LDS church and children of LGBT couples: Jesus weeps

[JakeStarkey]

This is the narrative and path of grief of, Jerilyn P, a step-mother of a boy who returned from his weekly visit to his gay mother.

“This is the first day our 12yo son is back at our home, after his usual week at his (gay) mom's home. He made it halfway through school before he said he was "sick" and had my husband pick him up. Usually he is so positive and easy going, but ever since these policies hit and we learned he would not be ordained, he has been depressed and anxious. He is afraid he will be "unbaptized" and "kicked out". We are looking into therapy for him to help him process and keep him from spiraling into depression. I'm sick for him, for us. The damage this will do to him, a 7th grader already dealing with middle school and two homes, and a separation at his other home. Now he has to lose his church, too. Not only him, but our whole family - me, my husband, my 8 year old who was supposed to be baptized (next week!), my younger sons who may never know our religion... I can't even bear to think of life without our church yet."

“I told our bishop that we didn't quit the church, the church quit us. Everyone says well, maybe they will make an exception. But what kind of parents would we be if we raised our teenage son to "disavow" his mom? Even the fact that I have to categorize her as his "gay mom" makes me upset. The cruelty of this whole situation has me questioning the entirety of my faith, and honestly I feel like I'm going through the stages of grief. I think I'm somewhere between denial and anger right now. I so desperately want to have the church announce a fix for this, but even if they did, this cannot be undone for us.”

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

My mother taught me at her knee how to kneel, how to fold my little arms, and how to pray to the One, she assured me, Who loved all little children forever and forever, to Him, Who would always love us never mind whatever happened. Jesus, she assured me, always suffers the little ones to come unto Him.

He always has, He does now, He always will: worlds without end.

The church's policy is not Christ-centered, it is not Christian.

How do you get VA benefits? One of your own squad members throw a grenade at ya

Please stick to the topic of the thread. Thanks

 

[Michelle420]

The church all about family and kids is not really the church about family and kids. The LDS Church did and does this to polygamyous kids: it's like, Jesus says, "Get off me until you are 18, you polygamous bastard rugrats."

1. Mormon church labels same-sex couples apostates - CNN.com
   http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/us/mormon-church-policy/1 day ago ... A new Mormon church policy considers church members in same-sex marriages as apostates whose children will be barred from baptism and ...
2. Mormon Church Bans Children of Same-Sex Couples From Getting ...
   http://www.people.com/article/mormon-church-bans-children-same-sex-couples-baptized2 days ago ... Mormon Church leaders have sparked outrage with a decision to ban gay couplesfrom having their children blessed and baptized into the ...

Jesus loves everyone, the lds church doesn't.

 

[martybegan]

This is the narrative and path of grief of, Jerilyn P, a step-mother of a boy who returned from his weekly visit to his gay mother.

“This is the first day our 12yo son is back at our home, after his usual week at his (gay) mom's home. He made it halfway through school before he said he was "sick" and had my husband pick him up. Usually he is so positive and easy going, but ever since these policies hit and we learned he would not be ordained, he has been depressed and anxious. He is afraid he will be "unbaptized" and "kicked out". We are looking into therapy for him to help him process and keep him from spiraling into depression. I'm sick for him, for us. The damage this will do to him, a 7th grader already dealing with middle school and two homes, and a separation at his other home. Now he has to lose his church, too. Not only him, but our whole family - me, my husband, my 8 year old who was supposed to be baptized (next week!), my younger sons who may never know our religion... I can't even bear to think of life without our church yet."

“I told our bishop that we didn't quit the church, the church quit us. Everyone says well, maybe they will make an exception. But what kind of parents would we be if we raised our teenage son to "disavow" his mom? Even the fact that I have to categorize her as his "gay mom" makes me upset. The cruelty of this whole situation has me questioning the entirety of my faith, and honestly I feel like I'm going through the stages of grief. I think I'm somewhere between denial and anger right now. I so desperately want to have the church announce a fix for this, but even if they did, this cannot be undone for us.”

The simple solution is to leave the Church. Everyone expects everyone else to bend to their will, to give them the "happy" solution.

Life sucks sometimes, deal with it.

 

[Michelle420]

This is the narrative and path of grief of, Jerilyn P, a step-mother of a boy who returned from his weekly visit to his gay mother.

“This is the first day our 12yo son is back at our home, after his usual week at his (gay) mom's home. He made it halfway through school before he said he was "sick" and had my husband pick him up. Usually he is so positive and easy going, but ever since these policies hit and we learned he would not be ordained, he has been depressed and anxious. He is afraid he will be "unbaptized" and "kicked out". We are looking into therapy for him to help him process and keep him from spiraling into depression. I'm sick for him, for us. The damage this will do to him, a 7th grader already dealing with middle school and two homes, and a separation at his other home. Now he has to lose his church, too. Not only him, but our whole family - me, my husband, my 8 year old who was supposed to be baptized (next week!), my younger sons who may never know our religion... I can't even bear to think of life without our church yet."

“I told our bishop that we didn't quit the church, the church quit us. Everyone says well, maybe they will make an exception. But what kind of parents would we be if we raised our teenage son to "disavow" his mom? Even the fact that I have to categorize her as his "gay mom" makes me upset. The cruelty of this whole situation has me questioning the entirety of my faith, and honestly I feel like I'm going through the stages of grief. I think I'm somewhere between denial and anger right now. I so desperately want to have the church announce a fix for this, but even if they did, this cannot be undone for us.”

The simple solution is to leave the Church. Everyone expects everyone else to bend to their will, to give them the "happy" solution.

Life sucks sometimes, deal with it.

What if an 8 year old wants to join the church, why should he/she be rejected?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Are already baptized children of gays to be dis-baptized?

Here is another post.

"I have two moms. I love them. After this new policy was announced, my bishop contacted me to say that if they want to visit me and their grandchildren, they have to stay in separate bedrooms. Or I will face mandatory discipline."

 

[JakeStarkey]

“In some minds there seems to be an idea that there should be a different form of blessing for children born of non-members and for those who are identified with the Church; and it is from such sources that in the case of children belonging to members of the Church ‘the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob’ and all the attendant favors are frequently conferred upon the child. This is all wrong. If we take the example of our Lord and Redeemer, who is our pattern and whose example we cannot too closely follow, we find that He blessed all who were brought to Him. We have no hint that He asked whose children they were, or the standing or faith of their parents. His remark was, ‘Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven;’ and He laid His hands upon them and blessed them. All little children, no matter what their parentage may be, are innocent in the sight of heaven, and they should be received as such and blessed as such.” George Q. Cannon, First Counselor in the First Presidency, 1899.
The Editor [George Q. Cannon], “Topics of the Times,” Juvenile Instructor 34 (March 1, 1899): 137-138. Reprinted in Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star 61 (March 30, 1899), 198-199; Latter-day Saints’ Southern Star 1 (April 29, 1899): 170.

 

[tyroneweaver]

“In some minds there seems to be an idea that there should be a different form of blessing for children born of non-members and for those who are identified with the Church; and it is from such sources that in the case of children belonging to members of the Church ‘the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob’ and all the attendant favors are frequently conferred upon the child. This is all wrong. If we take the example of our Lord and Redeemer, who is our pattern and whose example we cannot too closely follow, we find that He blessed all who were brought to Him. We have no hint that He asked whose children they were, or the standing or faith of their parents. His remark was, ‘Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven;’ and He laid His hands upon them and blessed them. All little children, no matter what their parentage may be, are innocent in the sight of heaven, and they should be received as such and blessed as such.” George Q. Cannon, First Counselor in the First Presidency, 1899.
The Editor [George Q. Cannon], “Topics of the Times,” Juvenile Instructor 34 (March 1, 1899): 137-138. Reprinted in Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star 61 (March 30, 1899), 198-199; Latter-day Saints’ Southern Star 1 (April 29, 1899): 170.

1.Heritage comes from a mother and a father
2. Cannon topic doesn't apply here because op doesn't have the authority to interpret Cannon's remarks
3. Author comes from the stand point of extreme prejudice against Mormons. He sat on his mother's knee who taught him to love children and hate Mormons

Simple as that folks

 

[JakeStarkey]

“In some minds there seems to be an idea that there should be a different form of blessing for children born of non-members and for those who are identified with the Church; and it is from such sources that in the case of children belonging to members of the Church ‘the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob’ and all the attendant favors are frequently conferred upon the child. This is all wrong. If we take the example of our Lord and Redeemer, who is our pattern and whose example we cannot too closely follow, we find that He blessed all who were brought to Him. We have no hint that He asked whose children they were, or the standing or faith of their parents. His remark was, ‘Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven;’ and He laid His hands upon them and blessed them. All little children, no matter what their parentage may be, are innocent in the sight of heaven, and they should be received as such and blessed as such.” George Q. Cannon, First Counselor in the First Presidency, 1899.
The Editor [George Q. Cannon], “Topics of the Times,” Juvenile Instructor 34 (March 1, 1899): 137-138. Reprinted in Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star 61 (March 30, 1899), 198-199; Latter-day Saints’ Southern Star 1 (April 29, 1899): 170.

1.Heritage comes from a mother and a father
2. Cannon topic doesn't apply here because op doesn't have the authority to interpret Cannon's remarks
3. Author comes from the stand point of extreme prejudice against Mormons. He sat on his mother's knee who taught him to love children and hate Mormons Simple as that folks

1. Heritage comes from family.
2. Cannon's remarks do apply, because tyroneweaver neither knows his church's history and doctrine, nor can he speak on its behalf with authority.
3. My mother taught me to be respect all believers. Three of her closest friends were active LDS temple-going women. She taught me love not hate God's creation and people. She always praised the LDS commitment to family.
4. This action would have been incomprehensible to her because it hurts an entire class of children.

 

[tyroneweaver]

1. A family defined by who? If you quote Cannon, then you have to quote The Proclamation of the Family
2. See #1
3. False, because you brag about being a veteran, that kills people and destroys things
4. Passover, and Killing of the innocents refutes this. God could have killed Herod before this.

 

[martybegan]

This is the narrative and path of grief of, Jerilyn P, a step-mother of a boy who returned from his weekly visit to his gay mother.

“This is the first day our 12yo son is back at our home, after his usual week at his (gay) mom's home. He made it halfway through school before he said he was "sick" and had my husband pick him up. Usually he is so positive and easy going, but ever since these policies hit and we learned he would not be ordained, he has been depressed and anxious. He is afraid he will be "unbaptized" and "kicked out". We are looking into therapy for him to help him process and keep him from spiraling into depression. I'm sick for him, for us. The damage this will do to him, a 7th grader already dealing with middle school and two homes, and a separation at his other home. Now he has to lose his church, too. Not only him, but our whole family - me, my husband, my 8 year old who was supposed to be baptized (next week!), my younger sons who may never know our religion... I can't even bear to think of life without our church yet."

“I told our bishop that we didn't quit the church, the church quit us. Everyone says well, maybe they will make an exception. But what kind of parents would we be if we raised our teenage son to "disavow" his mom? Even the fact that I have to categorize her as his "gay mom" makes me upset. The cruelty of this whole situation has me questioning the entirety of my faith, and honestly I feel like I'm going through the stages of grief. I think I'm somewhere between denial and anger right now. I so desperately want to have the church announce a fix for this, but even if they did, this cannot be undone for us.”

The simple solution is to leave the Church. Everyone expects everyone else to bend to their will, to give them the "happy" solution.

Life sucks sometimes, deal with it.

What if an 8 year old wants to join the church, why should he/she be rejected?

because we don't interfere with religions in this country, or at least that's the concept.

Again, life is not always fair.

 

[martybegan]

Are already baptized children of gays to be dis-baptized?

Here is another post.

"I have two moms. I love them. After this new policy was announced, my bishop contacted me to say that if they want to visit me and their grandchildren, they have to stay in separate bedrooms. Or I will face mandatory discipline."

Got a link? Or are you making it up?

 

[JakeStarkey]

JakeStarkey

1. Heritage comes from family.
2. Cannon's remarks do apply, because tyroneweaver neither knows his church's history and doctrine, nor can he speak on its behalf with authority.
3. My mother taught me to be respect all believers. Three of her closest friends were active LDS temple-going women. She taught me love not hate God's creation and people. She always praised the LDS commitment to family.
4. This action would have been incomprehensible to her because it hurts an entire class of children.

tyroneweaver replied:
1. A family defined by who? If you quote Cannon, then you have to quote The Proclamation of the Family
2. See #1
3. False, because you brag about being a veteran, that kills people and destroys things
4. Passover, and Killing of the innocents refutes this. God could have killed Herod before this.

1. You have no authority to define family or ordinances for people differently than Cannon.
2. See #1 above.
3. That is the second time you have obliquely attacked my mother. This is your only warning to stop it. She loved the Mormon people and prayed daily that a great work and miracle would occur among them. I served honorably, as did the four Mormons in my platoon. Your Second Counselor in the First Presidency was a fighter pilot in the German Air Force. Thomas Monson, your President, served in the USNR and was granted in 1950 after years of service an exemption to leave so he could be a Bishop.
4. Your #4 makes no sense. We are talking about Our Lord and Savior, Jesus, Who calls all children to come unto Him.

You have such anger in you, tyrone. Why? Jesus is about Love, is about all of His children, you and me among them, but particularly the children.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Are already baptized children of gays to be dis-baptized?

Here is another post.

"I have two moms. I love them. After this new policy was announced, my bishop contacted me to say that if they want to visit me and their grandchildren, they have to stay in separate bedrooms. Or I will face mandatory discipline."

Got a link? Or are you making it up?

Yep, and it is anonymous, so that tyroneweaver can't attack her.

But here is a link exploring the time line of children and polygamy and gay families concerning the LDS Church.

Children and the handbooks timeline | Exploring Mormonism

 

[martybegan]

Are already baptized children of gays to be dis-baptized?

Here is another post.

"I have two moms. I love them. After this new policy was announced, my bishop contacted me to say that if they want to visit me and their grandchildren, they have to stay in separate bedrooms. Or I will face mandatory discipline."

Got a link? Or are you making it up?

Yep, and it is anonymous, so that tyroneweaver can't attack her.

But here is a link exploring the time line of children and polygamy and gay families concerning the LDS Church.

Children and the handbooks timeline | Exploring Mormonism

So they basically expanded the polygamy policy to same sex marriage.

Again, if people are butthurt about it, leave the Church. When a kid hits 18 they have a choice to make, the church or their parent in a SSM.

Again, life sucks sometimes.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The polygamy principle was detailed (wrongly, in my opinion) to a small group of people the LDS Church wanted to keep out of their Temples. They did not want polygamists to go to the Temple to receive their endowments, sealings, washings, and so forth.

In this case, we are talking about children of families, and many of them with close ties to the church and to family members in the church, being denied baptism.

That is not anywhere near "suffer the little children to come unto me."

As far as go elsewhere, the church hqs have been notified today by its bishops and local authorities of more than 1,000 resignations, and are expecting it to be more than 10,000 by the end of the week, and as many as 200,000 by Christmas.

A more insidious assault on the Church is being organized, I hear, as a blue tithing slow down.

 

[pillars]

Their roof, their rules.

Yup, their asses getting kicked.

Other then their own congregation, by whom? If this policy goes over like stone furniture than the members of their congregation will demand a change.

It will be like the Southern Baptist denomination and their stance on women, people will vote with their feet, just like I did. In fact, their stance on women triggered me to reexamine religion entirely and wound up with me becoming a pagan. Our kids do not share our biases against gays/lesbians, and will not participate in religions in the long run that do these things.

Why Are Southern Baptists Shrinking? | Virtueonline – The Voice for Global Orthodox Anglicanism

At the end of the day, sometimes that is all you can do, vote with your feet.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I’ll just remind everyone briefly of 1 Corinthians 13, perhaps the most quoted text in the New Testament, for good reason:

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

In the absence of understanding, of seeing things clearly, we should have charity. Prophecies–and policies–will fail, but charity will last.

Loyalty Is a Tricky Virtue

 

[JakeStarkey]

A baptist clergy member wrote this to me yesterday: "Some of the nicest, kindest, most generous people I've ever met are LDS, and I think, I really do, that the leadership is going to get push back on this because it is inconsistent with the general thrust of most Mormons life, and that is a life centered around family." I agree with that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This is well said.

Dear Straight Mormons—Dear Friends,

I love the way President Uchtdorf characteristically opens and closes his conference addresses—“My dear brethren and sisters, my dear friends.”

I get that this may seem very straight forward and cut and dry for many of you. I understand what it’s like to feel as though the world is up in arms against an organization that you and I sustain as the kingdom of God on the Earth—an organization that has brought the deepest meaning and most profound comfort to your life, and to my life. I know what it’s like to see men you love and support as witnesses of God be the subject of so much criticism and even anger. They are well meaning and good men who are doing their best to communicate the love and dictates of God to his children on Earth. It hurts, it’s confusing, it’s frightening to feel as though the whole world is against you.

I’ve felt this. And I feel it now.

Please, stay with me a moment while I try to share with your some of the pain my friends and my community have felt. I don’t ask you to disagree with something you agree with. I don’t want you to question your leaders. I just want you to sit with me for a few minutes while I tell you about myself and my friends.

For us LGBTQ or same-sex attracted Mormons, life was always going to be hard. I don’t know that people generally understand the gravity of what that looks and feels like. Our options have always been limited and painful. We can make 1 of 3 choices: Seek a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, which is not possible or healthy for a large majority of us, and a gamble much more likely to end in divorce and heartache than any heterosexual marriage. Remain celibate and stay in the Church—forgo the comfort and strength that comes with having a romantic companion, face living alone for the rest of our lives. Yes many people do not marry in this life, but no one else has to actively choose each day to not marry, to not fall in love. And finally, some of us, weighing all of the options, will choose to find a romantic partner of the same sex. Not because we hate God or the Church or its leaders, but because for some of us, it might be a choice between that and suicide.
[and it continues below]

Dear Straight Mormons