Israel's Legal Right To Exist

[Phoenall]

So cant come back and claim they were robbed, they were offered the chance and refused so giving up the chance at a later date.

They were offered the chance to allow foreigners to colonize their country?

Such a deal!

When was it ever their country as the Ottomans and LoN never granted them any sovereignty. Every other part of the Ottoman empire was named as a nation by 1923, but Palestine which was partitioned into trans Jordan and the Jewish national home. Could this be because the LoN knew that the arab muslims were mostly foreigners to the land and so had no legal rights to any lands.

 

[Phoenall]

montelatici, et al,

In the Discussion Thread Topic --- The Palestinian National Identity as it is: no lies, propaganda and hidden agendas allowed, I posted a number of examples that question the integrity and validity of this statement. You will find a half dozen of examples of opportunities (all before the 1948 War) that Arab Palestinians rejected. Most of the time it was rejected simply because they did not get everything they wanted, the way they wanted it, when they demanded it. See Posting #41...

I don't want to waste anyone's time or bandwidth trying to republish that which has already been said.

View attachment 103671
​

The Arab Palestinians have been blocked from creating self-governing institutions since the British conquered Palestine, first by the British, and now by the Israelis. Military occupation prevents civil self-governance, that's just a fact.

(COMMENT)

In the two decades that passed after the transition from the Enemy Occupied Territory Administration to the British Civil Administration, the Arab Palestinians (in various forms) --- demanding this and rejected that --- availed themselves of the integration into the government administration.

Like a stubborn child, it was Arab Palestinian wanted it: "my way or the highway." You can see how well that is working for them. Now they just whine about all the successive setbacks they have in their campaign by terror and fear.

Most Respectfully,
R

If you mean that they have consistently rejected an agreement that would put them permanently under Jew sovreignty with no chance of true independence ever, you would be right. Israel is behaving like the bullying child.

LIAR it is the arab muslims doing this because they have lost everything through their own stupidity. They could have had a major role in the making of Jordan and instead decided they wanted it all. Same with Lebanon and Egypt when they tried to take those lands from their legal owners.

Would you like to be under hamas or fatah sovereignty in light of what you know from the evidence available, because no sane person would. Only an islamonazi propaganda stooge would keep going of topic and using South Africa on this board to silence the truth

 

[Phoenall]

the British found themselves entangled in a cultural dilemma; and an unsolvable political problem.

Unsolvable? It was their stupid program. They knew their stupid program could not work but refused to address it. It was only unsolvable because they were stupid. The solution was presented to them many times.

So they started a hundred year (and counting) war then cut and ran.

And only an insane person would accept the whole of the M.E. becoming an Islamic caliphate and being ran by mad mullah's and extremist muslims like Daesh. It was the extremist muslims that started the war before the British even set foot in Palestine, and you are scared to admit it because it means you are supporting the losing side.

 

[Phoenall]

And, the UN knew full well that the plan was actually unworkable. In effect, adding the Bedouins (the real Arabians) non-Jews were a majority in the Jewish part of the partition. How could have a plan where a minority from overseas was to rule over a majority possibly work?

"The Arab State will organize the substantial majority of Arabs in Palestine into a political body containing an insignificant minority of Jews; but in the Jewish State there will be a considerable minority of Arabs. That is the demerit of the scheme. "

Jews Arabs and others total
The Jewish State 498,000 407,000 905,000
The Arab State 10,000 725,000 735,000
City of Jerusalem 100,000 105,000 205,000

In addition there will be in the Jewish State about 90,000 Bedouins..."

A/364 of 3 September 1947

Because the arab muslims that were granted trans Jordan came up with the solution. No Jews in the arab partition and no arab's in the Jewish partition. A payment plan was worked out that gave the arab muslims a medium sized sum of money to buy new lands and to build a home with. The Jews left trans Jordan and set up home in the Jewish national home, the arab muslims flooded into the Jewish national home as well contrary to the amendment they had made to international law.




Still touting this as the Anglo-American commission when it is clearly UNSCOP, once again showing that you are a proven LIAR and should be given a last warning

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think this is a set of views held by many Pro-Palestinians; but not actually true.

the British found themselves entangled in a cultural dilemma; and an unsolvable political problem.

Unsolvable? It was their stupid program. They knew their stupid program could not work but refused to address it. It was only unsolvable because they were stupid. The solution was presented to them many times.

(COMMENT)

There is NO SOLUTION presented that whereby:

• The Enemy Arab Palestinian Population are given a sovereignty over all the territory west of the Jordan River.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- AND --------------------------------------------------------------------------
• The Jewish People are given a territory in the ancient homeland of protection and security then -- and --- into the future.
​

In hindsight (the Monday Morning Quarterback temptation), there were probably ways to avoid the discontent and still protect and preserve the culture. But the solutions can be applied once the window of opportunity closes.

So they started a hundred year (and counting) war then cut and ran.

(COMMENT)

Well, there were multiple contributing factors and the assignment of blame cannot rest on anyone's particular shoulder. BUT, surely the preponderance of the turmoil rests with the Arab Palestinians who demanded something for nothing is where the weight should lay.

The Arab Palestinians of today, would be in a much more influential, economically prosperous and developmentally beneficial position if they had NOT been so confrontational at the turn of the century.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Well, there were multiple contributing factors and the assignment of blame cannot rest on anyone's particular shoulder.

Oh really. Without Britain's stupid policy there would be no war. Period.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Arab Palestinians of today, would be in a much more influential, economically prosperous and developmentally beneficial position if they had NOT been so confrontational at the turn of the century.

And every Palestinian in the world would be a refugee.

I don't see that as a benefit.

 

[Hollie]

Well, there were multiple contributing factors and the assignment of blame cannot rest on anyone's particular shoulder.

Oh really. Without Britain's stupid policy there would be no war. Period.

There was nothing stupid about a Jewish homeland in an area with thousands of years of Jewish heritage. You could call it naive to expect Arab-Moslem accommodation given Islamist ideology and its insensate Jew hatreds but the world doesn't operate on placating the demands of Islamic fascists.

 

[Hollie]

The Arab Palestinians of today, would be in a much more influential, economically prosperous and developmentally beneficial position if they had NOT been so confrontational at the turn of the century.

And every Palestinian in the world would be a refugee.

I don't see that as a benefit.

That's just nonsense. It was Arab-Moslem intransigence and politico-religious fascism that got in the way of their making decisions that would have allowed them the opportunity for self-governance and sovereignty.

But, as we know, self-governance and fulfillment of stable societies are not attributes that define Islamism.

 

[Phoenall]

Well, there were multiple contributing factors and the assignment of blame cannot rest on anyone's particular shoulder.

Oh really. Without Britain's stupid policy there would be no war. Period.

WRONG as the war had been raging for 1400 years prior to this

 

[Phoenall]

The Arab Palestinians of today, would be in a much more influential, economically prosperous and developmentally beneficial position if they had NOT been so confrontational at the turn of the century.

And every Palestinian in the world would be a refugee.

I don't see that as a benefit.

INCLUDING THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS THAT LIVED THERE BEFORE THE MAJORITY OF ARAB MUSLIMS INVADED AFTER 1917 ?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, it depends on the clarity of vision one has on causal effects and ramifications.

Well, there were multiple contributing factors and the assignment of blame cannot rest on anyone's particular shoulder.

Oh really. Without Britain's stupid policy there would be no war. Period.

(COMMENT)

The Jewish Community (World-Wide) came to understand that they would not be safe anywhere but in a domain to which they were not the minority --- and --- being totally dependent on the rule of the majority to which there was no justice. The Dreyfus Affair (1894) made it absolutely clear that the mob mentality of anti-Semitism ruled and Jews were expendable. And while the educated elite did not want to recognize it and agree, they knew deep down it was true. Both the non-Jewish Ruling Elite (to their shame) and the Jewish People came to realize that Jewish People (everywhere) would not be safe from arbitrary antisemitism under the color of law, unless the Jewish People had their own country. While the French government, with the shame of the Dreyfus Affair still fresh, even with a 1906 civilian court that overturned the conviction, the French Army did not renounce the conviction until 1995 --- a century later. This, coincidentally, was about the time of the Oslo Accords.

When the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic - surrendered, it was to the Allied Powers...

• The Armistice of Mudros, which was concluded on 30 October 1918; Clause 16 --- Surrender of all garrisons in Hejaz, Assir, Yemen, Syria, and Mesopotamia to the nearest Allied commander; and the withdrawal of troops from Cilicia, except those necessary to maintain order, as will be determined under Clause 5.
• The Treaty of Sevres, which was concluded on 10 August 1920; Article 132 --- Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.
• The Treaty of Lausanne, which was concluded 24 July 1924 (into force between the High Contracting Parties who have thus ratified it), Article I6 --- Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
​

IT WAS NOT BRITAN's MISTAKE ALONE. If indeed there was a mistake made.

There is no mistake. The intention was replicated three times, in three different instruments. Britain's Policy not withstanding, the San Remo Agreement between post-World War I Allied Powers was adopted on April 25, 1920 during the San Remo Conference. The Mandate for Palestine was based on this resolution; it incorporated the 1917 Balfour Declaration and the Covenant of the League of Nation's Article 22. Britain was charged with establishing a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine (territorial boundaries were not decided until four years after).

The emphasis is on the fact that the ALLIED POWERS agreed, as a collectively body, that it was in the best interest of the world community and humanity that some portion of the captured territory be allotted to the establishment of the Jewish National Home; under the legal authority of the Allied Powers as exercising customary law for territory that the Allied Powers have the Title and Right.

With all Muslim and Christian countries in the world, who would begrudge the Jewish People a sliver of territory to establish their enclave? (RHETORICAL) Only the Arabs.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MJB12741]

Well, there were multiple contributing factors and the assignment of blame cannot rest on anyone's particular shoulder.

Oh really. Without Britain's stupid policy there would be no war. Period.

There was nothing stupid about a Jewish homeland in an area with thousands of years of Jewish heritage. You could call it naive to expect Arab-Moslem accommodation given Islamist ideology and its insensate Jew hatreds but the world doesn't operate on placating the demands of Islamic fascists.

Israel has already placated far too many Palestinian demands. Look what Israel got for a thank you for granting the Palestinian demand for a Jew free Gaza. Enough of this damn Zionist agenda of placating Palestinian demands. Treat them like their own Arab brothers do & LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, this is really a tear jerker! I'm tearing up with sympathy.

The Arab Palestinians of today, would be in a much more influential, economically prosperous and developmentally beneficial position if they had NOT been so confrontational at the turn of the century.

And every Palestinian in the world would be a refugee.

I don't see that as a benefit.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians love to use that word "refugee." As if they understand what a real refugee is.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

So cant come back and claim they were robbed, they were offered the chance and refused so giving up the chance at a later date.

They were offered the chance to allow foreigners to colonize their country?

Such a deal!

When was it ever their country as the Ottomans and LoN never granted them any sovereignty. Every other part of the Ottoman empire was named as a nation by 1923, but Palestine which was partitioned into trans Jordan and the Jewish national home. Could this be because the LoN knew that the arab muslims were mostly foreigners to the land and so had no legal rights to any lands.

I need these for your post.

 

[montelatici]

The British wrote the Balfour Declaration, which ipso facto doomed the native Muslims and Christians of Palestine. The framers intended to transfer a large number of Europeans to Palestine who were to rule over the native people in a colonial project. The framers had no intention of safeguarding the civil rights of the native people, regardless of what was stated.

 

[montelatici]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, this is really a tear jerker! I'm tearing up with sympathy.

The Arab Palestinians of today, would be in a much more influential, economically prosperous and developmentally beneficial position if they had NOT been so confrontational at the turn of the century.

And every Palestinian in the world would be a refugee.

I don't see that as a benefit.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians love to use that word "refugee." As if they understand what a real refugee is.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco loves to spout bullshit. What is a refugee Rocco? Why are Palestinians not refugees? The UN established the criteria for Palestinian refugees as a result of the UN's complicity in facilitating the eviction and dispossession of the native Muslims and Christians of Palestine. Everyone involved in the crime knew they were screwing the native people.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, it depends on the clarity of vision one has on causal effects and ramifications.

Well, there were multiple contributing factors and the assignment of blame cannot rest on anyone's particular shoulder.

Oh really. Without Britain's stupid policy there would be no war. Period.

(COMMENT)

The Jewish Community (World-Wide) came to understand that they would not be safe anywhere but in a domain to which they were not the minority --- and --- being totally dependent on the rule of the majority to which there was no justice. The Dreyfus Affair (1894) made it absolutely clear that the mob mentality of anti-Semitism ruled and Jews were expendable. And while the educated elite did not want to recognize it and agree, they knew deep down it was true. Both the non-Jewish Ruling Elite (to their shame) and the Jewish People came to realize that Jewish People (everywhere) would not be safe from arbitrary antisemitism under the color of law, unless the Jewish People had their own country. While the French government, with the shame of the Dreyfus Affair still fresh, even with a 1906 civilian court that overturned the conviction, the French Army did not renounce the conviction until 1995 --- a century later. This, coincidentally, was about the time of the Oslo Accords.

When the Ottoman Empire/Turkish Republic - surrendered, it was to the Allied Powers...

• The Armistice of Mudros, which was concluded on 30 October 1918; Clause 16 --- Surrender of all garrisons in Hejaz, Assir, Yemen, Syria, and Mesopotamia to the nearest Allied commander; and the withdrawal of troops from Cilicia, except those necessary to maintain order, as will be determined under Clause 5.
• The Treaty of Sevres, which was concluded on 10 August 1920; Article 132 --- Outside her frontiers as fixed by the present Treaty Turkey hereby renounces in favour of the Principal Allied Powers all rights and title which she could claim on any ground over or concerning any territories outside Europe which are not otherwise disposed of by the present Treaty.
• The Treaty of Lausanne, which was concluded 24 July 1924 (into force between the High Contracting Parties who have thus ratified it), Article I6 --- Turkey hereby renounces all rights and title whatsoever over or respecting the territories situated outside the frontiers laid down in the present Treaty and the islands other than those over which her sovereignty is recognised by the said Treaty, the future of these territories and islands being settled or to be settled by the parties concerned.
​

IT WAS NOT BRITAN's MISTAKE ALONE. If indeed there was a mistake made.

There is no mistake. The intention was replicated three times, in three different instruments. Britain's Policy not withstanding, the San Remo Agreement between post-World War I Allied Powers was adopted on April 25, 1920 during the San Remo Conference. The Mandate for Palestine was based on this resolution; it incorporated the 1917 Balfour Declaration and the Covenant of the League of Nation's Article 22. Britain was charged with establishing a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine (territorial boundaries were not decided until four years after).

The emphasis is on the fact that the ALLIED POWERS agreed, as a collectively body, that it was in the best interest of the world community and humanity that some portion of the captured territory be allotted to the establishment of the Jewish National Home; under the legal authority of the Allied Powers as exercising customary law for territory that the Allied Powers have the Title and Right.

With all Muslim and Christian countries in the world, who would begrudge the Jewish People a sliver of territory to establish their enclave? (RHETORICAL) Only the Arabs.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, Britain and the Zionists worked together to pull off this heist.

Without that there would not be war.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The British wrote the Balfour Declaration, which ipso facto doomed the native Muslims and Christians of Palestine. The framers intended to transfer a large number of Europeans to Palestine who were to rule over the native people in a colonial project. The framers had no intention of safeguarding the civil rights of the native people, regardless of what was stated.

Indeed, the British had never given a rat's ass about any of the native it had been screwing over the last few centuries.

It was just SOP.

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Well, this is really a tear jerker! I'm tearing up with sympathy.

The Arab Palestinians of today, would be in a much more influential, economically prosperous and developmentally beneficial position if they had NOT been so confrontational at the turn of the century.

And every Palestinian in the world would be a refugee.

I don't see that as a benefit.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians love to use that word "refugee." As if they understand what a real refugee is.

Most Respectfully,
R

Do you think, Rocco, that any Arab has ever given thought to the millions of European refugees as a result of World War II. If it ever comes into their minds, I wonder if they think of the children and grandchildren of these people as being refugees too.