Issue 1 in Ohio

[hadit]

I wouldn't say fast, I would say driving in general.

Are most fatal accidents highway accidents or local road idiots?

I was thinking along the lines of making it impossible for any motor vehicle to exceed 30 or 35 mph. At that speed, with seatbelts properly worn, nearly every crash would be survivable, even head on ones.

 

[Dadoalex]

You haven't shown shit. a fetus is a human being, just in-utero.

If it isn't a human being, what is it? a chicken?

It's a zygote, an embryo, a fetus, but not a human being.

You can lie about what's been posted but you lie only to you.

 

[Dadoalex]

No, you haven't shown anything. You've repeated yourself but quoted no biology textbook that says an unborn human is not human. In fact, when you DID try quoting a source, I quickly showed you where it specifically said there were human fetii growing in those women's bodies. You know, you still haven't told us from your hospital bed how it went when you told that pregnant woman she didn't have a human being inside her.

Nor have you specified what exactly you think is growing in that woman's uterus, whether it's a zebra or a yeti.

Asked and answered a dozen times or more.
Understood you need to lie about it because one you take away your lies all you have left is your "morality."

And let's face it, YOUR morality is nothing upon which to stand.

 

[martybegan]

I was thinking along the lines of making it impossible for any motor vehicle to exceed 30 or 35 mph. At that speed, with seatbelts properly worn, nearly every crash would be survivable, even head on ones.

And people would die of frustration due to any trip outside your city taking days instead of hours.

 

[martybegan]

Asked and answered a dozen times or more.
Understood you need to lie about it because one you take away your lies all you have left is your "morality."

And let's face it, YOUR morality is nothing upon which to stand.

Morality is about killing the human being, biology is about it being a human being.

 

[hadit]

Asked and answered a dozen times or more.
Understood you need to lie about it because one you take away your lies all you have left is your "morality."

And let's face it, YOUR morality is nothing upon which to stand.

The unborn human fetus is an unborn human being, it's that simple. They're not another animal, they are human. They are not nothing, they are human. You can't deny that.

 

[hadit]

And people would die of frustration due to any trip outside your city taking days instead of hours.

Yes, they would. Of course, before the 20th century, people traveled at an average velocity of about 7 mph and would have swooned with happiness to move around at 35mph. Give it a generation or two, and it would become normal.

 

[Dadoalex]

Morality is about killing the human being, biology is about it being a human being.

No human beings killed.
Ergo, you are lying.
and you called the fetus "it"
therefore
You don't even believe your own lies.

 

[Dadoalex]

The unborn human fetus is an unborn human being, it's that simple. They're not another animal, they are human. They are not nothing, they are human. You can't deny that.

Not a human being.
Factually demonstrated may of times here.
Therefore there's nothing for me to deny.

 

[hadit]

Not a human being.
Factually demonstrated may of times here.
Therefore there's nothing for me to deny.

As your logic has been shown to be a fallacy, completely a human being before birth. You won't even admit that there's a human fetus in there.

 

[Dadoalex]

As your logic has been shown to be a fallacy, completely a human being before birth. You won't even admit that there's a human fetus in there.

A human fetus is not a human being.
It is a parasite existing in the body of its host.
As with any parasite the host has the right to remove the parasite.

 

[martybegan]

Yes, they would. Of course, before the 20th century, people traveled at an average velocity of about 7 mph and would have swooned with happiness to move around at 35mph. Give it a generation or two, and it would become normal.

Nope, sorry, vehicles can be safely operated up to 75MPH in the proper settings.

 

[martybegan]

No human beings killed.
Ergo, you are lying.
and you called the fetus "it"
therefore
You don't even believe your own lies.

Yes, human being killed.

Considering I don't know the sex of each fetus, it works.

 

[hadit]

Nope, sorry, vehicles can be safely operated up to 75MPH in the proper settings.

Oh, absolutely, they can. My point is survivability in the event of a crash. Going off the road and hitting a tree at 30 mph is a lot more survivable than at 75.

 

[martybegan]

Oh, absolutely, they can. My point is survivability in the event of a crash. Going off the road and hitting a tree at 30 mph is a lot more survivable than at 75.

True, but that still doesn't mean forcing everyone to do it is a good idea.

 

[hadit]

A human fetus is not a human being.

It's certainly not a zebra or a yeti. Find me a biology textbook that says an unborn human is not a human.

It is a parasite existing in the body of its host.
As with any parasite the host has the right to remove the parasite.

That "parasite" remains a parasite, completely unable to take care of itself until several years after birth. Why do you want to prosecute a mother for murder if she casually drops her 6-month-old baby in a trash compactor?

See, your arguments are completely arbitrary and not based in science or objective measures. An unborn human is just that, a human. Once you admit that, we can have a discussion about the value we as society place on that human. Obviously, you place no value on unborn human life at all and should not be entrusted with the care of a pregnant woman.

 

[hadit]

True, but that still doesn't mean forcing everyone to do it is a good idea.

It's not, but it makes the point that society places value on human life all the time, and we are willing to sacrifice those lives for all manner of things. That's why I argue, like you do, that unborn humans are human beings, because we need to be honest about what we're killing in an abortion and make it a truly informed choice. Once we all agree on what we're actually doing, we can then stake out where society stands on the value of those unborn humans.

We allow for the killing or deaths of humans all the time, but we at least acknowledge that's what we are doing. We didn't pretend Grandma was not a human when the elderly were expected to go off and sit on an ice floe to die, and we don't pretend the people dying in car crashes are not human to feel good about driving fast, etc. We as society set out guidelines and restrictions to preserve life as much as possible, and I want the abortion argument to be treated the same way. Instead of pretending that an unborn human is not a human being, let's acknowledge that it is and acknowledge that society is willing to accept the deaths of those unborn humans in exchange for whatever it is that parents get when they abort a child. That way we can have an honest discussion instead of cloaking what we're doing behind euphemistic rhetoric.

I really think that we do that because we don't WANT to have that honest discussion. We want to be able to say that a rape victim's mental health is of greater value than the life of her unborn child, but we know that admitting the life of an unborn is worth less than the convenience or vanity of a woman who doesn't want to deal with what pregnancy does to her body is not supported by most of society.

 

[Dadoalex]

Yes, human being killed.

Considering I don't know the sex of each fetus, it works.

No. You're lying. No human beings killed, just parasites being removed.
and
If you considered it a "human being" you would have said "they" or "them" but you said "it."
The proverbial Freudian Slip.

 

[Dadoalex]

It's certainly not a zebra or a yeti. Find me a biology textbook that says an unborn human is not a human.

That "parasite" remains a parasite, completely unable to take care of itself until several years after birth. Why do you want to prosecute a mother for murder if she casually drops her 6-month-old baby in a trash compactor?

See, your arguments are completely arbitrary and not based in science or objective measures. An unborn human is just that, a human. Once you admit that, we can have a discussion about the value we as society place on that human. Obviously, you place no value on unborn human life at all and should not be entrusted with the care of a pregnant woman.

Find me one that called an embryo a "human being"

My comments are the natural extension of your religious beliefs into a world where your religion has been shown again and again to be self serving, money grabbing, lies.

The fetus meets each and every definition of a parasite.
UNTIL
It is born.

Until it is born the fetus is not a human being.

 

[hadit]

No. You're lying. No human beings killed, just parasites being removed.
and
If you considered it a "human being" you would have said "they" or "them" but you said "it."
The proverbial Freudian Slip.

That "parasite" remains totally dependent on the parents for his/her survival for years after birth. Why do you want to prosecute the parents if they want to remove the parasite from their lives and simply kill him/her?

Your viability (and that's what it is) argument falls flat on its face. Using that standard, Chris Reeve lost his humanity when his head hit that rock and it would have been legal to cut him into pieces with a saw like we do to unborn children.