Isn't it a personal liberty to be who you want to be?

[frigidweirdo]

Well..... we're not talking about me.

We're talking about certain people in society who have not had civil rights.

Who? And what are said rights?

Well, the first right would be the right to equality under the law.

Be specific.

If I walk into a shop and I can be refused because someone has decided they don't like me for some reason, then this isn't equality under the law.

And yet the shop can be forced to perform work they choose not to perform. How is that not slavery?

If I can't have the same rights to inheritance of my partner, then this isn't equality under the law.

In that we agree.

A shop doesn't have to do anything. They could close their business down, that's not slavery.

Why should they have to close their business down for refusing to be slaves?

When you open a shop you agree to abide by the laws that govern shops. Your choice. A slave doesn't have a choice.

You agree to be a slave? Show me.

When someone becomes a government official, they have to abide by the laws governing the government. That's not slavery either. It's what they signed up for.

And yet they never do, unless it's to their advantage.

You're stuck on the slavery thing, aren't you?

As if a slave could suddenly say, hey, dudes, I'm shedding my black skin today and then I won't be a slave.

Slaves have NO CHOICE. Shop owners have a choice. They can choose to follow the laws, they can set up an internet business, they can have a private shop where customers only find out about it through word of mouth and so on. They have CHOICE therefore they AREN'T SLAVES.

Got it?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

You're stuck on the slavery thing, aren't you?

As if a slave could suddenly say, hey, dudes, I'm shedding my black skin today and then I won't be a slave.

Slaves have NO CHOICE. Shop owners have a choice. They can choose to follow the laws, they can set up an internet business, they can have a private shop where customers only find out about it through word of mouth and so on. They have CHOICE therefore they AREN'T SLAVES.

Got it?

What I got is that no one can open a business unless they agree to be slaves.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Isn't it a personal liberty to be who you want to be whether you're born a man wanting to be a woman or the other way around. Who are you to say as a conservative that individuals can't do so and use the government to stop them? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite?

The surgery isn't unconstitutional the last time I checked.
Being something other than what you were born as isn't unconstitutional.
Now stopping them and stumping on their individual liberties is probably unconstitutional!

If someone wants to be gay...Lets not stop them!
If someone wants to be the other gender and dress as such. Lets not stop them!
If they want to smoke pot! That is their personal liberty speaking...
Hell, if someone wants to go through life as a dragon that hisses like a snake in their own homes. Who are you to say no?

I thought most of you are libertarians. Wtf are you doing disagreeing with this?

Who's trying to stop them, dumbass? They can fuck whatever they like, or lop off any body part they care to.

Our problem is that WE want to retain OUR liberty to say that they're nuts, rather than being forced to pretend they aren't.

 

[Clementine]

It's not transgenders people are worried about and you'd know that if you could read. It's the perverts who will use the law to their advantage since it makes it easier to stalk victims. Real transgenders didn't need the law.

The best way to prevent poverty and hunger is to encourage self reliance. The left encourages government dependency, which keeps people down.

It's the solutions to climate change that are the real problem. It's nothing more than a massive redistribution of wealth, with most going to the dreaded 1%, that will have no impact whatsoever on global warming.

We shouldn't be funding Common Core. We need to get back to basics. Sadly, most of the money supposedly spent on education goes to shore up teacher's unions and so little ends up actually helping students. We don't need more funding but more oversight of the huge sums we spend now.

Healthcare has gotten more expensive, thanks to government intervention. People with an education tend to get better jobs with benefits. Thanks to the lib solution, most middle class jobs have disappeared because Obamacare put them out of business. So, nothing will improve because the left is destroying the means by which people raise themselves. The ladder of success now has few rungs in the middle, so most people are stuck at the bottom. That is the left's answer to poverty? You must be a special kind of stupid.

 

[Cecilie1200]

They can be whatever they want. Just don't demand everyone else go along with the delusiom.

They deserve just as much legal protection as everyone else. That is part of the personal liberty as one shouldn't be able to abuse another.

Yeah, no. I have no "legal protections" forcing the general public to play into my delusions - should I develop any - and it's insane to think that freedom consists of "90% of the country shut up and toe the line so that 10% can feel mainstreamed!" Or in the case of transexuals, 99.7% and .3%.

There's no "abuse" involved in not being agreed with and approved of, and you should be ashamed of yourself for cheapening the word "abuse" to "He ignored my pretty dress and makeup and said I was a MAN!"

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Who's trying to stop them, dumbass? They can fuck whatever they like, or lop off any body part they care to.

Our problem is that WE want to retain OUR liberty to say that they're nuts, rather than being forced to pretend they aren't.

You can say they are nuts all you want...you can make a sign and stand anywhere denouncing the LGTB community...its the getting the Government to enforce your antagonism that is wrong...

 

[Cecilie1200]

Isn't it a personal liberty to be who you want to be whether you're born a man wanting to be a woman or the other way around. Who are you to say as a conservative that individuals can't do so and use the government to stop them? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite?

The surgery isn't unconstitutional the last time I checked.
Being something other than what you were born as isn't unconstitutional.
Now stopping them and stumping on their individual liberties is probably unconstitutional!

If someone wants to be gay...Lets not stop them!
If someone wants to be the other gender and dress as such. Lets not stop them!
If they want to smoke pot! That is their personal liberty speaking...
Hell, if someone wants to go through life as a dragon that hisses like a snake in their own homes. Who are you to say no?

I thought most of you are libertarians. Wtf are you doing disagreeing with this?

What about nudist, do you want to keep using government to stop them from being them?

Let me just say, why is it ALWAYS the people you most want NOT to see naked who decide to become nudists?

 

[Cecilie1200]

They can be whatever they want. Just don't demand everyone else go along with the delusiom.

They deserve just as much legal protection as everyone else. That is part of the personal liberty as one shouldn't be able to abuse another.

Surely, forcing someone else to play along with that which he can clearly see to be untrue, insane, and/or evil, is an abuse of that person, is it not?

And surely, any rational concept of “personal liberty” must include the freedom to not have anything to do with that which one can see to be untrue, insane, or evil.

With that being said, stop choosing to have something to do with it. What gay person asked for your involvement or opinion? You can't help but force your views on society in the way that you've outlined above. I can't recall a time i ever felt abused as a passer by of a gay person, because I don't care. You care because you choose to, so you invite the so called abuse.

Chuckles, every time you tweekos flit into the courts and demand that people pretend to approve of homosexual behavior for fear of being driven into bankruptcy, you're not just asking for involvement: you're DEMANDING it at the point of a gun.

You want to know about being abused by gay people? Go ask the bakers who were just minding their own business - literally - when they got targeted by a pair of lesbians who decided to celebrate their "wedding" by creating public outrage.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Healthcare has gotten more expensive, thanks to government intervention. People with an education tend to get better jobs with benefits. Thanks to the lib solution, most middle class jobs have disappeared because Obamacare put them out of business. So, nothing will improve because the left is destroying the means by which people raise themselves. The ladder of success now has few rungs in the middle, so most people are stuck at the bottom. That is the left's answer to poverty? You must be a special kind of stupid.

I am special however I am in no way stupid.......I sometimes do indulge in folly however that is different...

No healthcare has not become more expensive due to Government intervention ...No most middle class jobs did not disappear because of Obamacare...no ma'am the "left" did not destroy the means by which people raise themselves. Those are manifestations of a process begun in the Ronald Reagan era to

1) destroy the public sector
2) repeal the new deal
3) destroy labor unions
4) concentrate wealth among less than 1 percent of the population

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Let me just say, why is it ALWAYS the people you most want NOT to see naked who decide to become nudists?

How someone looks makes absolutely no difference to a mosquito...

 

[OKTexas]

Isn't it a personal liberty to be who you want to be whether you're born a man wanting to be a woman or the other way around. Who are you to say as a conservative that individuals can't do so and use the government to stop them? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite?

The surgery isn't unconstitutional the last time I checked.
Being something other than what you were born as isn't unconstitutional.
Now stopping them and stumping on their individual liberties is probably unconstitutional!

If someone wants to be gay...Lets not stop them!
If someone wants to be the other gender and dress as such. Lets not stop them!
If they want to smoke pot! That is their personal liberty speaking...
Hell, if someone wants to go through life as a dragon that hisses like a snake in their own homes. Who are you to say no?

I thought most of you are libertarians. Wtf are you doing disagreeing with this?

What about nudist, do you want to keep using government to stop them from being them?

Let me just say, why is it ALWAYS the people you most want NOT to see naked who decide to become nudists?

I think you're making an assumption based on bias, I've seen photos of every age, race and body type, in other words, regular people. My point was to show matts hypocrisy and if you noticed he hasn't responded. I've actually asked similar questions to others on this forum, so far they've all ignored it, because every argument they use to support gays could be used to support nudist, but they won't go there. Proving just how hypocritical they are.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You're stuck on the slavery thing, aren't you?

As if a slave could suddenly say, hey, dudes, I'm shedding my black skin today and then I won't be a slave.

Slaves have NO CHOICE. Shop owners have a choice. They can choose to follow the laws, they can set up an internet business, they can have a private shop where customers only find out about it through word of mouth and so on. They have CHOICE therefore they AREN'T SLAVES.

Got it?

What I got is that no one can open a business unless they agree to be slaves.

And what I got is you don't understand slavery.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Isn't it a personal liberty to be who you want to be whether you're born a man wanting to be a woman or the other way around. Who are you to say as a conservative that individuals can't do so and use the government to stop them? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite?

The surgery isn't unconstitutional the last time I checked.
Being something other than what you were born as isn't unconstitutional.
Now stopping them and stumping on their individual liberties is probably unconstitutional!

If someone wants to be gay...Lets not stop them!
If someone wants to be the other gender and dress as such. Lets not stop them!
If they want to smoke pot! That is their personal liberty speaking...
Hell, if someone wants to go through life as a dragon that hisses like a snake in their own homes. Who are you to say no?

I thought most of you are libertarians. Wtf are you doing disagreeing with this?

What about nudist, do you want to keep using government to stop them from being them?

Let me just say, why is it ALWAYS the people you most want NOT to see naked who decide to become nudists?

I think you're making an assumption based on bias, I've seen photos of every age, race and body type, in other words, regular people. My point was to show matts hypocrisy and if you noticed he hasn't responded. I've actually asked similar questions to others on this forum, so far they've all ignored it, because every argument they use to support gays could be used to support nudist, but they won't go there. Proving just how hypocritical they are.

Yes, thank you for driving a bit of lighthearted humor into the ground, Captain Downer.

 

[OKTexas]

Isn't it a personal liberty to be who you want to be whether you're born a man wanting to be a woman or the other way around. Who are you to say as a conservative that individuals can't do so and use the government to stop them? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite?

The surgery isn't unconstitutional the last time I checked.
Being something other than what you were born as isn't unconstitutional.
Now stopping them and stumping on their individual liberties is probably unconstitutional!

If someone wants to be gay...Lets not stop them!
If someone wants to be the other gender and dress as such. Lets not stop them!
If they want to smoke pot! That is their personal liberty speaking...
Hell, if someone wants to go through life as a dragon that hisses like a snake in their own homes. Who are you to say no?

I thought most of you are libertarians. Wtf are you doing disagreeing with this?

What about nudist, do you want to keep using government to stop them from being them?

Let me just say, why is it ALWAYS the people you most want NOT to see naked who decide to become nudists?

I think you're making an assumption based on bias, I've seen photos of every age, race and body type, in other words, regular people. My point was to show matts hypocrisy and if you noticed he hasn't responded. I've actually asked similar questions to others on this forum, so far they've all ignored it, because every argument they use to support gays could be used to support nudist, but they won't go there. Proving just how hypocritical they are.

Yes, thank you for driving a bit of lighthearted humor into the ground, Captain Downer.

Sorry bout dat. BTW I noticed you didn't go there either.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

the Freedom to pee is a basic liberty

 

[Bob Blaylock]

What civil rights don't you [frigidweirdo] enjoy?

In most places, he still doesn't enjoy the civil right to go into restrooms, locker rooms, and such designated for the opposite sex.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

A shop doesn't have to do anything. They could close their business down, that's not slavery.

When you open a shop you agree to abide by the laws that govern shops.

The Constitution is the highest law in this nation, and the First Amendment, which is part of the Constitution, very strongly implies freedoms of conscience and association, as part of the explicitly-affirmed freedoms of expression, religion, and assembly. And nothing anywhere in the Constitution supports the view that one may be compelled to waive any of his rights therein as a condition of being allowed to make an honest living by running a business.

I find it amusing, in a sad way, when wrong-wingers speak of the rule of law, and speak of an obligation to obey the law, in defense of policies which blatantly violate this highest law.

Public servants—including legislators, executives, judges, law enforcement officers,and such—swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. They agree to this, as a condition of being allowed to hold their jobs. Why are you not so concerned about holding them to obedience to the law, which they swore to uphold?

 

[frigidweirdo]

A shop doesn't have to do anything. They could close their business down, that's not slavery.

When you open a shop you agree to abide by the laws that govern shops.

The Constitution is the highest law in this nation, and the First Amendment, which is part of the Constitution, very strongly implies freedoms of conscience and association, as part of the explicitly-affirmed freedoms of expression, religion, and assembly. And nothing anywhere in the Constitution supports the view that one may be compelled to waive any of his rights therein as a condition of being allowed to make an honest living by running a business.

I find it amusing, in a sad way, when wrong-wingers speak of the rule of law, and speak of an obligation to obey the law, in defense of policies which blatantly violate this highest law.

Public servants—including legislators, executives, judges, law enforcement officers,and such—swear an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. They agree to this, as a condition of being allowed to hold their jobs. Why are you not so concerned about holding them to obedience to the law, which they swore to uphold?

You're picking and choosing.

The theory of Human Rights says you can do anything as long as you're not harming or hurting others.

You can have freedom of expression, but there are limits. You can have freedom of religion, but there are limits. You can have freedom to protest, but there are limits.

You're implying that these are limitless, that you can say whatever you like whenever you like and no one can stop you. You'd be wrong.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What civil rights don't you [frigidweirdo] enjoy?

In most places, he still doesn't enjoy the civil right to go into restrooms, locker rooms, and such designated for the opposite sex.

Because it's not a right.

There are limits, and we consider that it would harm people to go into such places.

 

[The Great Goose]

Well they didn't change yet. That's the reason for the need to keep on fighting against it. Put Target out of business and set an example.

If a person is a true transgender, they will look like the sex they identify with long before the surgery. And they prefer to blend. A regular looking guy is full of shit if he claims to be a woman. Transgenders usually dress nicely, do their hair and makeup and try to look like a woman as best they can. If you see a guy in a dress with hairy legs and face and no makeup, you should run from him because he's just trying to take advantage of the situation.

There's a reason many weren't sure if they saw a transgender or not. They are probably better at hair and makeup than most and the goal was not to stand out from others of the same sex they identify with.

It's bullshit to allow a grown man into the ladies room when he's dressed like a guy. That is the part people are strongly objecting to and the left just doesn't get it.

Of course, now we have guys who look rugged and they claim to be lesbian women. This is the new liberal utopia, where even mental illness and perversion will be forced on society as the new norm.

We've already had men undressing in locker rooms in front of young people, guys taking cameras into bathrooms and locker rooms to get some footage to put on the internet and sleaze balls who just like peeking. It's a matter of time before attacks occur and the left still won't budge. They will continue to cater to the rapists, the perverted and the total scum and lump them in with the LGBT group. The people currently lumped together in that group should be really pissed.

All the new laws do is give a green light to creeps who want to expose themselves to children or worse. As I said, we should have left things as they were. The transgenders already had it figured out without being singled out by the left and used to make laws that they knew would upset anyone with a modicum of intelligence or decency. They did it just to invent another reason to cry about intolerance. Well, I have zero tolerance for sex offenders and I bet the LGBT group does, too.

Thank you.