latter. CRAZY is what largely lives there.

Somali, and Yemen are war torn countries...almost failed states. Add to that the Congo and CAIR. And Syria. Crazy is survival. Does that mean you turn your backs on those people?

The number of people in these countries, who are TRUE dissidents and "insurgents for moderation and tolerance" in these places are VERY VERY small numbers. They don't think twice about executing people in public for simple crimes. Or supporting a continuing war between Shiah and Sunni.. And they CERTAINLY (70 or 80% of them) are NOT candidates for free and open democratic societies.

In Somali?

We have Somali immigrant communities - and yes, we had ten youths found guilty of attempting to leave and join ISIS. Do you know who reported them and helped law enforcement? The Somali community.

Do you know what we had in the past?

We had Jewish anarchists.
We had Irish gangs.
We had the Italian Mafia.
After the break up of the USSR, we had and have the Russian and East European Mafioso.

So, does that mean we don't take in people of those nationalities?




Damn the quote functions - they mess me up all the time!

 

[flacaltenn]

If you can't come up with any other "free speech" exercise designed to offend or inflame a particular group, then you lose credibility points. Really?? You need these pointed out to you?

Jewish anarchists never participated in 43 different terrorists group designed to put the world under despotic rule and a perverted version of their religion,. NEVER HAD the juice to hit targets in Belgium, The US, and Turkey in the same month AND still have some left to kill Muslims in 4 other states. Neither did the Italian mafia or the Irish..

These 43 groups are NOT just ISIS and Al Queda. MANY of them are proxy armies for Arab states. Bought and paid for. In some cases -- to export the very kind of warped and tortured Islam that is fueling all of this..

You started this thread with a premise. And ALTHOUGH TRUE -- you neglected to see how it amplifies what I've said about these being "mentally ill" societies that these people come from..

The reason "WESTERN" mental health doesn't take hold with recent immigrants from these cultures is because it is CONTRARY to everything concept of "mental health" that they've ever experienced. Go out and read a bit about the CULTURAL challenge of bringing "western mental health" to the Arab world. In THEIR WORLD, "mental issues" are handled by religious healers largely. Ones that rely heavily on family and religion for their prescriptions. And besides the OCCASIONAL true case of schizophrenia or OCD that MIGHT get diagnosed and treated in the western way -- there is VIRTUALLY NO framework for diagnosing "dangerous or unstable persons" in those countries and cultures. That's because OUR DEFINITIONS of "dangerous and unstable" would apply to MOST EVERY AUTHORITY FIGURE that was in their lives in their home country. They LIVE in asylums. (by Western standards)

So rather than that being a excusatory explanation for their proclivities to convert to violence, it actually amplifies the cultural baggage that they arrive with. SOME will attempt to adjust. OTHERS will just fester and explode.

We should be doing a MUCH better job of evaluating their ability and enthusiasm for assimilating into Western culture BEFORE opening the gates like we are doing now.

Am I heartless??????? Hell no.. The West should have LED the charge 4 or 5 years ago now -- to create and protect safe areas THROUGHOUT the conflict zones. To stem the tide of MASS Migration encouraged by the EU and to some extent our government. It is THEIR FAILURE to do this -- that has forced this backlash.. And it is INEXCUSABLE to not point this out as one of the greatest humanitarian failures in decades...

 

[Zander]

Islam is a mental illness. Duh.....