Islam forbids

[Mr.Fitnah]

Now

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Perhaps you will be good enough to explain using Islamic scripture how it would be best if sharia law were not the law all around the world.
How it is best is man judge by man made laws and not "allahs "law.

Why would I want to do that? Islam is the ideal system for all people. True belief does not result from compulsion -- forced "conversions" will not produce an ideal Islamic society, they'll produce a society of munafiquun. People must choose to embrace Islam.

And obey Allah and obey the Messenger and be cautious. But if you turn back then know that the duty of Our Messenger is only a clear deliverance of the message. - 5:92​

91. Shaitân (Satan) wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allâh and from As-Salât (the prayer). So, will you not then abstain?

92. And obey Allâh and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and beware (of even coming near to drinking or gambling or Al Ansâb, or Al Azlâm, etc.) and fear Allâh. Then if you turn away, you should know that it is Our Messenger's duty to convey (the Message) in the clearest way.

WHAT IS THE MESSAGE?

8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir[/QUOTE]

 

[Kalam]

Your "arguments" are illogical from the beginning period.

Please prove that the argument is illogical.

The are unfounded and irrational

Please prove that the argument is unfounded and irrational.

We will no get involveled in disproving the illogic of lies or how they are irrational .

Your argument is contingent on the legitimacy of internal abrogation, and you refuse to disprove an argument that refutes abrogation. Your concession has been accepted; thank you.

 

[Kalam]

Now

Diaper rash acting up?

 

[Kalam]

WHAT IS THE MESSAGE?

8:39

Bid'ah-free:

And fight with them until there is no more persecution, and the religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Seer of what they do. (39-40)

...

And if they incline to peace, include thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Surely he is the Hearer, the Knower. (61)​

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Please prove that the argument is illogical.


Please prove that the argument is unfounded and irrational.

We will no get involveled in disproving the illogic of lies or how they are irrational .

Your argument is contingent on the legitimacy of internal abrogation, and you refuse to disprove an argument that refutes abrogation. Your concession has been accepted; thank you.

You just crazy as hell jack.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

WHAT IS THE MESSAGE?

8:39

Bid'ah-free:

And fight with them until there is no more persecution, and the religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Seer of what they do. (39-40)

...

And if they incline to peace, include thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Surely he is the Hearer, the Knower. (61)​

Get a better quran.

 

[Douger]

Islam forbids not giving your percentage of what you earn to them like every other brainwashing scam created by mankind.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

It has less intellectual weight than even my posts.

I can at least link to traditional recognized scholars to back up my opinion , you have to lean on untrusted sources.

"Untrusted sources."

Al-Suyuti
Shah Wali Ullah [1703-1762]
Abul Ala Maududi

Please, continue to spout ignorance. Continue to avoid addressing my argument. It only benefits me.

Al-Suyuti
Fight those who don't believe in God nor in the Last Day [Unless they believe in the Prophet God bless him and grant him peace] nor hold what is forbidden that which God and His emissary have forbidden [e.g. Wine] nor embrace the true faith [which is firm and abrogates other faiths, i.e., the Islamic religion] from among [for distinguishing] those who were given the Book [i.e., the Jews and Christians] until they give the head-tax [i.e., the annual taxes imposed on them] (l'an yadinl) humbly submissive, and obedient to Islam's rule.
Shah Wali Ullah
Shah Waliullah (1703-1762) was a great Muslim thinker of his time. Claiming his lineage from Quraysh tribe of Prophet Mohammad and the second Caliph Umar, he stressed upon the need of unity in Muslim community against the political rise of Marathas, Jats and Sikhs. Upset with the political disorder and fading glory of Muslim power he reminded the contemporary Muslim rulers of their holy duty of Jihad and raised the slogan that Islam is in danger. Although he was in agreement with his contemporary Mohammad Wahhab, his ideology was more a political strategy against the rising power of Hindus led by Marathas, Jats and Sikhs than against the Sufi-tomb worship and Shias. He supported the uncompromising Islamic thought of Wahhab for strict compliance of the custom and practices of the Prophet but he floated a theory of rational evaluation of Islam which was nothing but a sugar-coated version of Islamic fundamentalism. He is therefore known as a great Islamic strategist for the political power of Islam. At his invitation Ahmad Shah Durrani a ruling warlord of Afghanistan launched Jihad in Delhi in 1760 and defeated the Marathas in the third battle of Panipat. Highly regarded as a vibrant political Islamist among the Muslim community of South Asia, Shah Wali Ullah is also known as one of the ideological co-fathers of all the Islamist movements including Deoband, Aligarh, Muslim League, Jammaat-e-Ulema-e-Hind, Tabligh Jamaat, Jamaat-e-Islami and Taliban. Like Shah Wali Ullah who regarded the rise of the political power of Hindus a danger to Islam, Taliban is not only against the rise of Crusaders, Jews and the Hindus but also against the Muslim powers not following the custom and practices of the Prophet Era.

Abul Ala Maududi
Jamaat-e-Islami [1] (Urdu: جماعتِ اسلامی, Jamaat-i-Islami, "Islamic Block" Jamaat, JI) is an Islamist political party that was founded by Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi on 26 August 1941, in Lahore, in what is today Pakistan.[2] and is the oldest religious party in Pakistan.[2]

JI was a member of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA, United Council of Action, United Front), a coalition between religious-political parties in Pakistan. The MMA has denounced President Musharraf for "betraying" the Taliban and siding with the U.S. against them. They reject any attempts to settle the Kashmir dispute with India peacefully and support the Kashmir "Jihad". The MMA also denounces the presence of American troops and agencies in Pakistan. One of the allegation is that they support militant groups banned by the government.[8]

Maududi was arrested again in 1953 for his alleged role in the violent agitation against the Ahmadiyah sect. He was sentenced to death by a military court, but the sentence was commuted. In 1958 Pakistan came under military rule, and political parties, including the Jama'at-i Islami, were banned.

 

[Sunni Man]

Islam forbids not giving your percentage of what you earn to them like every other brainwashing scam created by mankind.

Actually, Islam is quite different in the aspect of giving.

In Islam the money you are mandated to give goes to people and not to the clergy or a building fund.

Basically, you personally find a family or individual who is in need and hand them some money. You are not forced to do this act of charity and are instructed to keep your gift a secret.

 

[PixieStix]

It has less intellectual weight than even my posts.

I can at least link to traditional recognized scholars to back up my opinion , you have to lean on untrusted sources.

"Untrusted sources."

Al-Suyuti
Shah Wali Ullah [1703-1762]
Abul Ala Maududi

Please, continue to spout ignorance. Continue to avoid addressing my argument. It only benefits me.

Al-Suyuti
Fight those who don't believe in God nor in the Last Day [Unless they believe in the Prophet God bless him and grant him peace] nor hold what is forbidden that which God and His emissary have forbidden [e.g. Wine] nor embrace the true faith [which is firm and abrogates other faiths, i.e., the Islamic religion] from among [for distinguishing] those who were given the Book [i.e., the Jews and Christians] until they give the head-tax [i.e., the annual taxes imposed on them] (l'an yadinl) humbly submissive, and obedient to Islam's rule.
Shah Wali Ullah
Shah Waliullah (1703-1762) was a great Muslim thinker of his time. Claiming his lineage from Quraysh tribe of Prophet Mohammad and the second Caliph Umar, he stressed upon the need of unity in Muslim community against the political rise of Marathas, Jats and Sikhs. Upset with the political disorder and fading glory of Muslim power he reminded the contemporary Muslim rulers of their holy duty of Jihad and raised the slogan that Islam is in danger. Although he was in agreement with his contemporary Mohammad Wahhab, his ideology was more a political strategy against the rising power of Hindus led by Marathas, Jats and Sikhs than against the Sufi-tomb worship and Shias. He supported the uncompromising Islamic thought of Wahhab for strict compliance of the custom and practices of the Prophet but he floated a theory of rational evaluation of Islam which was nothing but a sugar-coated version of Islamic fundamentalism. He is therefore known as a great Islamic strategist for the political power of Islam. At his invitation Ahmad Shah Durrani a ruling warlord of Afghanistan launched Jihad in Delhi in 1760 and defeated the Marathas in the third battle of Panipat. Highly regarded as a vibrant political Islamist among the Muslim community of South Asia, Shah Wali Ullah is also known as one of the ideological co-fathers of all the Islamist movements including Deoband, Aligarh, Muslim League, Jammaat-e-Ulema-e-Hind, Tabligh Jamaat, Jamaat-e-Islami and Taliban. Like Shah Wali Ullah who regarded the rise of the political power of Hindus a danger to Islam, Taliban is not only against the rise of Crusaders, Jews and the Hindus but also against the Muslim powers not following the custom and practices of the Prophet Era.

Abul Ala Maududi
Jamaat-e-Islami [1] (Urdu: جماعتِ اسلامی, Jamaat-i-Islami, "Islamic Block" Jamaat, JI) is an Islamist political party that was founded by Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi on 26 August 1941, in Lahore, in what is today Pakistan.[2] and is the oldest religious party in Pakistan.[2]

JI was a member of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA, United Council of Action, United Front), a coalition between religious-political parties in Pakistan. The MMA has denounced President Musharraf for "betraying" the Taliban and siding with the U.S. against them. They reject any attempts to settle the Kashmir dispute with India peacefully and support the Kashmir "Jihad". The MMA also denounces the presence of American troops and agencies in Pakistan. One of the allegation is that they support militant groups banned by the government.[8]

Maududi was arrested again in 1953 for his alleged role in the violent agitation against the Ahmadiyah sect. He was sentenced to death by a military court, but the sentence was commuted. In 1958 Pakistan came under military rule, and political parties, including the Jama'at-i Islami, were banned.

That is very odd that you posted this, I have been reading some of Abul Ala Maududi's writings all morning

http://www.quranenglish.com/books/Jihad%20in%20Islam.pdf


Maududi wrote over 120 books and pamphlets and made over a 1000 speeches and press statements. His magnum opus was the 30 years in progress translation tasfir in udu of the q'uran, Tafhim al-Qur’an (the meaning of the qu'ran), intended to give the Qur’an a practical contemporary interpretation. It became widely read throughout the subcontinent and has been translated into several languages

 

[Kalam]

We will no get involveled in disproving the illogic of lies or how they are irrational .

Your argument is contingent on the legitimacy of internal abrogation, and you refuse to disprove an argument that refutes abrogation. Your concession has been accepted; thank you.

You just crazy as hell jack.

You have not refuted my argument concerning abrogation. I will assume this is because you cannot. If my assumption is incorrect, there's only one way to prove me wrong. Until you actually address the argument, I'll let you talk to yourself.

 

[PixieStix]

English Quran Audio MP3 With Translation, The Meaning of Quran, English Hadith & Quranic or Islamic Lectures & Books, All Free Downloads - Quranenglish.com

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Your argument is contingent on the legitimacy of internal abrogation, and you refuse to disprove an argument that refutes abrogation. Your concession has been accepted; thank you.

You just crazy as hell jack.

You have not refuted my argument concerning abrogation. I will assume this is because you cannot. If my assumption is incorrect, there's only one way to prove me wrong. Until you actually address the argument, I'll let you talk to yourself.

You have no argument. Abrogation is a fact like the sky is blue, water is wet, women have secrets.
The sources you quote to support your contention that abrogation is false doctrine including Suyuti and Waliullah agree with me, not you.
Ulum al Qur'an - AL-NASIKH WA AL-MANSUKH- SunniPath Library - Books

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[Kalam]

Narrated Anas ibn Malik: The Prophet said, "Go in Allah's name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah's Apostle. Do not kill a decrepit old man, or a young infant, or a child, or a woman; do not be dishonest about spoils, but collect your earnings, do right, and act well, for Allah loves those who do good."

- Sunan Abu Dawud, Jihad, no. 2608



Narrated Rabah ibn Rabi': When we were with the Apostle of Allah on an expedition, he saw some people collected together over something and sent a man and said, "See, what are these people collected around?" He then came and said, "They are round a woman who has been killed." He said, "This is not one with whom fighting should have taken place." Khalid ibn al-Walid was in charge of the van, so he sent a man and said, "Tell Khalid not to kill a woman or a laborer."

- Sunan Abu Dawud, Jihad, no. 2663

~~~~~~~~~~~

"Concerning the saying of Allah, 'Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight you and do not trangress the limits. Indeed, Allaah does not love those who trangress': The killing of women and children is included within this, and so are those who are not involved in warfare."

- Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz, an-Nawadir wa az-Ziyadat, vol. III, p. 57



"The fact that someone disbelieves does not prevent us from being just to him, and our dealing with them (in a state of war) should only be restricted to fighting or capturing them if they deserve so. And it is not permissible for us to retaliate in the same manner, even if they kill our women and children and cause sorrow to befall us, it is not permissible for us to act likewise with the intention of making them feel grief and sorrow."

- Imam al-Qurtubi, Tafsir al-Qurtubi, commentary on v. 5:8



"...So it was allowed for the believers to fight in defending themselves and to retaliate against those who evicted them from their homes and prevented them from the tawheed of Allah and worship of Him, and women are not included from those who do this. Then, it was prescribed for them to fight absolutely, and this is explained in His saying, 'Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight you.' So those people who are nor people of combat are not permitted to be fought against.

....

The foundation is that the blood of Adam's progeny is sanctified and inviolable, and no one is killed except with right. Killing due to kufr is not something which the legislations have agreed upon at any one time of the shariah, such as killing the one who sits out of combat, for this is something that the legislations and intellect do not differ over. The blood of a disbeliever during the early history of Islam was sanctified and inviolable just like the original sanctity of a person. Allah prevented the Muslims from killing such a disbeliever."

- Ibn Taymiyyah, as-Sarim al-Masluul 'ala Shatim ar-Rasul, pp. 101-104



"Killing is only obligatory when facing warfare and armed combat -- not when facing kufr. For this reason, neither women are to be killed nor children, nor the elderly, nor the blind, nor those worshipers who do not fight; rather, we fight against those who fight us. This was the way of the Messenger of Allah in dealing with the people of the earth: he used to fight those who fought against him until they either entered into the deen, make an agreement or treaty with him, or came under his authority by paying the jizya. This is what he used to tell his armies if they fought against their enemies, as has preceded from the Hadith of Buraydah."

- Ibn Qayyim Al-Jawziyya, Ahkaam Ahl adh-Dhimma, vol. I, p. 17


Let us watch as the writings of these enormously influential Islamic scholars are dismissed with a string of pitiful one-liners or a lame cutn'paste.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Let us watch as the writings of these enormously influential Islamic scholars are dismissed with a string of pitiful one-liners or a lame cutn'paste.

You mean like something from the quran?
Yeah I can do that.

Many muslims like to say " Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please provide Islamic scripture to prove unequivocally non muslims are innocent.

 

[Kalam]

Actually, your response fell under the "string of pitiful one-liners" category. In light of that, I believe we are done here.