Italy shows that gun control doesn't effect gun murder rates...

[JakeStarkey]

BTW the US has had 152 mass shootings since 1967, since we implemented gun control in the UK, we've had 1

And the murder rate has not dropped below what it was before all you gun laws were passed

The UK and the US are not analogous.

Those are primarily regular criminals doing gun murders. The gun laws have prevented it from growing signficantly, if at all, from that base line.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yabut the murder rate is going up.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And ours hasn't increased significantly from what it was in 1950

Yabut . . . I dare you to correlate those numbers with 1950.

 

[Skull Pilot]

BTW the US has had 152 mass shootings since 1967, since we implemented gun control in the UK, we've had 1

And the murder rate has not dropped below what it was before all you gun laws were passed

The UK and the US are not analogous.

Those are primarily regular criminals doing gun murders. The gun laws have prevented it from growing signficantly, if at all, from that base line.

Where are your numbers to prove it

Our murder rate today isn't all that different from what it was in the 1950's

So using your logic we must have more "regular" criminals

And in a way you are right

70% of all murders in this country are confined to very small very distinct urban areas but you don't care about that at all just like you don't care that if we could get a handle on the causes of urban violence we actually drop our murder rate by up to 70% which would bring us very close to the murder rates in the European countries you love so much but you would rather talk about preventing mass murders which account for only 1% of all murders.

As with all you people gun control means more to you than actually addressing the causes of the urban violence that drives our murder rate

 

[Skull Pilot]

And ours hasn't increased significantly from what it was in 1950

Yabut . . . I dare you to correlate those numbers with 1950.

Look at the whole country idiot.

All you did here was prove my point that inner city violence drives our murder rate. 20% of the murder rate increase in 2016 was attributable to Chicago alone.

Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2014

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's not guns that drive our murder rate

Inner-City Violence in the Age of Mass Incarceration

 

[JakeStarkey]

Skull cannot refute the numbers and what they mean.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Skull cannot refute the numbers and what they mean.

You haven't given me any numbers but for your cherry picked urban data that actually supports my claim that inner city violence drives our murder rate

 

[dave p]

Skull Pilot, when 2aguy provided figures instead of View attachment 203495 , then we can offer the other figures and compare. It is his duty and needs to get to it. Why hasn't he? ....

He has.

 

[Sahba]

What? You don't love England no more?

I love all of the gun grabbing nations....and hope that one day their people will also be free to use guns to stop rapists, robbers and killers......

the thing is... gun control is pointless even when the gun grabbers speak Italian.....

They dont have a lower IQ than gun lovers in the US. You can roam Europe and wont he at a gun shot, you can watch their local news and no gun crimes. Turn to local news in the US and its chaos.

The US's MSM is quite capable of making a seniors bake off competition into a scurrilous event filled with deep seeded jealousy and rage. (obviously the other kind of 'bake off' would be touted as transformational and virtuous by the same MSM) The MSM is a much more insidious problem than the guns in this nation; actually enforce the laws already on the books and STFU about it & leave these murderers in obscurity without the infamy that they crave.

 

[dave p]

Yabut the murder rate is going up.

Chicago has one of the toughest gun laws around.

 

[dave p]

BTW the US has had 152 mass shootings since 1967, since we implemented gun control in the UK, we've had 1

And the murder rate has not dropped below what it was before all you gun laws were passed

The UK and the US are not analogous.

Those are primarily regular criminals doing gun murders. The gun laws have prevented it from growing signficantly, if at all, from that base line.

Regular criminals doing gun murders? What the hell does that mean?

 

[2aguy]

And ours hasn't increased significantly from what it was in 1950

Yabut . . . I dare you to correlate those numbers with 1950.

And the truth...democrats are the problem... not law abiding gun owners....notice that of the top 20 cities leading for murder, 18 of them are run by democrats and the top 13 are all democrats........and notice how long the democrats have been in control....

The Truth About Gun Violence in America. New Survey Burns Gun Control Narrative.

 

[Vagabond63]

People using firearms kill people.

People using knives kill people
People using clubs kill people
People kill people with their bare hands

People kill people
People have always killed people
People will always kill people

this fact is as irrefutable as gravity and you think getting rid of guns will stop it

Of course not, but tight gun controls will reduce or even remove one major method of killing people.

 

[Vagabond63]

BTW the US has had 152 mass shootings since 1967, since we implemented gun control in the UK, we've had 1

And the murder rate has not dropped below what it was before all you gun laws were passed

The UK and the US are not analogous.

True, we use clubs and knives and rocks and poison and cars and all the other means by which human beings can kill or injure each other. We don't need guns to make it easier to kill people, hence the consistency in our murder rate.

 

[Skull Pilot]

People using firearms kill people.

People using knives kill people
People using clubs kill people
People kill people with their bare hands

People kill people
People have always killed people
People will always kill people

this fact is as irrefutable as gravity and you think getting rid of guns will stop it

Of course not, but tight gun controls will reduce or even remove one major method of killing people.

Gun laws do not lower murder rates

 

[Skull Pilot]

BTW the US has had 152 mass shootings since 1967, since we implemented gun control in the UK, we've had 1

And the murder rate has not dropped below what it was before all you gun laws were passed

The UK and the US are not analogous.

True, we use clubs and knives and rocks and poison and cars and all the other means by which human beings can kill or injure each other. We don't need guns to make it easier to kill people, hence the consistency in our murder rate.

Your murder rate was lower in the 50's before all the gun laws started being passed in the 60's

There are many more variables than just guns that determine the murder rate

In the US our murder rate is driven by urban violence. 70% of all murders in the US occur in very small very distinct areas. These murder islands are historically inner city areas that are segregated to a high degree and are plagued with drugs and crime.

Inner-City Violence in the Age of Mass Incarceration - The Atlantic

If we Americans had the will we could drastically lower our murder rate without any changes to the second amendment. Our murder rate if we did address inner city urban violence and its causes could be lowered by up to 70% which would bring our murder rate down to less than 2 per 100000.

But the truth is we don't really care that young urban minorities are killing each other in droves

I wouldn't expect any foreigner to realize any of this which is why they should refrain from making comments on the subject

 

[Vagabond63]

Skull pilot and 2aguy perhaps need to get together and sort out their arguments as they are inherently contradictory. If 70% of murders occur in a small number of inner city areas (and I agree concentrating on solving their problems would go a long way to lowering that rate)why does everyone else need to own guns for self defence?

I wouldn't expect any foreigner to realize any of this which is why they should refrain from making comments on the subject

I'm not the one constantly spamming the Europe forum with NRA inspired "fear" threads. Thank you, Europe can get along fine with whatever level of gun control we are comfortable with without "foreign" assistance.