Just who are the "22 million uninsured" under the CBO findings?

[Fiero425]

Big surprise, Republican putting off vote on HC today! Senators are going to the WH this afternoon to waste more time with Trump knowing this is going nowhere! McConnell's standing up there with other Senators repeatedly saying Obamacare is failing! Ok! NOW WHAT? Republicans are in complete charge of the WH & all of Congress! The Dems don't even have the power to obstruct as Trump continually keeps saying which is complete BS! We're looking at the "Keystone Cops" of politics that can't shoot straight! They found out a long time ago, it was a lot easier to b!tch and say "NO" to everything Obama asked, but now that they're in charge, they don't seem to have a clue and it's pathetic; not them, but the supporters that think nothing of this chaos! If Pelosi and Reed were in charge, all kinds of legislation would have been passed by now; the current Congress has done nothing! They have a big ol' "goose egg" in their win column! Remember Trump said we would be so tired of winning! Winning what; embarrassment and shame?

 

[jc456]

bull shit. it's the young people that don't want to buy insurance, it's a fking scam like the russia thingy.

So you are standing up for the rights of the young people, those just out of college, who don't even think about serious medical illness? You think it's a good thing for them not to have health insurance?

they do, it's their right. or do you think you should control them? Wow aren't you the little dictator.

Is it being a dictator to require car insurance to drive a car? How about to charge taxes to buy or sell goods and earn an income? Or charge a HOA fee to live in a residential community?

why do doctors carry insurance? how about life insurance? all kinds of insurance is there a mandate to have everyone have all insurance? why health insurance. please explain.

Let me start of by saying I'm not a huge fan of the mandate, but I understand why they did it. I also think there are many reforms that need to be done to Obamacare including allowing catastrophic plans... As per your questions about why health insurance...

If you were walking down the street and got hit by lightning or a tree branch fell and hit you or you slipped an fell down some stairs, you would be taken to the hospital and treated. There is a requirement for our hospitals to treat people in crisis. We don't let people die in the streets in America. When somebody comes into the hospital and doesn't have insurance those costs get absorbed by others. Either the hospital absorbs the costs and care prices go up and up and up... or the family of the victim absorbs it and put their lively hood at risk (lose their house, go bankrupt, etc.)

Healthcare is a bigger beast than other forms of insurance... Do you not understand that?

dude, the poor got treated. is every poor person in catastrophic need? How much for a doctor visit? your talking extremes that happens very rarely. That's it give an example of something that happens one in 300 million. Nice. Again, why aren't we buying their car insurance, someone can hit and injure someone and what get off scott free.

 

[flacaltenn]

Don't confuse the issue!
The 22 million are people that bought insurance because they didn't want to pay a penalty!
NOT because they needed insurance, but because they were going to be penalized!

primarily because the penalty for not having insurance would be eliminated.

Nice try, but not even close to true. The majority of the 22 million would be people who no longer qualify for Medicad and can't afford private insurance... Also, older people who don't yet qualify for Medicare who's premiums will go up as a result of young people dropping out. On top of all this, people are still going to get sick and people are still going to get in accidents. They will still go to the hospital and need care. The more uninsured that do this the higher the medical care costs are going to get, which will in turn raise costs all around. Yes a shit storm is coming.

If you honestly think that getting millions of people off insurance is going to be a good thing because it saves a few bucks, then I suggest you reevaluate your thinking...

And you need to understand how health insurance works and worked FINE before the stupid ass comment by
Obama that "46 million uninsured Americans"! Bold face LIE when 10 million were not citizens!
14 million all need to do was register with Medicaid and 18 million UNDER 34 making over $50,000 didn't want health insurance as many were happy with their medical savings accounts that accumulated money tax free and from there they paid any expenses! But you and the CBO and Obama YOU knew better then these 18 million that were still counted erroneously and fraudulently as part of the 46 million uninsured LIE!

It worked fine? I remember it being a disaster... crazy high rate increases, millions uninsured... Think you need to recheck your history

Less than 10% of families "uninsured". Defined as CHRONICALLY uninsured. And rather than FIX the 10% -- The Dimms decided to tear up everything and rebury it all in bureaucracy and inefficiencies.

 

[healthmyths]

I have YET anyone ANYONE to REFUTE these numbers!
Come on tell that there weren't 10+ million counted as part of the 46 million Obama said?
Tell me there weren't 14 million who didn't KNOW they were eligible for Medicaid but didn't know it BEFORE Obamacare?
Proof? AFTER Obama care 4.9 million were covered BEFORE ACA by Medicaid!
Finally please why would people count 18 million who are under 34 making over $50,000 that didn't NEED,WANT or desire to pay employers' health plans?
These millions had Health savings plans that were more efficient and better use of their money!
Here are the LINKS!
1)14 million didn't know they were eligible for Medicaid already!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
2)10 million of the supposed 46 million uninsured WERE NOT CITIZENS!!
Illegals as the Census Bureau stated!
http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/income_wealth/cb10-144.html
3)18 million were under 34 years, make over $50,000 and didn't WANT or need employers' health
programs! Over half of them (9.7 million) in households with incomes that exceed $75,000 annually. -
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
4) Many veterans qualify for cost-free health care services based on a compensable service-connected
condition or other qualifying factors. NOTE Total Unique Patients of VA: 5,830,130
Determine Cost of Care - Health Benefits

 

[Brain357]

The fact is that low income people will lose their coverage. How do we know this? The Senate plan will get rid of all of the taxes yet will reduce the deficit. The only way that can happen is if people are forced out of their coverage and cannot use the subsidies. Also the increase after 2018 in the number of people who lose insurance proves that this is not people who didn't want insurance.

Wrong. You liberalism is overriding your ability to read for comprehension again.

Right. I am not a Trump sycophant. I am a compassionate Reagan conservative. There are a few things that is right about Obamacare and I would keep it. However I would give more people the chance to choose the type of package they want. I would get rid of a lot of the bureaucracy surrounding it. I would also keep the subsidies. We need to help people get better paying jobs. That is how you reduce healthcare payments.

why is the government in our healthcare anyway? explain. They aren't in my car insurance. my home owners insurance. why health insurance?

Because costs are out of control and many can't afford it on their own.

can they afford car insurance and home owners insurance? I mean why the fk stop there, fk, give them your money.

Health is rather more important.

 

[jc456]

Wrong. You liberalism is overriding your ability to read for comprehension again.

Right. I am not a Trump sycophant. I am a compassionate Reagan conservative. There are a few things that is right about Obamacare and I would keep it. However I would give more people the chance to choose the type of package they want. I would get rid of a lot of the bureaucracy surrounding it. I would also keep the subsidies. We need to help people get better paying jobs. That is how you reduce healthcare payments.

why is the government in our healthcare anyway? explain. They aren't in my car insurance. my home owners insurance. why health insurance?

Because costs are out of control and many can't afford it on their own.

can they afford car insurance and home owners insurance? I mean why the fk stop there, fk, give them your money.

Health is rather more important.

well take care of yourself. I'm not responsible for you.

 

[Brain357]

Right. I am not a Trump sycophant. I am a compassionate Reagan conservative. There are a few things that is right about Obamacare and I would keep it. However I would give more people the chance to choose the type of package they want. I would get rid of a lot of the bureaucracy surrounding it. I would also keep the subsidies. We need to help people get better paying jobs. That is how you reduce healthcare payments.

why is the government in our healthcare anyway? explain. They aren't in my car insurance. my home owners insurance. why health insurance?

Because costs are out of control and many can't afford it on their own.

can they afford car insurance and home owners insurance? I mean why the fk stop there, fk, give them your money.

Health is rather more important.

well take care of yourself. I'm not responsible for you.

That is all you got? Funny. Many people who take care of themselves still get cancer and other illnesses. I'm a Christian so I believe in helping the sick.

 

[healthmyths]

No, they don't pay for themselves! They don't WANT insurance because they have to pay for it. So getting them into the market means you are going to force them to buy insurance or pay a penalty. That would just be Obamacare II.

Some don't want insurance... Others can't afford it

Again.. please provide data substantiating your claim: how many don't want... how many can't afford? Please deal with facts not guesses!

I'll do some digging. In the mean time please provide your data that shows all 22 million that will lose their insurance are voluntary opt outs

well did the CBO state who the 22 million would be? if they didn't, then how can anyone answer that? Why doesn't the CBO give who those 22 million are? Because they can't because it's made up.

I've only heard analysis that referred to the 22 mill being those who won't get Medicaid, those who get prices out and those who opt out

bull shit. it's the young people that don't want to buy insurance, it's a fking scam like the russia thingy.

So you are standing up for the rights of the young people, those just out of college, who don't even think about serious medical illness? You think it's a good thing for them not to have health insurance?

they do, it's their right. or do you think you should control them? Wow aren't you the little dictator.

Is it being a dictator to require car insurance to drive a car? How about to charge taxes to buy or sell goods and earn an income? Or charge a HOA fee to live in a residential community?

so where is the legislation that is written for that? You think everyone carries car insurance? LOL. only people who drive carry insurance.

Can you not see the point? They aren't the exact same situations but carry similar principles.

LOOK I copied directly from the CBO...https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/52849-hr1628senate.pdf
CBO and JCT estimate that, in 2018, 15 million more people would be uninsured under this legislation than under current law—
primarily because the penalty for not having insurance would be eliminated.

NOW people!!! THINK!!!! Everyone I mean everyone talks about "more people would be uninsured"!!!!
NOT one person,i.e. CBO, Obama even GOPers ask this simple question..."How many of these 15 million really NEED and WANT health insurance?
Listen folks....
AGAIN...18 million were under 34 years, make over $50,000 and didn't WANT or need employers' health programs!
Over half of them (9.7 million) in households with incomes that exceed $75,000 annually. -
CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009

WHY didn't they want or need insurance?
A) Many had health savings accounts which met their needs better then their employers' plan! Seriously why have money deducted to go to a group plan
when you can have BEFORE tax deduction going to your savings account and YOU control the spending!
B) Many UNDER 34 just didn't NEED insurance! Seriously folks look at reality from the insurance companies perspective!
QUESTION for all of you who haven't thought about this! Why would a health insurance policy for a 30 year old cost less then for a 50 year OLD???
DUH!!! I know I KNOW! But translate that to reality! Because the insurance companies KNOW from experience that a 30 year will NOT need health services! PERIOD!
Comprehend?

 

[jc456]

why is the government in our healthcare anyway? explain. They aren't in my car insurance. my home owners insurance. why health insurance?

Because costs are out of control and many can't afford it on their own.

can they afford car insurance and home owners insurance? I mean why the fk stop there, fk, give them your money.

Health is rather more important.

well take care of yourself. I'm not responsible for you.

That is all you got? Funny. Many people who take care of themselves still get cancer and other illnesses. I'm a Christian so I believe in helping the sick.

that is why there should be catastrophic coverage. why isn't there? again, why should someone healthy take care of someone with cancer? I'm sorry, but again, i'm not responsible for everyone in the country.

 

[healthmyths]

After writing the above I'm reminded of a story that illustrates how the OBVIOUS seems so hard for people to comprehend.
The OBVIOUS... 18 million of Obama's 46 million DIDN"T NEED health insurance!
Now here is the story....
Seems a big truck got stuck like the below.

People stood around all coming up with different ideas until this little kid said "why not let some air out of the tires?"!
DUH! Again the obvious question ..."Why did all this health insurance phony crisis come about because
A) Obama said there were 46 million uninsured!
YET
1) 10 million were not LEGAL!
2) 14 million didn't know they were eligible for Medicaid! And this was before ACA! After ACA... 4.9 million have signed up but were eligible BEFORE!!
3) 18 million under 34 making over $50,000 DON"T WANT or NEED...remember insurance companies charge a 30 year old less BECAUSE of WHY????

 

[Brain357]

P

Because costs are out of control and many can't afford it on their own.

can they afford car insurance and home owners insurance? I mean why the fk stop there, fk, give them your money.

Health is rather more important.

well take care of yourself. I'm not responsible for you.

That is all you got? Funny. Many people who take care of themselves still get cancer and other illnesses. I'm a Christian so I believe in helping the sick.

that is why there should be catastrophic coverage. why isn't there? again, why should someone healthy take care of someone with cancer? I'm sorry, but again, i'm not responsible for everyone in the country.

I get you are selfish. That isn't government though.

 

[Brain357]

After writing the above I'm reminded of a story that illustrates how the OBVIOUS seems so hard for people to comprehend.
The OBVIOUS... 18 million of Obama's 46 million DIDN"T NEED health insurance!
Now here is the story....
Seems a big truck got stuck like the below.

People stood around all coming up with different ideas until this little kid said "why not let some air out of the tires?"!
DUH! Again the obvious question ..."Why did all this health insurance phony crisis come about because
A) Obama said there were 46 million uninsured!
YET
1) 10 million were not LEGAL!
2) 14 million didn't know they were eligible for Medicaid! And this was before ACA! After ACA... 4.9 million have signed up but were eligible BEFORE!!
3) 18 million under 34 making over $50,000 DON"T WANT or NEED...remember insurance companies charge a 30 year old less BECAUSE of WHY????

View attachment 135854

The cost of healthcare has been skyrocketing since long before obama.

 

[healthmyths]

So again... I ASK will someone please refute this????

 

[healthmyths]

After writing the above I'm reminded of a story that illustrates how the OBVIOUS seems so hard for people to comprehend.
The OBVIOUS... 18 million of Obama's 46 million DIDN"T NEED health insurance!
Now here is the story....
Seems a big truck got stuck like the below.

People stood around all coming up with different ideas until this little kid said "why not let some air out of the tires?"!
DUH! Again the obvious question ..."Why did all this health insurance phony crisis come about because
A) Obama said there were 46 million uninsured!
YET
1) 10 million were not LEGAL!
2) 14 million didn't know they were eligible for Medicaid! And this was before ACA! After ACA... 4.9 million have signed up but were eligible BEFORE!!
3) 18 million under 34 making over $50,000 DON"T WANT or NEED...remember insurance companies charge a 30 year old less BECAUSE of WHY????

View attachment 135854

The cost of healthcare has been skyrocketing since long before obama.

Please ANSWER the question? Where did the 46 million uninsured come from IF the attached FACTS aren't TRUE?

 

[Slade3200]

The Obama Administration took in Millions of Dollars in Obamacare fines from millions of working poor who could not pay for healthcare and instead chose to pay the fines.

That number is expected to increase exponentially over the next two years making Obamacare aka Affordable Health Care act unaffordable for Millions of Americans!

Remember this?
Obama and other Democrats made it sound like there were tens of millions of Americans going uninsured because cruel insurers were refusing to cover them. The Obama administration even put out a report titled
“At Risk: Pre-Existing Conditions Could Affect 1 in 2 Americans: 129 Million Could Be Denied Affordable Coverage Without Health Reform."

It was ludicrously dishonest. Here’s why.
First: prior to Obamacare, the vast majority of Americans with health insurance were already in plans that were required to offer them coverage regardless of pre-existing conditions.
Employer-based plans were required to offer coverage to everyone regardless of pre-existing conditions.
So were Medicare, Medicaid, and other government programs like the VA.
Employer- and government-based plans, prior to Obamacare, represented 90 percent of Americans with health insurance.

The other 10 percent were people buying coverage on their own, on the individual market. In most—but not all—states prior to Obamacare,
people buying coverage on their own could, in theory, be denied coverage for a pre-existing condition.

That gets us to point number two: that in practice, a tiny percentage of Americans were being denied coverage due to a pre-existing condition prior to Obamacare.
We know this in general because surveys consistently indicated that this was the case, and in detail because of an Obamacare program called the
Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan, or PCIP.
PCIP was designed to work from the years 2010 to 2014, as a bridge until Obamacare’s insurance regulations took effect.
During those years, Americans could sign up for heavily subsidized coverage under PCIP if they had documented proof that they had been denied coverage by an insurance company and had a pre-existing condition.
Suffice it to say that 129 million people didn’t sign up for the PCIP program. Indeed, not even 129 thousand people signed up for the program.
Enrollment in PCIP peaked in February 2013 at 114,959.
Thanks To Democrats, Pre-Existing Conditions Outweigh The Uninsured In The GOP Obamacare Deal

I'm going to shout now!!! ANOTHER GIGANTIC LIE FROM OBAMA:
"Up to half of all Americans have a pre-existing condition."

Obamacare covered an additional 2% of the Population (THEY WERE FORCED TO BUY INSURANCE) at the cost of 3 Trillion Dollars.

That is not true. Most of the people who lose their insurance will be low income people. It is simple logic. Cost of insurance goes up and subsidies go down. Medicare gets less money and more people lose their coverage.

What makes the (Obama appointees) CBO so smart? They were wrong about the figures in Obamacare. The dirty little secret is that ever bureaucrat appointed by Obama has a political agenda from the top on down and it includes intelligence, federal law enforcement, the budget and especially the judicial branch. It never used to be that intense but democrats have gone from being disappointed about the election to outright crazy and incoherent with hatred.

The CBO is a legislative agency. The head of the CBO was appointed by Republicans.

I'll do some digging. In the mean time please provide your data that shows all 22 million that will lose their insurance are voluntary opt outs

well did the CBO state who the 22 million would be? if they didn't, then how can anyone answer that? Why doesn't the CBO give who those 22 million are? Because they can't because it's made up.

It is not made up. It is simple logic.. Costs go up and subsidies go down. People lose coverage.

Obamacare needs many reforms to work better, the reforms should have been implemented years ago, and our congress should have been working together to make these fixes instead of playing the all or nothing blame game.

The new bill isn't going to make the situation any better, unless you're a rich dude.

There NEVER was a need for Obamacare as there NEVER were 46 million uninsured Americans!
Please refute these numbers OK???
View attachment 135851

Well thats a great analysis from a "former Iowan who lives in Texas" haha. Great source man!

So you are standing up for the rights of the young people, those just out of college, who don't even think about serious medical illness? You think it's a good thing for them not to have health insurance?

they do, it's their right. or do you think you should control them? Wow aren't you the little dictator.

Is it being a dictator to require car insurance to drive a car? How about to charge taxes to buy or sell goods and earn an income? Or charge a HOA fee to live in a residential community?

why do doctors carry insurance? how about life insurance? all kinds of insurance is there a mandate to have everyone have all insurance? why health insurance. please explain.

Let me start of by saying I'm not a huge fan of the mandate, but I understand why they did it. I also think there are many reforms that need to be done to Obamacare including allowing catastrophic plans... As per your questions about why health insurance...

If you were walking down the street and got hit by lightning or a tree branch fell and hit you or you slipped an fell down some stairs, you would be taken to the hospital and treated. There is a requirement for our hospitals to treat people in crisis. We don't let people die in the streets in America. When somebody comes into the hospital and doesn't have insurance those costs get absorbed by others. Either the hospital absorbs the costs and care prices go up and up and up... or the family of the victim absorbs it and put their lively hood at risk (lose their house, go bankrupt, etc.)

Healthcare is a bigger beast than other forms of insurance... Do you not understand that?

dude, the poor got treated. is every poor person in catastrophic need? How much for a doctor visit? your talking extremes that happens very rarely. That's it give an example of something that happens one in 300 million. Nice. Again, why aren't we buying their car insurance, someone can hit and injure someone and what get off scott free.

1 in 300 million? Not quite dude, if you listened you'd hear story after story of people who have suffered or died because of lack of insurance/healthcare. Its a problem. It was a problem before Obama.

 

[Slade3200]

Don't confuse the issue!
The 22 million are people that bought insurance because they didn't want to pay a penalty!
NOT because they needed insurance, but because they were going to be penalized!

primarily because the penalty for not having insurance would be eliminated.

Nice try, but not even close to true. The majority of the 22 million would be people who no longer qualify for Medicad and can't afford private insurance... Also, older people who don't yet qualify for Medicare who's premiums will go up as a result of young people dropping out. On top of all this, people are still going to get sick and people are still going to get in accidents. They will still go to the hospital and need care. The more uninsured that do this the higher the medical care costs are going to get, which will in turn raise costs all around. Yes a shit storm is coming.

If you honestly think that getting millions of people off insurance is going to be a good thing because it saves a few bucks, then I suggest you reevaluate your thinking...

And you need to understand how health insurance works and worked FINE before the stupid ass comment by
Obama that "46 million uninsured Americans"! Bold face LIE when 10 million were not citizens!
14 million all need to do was register with Medicaid and 18 million UNDER 34 making over $50,000 didn't want health insurance as many were happy with their medical savings accounts that accumulated money tax free and from there they paid any expenses! But you and the CBO and Obama YOU knew better then these 18 million that were still counted erroneously and fraudulently as part of the 46 million uninsured LIE!

It worked fine? I remember it being a disaster... crazy high rate increases, millions uninsured... Think you need to recheck your history

Less than 10% of families "uninsured". Defined as CHRONICALLY uninsured. And rather than FIX the 10% -- The Dimms decided to tear up everything and rebury it all in bureaucracy and inefficiencies.

If there is 10% that are "chronically unisured" then I agree that we shouldn't waste a crazy amount of energy trying to force them into insurance. The mandate and fine im sure made a little impact, but its not as big a deal as many make it out to be. The main issues were with costs and quality of care. Obamacare tried to add more to the market to drive down costs and set higher standards for care so insurance companies couldn't deny or take advantage of people like they were doing. The ACA overreached a bit so a smart of amount of de-regulation makes sense. It should be a bipartisan effort though

 

[Brain357]

How Obamacare Helped Slash Personal Bankruptcy by 50%

 

[Slade3200]

Some don't want insurance... Others can't afford it

Again.. please provide data substantiating your claim: how many don't want... how many can't afford? Please deal with facts not guesses!

I'll do some digging. In the mean time please provide your data that shows all 22 million that will lose their insurance are voluntary opt outs

well did the CBO state who the 22 million would be? if they didn't, then how can anyone answer that? Why doesn't the CBO give who those 22 million are? Because they can't because it's made up.

I've only heard analysis that referred to the 22 mill being those who won't get Medicaid, those who get prices out and those who opt out

So you are standing up for the rights of the young people, those just out of college, who don't even think about serious medical illness? You think it's a good thing for them not to have health insurance?

they do, it's their right. or do you think you should control them? Wow aren't you the little dictator.

Is it being a dictator to require car insurance to drive a car? How about to charge taxes to buy or sell goods and earn an income? Or charge a HOA fee to live in a residential community?

so where is the legislation that is written for that? You think everyone carries car insurance? LOL. only people who drive carry insurance.

Can you not see the point? They aren't the exact same situations but carry similar principles.

LOOK I copied directly from the CBO...https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/52849-hr1628senate.pdf
CBO and JCT estimate that, in 2018, 15 million more people would be uninsured under this legislation than under current law—
primarily because the penalty for not having insurance would be eliminated.

NOW people!!! THINK!!!! Everyone I mean everyone talks about "more people would be uninsured"!!!!
NOT one person,i.e. CBO, Obama even GOPers ask this simple question..."How many of these 15 million really NEED and WANT health insurance?
Listen folks....
AGAIN...18 million were under 34 years, make over $50,000 and didn't WANT or need employers' health programs!
Over half of them (9.7 million) in households with incomes that exceed $75,000 annually. -
CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009

WHY didn't they want or need insurance?
A) Many had health savings accounts which met their needs better then their employers' plan! Seriously why have money deducted to go to a group plan
when you can have BEFORE tax deduction going to your savings account and YOU control the spending!
B) Many UNDER 34 just didn't NEED insurance! Seriously folks look at reality from the insurance companies perspective!
QUESTION for all of you who haven't thought about this! Why would a health insurance policy for a 30 year old cost less then for a 50 year OLD???
DUH!!! I know I KNOW! But translate that to reality! Because the insurance companies KNOW from experience that a 30 year will NOT need health services! PERIOD!
Comprehend?

I understand your points and you make some good ones. I'd much rather see measures to lower healthcare costs and handle these things personally, but that just isn't our reality and unfortunately we need insurance to cover medical costs. When a week in the hospital can run over a quarter of a million dollars, people just don't have that kind of cash laying around.

So we can't just go from our current system to nothing. I'm fine with young people opting into health savings plans instead of insurance. Just know that the more that do that the higher premiums are going to get for those in the marketplace. There is a cause and effect for everything

 

[healthmyths]

Again.. please provide data substantiating your claim: how many don't want... how many can't afford? Please deal with facts not guesses!

I'll do some digging. In the mean time please provide your data that shows all 22 million that will lose their insurance are voluntary opt outs

well did the CBO state who the 22 million would be? if they didn't, then how can anyone answer that? Why doesn't the CBO give who those 22 million are? Because they can't because it's made up.

I've only heard analysis that referred to the 22 mill being those who won't get Medicaid, those who get prices out and those who opt out

they do, it's their right. or do you think you should control them? Wow aren't you the little dictator.

Is it being a dictator to require car insurance to drive a car? How about to charge taxes to buy or sell goods and earn an income? Or charge a HOA fee to live in a residential community?

so where is the legislation that is written for that? You think everyone carries car insurance? LOL. only people who drive carry insurance.

Can you not see the point? They aren't the exact same situations but carry similar principles.

LOOK I copied directly from the CBO...https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/52849-hr1628senate.pdf
CBO and JCT estimate that, in 2018, 15 million more people would be uninsured under this legislation than under current law—
primarily because the penalty for not having insurance would be eliminated.

NOW people!!! THINK!!!! Everyone I mean everyone talks about "more people would be uninsured"!!!!
NOT one person,i.e. CBO, Obama even GOPers ask this simple question..."How many of these 15 million really NEED and WANT health insurance?
Listen folks....
AGAIN...18 million were under 34 years, make over $50,000 and didn't WANT or need employers' health programs!
Over half of them (9.7 million) in households with incomes that exceed $75,000 annually. -
CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009

WHY didn't they want or need insurance?
A) Many had health savings accounts which met their needs better then their employers' plan! Seriously why have money deducted to go to a group plan
when you can have BEFORE tax deduction going to your savings account and YOU control the spending!
B) Many UNDER 34 just didn't NEED insurance! Seriously folks look at reality from the insurance companies perspective!
QUESTION for all of you who haven't thought about this! Why would a health insurance policy for a 30 year old cost less then for a 50 year OLD???
DUH!!! I know I KNOW! But translate that to reality! Because the insurance companies KNOW from experience that a 30 year will NOT need health services! PERIOD!
Comprehend?

I understand your points and you make some good ones. I'd much rather see measures to lower healthcare costs and handle these things personally, but that just isn't our reality and unfortunately we need insurance to cover medical costs. When a week in the hospital can run over a quarter of a million dollars, people just don't have that kind of cash laying around.

So we can't just go from our current system to nothing. I'm fine with young people opting into health savings plans instead of insurance. Just know that the more that do that the higher premiums are going to get for those in the marketplace. There is a cause and effect for everything

You want a villain in all this? Want to know WHY hospital bills are so high?
ANSWER! EMTALA!
In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Section 1867 of the Social Security Act imposes specific obligations on Medicare-participating hospitals that offer emergency services to provide a medical screening examination (MSE) when a request is made for examination or treatment for an emergency medical condition (EMC), including active labor, regardless of an individual's ability to pay. Hospitals are then required to provide stabilizing treatment for patients with EMCs. If a hospital is unable to stabilize a patient within its capability, or if the patient requests, an appropriate transfer should be implemented.
Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services

Now this was a compassionate idea that once again turned into an avalanche with people with no insurance go into the emergency room for sniffles.

The hospital then absorbs the costs known as "Uncompensated Care" costs were $6,822,970
So if you are from the Northwest may know this hospital:
Legacy Emanuel Medical Center in Portland Or.
Their gross revenues in 2016 were $1,674,267,308.
So how do they recover this $6,822,970 costs?
As one hospital CEO when asked "How do hospitals deal with the cost of the uninsured? His answer" Like any business, we pass it on to the paying customers."
They pass it on in the form of billing the paying customers, i.e. Medicare, health insurance companies, etc.
So how do they pass it ON?
Again Legacy Emanuel...
Well for example they performed CT Scans on 1,765 patients that the AVERAGE CHARGE per scan is: $1,576
Yet the Average Cost to do the scan: $135
What Medicare Paid per claim: $182
Guess who pays the $1,576 IF there is no negotiations i.e. the insurance companies?
This is how the health care system works...the organizations that pay are overcharged to cover the "uninsured"!

Solution? There is one and I'll share if you want to know!

ANSWER! Defensive Medicine!

 

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So again... I ASK will someone please refute this????
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Common sense refutes the claims of an "Iowan who now lives in Texas" Did he personally survey 18 million people and verify that they all didn't have insurance because they just didn't want it. Or the 14 million that qualified for Medicad but just didn't know about it? Come on man, stop leaning on stuff like this, its beneath you