Jesus was right, of course.

[K9Buck]

Born into sin...actually is talking about being born into a body of flesh which is sinful by nature. There are no original scriptures that state "born into sin" that is a precept of people who haven't reached a level of maturity in the spirit enough to understand the spirit.

Sounds like god is conflicted. He creates us, and puts us into a "body of flesh that is sinful by nature". First of all, why in the hell would he do that? Second, what is so sinful about the flesh? Does god have some sort of sexual hangup?

We were created without sin. Sin first happened when Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

You have GOT to be shitting me!

It's in the Bible. Have you ever read it? Considering all the stupid questions you've been asking I'm guessing you haven't. You are making statements about something you don't know anything about. That makes you a fool.

Wrong again. I've read the Bible cover to cover three times. Then I put it down and studied the source of the material therein, including the books that were discarded by the church when the Bible was first codified. Then, I moved on to Dr. Seuss.

You and I may have different beliefs, but I appreciate that you're able to discuss the topic in a friendly manner.

 

[K9Buck]

I have. Even if they're true, who or what made the initial push to get it all started? There had to be a creator. There's no getting around it.

And I ask again. Who created god?

He has always existed. You can dismiss that, but then you're to believe that, the universe created itself and that life came from nowhere.

Totally untrue. I believe that the universe has always been there, just like you believe that god has always been there. My belief is not any weirder than yours.

There is evidence to suggest the universe had a beginning. There is no evidence to suggest that it expands, retracts and then repeats the process nor is there evidence of a multiverse.

Let me ask you another question. Why don't you believe any of the NDE accounts that are so pervasive?

In my opinion, NDE experiences are no more that oxygen deprived hallucinations in the brain. BTW, Millions have seen ghosts. I don't believe in them, either.

The universe as we know it began with a big bang, The does not necessary include the greater cosmos from which it sprang.

Have you ever heard of Eben Alexander? He was a neurosurgeon and an atheist. One day he became very ill and, he says, he went to Heaven. Ever heard of him?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Read up on String Theory. It calls for 11 dimensions, and an infinite number of universes, all in the process of dying and creating one another, into infinity..

I have. Even if they're true, who or what made the initial push to get it all started? There had to be a creator. There's no getting around it.

And I ask again. Who created god?

Creation, the process of creation, the cycles of creation, with God in it is the question. This is not a sales competition where your opponent's name is more important than what is done.

The source material that Christianity is based on is solely the Bible, which I find every bit as credible as the book of Mormon, and Dianetics.

Did those publications predict that Jesus and Christians would be hated in the end times? Jesus' prophecy on that is spot-on and it was made 2,000 years ago. The bible also predicted that the ancient nation-state of Israel would be re-born...and it came to fruition. The bible also correctly stated that the universe (the heavens) were EXPANDING and mankind didn't reach this conclusion until when, the 1800's? The Catholic Church was founded upon the apostle Peter and its alive and well today!

I predict that prices will rise, false prophets will speak, war and rumors of war will be pervasive, and that some day, there will be mass death, wailing, rending of garments,and gnashing of teeth

 

[Vandalshandle]

And I ask again. Who created god?

He has always existed. You can dismiss that, but then you're to believe that, the universe created itself and that life came from nowhere.

Totally untrue. I believe that the universe has always been there, just like you believe that god has always been there. My belief is not any weirder than yours.

There is evidence to suggest the universe had a beginning. There is no evidence to suggest that it expands, retracts and then repeats the process nor is there evidence of a multiverse.

Let me ask you another question. Why don't you believe any of the NDE accounts that are so pervasive?

In my opinion, NDE experiences are no more that oxygen deprived hallucinations in the brain. BTW, Millions have seen ghosts. I don't believe in them, either.

The universe as we know it began with a big bang, The does not necessary include the greater cosmos from which it sprang.

Have you ever heard of Eben Alexander? He was a neurosurgeon and an atheist. One day he became very ill and, he says, he went to Heaven. Ever heard of him?

No, but (and this is a true story) My grandmother once prayed that it would not rain, because she had to go shopping and had lost her umbrella. it did not rain. As soon as she got home, she sent a check to Oral Roberts, because he had predicted that god was pleased with those who offer "seed money", and she felt like she owed him. After all, she had just had her hair done the day before.

 

[K9Buck]

I have. Even if they're true, who or what made the initial push to get it all started? There had to be a creator. There's no getting around it.

And I ask again. Who created god?

Creation, the process of creation, the cycles of creation, with God in it is the question. This is not a sales competition where your opponent's name is more important than what is done.

The source material that Christianity is based on is solely the Bible, which I find every bit as credible as the book of Mormon, and Dianetics.

Did those publications predict that Jesus and Christians would be hated in the end times? Jesus' prophecy on that is spot-on and it was made 2,000 years ago. The bible also predicted that the ancient nation-state of Israel would be re-born...and it came to fruition. The bible also correctly stated that the universe (the heavens) were EXPANDING and mankind didn't reach this conclusion until when, the 1800's? The Catholic Church was founded upon the apostle Peter and its alive and well today!

I predict that prices will rise, false prophets will speak, war and rumors of war will be pervasive, and that some day, there will be mass death, wailing, rending of garments,and gnashing of teeth

Like you, he was once an atheist. He contracted bacterial meningitis and had no brain function. Nevertheless, he experienced Heaven and it changed him 180 degrees.

 

[RWNJ]

How many years have people been greedy, killing, maiming and stealing from one another? If we live to merely the flesh in our own pleasures we have little regard for the spiritual damage we can cause one another. It degrades not only the eternal soul but also damages that love one another portion if we cannot find the spirit of God to help guide us.

So, without god, you would revert to depravity and immorality? How sad.

How many years have people been greedy, killing, maiming and stealing from one another? If we live to merely the flesh in our own pleasures we have little regard for the spiritual damage we can cause one another. It degrades not only the eternal soul but also damages that love one another portion if we cannot find the spirit of God to help guide us.

So, without god, you would revert to depravity and immorality? How sad.

Morality comes from God and each of us seem to have an innate knowledge of such. A lack of morality is how we got abortion.

Well, since I remember when abortion was illegal, and doctors did D&C's instead, did that work better for you and god?

I presume you would have opposed your own abortion, but not someone else's.

The enlightened, tolerant, inclusive, loving-left brought us the concept and the practice of killing one's offspring. Unbelievable.

i believe that you do not have a right to legislate what my wife and my daughter can do with their own body.

They can't. But a fetus is not a part of their bodies. It is a separate life, with it's own blood type, it's own DNA. It is alive by every medical definition. Who are YOU to decide if it lives or dies? Every last person who has had or performs an abortion will burn in Hell.

 

[RWNJ]

Born into sin...actually is talking about being born into a body of flesh which is sinful by nature. There are no original scriptures that state "born into sin" that is a precept of people who haven't reached a level of maturity in the spirit enough to understand the spirit.

Sounds like god is conflicted. He creates us, and puts us into a "body of flesh that is sinful by nature". First of all, why in the hell would he do that? Second, what is so sinful about the flesh? Does god have some sort of sexual hangup?

We were created without sin. Sin first happened when Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

You have GOT to be shitting me!

It's in the Bible. Have you ever read it? Considering all the stupid questions you've been asking I'm guessing you haven't. You are making statements about something you don't know anything about. That makes you a fool.

Wrong again. I've read the Bible cover to cover three times. Then I put it down and studied the source of the material therein, including the books that were discarded by the church when the Bible was first codified. Then, I moved on to Dr. Seuss.

The nice thing about the internet is that you can say anything about yourself. Doesn't make it true. Even if you had read the Bible, you did not understand it. Or maybe you did. Maybe that's why you reject it. It convicted you of your sin, which you refuse to give up. You know God exists. You simply reject Him. You're just like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. They saw him perform miracles and they still rejected Him. I might be able to drum up some sympathy for someone who never heard the Gospel message and dies without Christ. But you have been inundated with it, and you just dig in your heels, like a stubborn mule. You have heard the Word and you still refuse to give God his due. Maybe there is still hope for you. Maybe, somehow, you can fid the humility to accept that you just aren't good enough and need Jesus to forgive you and make you new.

 

[K9Buck]

Somehow I missed that post wherein vandal wrote:

i believe that you do not have a right to legislate what my wife and my daughter can do with their own body.

I have a serious question for you. Can you imagine everything your daughter and your family would have missed if your wife had aborted your daughter? I'm sure you find the thought of such as abhorrent. So why then do you support aborting others?

If a woman engages in sex and creates a new life, she is morally obligated to see through to birth. Then, she can put the baby up for adoption.

 

[Vandalshandle]

So, without god, you would revert to depravity and immorality? How sad.

So, without god, you would revert to depravity and immorality? How sad.

Morality comes from God and each of us seem to have an innate knowledge of such. A lack of morality is how we got abortion.

Well, since I remember when abortion was illegal, and doctors did D&C's instead, did that work better for you and god?

I presume you would have opposed your own abortion, but not someone else's.

The enlightened, tolerant, inclusive, loving-left brought us the concept and the practice of killing one's offspring. Unbelievable.

i believe that you do not have a right to legislate what my wife and my daughter can do with their own body.

They can't. But a fetus is not a part of their bodies. It is a separate life, with it's own blood type, it's own DNA. It is alive by every medical definition. Who are YOU to decide if it lives or dies? Every last person who has had or performs an abortion will burn in Hell.

A fetus is not a person. In addition, abortion is only legal during a period of time in which the fetus would never survive on it's own. Even I do not have a right to tell someone to get an abortion. But, you have no right to tell my wife and daughter that they can not.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Ok, I understand. I incurred debt to god from the day I am born due to god's failure to make me the way he wanted me, and will therefore spend eternity in agony to make up his his errors. Wow! that makes sense! However, it seems kind of harsh for god to be pissed off at something I did on my first birthday. He is going to kill me anyway. isn't that enough for him?

No because you are not the way that God wanted you to be when you were born or any other time.

Sounds like god screwed up, then. Then again, that isn't very surprising. Every living thing he ever created ends up dead.

Blaming God based on your own ideas can carry no objectivity, hence it is warned against in the Bible as well as in scientific reasoning. It is like blaming your car for the crash that you cause.

Yet, I am still completely amazed that you believe that an innocent child is already in need of redemption for sin. That makes no sense at all.

I'm probably wasting my time because I suspect you're one of those that thinks the universe came from nothing and that life created itself. We are all imperfect and born with the affliction of sin. We will be cured and purified of that sin before entering Jesus' kingdom.

K9Buck

Vandalshandle is right.

Of all the screwy beliefs, that's got to be the most repugnant and evil.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Sounds like god is conflicted. He creates us, and puts us into a "body of flesh that is sinful by nature". First of all, why in the hell would he do that? Second, what is so sinful about the flesh? Does god have some sort of sexual hangup?

We were created without sin. Sin first happened when Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

You have GOT to be shitting me!

It's in the Bible. Have you ever read it? Considering all the stupid questions you've been asking I'm guessing you haven't. You are making statements about something you don't know anything about. That makes you a fool.

Wrong again. I've read the Bible cover to cover three times. Then I put it down and studied the source of the material therein, including the books that were discarded by the church when the Bible was first codified. Then, I moved on to Dr. Seuss.

The nice thing about the internet is that you can say anything about yourself. Doesn't make it true. Even if you had read the Bible, you did not understand it. Or maybe you did. Maybe that's why you reject it. It convicted you of your sin, which you refuse to give up. You know God exists. You simply reject Him. You're just like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. They saw him perform miracles and they still rejected Him. I might be able to drum up some sympathy for someone who never heard the Gospel message and dies without Christ. But you have been inundated with it, and you just dig in your heels, like a stubborn mule. You have heard the Word and you still refuse to give God his due. Maybe there is still hope for you. Maybe, somehow, you can fid the humility to accept that you just aren't good enough and need Jesus to forgive you and make you new.

Nice try, RW, but no cigar. i not only do not believe in god, i am absolutely sure of it, and find it difficult to understand why anyone does. I do grant that, to some, their faith is comforting. But, that has nothing to do with me.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Somehow I missed that post wherein vandal wrote:

i believe that you do not have a right to legislate what my wife and my daughter can do with their own body.

I have a serious question for you. Can you imagine everything your daughter and your family would have missed if your wife had aborted your daughter? I'm sure you find the thought of such as abhorrent. So why then do you support aborting others?

If a woman engages in sex and creates a new life, she is morally obligated to see through to birth. Then, she can put the baby up for adoption.

Every single woman who has lost a child thinks about that.

Doesn't change the fact that its her decision to make. Not yours.

MYOB

 

[RWNJ]

We were created without sin. Sin first happened when Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

You have GOT to be shitting me!

It's in the Bible. Have you ever read it? Considering all the stupid questions you've been asking I'm guessing you haven't. You are making statements about something you don't know anything about. That makes you a fool.

Wrong again. I've read the Bible cover to cover three times. Then I put it down and studied the source of the material therein, including the books that were discarded by the church when the Bible was first codified. Then, I moved on to Dr. Seuss.

The nice thing about the internet is that you can say anything about yourself. Doesn't make it true. Even if you had read the Bible, you did not understand it. Or maybe you did. Maybe that's why you reject it. It convicted you of your sin, which you refuse to give up. You know God exists. You simply reject Him. You're just like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. They saw him perform miracles and they still rejected Him. I might be able to drum up some sympathy for someone who never heard the Gospel message and dies without Christ. But you have been inundated with it, and you just dig in your heels, like a stubborn mule. You have heard the Word and you still refuse to give God his due. Maybe there is still hope for you. Maybe, somehow, you can fid the humility to accept that you just aren't good enough and need Jesus to forgive you and make you new.

Nice try, RW, but no cigar. i not only do not believe in god, i am absolutely sure of it, and find it difficult to understand why anyone does. I do grant that, to some, their faith is comforting. But, that has nothing to do with me.

The fool says there is no God. You'll learn the truth some day. But it will probably be too late. Your unbelief does not change the fact of the existence of God. "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an Angry God" Sucks to be you. And it will suck a whole lot more after you die. You poor fool.

 

[Vandalshandle]

You have GOT to be shitting me!

It's in the Bible. Have you ever read it? Considering all the stupid questions you've been asking I'm guessing you haven't. You are making statements about something you don't know anything about. That makes you a fool.

Wrong again. I've read the Bible cover to cover three times. Then I put it down and studied the source of the material therein, including the books that were discarded by the church when the Bible was first codified. Then, I moved on to Dr. Seuss.

The nice thing about the internet is that you can say anything about yourself. Doesn't make it true. Even if you had read the Bible, you did not understand it. Or maybe you did. Maybe that's why you reject it. It convicted you of your sin, which you refuse to give up. You know God exists. You simply reject Him. You're just like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. They saw him perform miracles and they still rejected Him. I might be able to drum up some sympathy for someone who never heard the Gospel message and dies without Christ. But you have been inundated with it, and you just dig in your heels, like a stubborn mule. You have heard the Word and you still refuse to give God his due. Maybe there is still hope for you. Maybe, somehow, you can fid the humility to accept that you just aren't good enough and need Jesus to forgive you and make you new.

Nice try, RW, but no cigar. i not only do not believe in god, i am absolutely sure of it, and find it difficult to understand why anyone does. I do grant that, to some, their faith is comforting. But, that has nothing to do with me.

The fool says there is no God. You'll learn the truth some day. But it will probably be too late. Your unbelief does not change the fact of the existence of God. "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an Angry God" Sucks to be you. And it will suck a whole lot more after you die. You poor fool.

Many people live in fear, RW, including you.

I don't.

 

[sealybobo]

Jesus said "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

There is no shortage of soulless atheists here and elsewhere that hate Jesus and those that believe in him. Another prophecy fulfilled.

No one hates Jesus. We just believe his story has been embellished like Mohammed

Miracles of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad are a number of supernatural occurrences, which according to Islamic tradition were made by Muhammad during his lifetime. These miracles are shown either in the Qur'an or, in the vast majority of cases, in the hadith (traditions of Muhammad). Muhammad's miracles encompass a broad range, such as the multiplication of food, manifestation of water, hidden knowledge, prophesies, healing, punishment, and power over nature.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Somehow I missed that post wherein vandal wrote:

i believe that you do not have a right to legislate what my wife and my daughter can do with their own body.

I have a serious question for you. Can you imagine everything your daughter and your family would have missed if your wife had aborted your daughter? I'm sure you find the thought of such as abhorrent. So why then do you support aborting others?

If a woman engages in sex and creates a new life, she is morally obligated to see through to birth. Then, she can put the baby up for adoption.

I don't "support aborting others". I support freedom of choice regarding our own bodies. That makes me consistent in that I also oppose laws against assisted suicides. If my wife had aborted my daughter, I would have divorced her, but I would not seek criminal charges against her.

 

[sealybobo]

You have GOT to be shitting me!

It's in the Bible. Have you ever read it? Considering all the stupid questions you've been asking I'm guessing you haven't. You are making statements about something you don't know anything about. That makes you a fool.

Wrong again. I've read the Bible cover to cover three times. Then I put it down and studied the source of the material therein, including the books that were discarded by the church when the Bible was first codified. Then, I moved on to Dr. Seuss.

The nice thing about the internet is that you can say anything about yourself. Doesn't make it true. Even if you had read the Bible, you did not understand it. Or maybe you did. Maybe that's why you reject it. It convicted you of your sin, which you refuse to give up. You know God exists. You simply reject Him. You're just like the Pharisees of Jesus' time. They saw him perform miracles and they still rejected Him. I might be able to drum up some sympathy for someone who never heard the Gospel message and dies without Christ. But you have been inundated with it, and you just dig in your heels, like a stubborn mule. You have heard the Word and you still refuse to give God his due. Maybe there is still hope for you. Maybe, somehow, you can fid the humility to accept that you just aren't good enough and need Jesus to forgive you and make you new.

Nice try, RW, but no cigar. i not only do not believe in god, i am absolutely sure of it, and find it difficult to understand why anyone does. I do grant that, to some, their faith is comforting. But, that has nothing to do with me.

The fool says there is no God. You'll learn the truth some day. But it will probably be too late. Your unbelief does not change the fact of the existence of God. "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an Angry God" Sucks to be you. And it will suck a whole lot more after you die. You poor fool.

Is that all you got? An attempt to scare us into believing? What a weak religion you have if you have to resort to scaring people into listening to you. The more you do that though the more I am sure your religion is a joke.

 

[anotherlife]

Blaming God based on your own ideas can carry no objectivity, hence it is warned against in the Bible as well as in scientific reasoning. It is like blaming your car for the crash that you cause.

Yet, I am still completely amazed that you believe that an innocent child is already in need of redemption for sin. That makes no sense at all.

What makes you think that a child is innocent? Who wrote that and where? At best it is an assumption. And a very weak one at that, as soon as you look what children usually do to each other. Nobody is innocent. You are only innocent if Christ says so. Assumption debunked.

What sin has any one year old child ever committed, that Jesus did not commit?

This is immaterial because you cannot say to even human courts that you should be pardoned because your neighbor did the same. The problem of sin remains, regardless.

Fortunately for all of us, Canon Law was abandoned after the Middle Ages, or the church would still be turning witches over to the state to burn for heresy. mankind realized hundreds of years ago that the church's definition of "sin" was arbitrary, and lacked even common sense.

The Biblical definition of sin as everyone is born with, is not affected by the church politicizing it and making whitch trials out of it. Modern criminal law is politicized too and therefore made quite arbitrary.

 

[anotherlife]

The expansion of the universe and the "big bang" point to a beginning. We also know that matter cannot create itself nor can it reproduce.

And, for me, there is a plethora of anecdotal evidence of a creator, of Jesus and an afterlife. Gravitational force, the expansion rate of the universe and a host of other particulars that are just right and if any of them were altered by a pittance, we couldn't exist. Seemingly countless people have shared their NDE's and I believe some of them.

Read up on String Theory. It calls for 11 dimensions, and an infinite number of universes, all in the process of dying and creating one another, into infinity..

I have. Even if they're true, who or what made the initial push to get it all started? There had to be a creator. There's no getting around it.

And I ask again. Who created god?

Creation, the process of creation, the cycles of creation, with God in it is the question. This is not a sales competition where your opponent's name is more important than what is done.

The source material that Christianity is based on is solely the Bible, which I find every bit as credible as the book of Mormon, and Dianetics.

Christianity share many aspects with Buddhism.

Also, remarkedly, Buddhism is the only religion that has any kind of accuracy in timing the beginning of the universe. Buddhism's accuracy is ~ 50 %, remarkable, no other religion comes even close.

 

[anotherlife]

No because you are not the way that God wanted you to be when you were born or any other time.

Sounds like god screwed up, then. Then again, that isn't very surprising. Every living thing he ever created ends up dead.

Blaming God based on your own ideas can carry no objectivity, hence it is warned against in the Bible as well as in scientific reasoning. It is like blaming your car for the crash that you cause.

Yet, I am still completely amazed that you believe that an innocent child is already in need of redemption for sin. That makes no sense at all.

I'm probably wasting my time because I suspect you're one of those that thinks the universe came from nothing and that life created itself. We are all imperfect and born with the affliction of sin. We will be cured and purified of that sin before entering Jesus' kingdom.

K9Buck

Vandalshandle is right.

Of all the screwy beliefs, that's got to be the most repugnant and evil.

Repugnant? Unfortunately also logical and even correct.