Issues on which I disagree with the right

[dblack]

Why should your children start with a huge economic advantage that all other children do not have, that they did not earn or deserve?

Why should you, or the government, be allowed to tell other people what they can give to their children?

The point being that you can't actually have equality under the law or justice is you do not also have some degree of economic equality and justice.

You can't have the kind of "equality" you're after without a totalitarian state forcing everyone to be equal. And even then, you'd only be kidding yourself. Some would be more equal than others

 

[Rigby5]

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats forever.

I remember when I was just a lad. My father had to go somewhere (I forget where now) and we had to drive through a bad part of town. As I gazed upon the poverty I told my father I wish I had a million dollars (a lot of money back in the 60's). He asked what I would do with a million dollars? I said I would come back here and give it to these people so they didn't have to live like this. My father smiled at my innocence and said "Son, you could give each and every one of these people a million dollars, and within time, they will end up right back here again."

Today poverty is an option, not an affliction. Every American with the exception of those physically or mentally disabled has a choice on how they wish to live. Poverty is not the cause of crime. It's usually bad upbringing and many times by a single parent. if you live in poverty today, it's the choice you made for yourself, and all the money in the world won't change that.

Speaking of my father, he grew up poor. He was raised in a house with no electricity or running water. They had an outhouse in the backyard that didn't even have a roof on it. Yet he and his six siblings never spent one day in jail. They all spent time in the military and served in war. They all gained careers for themselves and three had their own business. My aunts got married to working men and had children without spending a day on the public dole.

That is just not true.
The ability to deal with money successfully is not hereditary and is just as common among the children of poor people as it is among the children of the wealthy.
I personally came from absolute immigrant poverty and now am a success at multiple careers, as well as a success landlord.

The degree of success is dependent upon how early they start learning about how to be successful.
And those who come from wealthy families have a great and unfair advantage there.
They get exposed to more, travel more, go to better schools, have books, computers, etc., at home, etc.
When I grew up in the 50's, I saw that Blacks were hardly taught a tiny fraction of what I was taught, like how to navigate with maps, understand addresses, proportions, cross multiplying, percentages, foreign languages, etc.
The attempt to make Blacks a failure in the US was obviously deliberate.
But not sure how things are these days?

Unfairness is a cause of crime because the unfairness is real, deliberate, and deserves retaliation even if crime is the only way to do that.
We all know that is true.
For example, when my salary got high enough, and I started exploring ways to reduce the tax hit, it was obvious the tax laws are extremely unfair.
I easily cut my taxes lower than what a poor person would have to pay, and it was all legal.
The real estate tax breaks especially are extremely unfair.
The wealthy can write off mansion mortgage at an accelerated rate and trade properties every 5 years, while the poor are not even allowed to write off their rent.

 

[Rigby5]

Why? Because their parents earned it, that's why. When you make money it's your property, not the governments. This socialist dream of yours doesn't work and never will. One of the reasons we are the greatest and most wealthy country in the world is because we always have tried to make a better world for our children than we had; we are rewarded for our investments, hard work and success. It's worked pretty well I'd say. After all there is no reason to create wealth if in the end it's forcibly taken away from you. Imagine what kind of country we'd have if government took our goals away.

Giving things to your children that are then denied other children is just inherently unfair.
Luxuries do not really matter, but skills and education that alter their abilities in business do matter.
All children deserve an equal opportunity to education.

 

[Rigby5]

Why should you, or the government, be allowed to tell other people what they can give to their children?



You can't have the kind of "equality" you're after without a totalitarian state forcing everyone to be equal. And even then, you'd only be kidding yourself. Some would be more equal than others

Equality does not require everything to be identical.
For example, as long as there is cheap or free public transportation, it does not matter if a wealthy person drives a Mercedes.
Same with education.
Elite private schools are ok as long as there are still free public schools that are good enough.
And things like food or housing does not really matter, as long as sufficient quantity and adequate survival.
I only refer to equality of opportunity, not what people make of that opportunity.

 

[dblack]

Equality does not require everything to be identical.

Ok - then what things do need to be identical, and who decides?

For example, as long as there is cheap or free public transportation, it does not matter if a wealthy person drives a Mercedes.
Same with education.
Elite private schools are ok as long as there are still free public schools that are good enough.

How good is good enough? And again, who decides?

And things like food or housing does not really matter, as long as sufficient quantity and adequate survival.
I only refer to equality of opportunity, not what people make of that opportunity.

I don't think that's true. You seem to be after equal empowerment - a concept that is radically different from (and often contradicts) equal rights, or equal opportunity.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That is just not true.
The ability to deal with money successfully is not hereditary and is just as common among the children of poor people as it is among the children of the wealthy.
I personally came from absolute immigrant poverty and now am a success at multiple careers, as well as a success landlord.

The degree of success is dependent upon how early they start learning about how to be successful.
And those who come from wealthy families have a great and unfair advantage there.
They get exposed to more, travel more, go to better schools, have books, computers, etc., at home, etc.
When I grew up in the 50's, I saw that Blacks were hardly taught a tiny fraction of what I was taught, like how to navigate with maps, understand addresses, proportions, cross multiplying, percentages, foreign languages, etc.
The attempt to make Blacks a failure in the US was obviously deliberate.
But not sure how things are these days?

Unfairness is a cause of crime because the unfairness is real, deliberate, and deserves retaliation even if crime is the only way to do that.
We all know that is true.
For example, when my salary got high enough, and I started exploring ways to reduce the tax hit, it was obvious the tax laws are extremely unfair.
I easily cut my taxes lower than what a poor person would have to pay, and it was all legal.
The real estate tax breaks especially are extremely unfair.
The wealthy can write off mansion mortgage at an accelerated rate and trade properties every 5 years, while the poor are not even allowed to write off their rent.

Handling money is less hereditary than it is a talent or gift of sorts. As I stated I've seen companies close down after the original owner retired or passed away and left it to his kids. If handling money or business was hereditary than that would never happen.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You can start teaching your kids about being successful from the time they talk and it won't do a lick of good if they have no interest, and believe it or not, some people don't really care about success.

There is no excuse for being involved in crime money or otherwise. People that come to this country laugh at what we consider poverty. Poverty in the US is living in the suburbs on the HUD program, a big screen television, all the amenities that middle-class have like cell phones, cable television, microwave ovens, washers and dryers and so on. And again poverty is a choice just like being middle-class is a choice. Your environment is entirely up to you. Nobody in this country needs to rob a bank. All that will do is get you thrown in prison and preclude you from getting any kind of work that actually pays something when you get out.

Our failed education system is equal among races. They don't teach kids about investments or money. They are too worried about teaching them a boy can be a girl simply by wearing a dress, or how guilty you should feel for being white. If you want to learn about money or investments, you need to go to college which a lot of kids are not able to do.

 

[Rigby5]

Ok - then what things do need to be identical, and who decides?

How good is good enough? And again, who decides?

I don't think that's true. You seem to be after equal empowerment - a concept that is radically different from (and often contradicts) equal rights, or equal opportunity.

What I am referring to is public education to include college or trade schools, be state wide funded instead of local property tax, no red lining, no land lord tax breaks that tenants don't get, etc.
Nothing has to be identical, but all people should have reasonable preparation and opportunity.

Not sure what "empowerment" means?
If voting, media access, candidacy, etc., then should be equal.
If that means equal luxuries without lifting a finger, then no.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Equality does not require everything to be identical.
For example, as long as there is cheap or free public transportation, it does not matter if a wealthy person drives a Mercedes.
Same with education.
Elite private schools are ok as long as there are still free public schools that are good enough.
And things like food or housing does not really matter, as long as sufficient quantity and adequate survival.
I only refer to equality of opportunity, not what people make of that opportunity.

But that's what we have in this country, equal opportunity, not equal outcome as you are aiming for.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What I am referring to is public education to include college or trade schools, be state wide funded instead of local property tax, no red lining, no land lord tax breaks that tenants don't get, etc.
Nothing has to be identical, but all people should have reasonable preparation and opportunity.

Not sure what "empowerment" means?
If voting, media access, candidacy, etc., then should be equal.
If that means equal luxuries without lifting a finger, then no.

Landlords like any business base their rental price on their costs. If our costs are higher, we need to charge more for rent. If our costs are lower we can charge less for rent. When we get these so-called tax breaks, it does impact the tenants as we don't have to up our rental price to cover those costs we would otherwise not be able to write off.

Here I pay property tax that my tenants don't have to pay. They pay for it indirectly, but the tax is in my name and I'm the one that has to write the checks.

 

[Concerned American]

some people don't really care about success.

Define success. Success is different for different people. Some want to be millionaires. Some want to control people. Some--you can count me in this group--just want to live a quiet comfortable existence without interference. I worked my 50 years and attained my goal, that is success. But I understand what you are saying. When I was in junior high in NM, we had classes in civics and general business that taught all of the things that were necessary to get you started on the right track. Today, things are so much more complicated than they need to be. In addition to the things we had to deal with, today's kids have all of the digital world to navigate plus all of the extraneous bs of social engineering.

 

[Rigby5]

Handling money is less hereditary than it is a talent or gift of sorts. As I stated I've seen companies close down after the original owner retired or passed away and left it to his kids. If handling money or business was hereditary than that would never happen.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You can start teaching your kids about being successful from the time they talk and it won't do a lick of good if they have no interest, and believe it or not, some people don't really care about success.

There is no excuse for being involved in crime money or otherwise. People that come to this country laugh at what we consider poverty. Poverty in the US is living in the suburbs on the HUD program, a big screen television, all the amenities that middle-class have like cell phones, cable television, microwave ovens, washers and dryers and so on. And again poverty is a choice just like being middle-class is a choice. Your environment is entirely up to you. Nobody in this country needs to rob a bank. All that will do is get you thrown in prison and preclude you from getting any kind of work that actually pays something when you get out.

Our failed education system is equal among races. They don't teach kids about investments or money. They are too worried about teaching them a boy can be a girl simply by wearing a dress, or how guilty you should feel for being white. If you want to learn about money or investments, you need to go to college which a lot of kids are not able to do.

Schools should teach about investment, bank accounts, stock market, tax laws, map reading, computer use, email, etc.
Essential life skills.

I lived in poor neighborhoods and saw how unfair, how bad police, laws, judges, politicians, etc. are.
I think crime is MORE than justified, but crime should actually be encouraged as an essential patriotic act when against the abundant injustice.
We do NOT live in a democratic republic at all, but a despotic autocracy of the wealthy elite.
The fact I now am one of the wealthy elite, does not excuse how corrupt and essentially evil the whole society is.
The fact we have the largest % imprisoned in the world, proves that.
The fact we spend more than any other country on military, police, prisons, etc. proves that.
We constantly lie, like WMD in Iraq, and try to justify deliberate wholesale murder.

 

[dblack]

Not sure what "empowerment" means?

Of course not. It's rather ambiguous. Probably why statists use the term. It seems related to the difference between "equal rights" and "equality". Some people don't think equal rights matter unless everyone is equal empowered to exercise those rights.

 

[Rigby5]

Landlords like any business base their rental price on their costs. If our costs are higher, we need to charge more for rent. If our costs are lower we can charge less for rent. When we get these so-called tax breaks, it does impact the tenants as we don't have to up our rental price to cover those costs we would otherwise not be able to write off.

Here I pay property tax that my tenants don't have to pay. They pay for it indirectly, but the tax is in my name and I'm the one that has to write the checks.

I also sold real estate and about 30% of real estate price is due to landlords raising the bid, due to the free tax breaks they get an advantage from.
Land lord breaks do not encourage housing, but discourage owner occupied because they raise the price too much.
Everyone who can afford rent should be able afford the mortgage on their own home, if the world was at all fair.
But essentially my renters are my slaves, buying houses for me, that I only have to get credit and down payment for.
Everyone knows the system is rigged.

 

[Rigby5]

Define success. Success is different for different people. Some want to be millionaires. Some want to control people. Some--you can count me in this group--just want to live a quiet comfortable existence without interference. I worked my 50 years and attained my goal, that is success. But I understand what you are saying. When I was in junior high in NM, we had classes in civics and general business that taught all of the things that were necessary to get you started on the right track. Today, things are so much more complicated than they need to be. In addition to the things we had to deal with, today's kids have all of the digital world to navigate plus all of the extraneous bs of social engineering.

I would bet that in wealthy areas, schools teach things like bank accounts, taxes, voting, etc., that are not taught in poor areas.

 

[Rigby5]

Advanced education, like college or trade schools, no longer is an optional privilege.
Everyone should be able and encouraged to do it.
Otherwise China will beat us.

 

[Not a Monkeys Uncle]

This can be the start of debate, or just a bit of disclaimer for me.

I'm libertarian. As I predicted in the introductions thread, I seem to be disagreeing with progressives/leftists on here and thus may appear to some of you to be right-wing. So, here's where I'm not right-wing:

Pretty much any right-wing belief that opposes liberty or equality of opportunity, or that favors government involvement in areas in which the government should butt out.

So - even though I wish there were far fewer abortions, or even no abortions - I don't favor banning them.

I don't favor prayers in public schools, because I think the 1A does not allow government officials to establish a religion in a tax-funded institution.

As a libertarian, I'd like to see government get out of the business of licensing marriage, but if they do license marriage, it should be available to all sexes, all perceived genders and in any number - barring under-age marriage. Libertarianism is for adults.

I don't favor the war on drugs.

I don't favor the wars in the middle-east.

I don't favor going to war to protect Taiwan.

The MIC has been wagging the dog far to long, IMHO.

When I have time I am going to fully address it. Until then, let me say that no real conservative "favors" war. But we do believe in honoring our word if it was given to an ally.

You Libertarians have way more in common with us real conservatives than you do with the Marxist authoritarian Democrats.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Pull your head out of your ass, Biden's open borders have allowed enough Fentanyl into the country to kill every American 7 times over. Thousands are dying.

If drugs were legal, there would be no need for Fentanyl because crooked drug suppliers use it to imitate controlled drugs.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Advanced education, like college or trade schools, no longer is an optional privilege.
Everyone should be able and encouraged to do it.
Otherwise China will beat us.

But we would need to adopt Asian education methods in which kids learn math and science instead of white guilt and transgender athletics.

Sending uneducated people to advanced education would waste their time and my money.

 

[Rigby5]

When I have time I am going to fully address it. Until then, let me say that no real conservative "favors" war. But we do believe in honoring our word if it was given to an ally.

You Libertarians have way more in common with us real conservatives than you do with the Marxist authoritarian Democrats.

But those calling themselves Republicans have always favored wars, and started bad wars, like the invasion of Iraq, based on deliberate lies.
That is because there are always huge profits from wars.
There has never been a "good" war since 1812.

Someone pretending to be an ally is not sufficient basis for joining them in corrupt military action.
For example, the British. French, and Russians were the evil of WWI, and we went on the side of liars, assassins, and the corrupt.
Israel claims to be our ally, but is evil.

The rule of law does not allow for favoring our supposed "allies" when it comes to lies and injustice.

 

[Rigby5]

If drugs were legal, there would be no need for Fentanyl because crooked drug suppliers use it to imitate controlled drugs.

If drugs were legal then there would not be deaths from contamination, unstable doses, etc.
There is no legal basis to criminalize drugs.
It simply makes this into a dictatorship, especially when combined with illegal sentence mandates and illegal asset forfeiture.