Judging Obama's Handling of the Budget and the Economy Fairly

[Toddsterpatriot]

To be to totally accurate, the Bush administration did not stop the then-existing policy of pressuring/enticing lenders into lowering credit standards.

There was no "then-existing policy" of lowering lending standards, Bush owns that himself, but you knew that already. Under Obama, borrowers had to be qualified, and had to have a downpayment. Bush made no downpayment loans for more than the house was worth to borrowers with bad credit who earned 20% less than the average income of the neighborhood they were buying into with his ADDI.

There was no "then-existing policy" of lowering lending standards,

Except for Clinton forcing the GSEs to make 50% of their mortgage purchases subprime.

Bullshit. While subprime loans were around for years, they weren’t a problem until about 2003...

By 2003, the GSEs had already bought over $1 trillion worth of subprime loans.

 

[Slade3200]

Where are your numbers Kaz? Show how Trump changed the game when it comes to unemployment

Why would I do that since I didn't claim that? I answered your question. Companies hire in anticipation of future projects. I didn't make a claim one way or the other regarding Trump

So when Trump takes credit for the amazing unemployment rates in 2017, you understand that he is full of shit right?

What about i didnt take a position on that dont you grasp?

Well take a position, it isn’t rocket science. It’s ok to call out the bullshit that comes from your side of the aisle. It might actually give you some credibility

libertarians have a side of the aisle now? Bam, cool!

Idiot

Dodging an answer then huh? Nice

 

[ptbw forever]

Psst do you know what debt is? The sum of annual deficits.

2009 budget submitted by Bush in 2008 had 1.3 Trillion dollar deficit...how exactly did Obama cause that???

He didn't. But you idiots keep saying W was responsible for 2001 which was Clinton's budget, W was responsible for the entire eight year Obama term and then Trump became responsible the day he took office so Obama wasn't ever responsible for anything

Bullshit.

Bush blew up the budget with tax-cuts, unpaid-for wars and Medicaid part B.

That’s without blaming him for Great Recession.

So medicare part D that was signed in 2003 and tax cuts in June, 2001 caused a recession that started in March, 2001. Got it.

Well, you're clear what you are

The recession started in 2001?
So we had 8 years of recession?
Really?

Wow you're stupid. There were two recessions.

Early 2000s recession - Wikipedia

Great Recession - Wikipedia

You didn't know that? Seriously? How old are you, 12? That would explain a lot, actually

Obama and the media didn't bother to tell him that.

 

[Faun]

To be to totally accurate, the Bush administration did not stop the then-existing policy of pressuring/enticing lenders into lowering credit standards.

There was no "then-existing policy" of lowering lending standards, Bush owns that himself, but you knew that already. Under Obama, borrowers had to be qualified, and had to have a downpayment. Bush made no downpayment loans for more than the house was worth to borrowers with bad credit who earned 20% less than the average income of the neighborhood they were buying into with his ADDI.

There was no "then-existing policy" of lowering lending standards,

Except for Clinton forcing the GSEs to make 50% of their mortgage purchases subprime.

Bullshit. While subprime loans were around for years, they weren’t a problem until about 2003...

By 2003, the GSEs had already bought over $1 trillion worth of subprime loans.

Idiot. I just showed you it wasn’t a problem until 2003.

 

[Mac1958]

Bush was certainly more pro-business ideologically than Obama, whose "you didn't build that" speech was stunning in its naivete, ignorance and tone-deafness.

Coming from you, that means he hit the nail on the head!

From your shallow, hardcore left wing partisan perspective, sure, you bet, absolutely.
.

 

[Mac1958]

He was the most anti-business President in our lifetime.

From your end of the spectrum, that's what I would expect.

Bush left behind the worst and most complex financial/business disaster of our lifetimes, but he was better.

Okay, sure.
.

Bush set Obama up with TARP. Obama gave us ObamaCare and the Obama Stimulus...the first was a job killer and the second under performed so badly they had to bullshit us on the numbers with "Jobs Saved or Created"!

What I found telling about Obama was what his next big policy goal was going to be...passing Cap & Trade legislation. THAT would have been devastating to the US economy!

Bush had to stand back and allow TARP to be crammed through because he had no choice. The economy was in abject collapse.

Bush celebrated and trumpeted the phony real estate numbers all the way through his presidency. He celebrated and trumpeted the lack of regulations that allowed the ratings agencies to sell AAA (Treasury-level!) ratings for the absolute shit securities that brought us down. He celebrated and trumpeted the lack of regulations that allowed AIG to sell zillions of dollars in credit default swaps (insurance) on those shit securities with zero (0) dollars in reserve for them. Hey, what could go wrong?!

He happily turned a blind eye to the absolutely insane loans being offered and sold by mortgage companies, who knew they'd have them packaged and sold as (holy shit, wtf) AAA by noon the next day. He loved the lack of regulation that allowed the banks to SHORT the very shit securities they were SELLING as AAA. He smiled as Alan Greenspan - who would later say "oops, shit, sorry, my bad" - aggressively refused to regulate critical derivatives markets even though he had the authority to do so, even though CFTC Chairperson Brooksley Born herself BEGGED him to.

In other words, Bush took credit for the all supposed good stuff, and then handed a steaming pile of shit to his successor. Nothing Obama did after that, as blatantly naive as he was about business, caused as much damage to both businesses and individuals as Bush did. Not even close.
.

 

[kaz]

Why would I do that since I didn't claim that? I answered your question. Companies hire in anticipation of future projects. I didn't make a claim one way or the other regarding Trump

So when Trump takes credit for the amazing unemployment rates in 2017, you understand that he is full of shit right?

What about i didnt take a position on that dont you grasp?

Well take a position, it isn’t rocket science. It’s ok to call out the bullshit that comes from your side of the aisle. It might actually give you some credibility

libertarians have a side of the aisle now? Bam, cool!

Idiot

Dodging an answer then huh? Nice

Look ass wipe. I'm not a Trump supporter and you can't assign me the task of giving enough of a shit about one specific stat one specific year to argue it with an ideologue who's not intellectually honest enough to have any position on any point but to bash Trump.

Find a Trump supporter to bicker with about your Trump butt hurt. They're all over the board, stupid fuck

 

[kaz]

He didn't. But you idiots keep saying W was responsible for 2001 which was Clinton's budget, W was responsible for the entire eight year Obama term and then Trump became responsible the day he took office so Obama wasn't ever responsible for anything

Bullshit.

Bush blew up the budget with tax-cuts, unpaid-for wars and Medicaid part B.

That’s without blaming him for Great Recession.

So medicare part D that was signed in 2003 and tax cuts in June, 2001 caused a recession that started in March, 2001. Got it.

Well, you're clear what you are

The recession started in 2001?
So we had 8 years of recession?
Really?

Wow you're stupid. There were two recessions.

Early 2000s recession - Wikipedia

Great Recession - Wikipedia

You didn't know that? Seriously? How old are you, 12? That would explain a lot, actually

Obama and the media didn't bother to tell him that.

I can't believe anyone didn't know there was a recession at the end of Slick's term and another at the end of W's. It's unbelievable

 

[Pilot1]

Obama's multiple Trillion dollar stimuli didn't work. They were a pay back to unions, and cronies like Solyndra for their support to get him elected. Nothing more. It just added to our debt with no return on investment as evidenced by very low, or negative GDP growth, and cooked unemployment stats.

 

[Oldstyle]

He was the most anti-business President in our lifetime.

From your end of the spectrum, that's what I would expect.

Bush left behind the worst and most complex financial/business disaster of our lifetimes, but he was better.

Okay, sure.
.

Bush set Obama up with TARP. Obama gave us ObamaCare and the Obama Stimulus...the first was a job killer and the second under performed so badly they had to bullshit us on the numbers with "Jobs Saved or Created"!

What I found telling about Obama was what his next big policy goal was going to be...passing Cap & Trade legislation. THAT would have been devastating to the US economy!

Bush had to stand back and allow TARP to be crammed through because he had no choice. The economy was in abject collapse.

Bush celebrated and trumpeted the phony real estate numbers all the way through his presidency. He celebrated and trumpeted the lack of regulations that allowed the ratings agencies to sell AAA (Treasury-level!) ratings for the absolute shit securities that brought us down. He celebrated and trumpeted the lack of regulations that allowed AIG to sell zillions of dollars in credit default swaps (insurance) on those shit securities with zero (0) dollars in reserve for them. Hey, what could go wrong?!

He happily turned a blind eye to the absolutely insane loans being offered and sold by mortgage companies, who knew they'd have them packaged and sold as (holy shit, wtf) AAA by noon the next day. He loved the lack of regulation that allowed the banks to SHORT the very shit securities they were SELLING as AAA. He smiled as Alan Greenspan - who would later say "oops, shit, sorry, my bad" - aggressively refused to regulate critical derivatives markets even though he had the authority to do so, even though CFTC Chairperson Brooksley Born herself BEGGED him to.

In other words, Bush took credit for the all supposed good stuff, and then handed a steaming pile of shit to his successor. Nothing Obama did after that, as blatantly naive as he was about business, caused as much damage to both businesses and individuals as Bush did. Not even close.
.

Did you sleep through the Bush Presidency, Mac? You might want to go back and read up on it.

Bush pushed TARP through despite getting some pretty serious heat from fiscal conservatives from his own party who were dead set against "bailing out" financial institutions.

He also was one of the few in Washington that was warning about a looming problem with the housing market and what was being done over at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Bush is far from blameless for the 2007 recession but he's also not the "master" of that disaster as you'd like to make him out to be and his handling of TARP loans...in hindsight...was well done.

As for what Obama "did" to businesses? Passing the ACA?...putting in place more new regulations than any other administration in history?...changing the rule of law to favor the UAW over creditors in the GM deal?...using the Gulf oil spill to shut down permitting for all drilling even shallow water drilling that had an almost perfect safety record?...taking Boeing to court because they opened a plant in South Carolina, a right to work State, rather than Washington? That's not even delving into what his PROPOSED regulations...like Cap & Trade...did to businesses trying to plan their long term strategies!

It seems like you've managed to sleep through two Presidencies, Mac!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

To be to totally accurate, the Bush administration did not stop the then-existing policy of pressuring/enticing lenders into lowering credit standards.

There was no "then-existing policy" of lowering lending standards, Bush owns that himself, but you knew that already. Under Obama, borrowers had to be qualified, and had to have a downpayment. Bush made no downpayment loans for more than the house was worth to borrowers with bad credit who earned 20% less than the average income of the neighborhood they were buying into with his ADDI.

There was no "then-existing policy" of lowering lending standards,

Except for Clinton forcing the GSEs to make 50% of their mortgage purchases subprime.

Bullshit. While subprime loans were around for years, they weren’t a problem until about 2003...

By 2003, the GSEs had already bought over $1 trillion worth of subprime loans.

Idiot. I just showed you it wasn’t a problem until 2003.

Problem or not, the GSEs were buying a shitload.

 

[Mac1958]

He was the most anti-business President in our lifetime.

From your end of the spectrum, that's what I would expect.

Bush left behind the worst and most complex financial/business disaster of our lifetimes, but he was better.

Okay, sure.
.

Bush set Obama up with TARP. Obama gave us ObamaCare and the Obama Stimulus...the first was a job killer and the second under performed so badly they had to bullshit us on the numbers with "Jobs Saved or Created"!

What I found telling about Obama was what his next big policy goal was going to be...passing Cap & Trade legislation. THAT would have been devastating to the US economy!

Bush had to stand back and allow TARP to be crammed through because he had no choice. The economy was in abject collapse.

Bush celebrated and trumpeted the phony real estate numbers all the way through his presidency. He celebrated and trumpeted the lack of regulations that allowed the ratings agencies to sell AAA (Treasury-level!) ratings for the absolute shit securities that brought us down. He celebrated and trumpeted the lack of regulations that allowed AIG to sell zillions of dollars in credit default swaps (insurance) on those shit securities with zero (0) dollars in reserve for them. Hey, what could go wrong?!

He happily turned a blind eye to the absolutely insane loans being offered and sold by mortgage companies, who knew they'd have them packaged and sold as (holy shit, wtf) AAA by noon the next day. He loved the lack of regulation that allowed the banks to SHORT the very shit securities they were SELLING as AAA. He smiled as Alan Greenspan - who would later say "oops, shit, sorry, my bad" - aggressively refused to regulate critical derivatives markets even though he had the authority to do so, even though CFTC Chairperson Brooksley Born herself BEGGED him to.

In other words, Bush took credit for the all supposed good stuff, and then handed a steaming pile of shit to his successor. Nothing Obama did after that, as blatantly naive as he was about business, caused as much damage to both businesses and individuals as Bush did. Not even close.
.

Did you sleep through the Bush Presidency, Mac? You might want to go back and read up on it.

Bush pushed TARP through despite getting some pretty serious heat from fiscal conservatives from his own party who were dead set against "bailing out" financial institutions.

He also was one of the few in Washington that was warning about a looming problem with the housing market and what was being done over at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Bush is far from blameless for the 2007 recession but he's also not the "master" of that disaster as you'd like to make him out to be and his handling of TARP loans...in hindsight...was well done.

As for what Obama "did" to businesses? Passing the ACA?...putting in place more new regulations than any other administration in history?...changing the rule of law to favor the UAW over creditors in the GM deal?...using the Gulf oil spill to shut down permitting for all drilling even shallow water drilling that had an almost perfect safety record?...taking Boeing to court because they opened a plant in South Carolina, a right to work State, rather than Washington? That's not even delving into what his PROPOSED regulations...like Cap & Trade...did to businesses trying to plan their long term strategies!

It seems like you've managed to sleep through two Presidencies, Mac!

Well, since I'm an investment advisor, neck deep in the investing & financial world and had to guide the life savings of a couple of hundred clients through the Meltdown, I'll have to take your word for it. You must know MUCH more about it than I.

I notice you didn't address my specifics. That's okay. Most people's knowledge of what actually happened is shallow, distorted or both.

And actually it was then-Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson who came up with and pushed TARP through the political morass. Bush just did as he was told and otherwise stayed the hell out of the way like a good boy.

You may want to fool with someone else on this topic.
.

 

[dudmuck]

Obama's multiple Trillion dollar stimuli didn't work. They were a pay back to unions, and cronies like Solyndra for their support to get him elected. Nothing more. It just added to our debt with no return on investment as evidenced by very low, or negative GDP growth, and cooked unemployment stats.

Spreading your disinformation doesnt do anybody any good.

In 2012, the IGM Forum poll conducted by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business found 80% of leading economists agree unemployment was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been without the stimulus.

And the cost was $821 billion.

About the loan guarantee program that helped Solyndra: it was started by Bush.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Obama's multiple Trillion dollar stimuli didn't work. They were a pay back to unions, and cronies like Solyndra for their support to get him elected. Nothing more. It just added to our debt with no return on investment as evidenced by very low, or negative GDP growth, and cooked unemployment stats.

Spreading your disinformation doesnt do anybody any good.

In 2012, the IGM Forum poll conducted by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business found 80% of leading economists agree unemployment was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been without the stimulus.

And the cost was $821 billion.

About the loan guarantee program that helped Solyndra: it was started by Bush.

Bush didn't loan a single dollar to Solyndra.

 

[dudmuck]

Obama's multiple Trillion dollar stimuli didn't work. They were a pay back to unions, and cronies like Solyndra for their support to get him elected. Nothing more. It just added to our debt with no return on investment as evidenced by very low, or negative GDP growth, and cooked unemployment stats.

Spreading your disinformation doesnt do anybody any good.

In 2012, the IGM Forum poll conducted by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business found 80% of leading economists agree unemployment was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been without the stimulus.

And the cost was $821 billion.

About the loan guarantee program that helped Solyndra: it was started by Bush.

Bush didn't loan a single dollar to Solyndra.

Sure yes.
But probably the more appropriate fact check on "payback to cronies like solyndra", gets a mostly false rating.

 

[Faun]

Bullshit.

Bush blew up the budget with tax-cuts, unpaid-for wars and Medicaid part B.

That’s without blaming him for Great Recession.

So medicare part D that was signed in 2003 and tax cuts in June, 2001 caused a recession that started in March, 2001. Got it.

Well, you're clear what you are

The recession started in 2001?
So we had 8 years of recession?
Really?

Wow you're stupid. There were two recessions.

Early 2000s recession - Wikipedia

Great Recession - Wikipedia

You didn't know that? Seriously? How old are you, 12? That would explain a lot, actually

Obama and the media didn't bother to tell him that.

I can't believe anyone didn't know there was a recession at the end of Slick's term and another at the end of W's. It's unbelievable

Stop kazzing already. There was no recession at the end of Clinton’s presidency.

http://www.nber.org/cycles.html

 

[edthecynic]

Obama's multiple Trillion dollar stimuli didn't work. They were a pay back to unions, and cronies like Solyndra for their support to get him elected. Nothing more. It just added to our debt with no return on investment as evidenced by very low, or negative GDP growth, and cooked unemployment stats.

Just another Limbaugh Lie parroted by a mindless DittoTard skull of mush.

 

[Faun]

He was the most anti-business President in our lifetime.

From your end of the spectrum, that's what I would expect.

Bush left behind the worst and most complex financial/business disaster of our lifetimes, but he was better.

Okay, sure.
.

Bush set Obama up with TARP. Obama gave us ObamaCare and the Obama Stimulus...the first was a job killer and the second under performed so badly they had to bullshit us on the numbers with "Jobs Saved or Created"!

What I found telling about Obama was what his next big policy goal was going to be...passing Cap & Trade legislation. THAT would have been devastating to the US economy!

Bush had to stand back and allow TARP to be crammed through because he had no choice. The economy was in abject collapse.

Bush celebrated and trumpeted the phony real estate numbers all the way through his presidency. He celebrated and trumpeted the lack of regulations that allowed the ratings agencies to sell AAA (Treasury-level!) ratings for the absolute shit securities that brought us down. He celebrated and trumpeted the lack of regulations that allowed AIG to sell zillions of dollars in credit default swaps (insurance) on those shit securities with zero (0) dollars in reserve for them. Hey, what could go wrong?!

He happily turned a blind eye to the absolutely insane loans being offered and sold by mortgage companies, who knew they'd have them packaged and sold as (holy shit, wtf) AAA by noon the next day. He loved the lack of regulation that allowed the banks to SHORT the very shit securities they were SELLING as AAA. He smiled as Alan Greenspan - who would later say "oops, shit, sorry, my bad" - aggressively refused to regulate critical derivatives markets even though he had the authority to do so, even though CFTC Chairperson Brooksley Born herself BEGGED him to.

In other words, Bush took credit for the all supposed good stuff, and then handed a steaming pile of shit to his successor. Nothing Obama did after that, as blatantly naive as he was about business, caused as much damage to both businesses and individuals as Bush did. Not even close.
.

Did you sleep through the Bush Presidency, Mac? You might want to go back and read up on it.

Bush pushed TARP through despite getting some pretty serious heat from fiscal conservatives from his own party who were dead set against "bailing out" financial institutions.

He also was one of the few in Washington that was warning about a looming problem with the housing market and what was being done over at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Bush is far from blameless for the 2007 recession but he's also not the "master" of that disaster as you'd like to make him out to be and his handling of TARP loans...in hindsight...was well done.

As for what Obama "did" to businesses? Passing the ACA?...putting in place more new regulations than any other administration in history?...changing the rule of law to favor the UAW over creditors in the GM deal?...using the Gulf oil spill to shut down permitting for all drilling even shallow water drilling that had an almost perfect safety record?...taking Boeing to court because they opened a plant in South Carolina, a right to work State, rather than Washington? That's not even delving into what his PROPOSED regulations...like Cap & Trade...did to businesses trying to plan their long term strategies!

It seems like you've managed to sleep through two Presidencies, Mac!

LOLOL

And let’s not forget, this is your idea of Obama being harmful to businesses...

 

[Faun]

There was no "then-existing policy" of lowering lending standards, Bush owns that himself, but you knew that already. Under Obama, borrowers had to be qualified, and had to have a downpayment. Bush made no downpayment loans for more than the house was worth to borrowers with bad credit who earned 20% less than the average income of the neighborhood they were buying into with his ADDI.

There was no "then-existing policy" of lowering lending standards,

Except for Clinton forcing the GSEs to make 50% of their mortgage purchases subprime.

Bullshit. While subprime loans were around for years, they weren’t a problem until about 2003...

By 2003, the GSEs had already bought over $1 trillion worth of subprime loans.

Idiot. I just showed you it wasn’t a problem until 2003.

Problem or not, the GSEs were buying a shitload.

So why didn’t the Republican-led Congress do something to stop it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There was no "then-existing policy" of lowering lending standards,

Except for Clinton forcing the GSEs to make 50% of their mortgage purchases subprime.

Bullshit. While subprime loans were around for years, they weren’t a problem until about 2003...

By 2003, the GSEs had already bought over $1 trillion worth of subprime loans.

Idiot. I just showed you it wasn’t a problem until 2003.

Problem or not, the GSEs were buying a shitload.

So why didn’t the Republican-led Congress do something to stop it?

I agree, Bush took Clinton's stupid ideas and made them worse.