Judge orders Trump to pay nearly $355 million in civil fraud trial

[WorldWatcher]

Once he pays the judgement there will be no problem with him setting up a new business and shifting any remaining assets.

Moving states as a way to try to get out of the judgement won’t work though.

WW

I’m not suggesting that, the appeals process will decide that.

Seemed like you were.

So OK, we now have various conditions, under which Trump is perfectly free to setup a business in another state:

#1 He accepts the loss, pays the judgement and moves to another state.

#2 He decides to appeal. Therefore he comes up with the full amount (plus around 10%) as an escrow or bond and proceeds with the appeal. If he fully wins the appeal he gets control of his New York Company back, gets the money back, and is free to move the assets out of state.

#3 He decides to appeal. Therefore he comes up with the full amount (plus around 10%) as an escrow or bond and proceeds with the appeal. If he loses the appeal he the court ordered monitors stays in place, New York gets the escrow/bond, and he is still free to move any remaining assets out of state.

Once the judgement is (a) overturned or (b) liquidated there are no restrictions on him moving his business elsewhere.

WW

 

[forkup]

You think the amount of the judgement is justified given the lack of harm done to anyone and given the FACT that the bank in question said they wanted to do business with Trump again? Why not make the damages 1 billion? Why not 2? Why not just seize all of his assets? All sane people know that this judgement and the damages awarded were absurd. NYC courts are a complete laughing stock to all except hard-core lefties who are ok with using the courts to push their agenda. Business will take note.

The amount of damages reflects the calculation of what his interests rates would have been without him serving a personal guarantee based on fraudulent FCC'S. So yes. Paying the amount you got from your fraud sounds reasonable.

The reason it's not 1 billion or 2 billion is because that would not be consistent with that.

As for business taking note. I hope so. Accurate financial statements are not optional. They're a requirement for an honest marketplace. The REPUBLICANS who actually passed this statute thought so. Why don't you?

 

[SeaMajor7]

Seemed like you were.

So OK, we now have various conditions, under which Trump is perfectly free to setup a business in another state:

#1 He accepts the loss, pays the judgement and moves to another state.

#2 He decides to appeal. Therefore he comes up with the full amount (plus around 10%) as an escrow or bond and proceeds with the appeal. If he fully wins the appeal he gets control of his New York Company back, gets the money back, and is free to move the assets out of state.

#3 He decides to appeal. Therefore he comes up with the full amount (plus around 10%) as an escrow or bond and proceeds with the appeal. If he loses the appeal he the court ordered monitors stays in place, New York gets the escrow/bond, and he is still free to move any remaining assets out of state.

Once the judgement is (a) overturned or (b) liquidated there are no restrictions on him moving his business elsewhere.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

I don't know the rules but I would think he could sell his business interest in New York. I think New York would be happy to get rid of him. They're going to be collecting property taxes and income taxes on whoever owns the properties. Having to deal with someone who doesn't pride themselves on their dishonesty and illegal acts would certainly be welcome.

He could. The monitor is there for two reasons:

• To ensure the present and future business transactions happen legally,
• To ensure that the Trump Organization does not attempt to hide assets that could be used to liquidate the judgement.

He's fully capable (and the monitor nor court) would attempt to stop the Trump Organization from selling assets at fair market value, the proceeds of which would then be used to settle the judgement. They wouldn't block the Trump Organization from taking any remaining assets and leaving New York.

WW

 

[forkup]

After just about a CENTURY of Marxist infiltration into our Edu, Media, and Governance, we have come to a point that the aforementioned Democrat Party has taken up Soviet tactics to TRY to defeat their political opponents.
How did we get here???
Well, here's Uncle Yuri to explain....from 1985



Interviewer: The Soviets use the phase, “ideological subversion”. What do they mean by that?


Bezmenov: Ideological subversion is the process which is legitimate overt and open. You can see it with your own eyes. All you have to do, all the American mass media has to do is to unplug their bananas from their ears, open up their eyes and they can see. There’s no mystery. There’s nothing to do with espionage. I know espionage intelligence gathering looks more romantic, it sells more deodorants through their advertising, probably. That’s why your Hollywood producers are so crazy about James Bond type of thrillers. But in reality, the main emphasis of the KGB is not in the area of intelligence at all! According to my opinion, and the opinion of many defectors of my caliber, only about 15% of time, money and manpower is spent on espionage as such. The other 85% is a slow process which we call either ideological subversion or active measures, (2 Russian words, активные something, I couldn’t catch it) in the language of the KGB, or psychological warfare. What it basically means is, to change the perception of reality of every American to such as extent that in spite of the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community and their country.

It’s a great brainwashing process which goes very slow and is divided into four basic stages, the first one being demoralization. It takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years which is required to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy exposed to the ideology of your enemy. In other words, Marxism / Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least 3 generations of American students without being challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism, American patriotism.

The demoralization process in the United States is basically completed already, for the last 25 years, actually it’s over fulfilled because demoralization now reaches such areas where previously not even Comrade Andropov and all his experts would even dream of such a tremendous success. Most of it is being done by Americans to Americans thanks to a lack of moral standards. As I mentioned before, exposure to true information does not matter any more. A person who is demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him. Even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents, with pictures, even if I take him by force to the Soviet Union and show him a concentration camp, he will refuse to believe it until he’s going to receive a kick in his fat bottom. When a military boot crushes his balls, then he will understand, but not before that. That’s the tragedy of the situation of demoralization.

The next stage is destabilization. This time, the subverter does not care about your ideas and the patterns of your consumption, whether you eat junk food and get fat and flabby, it doesn’t matter anymore. This time, and it takes only from 2 to 5 years to destabilize a nation, what matters is essentials, the economy, foreign relations, defense systems. And you can see quite clearly that in some areas in such sensitive areas as defense and economy, the influence of Marxist / Leninist ideas in the United States is absolutely fantastic. I could never believe it 14 years ago when I landed in this part of the world that the process will go that fast.

The next stage of course is crisis. It may take only up to 6 weeks to bring a country up to the verge of crisis. You can see them in Central America now.

And after crisis, with a violent change of power, structure and economy, you have a period of so called normalization. It may last indefinitely. Normalization is a cynical expression born from Soviet propaganda. When the Soviet tanks moved into Czechoslovakia in ’68, Comrade Brezhnev said, “Now the situation in brotherly Czechoslovakia is normalized!” This is what will happen in the United States if you allow all these smucks to bring the country to crisis, to promise people all kind of goodies and a paradise on earth, to destabilize your economy, to eliminate the principle of free market competition, and to put a Big Brother government in Washington D.C. With benevolent dictators like Walter Mondale who will promise lots of things, never mind whether the promises are fulfilled or not.
______________________
And HERE WE ARE!!!
You, being a demented avenger subverted demoralized ZOMBIE, see no problem with the current Soviet LAWFARE tactics being used to disenfranchise over HALF of the American electorate.
Therefore, you can GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!

Funny I get my information from reading a judgement. If I found fault with it be sure it would have been more substantive than " you're a Stalinist piglet."

This is the thing. I look at the world how it is. So you will find me on this board sometimes saying shit that's against MY political and even egocentric interests. You will see me conceding points, apologize, reverse my position, attack actions of people of my political ideology. And even... God forbid... change my mind.

So take your little tropes elsewhere. They are ineffective.

 

[SeaMajor7]

He could. The monitor is there for two reasons:

• To ensure the present and future business transactions happen legally,
• To ensure that the Trump Organization does not attempt to hide assets that could be used to liquidate the judgement.

He's fully capable (and the monitor nor court) would attempt to stop the Trump Organization from selling assets at fair market value, the proceeds of which would then be used to settle the judgement. They wouldn't block the Trump Organization from taking any remaining assets and leaving New York.

WW

How Stalinist of you, pretzel bot.

 

[SeaMajor7]

Funny I get my information from reading a judgement. If I found fault with it be sure it would have been more substantive than " you're a Stalinist piglet."

This is the thing. I look at the world how it is. So you will find me on this board sometimes saying shit that's against MY political and even egocentric interests. You will see me conceding points, apologize, reverse my position, attack actions of people of my political ideology. And even... God forbid... change my mind.

So take your little tropes elsewhere. They are ineffective.

Reading and agreeing with the judgement from a demented LEFT Stalinist asshole judge apparently makes YOU a Stalinist Marxist Leninist zombie ASSHOLE too.
Way to go, slugger!

 

[forkup]

Reading and agreeing with the judgement from a demented LEFT Stalinist asshole judge apparently makes YOU a Stalinist Marxist Leninist zombie ASSHOLE too.
Way to go, slugger!

Again, you're piercing witt is hurting me to my core. Now where's my Whiskey so I can drown the hurt?

 

[SeaMajor7]

Again, you're piercing witt is hurting me to my core. Now where's my Whiskey so I can drown the hurt?

 

[DBA]

The amount of damages reflects the calculation of what his interests rates would have been without him serving a personal guarantee based on fraudulent FCC'S. So yes. Paying the amount you got from your fraud sounds reasonable.

The reason it's not 1 billion or 2 billion is because that would not be consistent with that.

As for business taking note. I hope so. Accurate financial statements are not optional. They're a requirement for an honest marketplace. The REPUBLICANS who actually passed this statute thought so. Why don't you?

Maybe we should revisit all loans, repaid or not, to see who may have over-valued their assets based on SOME appaisals and levy fines in arrears, plus interest? Why not? That would be the only way to apply equal justice. Do you think if Democrats were given the choice of doing this to Trump and applying this law equally to everyone, they would take it? The answer is absolutely no.

The bank in question didn’t complain about any lost interest because they wouldn’t have charged him more interest regardless. They WANTED the loan. He could have simply refused to give any valuation of his assets or valued them at $1 and they would have still given him the loans.

The purpose of the law was to protect people who are not equipped to protect themselves. Banks do not fall into this category.

 

[forkup]

Maybe we should revisit all loans, repaid or not, to see who may have over-valued their assets based on SOME appaisals and levy fines in arrears, plus interest? Why not? That would be the only way to apply equal justice. Do you think if Democrats were given the choice of doing this to Trump and applying this law equally to everyone, they would take it? The answer is absolutely no.

The bank in question didn’t complain about any lost interest because they wouldn’t have charged him more interest regardless. They WANTED the loan. He could have simply refused to give any valuation of his assets or valued them at $1 and they would have still given him the loans.

The purpose of the law was to protect people who are not equipped to protect themselves. Banks do not fall into this category.

And again the bank CUT ties once it was clear they were lied too. So did his bookkeeper. That's a pretty strong indicator they were displeased by the behavior.

 

[DBA]

And again the bank CUT ties once it was clear they were lied too. So did his bookkeeper. That's a pretty strong indicator they were displeased by the behavior.

Again, why not apply this law to everyone? Everyone that has ever gotten a loan should be investigated. Are you arguing that point?

 

[forkup]

Again, why not apply this law to everyone? Everyone that has ever gotten a loan should be investigated. Are you arguing that point?

No that would run counter the probable cause doctrine. In this case his trouble started because his lawyer and him were implicated in a tax evasion scheme. Giving probable cause. Prompting an investigation into the Trump organizations financial dealings. An investigation that led to a conviction for long term persistent fraudulent behavior.

You keep on putting up the strawman and false equivalency that "everybody lies about their property assessment (not true), therefore everybody who ever gets a loan should be investigated. Otherwise it's unfair."

First of all, it's an appeal to hypocrisy.

Second Trump didn't just exaggerate his property value on some type of subjective evaluation. He lied about the amount of properties he could build, lied about the size of his properties, state of the properties, building rights he had on properties, AND ignored actual property valuations, put his own value on it several orders of magnitude the valuations, and then claimed that that was the conclusion of the assessor. Those things are fraud and I dare you to claim otherwise or make any equivalency to Joe from down the street saying his property is worth 200k , instead of 190k.

 

[Redfish]

The court may adjust the fine, disagreeing with the lower courts interpretation of the law. And they may give trump more time to transfer the management of his New York businesses or they may even alter the ruling on monitoring but overturn the case, no. The evidence supported by 19 testimonies clearly showed that Trump did violate the law in many loan application between 2011 and 2021.

horseshit, there was no crime, no victims. The banks all testified that they were paid in full and wanted Trump as a long time client. no victim to crime. political attacks using the corrupt legal system in NY. The crooked DA and the pervert judge colluded in a politically motivated attack and will eventually be punished for their criminality.

 

[Redfish]

No that would run counter the probable cause doctrine. In this case his trouble started because his lawyer and him were implicated in a tax evasion scheme. Giving probable cause. Prompting an investigation into the Trump organizations financial dealings. An investigation that led to a conviction for long term persistent fraudulent behavior.

You keep on putting up the strawman that "everybody lies about their property assessment (not true), therefore everybody who ever gets a loan should be investigated. Otherwise it's unfair."

First of all, it's an appeal to hypocrisy.

Second Trump didn't just exaggerate his property value on some type of subjective evaluation. He lied about the amount of properties he could build, lied about the size of his properties, building rights he had on properties, AND ignored actual property valuations, put his own value on it several orders of magnitude the valuations, and then claimed that that was the conclusion of the assessor. Those things are fraud and I dare you to claim otherwise or make any equivalency to Joe from down the street saying his property is worth 200k , instead of 190k.

the banks making the loans testified that they did their due dilligence and were paid in full with interest for all loans. there was no victim and no crime.

 

[forkup]

the banks making the loans testified that they did their due dilligence and were paid in full with interest for all loans. there was no victim and no crime.

No they testified they were lied too. And we're payed in full on interest rates that was based on those lies being true.

I've directly quoted some of these testimonies in this OP.

 

[Redfish]

And again the bank CUT ties once it was clear they were lied too. So did his bookkeeper. That's a pretty strong indicator they were displeased by the behavior.

not true, the banks all testified that they were paid in full on time and considered Trump an outstanding customer. They were totally pleased with the transactions and did their due dilligence before making the loans. no victim, no crime. political bullshit, nothing more.

 

[Redfish]

No they testified they were lied too. And we're payed in full on interest rates that was based on those lies being true.

I've directly quoted some of these testimonies in this OP.

no, you quoted comments made by left wing media, which were lies.

 

[forkup]

not true, the banks all testified that they were paid in full on time and considered Trump an outstanding customer. They were totally pleased with the transactions and did their due dilligence before making the loans. no victim, no crime. political bullshit, nothing more.

Read the F...ing judgement.

 

[MagicMike]

There was no crime here…period.

You are wrong.
The judge disagrees with you and his is the only opinion that matters.
And no, an appellate court is not at all likely to overturn this case.
This is a done deal.
Shouldn't you MAGAt syncophants be moving on from this one and looking to next month's criminal trial?
That is the one that could potentially mean prison time for your hero.
He's going to need all your lame excuses and weak-assed defenses about how his guilty verdict in that trial is actually someone else's fault as well so you'd better get started early.