I've heard it on here so much enough is enough

[Harry Dresden]

Conservatives at the time were MONARCHISTS. DEMOCRATS WERE RADICAL, LIBERAL, REVOLUTIONARIES....

aND THEY'D BE LIBERALS TODAY TOO.

''Liberals are traitors'' is over the top new bs GOP Pubcrappe. Keep it up lol...

yea Frankie and you and your fellow Lefties calling Republicans/Conservatives Anti-American/Traitors is over the top too....just more bullshit DNC Demcrap.....keep it up....lol

 

[tinydancer]

Some reactionaries mistakenly believe that the founders are equal to modern day far right TeaPs and reactionaries. and would support the policies of modern day reactionaries.

And don't try that TeaPs and reactionaries are "classical liberals". Nup, they are tories.

Seriously Jake we will lose them on the differentiations between tories and whigs.They just won't understand it at all.

There are days when we talk on different levels and they won't get it. Not being an elitist here. But just for truth. And I cannot blame them. Look at their teachers.

 

[william the wie]

There are a couple examples that I could give as to what you're looking for, but that's not really what people mean when they say the Fathers were "liberal".

"Liberal" and "conservative" have literal meanings that are different from their current political designations.

The founding fathers were "liberal" in the sense that they were "not opposed to new ideas or ways of behaving that are not traditional or widely accepted", and not "conservative" in the sense meaning "not liking or accepting changes or new ideas."

By that definition, today's liberals are some of the most un-liberal (or is that illiberal?) people you will encounter.

Given that they cling so desperately to a Medicare, Medicaid and Great Society welfare mindset stuck in the 1960s, the New Dealer quasi-socialism rooted in the 1940s, central banking and progressive income taxation rooted in the 19-teens, and an education system rooted in an early Industrial Revolution model, they look more and more like the Torries that the revolutionaries overthrew back in the 18th century.

But increasingly they are geographically and politically isolated:

The left coast and the Washington-Boston echo chamber are destroying the D brand in the rest of the country.

Since non-compliant states have less coverage they will tend to export their D constituencies to the compliant states even if they win the subsidy court battle.

The loss of rural and poor urban hospitals due to the elimination of federal hospital subsidies is already causing more radical electorates in many states most notably GA.

The shift of investment to lower tax jurisdictions has been 3 to 1 in favor of Red states since the meltdown. This seems to be a compound interest function that will most likely become acute @ 2020.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I'll say this the founders would be nothing like a modern day Conservative or liberal.

thats because they put the Country ahead of themselves.....that is the MAIN difference....

 

[daveman]

Some reactionaries mistakenly believe that the founders are equal to modern day far right TeaPs and reactionaries. and would support the policies of modern day reactionaries.

And don't try that TeaPs and reactionaries are "classical liberals". Nup, they are tories.

Yes, the Founders wanted limited government, maximum personal liberty, and freedom from burdensome taxation.

NOTHING like the TEA Party.

Oh, wait...

 

[william the wie]

Some reactionaries mistakenly believe that the founders are equal to modern day far right TeaPs and reactionaries. and would support the policies of modern day reactionaries.

And don't try that TeaPs and reactionaries are "classical liberals". Nup, they are tories.

Yes, the Founders wanted limited government, maximum personal liberty, and freedom from burdensome taxation.

NOTHING like the TEA Party.

Oh, wait...

Don't confuse liberals with facts.

 

[Old Rocks]

First liberals on this board or some liberals claim that the founding fathers of this country were liberals. What I want to address is which liberal policy would the founders of America support?
Give their names and the policy.

The founding fathers were mostly Christian. Benjamin Franklin was considered one of the least religous among them and he even supported prayer to God before meetings of the Constitutional Congress. The first text books in first grade circa 1776 was the New England Primer; The New England Primer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Christian Nation Myth

Whenever the Supreme Court makes a decision that in any way restricts the intrusion of religion into the affairs of government, a flood of editorials, articles, and letters protesting the ruling is sure to appear in the newspapers. Many protesters decry these decisions on the grounds that they conflict with the wishes and intents of the "founding fathers."

Such a view of American history is completely contrary to known facts. The primary leaders of the so-called founding fathers of our nation were not Bible-believing Christians; they were deists. Deism was a philosophical belief that was widely accepted by the colonial intelligentsia at the time of the American Revolution. Its major tenets included belief in human reason as a reliable means of solving social and political problems and belief in a supreme deity who created the universe to operate solely by natural laws. The supreme God of the Deists removed himself entirely from the universe after creating it. They believed that he assumed no control over it, exerted no influence on natural phenomena, and gave no supernatural revelation to man. A necessary consequence of these beliefs was a rejection of many doctrines central to the Christian religion. Deists did not believe in the virgin birth, divinity, or resurrection of Jesus, the efficacy of prayer, the miracles of the Bible, or even the divine inspiration of the Bible.

These beliefs were forcefully articulated by Thomas Paine in Age of Reason, a book that so outraged his contemporaries that he died rejected and despised by the nation that had once revered him as "the father of the American Revolution." To this day, many mistakenly consider him an atheist, even though he was an out spoken defender of the Deistic view of God. Other important founding fathers who espoused Deism were George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, James Madison, and James Monroe.

Fundamentalist Christians are currently working overtime to convince the American public that the founding fathers intended to establish this country on "biblical principles," but history simply does not support their view. The men mentioned above and others who were instrumental in the founding of our nation were in no sense Bible-believing Christians. Thomas Jefferson, in fact, was fiercely anti-cleric. In a letter to Horatio Spafford in 1814, Jefferson said, "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes" (George Seldes, The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey Citadel Press, 1983, p. 371). In a letter to Mrs. Harrison Smith, he wrote, "It is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read. By the same test the world must judge me. But this does not satisfy the priesthood. They must have a positive, a declared assent to all their interested absurdities. My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest" (August 6, 1816)

 

[daveman]

Some reactionaries mistakenly believe that the founders are equal to modern day far right TeaPs and reactionaries. and would support the policies of modern day reactionaries.

And don't try that TeaPs and reactionaries are "classical liberals". Nup, they are tories.

Yes, the Founders wanted limited government, maximum personal liberty, and freedom from burdensome taxation.

NOTHING like the TEA Party.

Oh, wait...

Don't confuse liberals with facts.

Especially Fakey.

Whenever someone criticizes the left, Fakey's there taking it personally.

Yet he's a "moderate Republican".

 

[Freewill]

There are a couple examples that I could give as to what you're looking for, but that's not really what people mean when they say the Fathers were "liberal".

"Liberal" and "conservative" have literal meanings that are different from their current political designations.

The founding fathers were "liberal" in the sense that they were "not opposed to new ideas or ways of behaving that are not traditional or widely accepted", and not "conservative" in the sense meaning "not liking or accepting changes or new ideas."

That's exactly what I mean some liberals on here think the founders are equal to modern day liberals. and would support the policies of modern day liberals.

Actually bigreb don't buy into the liberal definition of themselves. What they mean is that throughout history whatever turned out to be good they assign to liberalism everything bad to conservatives.

 

[francoHFW]

One thing the founders were the TP isn't- intelligent, well educated, open minded, open to compromise- basically not brainwashed, bitter, old dingbats LOL. Dupes of the greedy rich and corporations- STILL just still the idiot RW of the bs GOP...ENJOY YOUR DISAPPEARANCE....80 PER CENT OF THE COUNTRY IS SICK TO DEATH OF YOU...LOL

 

[Old Rocks]

Before the end of the day the founding fathers as written by the newbies will be transgendered athiests who hated and despised Christians, Jews and Muslims.

When you hate God you hate these religions and more.

Very nice. Putting words in peoples mouths that were never there. A very crappy way of making a point. One that points out the crappyness of the point being attempted. Most of the major players in the Revolution were Diests. They acknowledged a diety, but not neccessarily the Christian one.

And one might note the many differant personalities and views in the US at that time. John Adams had a very difficult time accepting Franklins libertine ways. Madison thought that religion and government should not mix, as government would corrupt religion. Jefferson believed that religion would corrupt government. They were both correct.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yes, the Founders wanted limited government, maximum personal liberty, and freedom from burdensome taxation.

NOTHING like the TEA Party.

Oh, wait...

Don't confuse liberals with facts.

Especially Fakey.

Whenever someone criticizes the left, Fakey's there taking it personally.

Yet he's a "moderate Republican".

As always great post.

 

[william the wie]

I do have to agree with Old Rocks. Washington, for example, got saved after he left office. Christian founding fathers became so mostly during the awakening of the 1790s to 1820s

 

[Plasmaball]

First liberals on this board or some liberals claim that the founding fathers of this country were liberals. What I want to address is which liberal policy would the founders of America support?
Give their names and the policy.

Public education...central government. .


And I win..go back to eating your crayons.

 

[Plasmaball]

Before the end of the day the founding fathers as written by the newbies will be transgendered athiests who hated and despised Christians, Jews and Muslims.

When you hate God you hate these religions and more.

It would be a better america.

 

[Plasmaball]

Some reactionaries mistakenly believe that the founders are equal to modern day far right TeaPs and reactionaries. and would support the policies of modern day reactionaries.

And don't try that TeaPs and reactionaries are "classical liberals". Nup, they are tories.

Yes, the Founders wanted limited government, maximum personal liberty, and freedom from burdensome taxation.

NOTHING like the TEA Party.

Oh, wait...

No they wanted a central power base and never actually followed through with a limited government.
But hey why let facts get in the way.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

First liberals on this board or some liberals claim that the founding fathers of this country were liberals. What I want to address is which liberal policy would the founders of America support?
Give their names and the policy.

Public education...central government. .


And I win..go back to eating your crayons.

Public education? ok why does America fall behind, many liberals claim that
central government does not equate big government I trumped you win into a lose.

 

[Listening]

There are a couple examples that I could give as to what you're looking for, but that's not really what people mean when they say the Fathers were "liberal".

"Liberal" and "conservative" have literal meanings that are different from their current political designations.

The founding fathers were "liberal" in the sense that they were "not opposed to new ideas or ways of behaving that are not traditional or widely accepted", and not "conservative" in the sense meaning "not liking or accepting changes or new ideas."

By that definition, today's liberals are some of the most un-liberal (or is that illiberal?) people you will encounter.

Given that they cling so desperately to a Medicare, Medicaid and Great Society welfare mindset stuck in the 1960s, the New Dealer quasi-socialism rooted in the 1940s, central banking and progressive income taxation rooted in the 19-teens, and an education system rooted in an early Industrial Revolution model, they look more and more like the Torries that the revolutionaries overthrew back in the 18th century.

Great post.

Rep when I can.

I sure enjoyed the liberals Ted Kennedy and Chuck Schumer lecturing Roberts on not changing the so called "gains" of the last 40 years.

That is, by definition...conservative.

It was the GOP that fought for civil liberties and the southern dems who sought to keep blacks in servitude.

 

[william the wie]

First liberals on this board or some liberals claim that the founding fathers of this country were liberals. What I want to address is which liberal policy would the founders of America support?
Give their names and the policy.

Public education...central government. .


And I win..go back to eating your crayons.

Public education? ok why does America fall behind, many liberals claim that
central government does not equate big government I trumped you win into a lose.

Damning yourself with faint praise again?

 

[ScienceRocks]

Our foundering fathers were the liberals of the day.
1.Pushed for a stronger federal government
2. Some want on to push for a central bank(hamition)
3. Others would become president and push for even more power(Adams)

These men learned first hand just how stupid it is to go without a centralized federal government(military). The war of 1812 taught us this lesson in spades.