i've re-considered the entire Ukraine case.. enter *your* opinions please..

[AntonToo]

Ukraine was/is one of the most corrupt countries on earth

Bullshit.

It ranks 122/180, thats bellow average but certainly not one of the most corrupt.

2021 Corruption Perceptions Index - Explore Ukraineâs results

How does Ukraine measure up in the 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index?

www.transparency.org

You can also note significant improvement since 2014.

 

[georgephillip]

whose special forces? What are they up to?

I have found it. They are US

The US Special Forces are Quietly Sent to Ukraine

The U.S. Army’s Special Forces, better known as Green Berets, have had a deep impact on Ukraine’s fight to defend itself from a Russian invasion, despite not being directly involved in …

whatsuptoday.org

would I be right in assuming that the US is now formally at war with Russia?

I would think Russians in Mexico operating similarly would qualify as an act of war?

Your link:

"Those skills have been put to use in Ukraine since 2014, with Green Berets and members of the Army’s National Guard advising and training Ukrainian forces at Yavoriv Combat Training Center in western Ukraine.

"It’s the same facility Russia attacked with rockets on March 13, killing 35.

"The Americans had already left, vacating the facility and moving troops deployed there to Germany in February.

"Part of the job Green Berets did at Yavoriv was to train their Ukrainian counterparts to set up militia units that could wage guerrilla warfare against an invading force."

 

[georgephillip]

They can’t see their blatant hypocrisy.

Proof the establishment can easily dupe many.

I think many who have experienced systems of overt coercion fail to recognize how self-censorship defines acceptable limits of debate in this country:

Manufacturing Consent - Wikipedia

"Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media is a 1988 book by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky. It argues that the mass communication media of the U.S. 'are effective and powerful ideological institutions that carry out a system-supportive propaganda function, by reliance on market forces, internalized assumptions, and self-censorship, and without overt coercion', by means of the propaganda model of communication.[1]"

I also suspect many who claim they came here for the "freedom" are only here for the money, and they couldn't care less how many innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet have to die or suffer displacement to sustain America's permanent war-time economy.

 

[georgephillip]

Compared to Russia our society and governing is free, fair and open.

How do US incarceration rates compare with Russian?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate#:~:text=State%20and%20federal%20prison%20and,percent%20of%20the%20world's%20prisoners.

 

[gipper]

How do US incarceration rates compare with Russian?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate#:~:text=State%20and%20federal%20prison%20and,percent%20of%20the%20world's%20prisoners.

Joe Biden had a lot do with that.

 

[georgephillip]

You post this after Russian army embarased itself internationally and got it's back broken trying to take Kiev?

Russian's never tried to take Kiev unless you believe 40,000 Russian troops were
capable of conquering a city of 3,000,000 people and defended by 60,000 armed troops..

One moment, please...

"Numerous military analysts, including former United Nations weapons inspector Scott Ritter, disagreed with the mainstream narrative of ‘the battle for Kyiv.’

"They argued that Russia’s advance on Kyiv was not a genuine attempt to take the city, but a 'feint' designed to tie Ukrainian forces down in and around Ukraine’s capital while other Russian forces ‘shaped the battlefield’ in the Donbas—the Russian military’s principal objective.

"Among other things, Ritter pointed out that the Russian columns that had advanced on Kyiv consisted of some 40,000 troops, and that no one with half of a military brain would attempt with so few soldiers to conquer a city of three million people defended by 60,000 Ukrainian troops.

"According to Ritter, 'the so-called ‘battle for Kyiv’ is a clear-cut example of the difference between perception and reality.'"

 

[AntonToo]

Russian's never tried to take Kiev unless you believe 40,000 Russian troops were
capable of conquering a city of 3,000,000 people and defended by 60,000 armed troops..

The US Special Forces are Quietly Sent to Ukraine

"Numerous military analysts, including former United Nations weapons inspector Scott Ritter, disagreed with the mainstream narrative of ‘the battle for Kyiv.’

"They argued that Russia’s advance on Kyiv was not a genuine attempt to take the city, but a 'feint' designed to tie Ukrainian forces down in and around Ukraine’s capital while other Russian forces ‘shaped the battlefield’ in the Donbas—the Russian military’s principal objective.

Russian advance on Kiev was a total MEAT GRINDER. Russians (illigaly) sent in police units to keep civilians on order after take over, who the fuck does that for a fake? But no matter what their goals where, it cost them thousands of soldiers in bodybags, elite paratroopers included.

By all accounts it was a total clusterfuck and embarrassment.

 

[gipper]

Russian advance on Kiev was a total MEAT GRINDER. Russians (illigaly) sent in police units to keep civilians on order after take over, who the fuck does that for a fake? But no matter what their goals where, it cost them thousands of soldiers in bodybags, elite paratroopers included.

By all accounts it was a total clusterfuck and embarrassment.

Its hard to know if that is true. The western media has lied and misrepresented this war, they are untrustworthy.

 

[AntonToo]

Its hard to know if that is true. The western media has lied and misrepresented this war, they are untrustworthy.

Western media has NOTHING to with it. I'm going off local video feed and testinomy of Russian police officers and soldiers that were captured.

This is just a small example of all the stuff you have no idea about.



Russian goals were not to take Kiev through conventional warfare, they were looking to decapitate Zelenskiy's gov. The blitz was to create a safe passage for elite squads tasked with it. They failed.

Chechen hit squad sent to murder Zelenskyy 'eliminated,' top Ukrainian defense official says

A team of elite commandos sent to assassinate President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was "eliminated" by security forces, a top defense official said.

www.fox5atlanta.com

 

[gipper]

Western media has NOTHING to with it. I'm going off local video feed and testinomy of Russian police officers and soldiers that were captured.

This is just a small example of all the stuff you have no idea about.



Russian goals were not to take Kiev through conventional warfare, they were looking to decapitate Zelenskiy's gov. The blitz was to create a safe passage for elite squads tasked with it. They failed.

Chechen hit squad sent to murder Zelenskyy 'eliminated,' top Ukrainian defense official says

A team of elite commandos sent to assassinate President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was "eliminated" by security forces, a top defense official said.

www.fox5atlanta.com

The western media lies. So, they have a lot to do with it.

 

[AntonToo]

The western media lies. So, they have a lot to do with it.

Russian police captain is "western media"?

Your comments are straight silly.

 

[georgephillip]

Russian advance on Kiev was a total MEAT GRINDER. Russians (illigaly) sent in police units to keep civilians on order after take over, who the fuck does that for a fake? But no matter what their goals where, it cost them thousands of soldiers in bodybags, elite paratroopers included.

By all accounts it was a total clusterfuck and embarrassment.

How do you capture a city of 3 million defended by 60,000 military professionals with an invasion force of 40,000?

One moment, please...

"Larry C. Johnson, a veteran of the CIA and the State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism, argued that Russian forces had reached the outskirts of the capital with extraordinary speed and that, within the first day of the conflict, Russian forces wiped out all Ukrainian Ground Radar Intercept capabilities and thereby deprived the Ukrainian Air Force of its ability to do air to air intercept.

"Five weeks after Russia launched its invasion, Lt. Gen Prakash Katoch, a retired special forces officer from the Indian military, authored an article entitled 'America’s Information War is Self-Delusional.'

"In it, Katoch argued that Russia was winning the war decisively. 'The West doesn’t need state media,' he wrote, 'it has corporations that own both the state and the media; much more potent and dangerous who together are blowing Biden’s trumpet.'"

 

[georgephillip]

I wonder why the comments of the Mexican president Andrés Manuel López Obrador wasn’t reported in mainstream western news outlets, when he said to the Ukrainians, “We provide the weapons, you provide the corpses!”

For many of the same reason$ Biden's call for "regime change" in Russia was never seriously acknowledged here?

"Biden’s remark of 'regime change' in Moscow has now been attributed to a faux pas by the White House.

"But Biden has publicly called Russian President Vladimir Putin a 'butcher' and said he cannot stay in power.

"Biden said so during a meeting with refugees who have fled Ukraine to the Polish capital, and called the fight against Putin a 'new battle for freedom'.

"This is quite amusing considering Biden has converted democratic America to a Global Autocracy."

Read more at:
America’s Information War is Self Delusional - Indian Defence Review

 

[Ringo]

Humanity in its history has led, is leading now, and will lead many wars more than once.
It would be very close to the truth to say that all wars can be conditionally divided into four categories:

— wars between separate independent states;
— wars between coalitions of states or wars of a coalition of states against one state;
— suppression of rebellions and uprisings in the rebellious part (or parts) in one state;
— civil wars;
A distinctive feature of the Russian special military operation in Ukraine is the fact that it combines all types of wars.

In the history of mankind, everything would be too simple if the fact of the existence of an independent sovereign State were based only on its international recognition and the establishment of borders by fixing them in the relevant treaties.

In reality, things are much more complicated.
The borders of states and their very existence are determined only by success or not success in war.

It is based on its results that borders are determined, dividing lines are drawn and habitats of peoples and nations are marked.
The results of wars are not always, or rather, almost never, absolutely fair and satisfying to all parties to conflicts. As a rule, this serves as a reason for the continuation of armed clashes in the future, and the peace interval can be determined both for years and decades, and for whole centuries.

If in this case it is possible to talk about any compromises, then only in cases when the winner shows humanity and gentleness to the defeated opponent. Unfortunately, there are very few such examples.

They do not exist at all in the history of imperialism and colonial conquests. The defeated peoples are either destroyed or enslaved. And there is no third way. The West never compromises if it wins.

Currently, Russia is forced to wage war with a coalition of Western neocolonial states on the territory of Ukraine.
Legally, the latter seems to be an "independent state", but in reality it is a disenfranchised satellite of the West, whose sole purpose is the role of an instrument for defeating Russia, even at the cost of the death of not only this entire state, but also the complete physical destruction of Ukrainian citizens.
There is no doubt that the conflict unleashed by the West in Ukraine is its temporary victory, which makes Western elites squeal with delight, literally and figuratively.

In order for Russia to win over the West in this battle, it is necessary to realize exactly with whom and for what it is fighting. It is especially important to understand how to treat the territory called Ukraine, and what kind of policy should be pursued with respect to its citizens, because they are one people with the citizens of Russia.
Simply put, it is necessary to determine which type of war is prevailing here and, depending on this, choose a strategy and methods of warfare.

Unfortunately, in domestic politics, seven months after the start of the SVO, no definite conclusions have been made in this regard. At least, nothing is known about this to the general public.
Thus, the conduct of war is actually reduced only to the actual conduct of hostilities. But this is only the visible part of the iceberg.

Let's digress a little. At the beginning of 1970, near the Russian city of Irkutsk, twin brothers were born in the family of a military pilot. Both also became military. Only one graduated in 1992 from the Higher Military Aviation School in Kharkov, and the second graduated from the Ryazan Higher Airborne Command School.

Now both hold considerable positions in the headquarters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. After the coup d'etat in Kiev in 2014, in 2016, the brothers stopped talking to each other. And they did it peacefully, at the request of the brother who serves in the Ukrainian army. He motivated such a move by the fact that he could be in "big trouble" if these ties are maintained.
There are at least several tens of millions of people living in Russia who either have relatives in Ukraine or have Ukrainian roots. Many of these people are now taking part in a special military operation. Truly, Russians and Ukrainians are one people.

But then the military conflict on Ukrainian territory has every reason to be called a civil war, right? Or, at least, perhaps such a question should be asked? For unknown reasons, while this factor is being considered, it is not enough.
As historical experience proves, including the very bloody domestic one, without a clear and understandable policy towards the enemy in the civil war, it is impossible to achieve victory in it.

It should be clearly understood that the population of Ukraine is a reprogrammed Russians
Russians are killing Russians, like some gladiators in an ancient Roman circus, which now allows the West to fervently satisfy itself by watching Russians kill Russians.
And Russia, instead of finding ways and methods to break this vicious bloody circle, to find a way to the hearts and minds of the citizens of Ukraine lost in the streams of Western lies, in its agitation and propaganda focuses on the destruction of Nazi militants. But this is not a struggle with the cause, but with the effect.

Yes, the citizens of Ukraine are reprogrammed Russians. And therefore, in the war they behave accordingly, only with the opposite sign.
If the Ukrainian conflict has the features of a civil war, then the approaches to its solution should be appropriate.

In particular, so far critically little has been done to make Kiev propaganda impossible on the territory of Ukraine. Equally critically little has been done regarding the effectiveness of the impact and spread of the sphere of influence of the Russian media.

A real terror reigns on the territory of Ukraine, and not only physical, but also informational, too. If it is impossible to provide the Ukrainian population with access to sources in the Russian media, then what is the point of letting the Ukrainian ones work?
Moreover, the very Russian concept of the current policy in this direction raises huge doubts.

For example, does it make any sense to call on Ukrainian servicemen to surrender in order only to save their lives, without saying anything about the fact that they are deceived and fighting for the interests of the West, their bloody ghouls-oligarchs and their common puppet Zelensky?

Yes, the citizens of Ukraine are reprogrammed Russians.

They are waging a civil war against their brothers without realizing it. And Russia, instead of stepping up all efforts to, as they would have said 100 years ago, "propagandize" them, so far prefers to act sluggishly, indecisively and simply irrationally on this front.

Yes, the citizens of Ukraine are reprogrammed Russians. And they should be treated as Russians.

 

[AntonToo]

How do you capture a city of 3 million defended by 60,000 military professionals with an invasion force of 40,000?

One moment, please...

"Larry C. Johnson, a veteran of the CIA and the State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism, argued that Russian forces had reached the outskirts of the capital with extraordinary speed and that, within the first day of the conflict, Russian forces wiped out all Ukrainian Ground Radar Intercept capabilities and thereby deprived the Ukrainian Air Force of its ability to do air to air intercept.

"Five weeks after Russia launched its invasion, Lt. Gen Prakash Katoch, a retired special forces officer from the Indian military, authored an article entitled 'America’s Information War is Self-Delusional.'

"In it, Katoch argued that Russia was winning the war decisively. 'The West doesn’t need state media,' he wrote, 'it has corporations that own both the state and the media; much more potent and dangerous who together are blowing Biden’s trumpet.'"

You decapitate government and have military fold.

See Afghanistan. They had way more soldiers and hardware than Taliban, but because their leadership was chicken shit and they didn't believe in their country, Taliban rolled them over.

Putin was clearly misinformed about Ukraine, their belief in their state and the resolve of their leadership.

 

[AntonToo]

How do US incarceration rates compare with Russian?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate#:~:text=State%20and%20federal%20prison%20and,percent%20of%20the%20world's%20prisoners.

Moron just because our justice system sends people to jail for law breaking, does not mean we don't have freedom of speech and fair political process.

How desparate do you have to be to even suggest that bullshit?

 

[gipper]

How do you capture a city of 3 million defended by 60,000 military professionals with an invasion force of 40,000?

One moment, please...

"Larry C. Johnson, a veteran of the CIA and the State Department’s Office of Counter Terrorism, argued that Russian forces had reached the outskirts of the capital with extraordinary speed and that, within the first day of the conflict, Russian forces wiped out all Ukrainian Ground Radar Intercept capabilities and thereby deprived the Ukrainian Air Force of its ability to do air to air intercept.

"Five weeks after Russia launched its invasion, Lt. Gen Prakash Katoch, a retired special forces officer from the Indian military, authored an article entitled 'America’s Information War is Self-Delusional.'

"In it, Katoch argued that Russia was winning the war decisively. 'The West doesn’t need state media,' he wrote, 'it has corporations that own both the state and the media; much more potent and dangerous who together are blowing Biden’s trumpet.'"

Interesting column by Lt Gen Prakash Katoch. He makes a few statements here that most Americans know nothing about, thanks to their corrupt media and government.


given that the US record of butchery around the world over the last decades is well documented. In Serbia alone, the US-NATO dropped 15 tons of depleted uranium bombs which catapulted Serbia to number one in cancer patients in Europe, which is why despite a population of 84.6 percent Orthodox Christians Serbia vowed not to join NATO.

Earlier, Ritter had exposed the 13 Pentagon-funded bio-labs in Ukraine plus the CIA and MI6 training neo-Nazis in Azov. Interestingly, on March 12 when Spitter revealed the bio-labs, a bot with over 2,72,546 edits attacked it in 24 hours from the same IP.

But the truth can hardly be hidden. The 2005 agreement between the US Department of Defence and Ukraine’s Ministry of Health came to light with US-funded bio-labs developing and storing dangerous pathogens in multiple centralized bio-labs in Ukraine. This was followed by another revelation that the Pentagon has been funding bio-labs in 25 countries for similarly developing and storing dangerous pathogens.

The US and UK did carryout a false flag chemical attack not only in Syria but many countries. William Blum, US historian who has worked in the US State Department, has been quoted in these columns earlier who wrote, “Since 1945, the US has tried to overthrow more than 50 governments, many of them democratically elected; grossly interfered in 30 countries; bombed the civilian population of 30 countries; interfered in elections in 30 countries; used chemical and biological weapons; and attempted t ..

Read more at:
America’s Information War is Self Delusional - Indian Defence Review

 

[Redfish]

Bullshit.

It ranks 122/180, thats bellow average but certainly not one of the most corrupt.

2021 Corruption Perceptions Index - Explore Ukraineâs results

How does Ukraine measure up in the 2021 Corruption Perceptions Index?

www.transparency.org

You can also note significant improvement since 2014.

Is it corrupt when the kids of US politicians are being paid obscene amounts of money to hold fake seats on a Ukrainian gas company? Biden, Pelosi, Kerry, and Romney, look it up. or is bribery not corruption in your small mind?

 

[Ringo]

Biden, Pelosi, Kerry, and Romney, look it up. or is bribery not corruption in your small mind?

A former piano player with his penis, and now the president of Ukraine has more than a billion in his foreign accounts. All this money, of course, is earned by honest work on the piano.

 

[AntonToo]

Is it corrupt when the kids of US politicians are being paid obscene amounts of money to hold fake seats on a Ukrainian gas company? Biden, Pelosi, Kerry, and Romney, look it up. or is bribery not corruption in your small mind?

Pure stupidity.

Even without questioning your baselss accusations, Ukranian companies supposedly paying off American politicians would indicate AMERICAN corruption, not Ukranian.