Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[kaz]

However, it would train people to avoid rather than create conflict as the test way to prevent shootings, however. And the goal is to avoid a shooting if at all possible, not just justify a shooting.

If you were carrying, would you start screaming at another guys's woman over where she was parked? You see any risk of that turning into a shooting?

This kind of thing is why in many states that have CCW, still have laws where you can't wear the gun into an establishment that serves alcohol. If you got guys like this idiot that can't be responsible with his gun in a situation like this, could you imagine how many people would get killed if you had a bunch of CCW people getting drunk off their ass?

Typical Democrat argument, argue from theory, ignore reality.

In reality, the psycho WOULD carry the gun in the bar while everyone else would obey the law and be unarmed to defend themselves.

This happens over and over and yet you have a complete inability to learn from reality

Theory that is still being studied today is still being studied today because it is supported by reality.

Reality supports that disarming honest citizens while doing nothing about armed psychos stops shootings. Got it. Thanks for pointing that out

Disarming honest citizens? That's the funny thing, you don't know who is an honest responsible citizen until they either fuck up or don't. You just argued all these pages that this guy is a murderer and is an irresponsible gun owner... well by your logic there is nothing that could be done about it, because he had lived 50+ years without shooting and killing anyone to this point.

Here's a hint. The honest citizens are the ones who follow the law and disarm.

The psychos who don't disarm and shoot them aren't honest citizens.

I realize that was very subtle

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Hey, a punk ass gun nut with a concealed carry permit considers women and children a fair fight.

Or a threat in this case.

If that was a white woman with kids in the car, this thread wouldn't even exist.

Hey. Madame Cleo... There are actual facts relevant to this incident. Let’s use those.... Mmkay?

You mean facts like in other threads you've been proud to announce how proud you are to be white and you think Black people are inferior?

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

I sure as fuck wouldnt assault him!!!
Thats a good way to get shot.......oh wait.

It's also a good way to get shot standing outside someone's wife's car yelling at her for where she parked. Or in this case, it's a good way to get to shoot someone, which was his goal

Pure conjecture, with no way whatsoever to prove. That's what you need to believe, to justify the assault of the man. Sobering moment isn't it? To think.... "That could have been me"... Indeed. It could, if one thinks they can assault someone without repercussion. Indeed....

A friend's son's Jeep was in the process of being stolen, and the dad went and jumped on the hood of the get away vehicle once he stopped the Jeep from being stolen, but the crooks floored it throwing him from the hood, and he broke some bones in the process. Yeah he was crazy to do what he did, and yes he was defending his son's honor in showing how much he loved him by not allowing his Jeep to be stolen on his first day of college, but it cost him in the end.

It doesn't make the crooks any less crooks, and they got away, but he said he would do it again except for the part that got him hurt.

Thats stupid.
He should have just shot em.

 

[Lewdog]

This kind of thing is why in many states that have CCW, still have laws where you can't wear the gun into an establishment that serves alcohol. If you got guys like this idiot that can't be responsible with his gun in a situation like this, could you imagine how many people would get killed if you had a bunch of CCW people getting drunk off their ass?

Typical Democrat argument, argue from theory, ignore reality.

In reality, the psycho WOULD carry the gun in the bar while everyone else would obey the law and be unarmed to defend themselves.

This happens over and over and yet you have a complete inability to learn from reality

Theory that is still being studied today is still being studied today because it is supported by reality.

Reality supports that disarming honest citizens while doing nothing about armed psychos stops shootings. Got it. Thanks for pointing that out

Disarming honest citizens? That's the funny thing, you don't know who is an honest responsible citizen until they either fuck up or don't. You just argued all these pages that this guy is a murderer and is an irresponsible gun owner... well by your logic there is nothing that could be done about it, because he had lived 50+ years without shooting and killing anyone to this point.

Here's a hint. The honest citizens are the ones who follow the law and disarm.

The psychos who don't disarm and shoot them aren't honest citizens.

I realize that was very subtle

And I told you that you don't know who the honest and dishonest ones until they do something dishonest. This isn't Minority Report where psychics tell you ahead of time who will commit crimes.

 

[Vastator]

Hey, a punk ass gun nut with a concealed carry permit considers women and children a fair fight.

Or a threat in this case.

If that was a white woman with kids in the car, this thread wouldn't even exist.

Hey. Madame Cleo... There are actual facts relevant to this incident. Let’s use those.... Mmkay?

You mean facts like in other threads you've been proud to announce how proud you are to be white and you think Black people are inferior?

Show the facts. Don't tell us about "them". Don't worry. Well wait...

Oh, so now you are going to deny it? This should be fun. So you're going to say now that you haven't said you are proud to be white and think Blacks are inferior to whites?

I am encouraging you to prove your claim. Facts are all that matter. Since you seem to relish the opportunity; have at it. Just make sure it's relevant to the topic.

 

[beagle9]

Good Grief... Defending her honor as in you love her enough not to allow her to be threatened or verbally abused by a mental midjet trying to defend the honor of the handicap parking spot in an abusive way.

Doesn't give you right to put your hands on and slam someone to the ground. Use your big boy words.

I would bet that if someone was cursing at your wife with your kids in the car, you would have reacted the same wouldn't you ?? I know what I would have done, and I might not be here either. Ohh well.

 

[kaz]

Pushing someone down can cause death but its not lethal force. Do you understand the difference?

Do you understand what an officer means when he says lethal force? Doesnt seem like it, and I dont care to try to teach someone who cant understand something so simplistic

i understand the difference. It can cause death and its used as force....its lethal force.

Yeah, no. Nobodys ever been convicted of attempted murder for pushing someone down. If a push results in a death its also not murder, its involuntary manslaughter by virtue of a push NOT being considered lethal in intent.

Give it a fuckin break...an obsessive compulsive threatening to shoot people over a damn parking spot being pushed away from a woman and children is what youre defending as cause for murder in spite of the pusher doing what any grown man should do to a nutbag approaching his family


you perhaps dont belong owning deadly weaponry, either. life is more valuable than a killing in retaliation for a push.

Bam! Perfectly stated

Im pro gun rights but the mentality of anyone thinking this is OK makes me question being pretty pro regulation...I dunno. Its def. a downer that people are so irrational like that.

I'm of the mind that you don't assault people
I don't care that people who assault others get dead

You're just the hero who would let psychotic men scream at your wife in parking lots. I actually doubt your story you would do that.

The psycho who murdered him staged the event and repeated it until he got what he wanted, to kill someone. If you repeatedly yell at people for where they park, someone will respond. No responsible gun owner would ever condone a trap that is certain to end in a shooting. Then there's you ...

 

[OODA_Loop]

I would bet that if someone was cursing at your wife with your kids in the car, you would have reacted the same wouldn't you ?? I know what I would have done, and I might not be here either. Ohh well.

No. I am armed and I would find myself in situation with two outcomes: I have to fight and retain a weapon or shoot someone.

Ill pass on both. However, if I or they were assaulted game on.

 

[kaz]

Yeah, no. Nobodys ever been convicted of attempted murder for pushing someone down. If a push results in a death its also not murder, its involuntary manslaughter by virtue of a push NOT being considered lethal in intent.

Give it a fuckin break...an obsessive compulsive threatening to shoot people over a damn parking spot being pushed away from a woman and children is what youre defending as cause for murder in spite of the pusher doing what any grown man should do to a nutbag approaching his family


you perhaps dont belong owning deadly weaponry, either. life is more valuable than a killing in retaliation for a push.

Bam! Perfectly stated

Im pro gun rights but the mentality of anyone thinking this is OK makes me question being pretty pro regulation...I dunno. Its def. a downer that people are so irrational like that.

Well, notice that the majority of second amendment supporters are not on the side of the shooter.

But yes, that this many people would argue that yelling at a woman over where she parked while packing is not an unreasonably dangerous situation to create is a bit scary

I haven’t heard a single poster endorse the confrontation of the woman, who parked in the handicapped spot.

it wasn't a crime so it doesn't matter

It doesn't matter if a psycho man screams at your wife in a parking lot. You are so full of shit

 

[kaz]

i understand the difference. It can cause death and its used as force....its lethal force.

Yeah, no. Nobodys ever been convicted of attempted murder for pushing someone down. If a push results in a death its also not murder, its involuntary manslaughter by virtue of a push NOT being considered lethal in intent.

Give it a fuckin break...an obsessive compulsive threatening to shoot people over a damn parking spot being pushed away from a woman and children is what youre defending as cause for murder in spite of the pusher doing what any grown man should do to a nutbag approaching his family


you perhaps dont belong owning deadly weaponry, either. life is more valuable than a killing in retaliation for a push.

Bam! Perfectly stated

Im pro gun rights but the mentality of anyone thinking this is OK makes me question being pretty pro regulation...I dunno. Its def. a downer that people are so irrational like that.

I'm of the mind that you don't assault people
I don't care that people who assault others get dead

Again, so do you believe in the Constitution or not? I want to make sure to hold you to this.

What does that have to do with "the Constitution?"

 

[Flash]

Clearwater yankee transplant and Negroes arguing over a parking place. What could possible go wrong?

 

[kaz]

Bam! Perfectly stated

Im pro gun rights but the mentality of anyone thinking this is OK makes me question being pretty pro regulation...I dunno. Its def. a downer that people are so irrational like that.

I'm of the mind that you don't assault people
I don't care that people who assault others get dead

Again, so do you believe in the Constitution or not? I want to make sure to hold you to this.

The constitution has nothing to do with it

The 8th amendment applies to bail and sentences passed by the government

Yeah, the punishment should fit the crime. You are fucking arguing that the guy deserved the death penalty for pushing the guy down. You fucking believe in the Constitution or not. It's based on the same principle.

WTF? You don't even know what the Constitution is, Democrats never do. The Constitution is a limitation on government. Where the fuck do you get that the bill of rights are powers of government? That's completely moronic.

Murder is State law, not Federal law

 

[BlackFlag]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

The victim should have taken the gun from the weak murderer and killed him as his final act.

 

[beagle9]

If that was a white woman with kids in the car, this thread wouldn't even exist.

Hey. Madame Cleo... There are actual facts relevant to this incident. Let’s use those.... Mmkay?

You mean facts like in other threads you've been proud to announce how proud you are to be white and you think Black people are inferior?

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

I sure as fuck wouldnt assault him!!!
Thats a good way to get shot.......oh wait.

It's also a good way to get shot standing outside someone's wife's car yelling at her for where she parked. Or in this case, it's a good way to get to shoot someone, which was his goal

Pure conjecture, with no way whatsoever to prove. That's what you need to believe, to justify the assault of the man. Sobering moment isn't it? To think.... "That could have been me"... Indeed. It could, if one thinks they can assault someone without repercussion. Indeed....

A friend's son's Jeep was in the process of being stolen, and the dad went and jumped on the hood of the get away vehicle once he stopped the Jeep from being stolen, but the crooks floored it throwing him from the hood, and he broke some bones in the process. Yeah he was crazy to do what he did, and yes he was defending his son's honor in showing how much he loved him by not allowing his Jeep to be stolen on his first day of college, but it cost him in the end.

It doesn't make the crooks any less crooks, and they got away, but he said he would do it again except for the part that got him hurt.

Thats stupid.
He should have just shot em.

We'll he probably would have, but many factors were involved that held him back.. He is the kind that would have shot them, so they better be glad he was unarmed on that day.

 

[beagle9]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

The victim should have taken the gun from the weak murderer and killed him as his final act.

What would have happened then ??

 

[Skull Pilot]

Wow you really don't know that the Bill of rights applies to the government not the citizens?

People cannot set bail or pass sentences for crimes only the government can do that

I do know, that's why I said they share the same principle. Do you not know what that means?

Hell you keep saying the 8th Amendment is just about bail. No the 8th Amendment's MAIN topic is Cruel and Unusual Punishment. Do you know what that means? That means the punishment should fit the crime... and that everyone should be punished equally. So when you say that a guy that pushed a guy to the ground deserves to die, you show how little morals you have. Then if you want to say that, but then the next minute say you support the Constitution, then you just admit your a hypocrite.

So, what is it then? You are either stupid, racist, a hypocrite, a troll, or a liar based on the comments you've made in this thread.

I'll let you chose.

They don't share the same principal at all.

The guy who shot in what he considered to be self defense after being blindsided by a much larger person will not be charged with violating the 8th amendment.

He will be charged with some degree of murder and tried for it.

If he can justify the shooting he will walk

They don't? If you break the law, the punishment you receive is dictated by the Bill of Rights in the 8th Amendment that you can not receive a punishment that the courts rule are cruel and unusual compared to the severity of the crime. That's EXACTLY the same principle. But see the issue here is you are a hypocrite that lacks morals. You'd rather defend and try to scapegoat a murderer, instead of admitting a legal gun carrying citizen abused his right.

No it's not it's dictated by the laws and statutes of the state the crime was committed in

Wow. The Bill of Rights has power over the states given to it by Due Process through the 14th Amendment.

Our educational system is seriously failing our country. Some of the stuff in this thread EVERY citizen in this country should know in order to be able to vote.

I cannot violate your 8th amendment rights, Idiot

Only the government can violate your 8th amendment rights

 

[BlackFlag]

Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

In the link below is an article with a video that shows a "stand your ground" incident in Clearwater Florida. A women illegally parked in a handicapped spot and got into an argument with a man who confronted her about it. The women's boyfriend, who was in the store at the time, comes out to see the argument and pushes the man to the ground. With the man on the ground he pulls out a gun and aims at the man who assaulted him. The man who committed the assault then backs up. Despite backing away, the man fires his gun anyways hitting the man in the chest. The injured man then runs into the store where he collapses on the ground and dies in front of his five your old son.


My opinion:

Both the women and her boyfriend committed illegal acts which led to the incident. But, I do not feel the man who was assaulted was justified in shooting his attacker. The Attacker had backed off after the gun was pulled. Parking in handicap spot and pushing someone to the ground or both illegal, but punishment for those actions would never warrant the death penalty. Had the attacker continued to assault or move towards the man pushed to the ground, then you might have a case where shooting the gun might be warranted. But that is not what happened. The attacker backed away after the gun was pulled. Then he was shot and killed, dying in front of his five year old son in the store. The man has two other children as well.

I've seen people get pushed to the ground like that in the school yard. Its wrong, you have a right to defend yourself. But in this case, taking another mans life was NOT justified. Call the police and the film of the incident would be enough evidence to punish the attacker in an appropriate manner.

The article and video of the incident are in the link below:

https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/stand...r-in-deadly-fight-over-parking-space-sheriff/

media link from youtube:

The victim should have taken the gun from the weak murderer and killed him as his final act.

What would have happened then ??

Both would be dead. One less trigger-happy nutjob walking around.

 

[kaz]

I'd escalate the situation by not screaming at another guy's woman in a parking lot while I'm packing? Seriously? How does that make sense?

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

Actually, yelling (threatening someone) is assault – it can be either a misdemeanor or a felony; battery is physical contact, a felony.

And in Florida either warrant the use of deadly force as a means of self-defense when the person attacked has a reasonable fear of bodily injury or death from the attacker, even if that attack is verbal in nature only.

You have no idea what the guy was saying.
Battery,what the black guy did is assault

You have no idea what the law is: there is no difference between yelling and assault – ‘big’ or otherwise.

Yelling can be perceived as a threat, justifying the use of deadly force as self-defense; physical contact (battery) is not required to justify the use of deadly force in Florida.

Yelling at someone is not assault.

Not unless you're threatening them, which he was. It was a full grown man and a woman who was yelling at her over where she parked. Her boyfriend had every right and responsibility to protect her

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'd escalate the situation by not screaming at another guy's woman in a parking lot while I'm packing? Seriously? How does that make sense?

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

If he was just yelling?

I would have ignored him

If he put his hands on them or tried to open the car doors that's a different story

You'd ignore some nutcase yelling at your family for where you parked, but if he touched you, you'd waste him. I'd say that's a good argument, but wow, it's not

That's what I think too.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Victim blaming now? Maybe the rape victim should have dressed less provocatively as well, eh?

Your Demon-crat is showing, best cover up.

She was verbally attacked no right to lethal self-defense.

Guy that got shot initiated a hands on attack Thats what got him shot, No right to lethal self-defense.

Well that's good because the self-defense used on him wasn't lethal. He was just pushed down.

Because the assault on him wasn’t committed in defense of “self”. Are you even trying to be serious?

Self defense of his woman means nothing eh ?? Remember this, before you choose to use self defense in regards to another person being assaulted or attacked you best think twice, because if you intervene you could be the one killed, and unless you are willing to risk life and limb, then just stay home and never go anywhere.

The victim hadn’t assaulted, or attacked anyone. Quit trying to resort to a “Red Herring”. It doesn’t help you prove your case...

You calling the live guy the victim in disregards to the dead guy is quite interesting. I refer to the dead guy as the victim, because he shouldn't be dead to begin with.

The live guy is the victim of an assault committed by the now dead guy

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'd escalate the situation by not screaming at another guy's woman in a parking lot while I'm packing? Seriously? How does that make sense?

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

I sure as fuck wouldnt assault him!!!
Thats a good way to get shot.......oh wait.

It's also a good way to get shot standing outside someone's wife's car yelling at her for where she parked. Or in this case, it's a good way to get to shoot someone, which was his goal

another mind reader