Jodi Arias Penalty

[A_LittleFeisty]

I thought for a long time about the Mormon vs. sex thing. Most religions consider sex before marriage a sin, not only Mormons. They just put a name on it so it sounds that much more forbidden. Devout followers of whatever religion don't set out to deliberately defy the teachings of their faith yet many do succumb to temptation. The flesh is weak. And I have a feeling that as many Mormons are breaking the Law of Chastity as there are Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, and those of every other religion breaking their own teachings of remaining celibate until marriage.

So, I think T-Dogg was a Horn Dog and, believe me, I say that affectionately because I feel responsible consensual sex is a normal human activity, especially with those the age of Travis and Arias. It is not respectful of their religion, but it is understandable. Personally I would rather have 25-30+ YOs have safe consensual sex than I would have them remain chaste and rush into marriage too soon just because they have sexual urges they want to satisfy.

It is the temptation we can all thank Adam and Eve for. They were the first to take the bite of the forbidden fruit.

 

[Tink]

To each his own Feisty..
I don't believe that but you are entitled to.

 

[A_LittleFeisty]

To each his own Feisty..
I don't believe that but you are entitled to.

I love your new pic.

 

[Tink]

Thanks I'm trying to think of a new signature...

 

[A_LittleFeisty]

Thanks I'm trying to think of a new signature...

Do you want a pic? I could help you find one.

 

[Tink]

I gotta think about it some more I put this up in the mean time

 

[SantaFeWay]

Santa,
I agree with all of this but one small thing the difference isn't solely that they put a name on it. It's the emphasis it plays in the religion and the fact that it is one of the worst sins you can commit in that religion. Yes most religions say it's a sin but they don't equate it to say murder ( except for maybe islam). Also mormons its not just sex they aren't allowed it's anything that could lead to it. They technically are at risk with anything beyond making out. I've heard that at BYU they have make out parties or something silly like that. I agree with you that I'd prefer for people to be having safe consensual sex than rush into marriage.

On another note, I really don't understand how anyone can claim to know what TA's personality was and what is or isn't in character for him because we don't know him. And he was a multifaceted individual based on what we have been shown. To say having sex with JA shortly after meeting her was against his religious beliefs and not part of his personality just doesn't make sense. Even those closest to him didn't know about his sexual history (and rightly so because some things are private) but if they didn't know we certainly can't claim to or attribute things to him. In fact if anything the most evidence presented about his personality does fit with what you termed "horn-dogg"

Well, I don't know about Mormons equating premarital sex with murder but teaching that anything more than kissing can lead to more and more sexual intimacy is correct, IMO. We all know this is true so I don't doubt part of the teaching would include the avoidance of any activity that would create those sexual feelings. They are powerful and difficult to overcome so don't tempt yourselves. That sounds about right.

I surely did not know Travis but I wanted to think a little more about this aspect of Mormonism because the "dirty little secret" comment and the large part that "secrecy" played in the defense case. Was there any truth to it? And I don't believe there was. I don't think Travis was having any more sex than his Mormon peers with comparable game. I think he didn't kiss and tell. I think he was respectful of the ladies in his life. His close friends say they knew he was sexually active but they didn't openly discuss it. So I don't know for sure, but I base my opinion of him by what those who did know him have said.

I think we agree.

PS Arias was no lady.

 

[Tink]

Mimi hall testified that on the heirachy of sins in the mormon church it was one of the biggest sins you could commit. Deanna also said that if the bishop had known he was doing it again he would have faced excommunication from the church.
What close friends have you heard say they knew he was sexually active where? Everyone I heard except for Deanna said they thought he was a virgin.

 

[Tink]

Here's a forum that's discussing how sexual sins are next to murder in the mormon church

 

[chaines]

at what point did this trial turn from being about a messed up female murdering her also sex-obsessed ex bf and into one about good vs evil. As the trial progressed, Travis was built up to be such a great person who could do no wrong and Jodi was evil personified....

 

[A_LittleFeisty]

I gotta think about it some more I put this up in the mean time

Tink try this one if you like

 

[A_LittleFeisty]

at what point did this trial turn from being about a messed up female murdering her also sex-obsessed ex bf and into one about good vs evil. As the trial progressed, Travis was built up to be such a great person who could do no wrong and Jodi was evil personified....

Welcome Chaines missed you.

 

[Tink]

I gotta think about it some more I put this up in the mean time

Tink try this one if you like

There's no pic there

 

[A_LittleFeisty]

I gotta think about it some more I put this up in the mean time

Tink try this one if you like

There's no pic there

OMG were did it go it was a pic of Pinocchio and Jimminy Cricket.

 

[Tink]

at what point did this trial turn from being about a messed up female murdering her also sex-obsessed ex bf and into one about good vs evil. As the trial progressed, Travis was built up to be such a great person who could do no wrong and Jodi was evil personified....

Very good point Cam. The problem I have is that everyone in this trial is painted as a one dimensional character in a poorly written story. People aren't like that. We are all multifaceted and have many parts that make up our whole person.

 

[SantaFeWay]

Mimi hall testified that on the heirachy of sins in the mormon church it was one of the biggest sins you could commit. Deanna also said that if the bishop had known he was doing it again he would have faced excommunication from the church.
What close friends have you heard say they knew he was sexually active where? Everyone I heard except for Deanna said they thought he was a virgin.

I know the defense dubbed Mimi as the spokesperson for the Mormon faith. She was born into it, unlike Travis, and she was extremely knowledgable so I take her word for that. I don't remember Deanna saying what the punishment would be for repeated offenses but I'm sure he could have worked his way back into the good graces of the Church if he wanted to. Not Mormon so not sure. I'm not saying Travis was the world's best Mormon. But I don't recall anyone saying Travis ever claimed he was the world's best Mormon either. I'm sure his faith was important to him but the truth is we really don't know how important it really was.

Chris and Sky Hughes, the other Hughes brothers, Dave Hall, and other friends have been interviewed since the trial began and stated that they knew for sure Travis and Arias were having sex because of the way she behaved with him, and that they knew Travis was not a virgin although the particulars were not a subject of conversation. My impression was that it was an unspoken truth and not a big shocker/big deal. Seemed sort of ho-hum, of course type of thing to me. Who knows? Deanna also said that when people insinuated to Travis that he was still a virgin he let them go with that impression and never corrected them. I don't have a problem with that. I don't take it as if it was some huge secret, just that it was personal.

 

[A_LittleFeisty]

Let me see if this will take this is my grand son's favorite

.

 

[Tink]

Hmm I do vaguely remember that about Chris and Sky now that you mention it. Me personally I don't find it to be a big deal I think we agree on that. But it is a big deal in the mormon faith is the only point I am trying to convey. Once you are excommunicated I'm pretty sure you can't be let back in but I'm not mormon so I can't be certain I'll have to check into it. I think you are allowed to go to the service but you are not allowed at other functions and lose temple priveledges and are considered to be going to outer darkness. Actually JA may have threatened to out this about him which could be the reason for the angry text (I'm just speculating here). Anyway, I agree with you that for you or I it's no big deal. But I disagree with you on the perspective that it wasn't a big secret because it is a huge deal in the context of their religion and their lives.

 

[SantaFeWay]

You guys are right. Too much speculation leading nowhere cuz we really do not know any of these people. I'm done for now. Goodnight everyone...great discussion! Until tomorrow morning...

 

[Tink]

Feisty don't worry much about the pic no big deal but I appreciate it. You got any input on the sex topic?