Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[Skull Pilot]

Fact, blacks kill more whites than whites kill blacks. Stop diverting. How do you get out that the issue is ... whites being racist?

You're just a typical Democrat race whore. Blacks aren't racist because only whites are racist. You know that because you're not a racist ...

Statistics say that. Murder statistics especially when it comes to who committed them, are about the least reliable statistic there is. Now you've seemed to have some reasoning and common sense in this thread, so I'm sure you can figure out why murder statistics when it comes to who committed the murders are hard to figure out.

Statistics say that when blacks murder more whites than whites murder blacks, the issue is racist whites. And I called you a race whore. Nailed it!

Obviously you don't understand murder statistics along with sexual assault statistics will NEVER be correct. Do you have any idea how many murders go unsolved per year? And do you know who happens to make up the demographic of most of those unsolved murders?

Guess what? If you can't solve a murder, then you can't assign the demographic of the murderer. Even worse yet, do you know how many missing people go unfound every year?

Now those are REAL statistics.

What does it have to do with your Democrat party plan of only disarming honest citizens while doing nothing about the criminals?

I don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. First, I'm not a Democrat. Secondly I'm not for disarming honest citizens.

I'm for common sense laws like not letting fucking people like those getting Federal disability for a mental condition being allowed to buy guns for one... which was the VERY first executive order Trump signed when he became President.

Come on you lying sack of shit

Quote the post where I said the words you claim I said

You haven't done it because you can't

 

[Skull Pilot]

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

If he was just yelling?

I would have ignored him

If he put his hands on them or tried to open the car doors that's a different story

You'd ignore some nutcase yelling at your family for where you parked, but if he touched you, you'd waste him. I'd say that's a good argument, but wow, it's not

Whats so hard to understand? Yelling you leave,manhandling they get shot.

How do you just leave when he's screaming at your wife with your kids there over where you parked?

I hope you're never in that situation because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I haven't either, and hope I never will be.

But the murderer staged a situation by being armed and initiating aggression and repeating it until he got what he wanted

You get in the car and drive away

 

[Lewdog]

They don't? If you break the law, the punishment you receive is dictated by the Bill of Rights in the 8th Amendment that you can not receive a punishment that the courts rule are cruel and unusual compared to the severity of the crime. That's EXACTLY the same principle. But see the issue here is you are a hypocrite that lacks morals. You'd rather defend and try to scapegoat a murderer, instead of admitting a legal gun carrying citizen abused his right.

No it's not it's dictated by the laws and statutes of the state the crime was committed in

Wow. The Bill of Rights has power over the states given to it by Due Process through the 14th Amendment.

Our educational system is seriously failing our country. Some of the stuff in this thread EVERY citizen in this country should know in order to be able to vote.

I cannot violate your 8th amendment rights, Idiot

Only the government can violate your 8th amendment rights

You dumbfuck. I've told you at least 3 times now I never said that. I said they share the same PRINCIPLE. If you agree with the Constitution which gives citizens protection against cruel and unusual punishment, then in life, if you don't feel the same way, you are a hypocrite, which you've proven.

You said that the guy DESERVED TO DIE, for committing simple assault by pushing the guy to the ground. The punishment does not fit the crime.

All right FUCK WAD

quote the post where I said he deserved to die

You said in this thread that him being dumb enough to assault him, he deserved to die. If I'm going to look through all these pages to give the the exact post number it is going to be worth my while. So you want to bet on it?

 

[kaz]

Concealed permit holder right ?? Are you suggesting that concealed carry permits are found in cracker jack boxes ??

Where is there any stipulation on being trained to overcome emotion?

An NRA pistol safety class does not train people to overcome emotion

However, it would train people to avoid rather than create conflict as the test way to prevent shootings, however. And the goal is to avoid a shooting if at all possible, not just justify a shooting.

If you were carrying, would you start screaming at another guys's woman over where she was parked? You see any risk of that turning into a shooting?

I don't yell at anyone

but then again yelling at a person is not a crime while forcibly assaulting a person is

Threatening people is a crime.

So seriously, you'd let someone scream at your wife for where you'd parked.

Again with the stupid argument

Shoving someone who is threatening your wife is an unreasonable escallation

Killing someone who shoves you for yelling at his wife is perfectly good.

That's totally idiotic

Who threatened anyone?

Go to the one minute mark of the video

 

[Skull Pilot]

No it's not it's dictated by the laws and statutes of the state the crime was committed in

Wow. The Bill of Rights has power over the states given to it by Due Process through the 14th Amendment.

Our educational system is seriously failing our country. Some of the stuff in this thread EVERY citizen in this country should know in order to be able to vote.

I cannot violate your 8th amendment rights, Idiot

Only the government can violate your 8th amendment rights

You dumbfuck. I've told you at least 3 times now I never said that. I said they share the same PRINCIPLE. If you agree with the Constitution which gives citizens protection against cruel and unusual punishment, then in life, if you don't feel the same way, you are a hypocrite, which you've proven.

You said that the guy DESERVED TO DIE, for committing simple assault by pushing the guy to the ground. The punishment does not fit the crime.

All right FUCK WAD

quote the post where I said he deserved to die

You said in this thread that him being dumb enough to assault him, he deserved to die. If I'm going to look through all these pages to give the the exact post number it is going to be worth my while. So you want to bet on it?

Quote the post

I never said that and you refuse to prove that I did

 

[kaz]

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

I sure as fuck wouldnt assault him!!!
Thats a good way to get shot.......oh wait.

that is the beauty of concealed carry

True. And people who initiate aggression to kill people if they respond is the downside of CC

still have not proved that yet have ya

Go to the one minute mark of the video and watch the next 20 seconds

 

[OODA_Loop]

I'm for common sense laws like not letting fucking people like those getting Federal disability for a mental condition being allowed to buy guns for one... which was the VERY first executive order Trump signed when he became President.

No it wasnt
Which executive orders did Trump sign on Day One?

 

[kaz]

Typical Democrat argument, argue from theory, ignore reality.

In reality, the psycho WOULD carry the gun in the bar while everyone else would obey the law and be unarmed to defend themselves.

This happens over and over and yet you have a complete inability to learn from reality

Theory that is still being studied today is still being studied today because it is supported by reality.

Reality supports that disarming honest citizens while doing nothing about armed psychos stops shootings. Got it. Thanks for pointing that out

Disarming honest citizens? That's the funny thing, you don't know who is an honest responsible citizen until they either fuck up or don't. You just argued all these pages that this guy is a murderer and is an irresponsible gun owner... well by your logic there is nothing that could be done about it, because he had lived 50+ years without shooting and killing anyone to this point.

Here's a hint. The honest citizens are the ones who follow the law and disarm.

The psychos who don't disarm and shoot them aren't honest citizens.

I realize that was very subtle

And I told you that you don't know who the honest and dishonest ones until they do something dishonest. This isn't Minority Report where psychics tell you ahead of time who will commit crimes.

Asked and answered. They identify themselves. Your law identifies them as the honest ones follow the law and the dishonest ones don't. Then you've created a situation where the dishonest ones are the only ones armed. Good job

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Justified. If the guy on the ground was in fear of his safety.

So as long as your afraid, your justified in taking another mans life? Taking another mans life is dependent on your emotional state?

That is the law..... you have to be in fear of death or grievious bodily harm..... and since the attacker attacked the guy violently and then kept advancing..... it was on him....not the victim.

You are the only poster on this thread who sees the man advancing. Why is that?

You have to watch the video, he hikes up his pants and steps forward..... he only steps back as the man points the gun at him.... and by then it is too late...

No, it is not. Don't try this or you will wind up in jail like this guy almost certainly will. There was no reason to pull the trigger in this scenario. None whatsoever!

 

[Skull Pilot]

No it's not it's dictated by the laws and statutes of the state the crime was committed in

Wow. The Bill of Rights has power over the states given to it by Due Process through the 14th Amendment.

Our educational system is seriously failing our country. Some of the stuff in this thread EVERY citizen in this country should know in order to be able to vote.

I cannot violate your 8th amendment rights, Idiot

Only the government can violate your 8th amendment rights

You dumbfuck. I've told you at least 3 times now I never said that. I said they share the same PRINCIPLE. If you agree with the Constitution which gives citizens protection against cruel and unusual punishment, then in life, if you don't feel the same way, you are a hypocrite, which you've proven.

You said that the guy DESERVED TO DIE, for committing simple assault by pushing the guy to the ground. The punishment does not fit the crime.

All right FUCK WAD

quote the post where I said he deserved to die

You said in this thread that him being dumb enough to assault him, he deserved to die. If I'm going to look through all these pages to give the the exact post number it is going to be worth my while. So you want to bet on it?

You're the one who is obligated to prove the claims you make

so prove it or admit to being the lying sack of shit that you are

 

[kaz]

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

If he was just yelling?

I would have ignored him

If he put his hands on them or tried to open the car doors that's a different story

You'd ignore some nutcase yelling at your family for where you parked, but if he touched you, you'd waste him. I'd say that's a good argument, but wow, it's not

That's what I think too.

So you advocate shrinking from confrontation and extreme escalation from a shove to killing someone. Got it

 

[kaz]

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

I sure as fuck wouldnt assault him!!!
Thats a good way to get shot.......oh wait.

It's also a good way to get shot standing outside someone's wife's car yelling at her for where she parked. Or in this case, it's a good way to get to shoot someone, which was his goal

another mind reader

Go to the one minute mark on the video and watch the next 20 seconds

 

[Skull Pilot]

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

If he was just yelling?

I would have ignored him

If he put his hands on them or tried to open the car doors that's a different story

You'd ignore some nutcase yelling at your family for where you parked, but if he touched you, you'd waste him. I'd say that's a good argument, but wow, it's not

That's what I think too.

So you advocate shrinking from confrontation and extreme escalation from a shove to killing someone. Got it

I guess I am mature enough to know that some wacko yelling doesn't equal a threat to my or my wife's safety

I'll ask you again

If you were blindsided by a person much larger than you and laid out on the pavement would you feel your life might be in danger?

 

[miketx]

Lol. Close this idiot fest topic.

 

[Lewdog]

I'm for common sense laws like not letting fucking people like those getting Federal disability for a mental condition being allowed to buy guns for one... which was the VERY first executive order Trump signed when he became President.

No it wasnt
Which executive orders did Trump sign on Day One?

Sorry it was the first bill he signed privately and refuses to release a picture of him signing it.

President Trump Made It Easier for Mentally Ill People to Buy Guns

 

[kaz]

I'm of the mind that you don't assault people
I don't care that people who assault others get dead

Again, so do you believe in the Constitution or not? I want to make sure to hold you to this.

The constitution has nothing to do with it

The 8th amendment applies to bail and sentences passed by the government

Yeah, the punishment should fit the crime. You are fucking arguing that the guy deserved the death penalty for pushing the guy down. You fucking believe in the Constitution or not. It's based on the same principle.

WTF? You don't even know what the Constitution is, Democrats never do. The Constitution is a limitation on government. Where the fuck do you get that the bill of rights are powers of government? That's completely moronic.

Murder is State law, not Federal law

What in the fuck are you talking about? I never said murder was a federal law. However the 8th Amendment gives citizens protection against cruel and unusual punishment.

Again, you don't even know what the Constitution is. The Constitution is a LIMIT on Federal power. The GOVERNMENT cannot give you cruel and unusual punishment. That's what the eighth says. The Constitution is not a power of the Federal government to go out and control citizens behavior between each other.

How do you not know what the Constitution is? That's pathetic

 

[Skull Pilot]

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

I sure as fuck wouldnt assault him!!!
Thats a good way to get shot.......oh wait.

It's also a good way to get shot standing outside someone's wife's car yelling at her for where she parked. Or in this case, it's a good way to get to shoot someone, which was his goal

another mind reader

Go to the one minute mark on the video and watch the next 20 seconds

There was no audio on the video in the parking lot so you don't know what the guy was saying

 

[Lewdog]

Theory that is still being studied today is still being studied today because it is supported by reality.

Reality supports that disarming honest citizens while doing nothing about armed psychos stops shootings. Got it. Thanks for pointing that out

Disarming honest citizens? That's the funny thing, you don't know who is an honest responsible citizen until they either fuck up or don't. You just argued all these pages that this guy is a murderer and is an irresponsible gun owner... well by your logic there is nothing that could be done about it, because he had lived 50+ years without shooting and killing anyone to this point.

Here's a hint. The honest citizens are the ones who follow the law and disarm.

The psychos who don't disarm and shoot them aren't honest citizens.

I realize that was very subtle

And I told you that you don't know who the honest and dishonest ones until they do something dishonest. This isn't Minority Report where psychics tell you ahead of time who will commit crimes.

Asked and answered. They identify themselves. Your law identifies them as the honest ones follow the law and the dishonest ones don't. Then you've created a situation where the dishonest ones are the only ones armed. Good job

This idiot that murdered this man was a legal gun owner. You can't have it both ways.

 

[kaz]

Concealed permit holder right ?? Are you suggesting that concealed carry permits are found in cracker jack boxes ??

Where is there any stipulation on being trained to overcome emotion?

An NRA pistol safety class does not train people to overcome emotion

However, it would train people to avoid rather than create conflict as the test way to prevent shootings, however. And the goal is to avoid a shooting if at all possible, not just justify a shooting.

If you were carrying, would you start screaming at another guys's woman over where she was parked? You see any risk of that turning into a shooting?

I don't yell at anyone

but then again yelling at a person is not a crime while forcibly assaulting a person is

Threatening people is a crime.

So seriously, you'd let someone scream at your wife for where you'd parked.

Again with the stupid argument

Shoving someone who is threatening your wife is an unreasonable escallation

Killing someone who shoves you for yelling at his wife is perfectly good.

That's totally idiotic

Do you know he was threatening anyone

There was no audio

Look no matter how you slice it the guy yelling was assaulted by the much larger guy

Would you feel your life might be in danger if a guy who was much bigger than you blindsided you and knocked you on your ass?

Go to the one minute mark of the video and watch the next 20 seconds

 

[Skull Pilot]

Where is there any stipulation on being trained to overcome emotion?

An NRA pistol safety class does not train people to overcome emotion

However, it would train people to avoid rather than create conflict as the test way to prevent shootings, however. And the goal is to avoid a shooting if at all possible, not just justify a shooting.

If you were carrying, would you start screaming at another guys's woman over where she was parked? You see any risk of that turning into a shooting?

I don't yell at anyone

but then again yelling at a person is not a crime while forcibly assaulting a person is

Threatening people is a crime.

So seriously, you'd let someone scream at your wife for where you'd parked.

Again with the stupid argument

Shoving someone who is threatening your wife is an unreasonable escallation

Killing someone who shoves you for yelling at his wife is perfectly good.

That's totally idiotic

Do you know he was threatening anyone

There was no audio

Look no matter how you slice it the guy yelling was assaulted by the much larger guy

Would you feel your life might be in danger if a guy who was much bigger than you blindsided you and knocked you on your ass?

Go to the one minute mark of the video and watch the next 20 seconds

I watched it once

I'm not watching it again

How about you answer my question?