LDS church and children of LGBT couples: Jesus weeps

[JakeStarkey]

Their roof, their rules.

And if it were a secular social club or fraternity they wouldn't be called a hate group because...?

Because no hate is involved in protecting minor children from conflict they don't understand.

Yes, the children know that the LDS leadership hates them.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The church all about family and kids is not really the church about family and kids. The LDS Church did and does this to polygamyous kids: it's like, Jesus says, "Get off me until you are 18, you polygamous bastard rugrats."

1. Mormon church labels same-sex couples apostates - CNN.com
   http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/us/mormon-church-policy/1 day ago ... A new Mormon church policy considers church members in same-sex marriages as apostates whose children will be barred from baptism and ...
2. Mormon Church Bans Children of Same-Sex Couples From Getting ...
   http://www.people.com/article/mormon-church-bans-children-same-sex-couples-baptized2 days ago ... Mormon Church leaders have sparked outrage with a decision to ban gay couplesfrom having their children blessed and baptized into the ...

Jesus loves everyone, the lds church doesn't.

Nonsense. How does protecting children from family conflict occur out of lack of love? Christ said we aren't to harm children. Putting them in a position of conflict will hurt them.

You are harming children by telling them they will have to disavow their parents and by delaying their opportunity to be baptized. What if they are already baptized? Are you not going to let them take the sacrament? Are you going to sanction their membership?

And when the tithing slowdown begins and the fast offerings increase and the economic sanctions and boycotts begin, we will see what the leadership will do.

April Conference will be very, very interesting.

 

[Avatar4321]

Are already baptized children of gays to be dis-baptized?

Here is another post.

"I have two moms. I love them. After this new policy was announced, my bishop contacted me to say that if they want to visit me and their grandchildren, they have to stay in separate bedrooms. Or I will face mandatory discipline."

Got a link? Or are you making it up?

Yep, and it is anonymous, so that tyroneweaver can't attack her.

But here is a link exploring the time line of children and polygamy and gay families concerning the LDS Church.

Children and the handbooks timeline | Exploring Mormonism

So they basically expanded the polygamy policy to same sex marriage.

Again, if people are butthurt about it, leave the Church. When a kid hits 18 they have a choice to make, the church or their parent in a SSM.

Again, life sucks sometimes.

Not true. They don't have to choose between their parent and the Church at all. They can still love them without agreeing that everything they choose to is right. They can still be a part of their lives. No one is saying the parents needs to be shunned, removed from their life, or not respect as the parent. Only that the child has to recognize same sex marriage and activity is a sin.

Why do we accept this nonsense that's if we disagree with someone we need to hate them and can't love them? It's a lie. The media may try to feed it to us to push their agenda but it is a lie and always will be a lie.

I disagree with some things my wife does. I don't hate her. I love her more than life itself. I would sacrifice my life for her.

I disagree with some things my daughter does. She disappoints me sometimes. I don't hate her in the slightest. I would walk ok burning hot coals to help her.

The world has a distorted view of love right now. We are inundated with this false view that unless you agree and accept everything someone's does you hate them. I'm tired of that nonsense.

Paul defines love as it is. Maybe we should remember that instead of accepting propaganda on what the world claims is love.

 

[Avatar4321]

I’ll just remind everyone briefly of 1 Corinthians 13, perhaps the most quoted text in the New Testament, for good reason:

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

In the absence of understanding, of seeing things clearly, we should have charity. Prophecies–and policies–will fail, but charity will last.

Loyalty Is a Tricky Virtue

Which shows you know better than to lie about others.

 

[Avatar4321]

Are already baptized children of gays to be dis-baptized?

Here is another post.

"I have two moms. I love them. After this new policy was announced, my bishop contacted me to say that if they want to visit me and their grandchildren, they have to stay in separate bedrooms. Or I will face mandatory discipline."

Got a link? Or are you making it up?

The LDS church lives rent free in Jakes head.

Not as much as it lives in JoeB's head.

I'm unfamiliar with that person.

Oh he hates Mormons. He hasn't posted as much since the last presidential election but he still ma's appearances from time to time.

 

[Avatar4321]

The polygamy principle was detailed (wrongly, in my opinion) to a small group of people the LDS Church wanted to keep out of their Temples. They did not want polygamists to go to the Temple to receive their endowments, sealings, washings, and so forth.

In this case, we are talking about children of families, and many of them with close ties to the church and to family members in the church, being denied baptism.

That is not anywhere near "suffer the little children to come unto me."

As far as go elsewhere, the church hqs have been notified today by its bishops and local authorities of more than 1,000 resignations, and are expecting it to be more than 10,000 by the end of the week, and as many as 200,000 by Christmas.

A more insidious assault on the Church is being organized, I hear, as a blue tithing slow down.

Then let them vote with their feet. Again, life sucks sometimes.

They will vote as they please: to stay and try to change from the inside, to stop tithing and increase fast offerings, and to bring economic sanctions on business in Utah. It's the American way.

You had me until the last one. Government should not sanction a whole State for the acts of a religious group in its borders.

Now if you called for a boycott, privately led, then that would still be fucking stupid, but still permissible.

I said nothing about government. 90% of the state officials are LDS, so they will not be bullied that way. But the LDS and non-LDS are very sensitive to criticism and even more to economic sanctions in the private sector.

And I agree that many will vote with their feet and turn in resignations then go online and to the media.

tyroneweaver, attacking me does nothing for the discussion other than make you look rather shallow. But if you feel better for it, attack away.

Jake, this entire thread is you attacking people. I don't think you're going to come back better.

Look at the tone in your attacks. This isn't the Spirit of God influencing you. Get the Spirit.

 

[tyroneweaver]

Their roof, their rules.

Yup, their asses getting kicked.

Well, then, when you turn 18 you can join the church or not join. your choice.
Mean while we'll get to see you go thru puberty.

btw jake, do you believe in infant baptism??? Cause every one of those kids in that depiction are under age to quality for baptism.
Way to deceive the less enlightened.

Wrong question, ty. The right one is why do you discriminate against children? Why do you break up families? You obviously don't believe in baptism at eight, it's not doctrine then if you can move it willy nilly. And why do you want children to disavow their parents? Shameful.

How are we breaking up families where a husband abandons his wife and children to be with his gay partner? How are we breaking up families by requiring minor children to wait until adulthood to join the Church? Should we be proselytizing minor children and turning them against their parents instead?

This rage makes no sense. I think you will recognize that it's not the Spirit of the Lord causing your anger. The Spirit brings peace, joy, gentleness, and weakness

When you have a child deny his parent, that is breaking up a family.

Which the child would have to do if they were baptized into the church, and that's why we don't. Thx for agreeing with us.
The parents may have to bare the burden of that sin.

 

[tyroneweaver]

The church all about family and kids is not really the church about family and kids. The LDS Church did and does this to polygamyous kids: it's like, Jesus says, "Get off me until you are 18, you polygamous bastard rugrats."

1. Mormon church labels same-sex couples apostates - CNN.com
   http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/us/mormon-church-policy/1 day ago ... A new Mormon church policy considers church members in same-sex marriages as apostates whose children will be barred from baptism and ...
2. Mormon Church Bans Children of Same-Sex Couples From Getting ...
   http://www.people.com/article/mormon-church-bans-children-same-sex-couples-baptized2 days ago ... Mormon Church leaders have sparked outrage with a decision to ban gay couplesfrom having their children blessed and baptized into the ...

Jesus loves everyone, the lds church doesn't.

Nonsense. How does protecting children from family conflict occur out of lack of love? Christ said we aren't to harm children. Putting them in a position of conflict will hurt them.

You are harming children by telling them they will have to disavow their parents and by delaying their opportunity to be baptized. What if they are already baptized? Are you not going to let them take the sacrament? Are you going to sanction their membership?

And when the tithing slowdown begins and the fast offerings increase and the economic sanctions and boycotts begin, we will see what the leadership will do.

April Conference will be very, very interesting.

Dang, And I thought Foster Brooks was dead.

 

[Avatar4321]

Avatar does not support families.

Avatar does not support a church that is about children and families, because the LDS church is about separating families and making children disavow their parents.

The LDS church is anti-family and anti-children.

"Children, you got rid of the other woman. Good.
You can come unto Me now."

You can lie all you want Jake. Admitting that gay marriage isn't of God isn't anti familiy. Nor is preventing conflicts within a home.

My cousins drink. I don't believe in drinking. I have no problem stating that God doesn't want us drinking. Does this mean I'm breaking up my family or hating my cousins because they do drink?

Parents are not disavowed when you admit that they sin. Guess what. Everyone sins. Sometimes the sins are serious enough where it has to be clear that sounds convert recognizes such action as a sin. But I'm no more disavowing my father by acknowledging his sin than I am disallowing myself for acknowledging my own. I think it's vitally important to know the weaknesses of your parents because it helps you recognize what not to do in your own life.

Your being possessed by a spirit of anger and deceit right now. That's not of God. Calm down and get the Spirit of Truth. Then you will feel better and understand.

My grandpa was an alcoholic. Strange, that his grandson would be one of the best running backs BYU ever had.

And I'm sure you don't hate him because he did something you recognize as sin.

My father did and does things I know to be wrong. Recognizing that doesn't mean I've disavowed him or hate him in the slightest.

But I'm also an adult and I can tell the difference. A minor child has not fully developed and may have a lot more difficulty processing this.

 

[Avatar4321]

The church all about family and kids is not really the church about family and kids. The LDS Church did and does this to polygamyous kids: it's like, Jesus says, "Get off me until you are 18, you polygamous bastard rugrats."

1. Mormon church labels same-sex couples apostates - CNN.com
   http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/us/mormon-church-policy/1 day ago ... A new Mormon church policy considers church members in same-sex marriages as apostates whose children will be barred from baptism and ...
2. Mormon Church Bans Children of Same-Sex Couples From Getting ...
   http://www.people.com/article/mormon-church-bans-children-same-sex-couples-baptized2 days ago ... Mormon Church leaders have sparked outrage with a decision to ban gay couplesfrom having their children blessed and baptized into the ...

Jesus loves everyone, the lds church doesn't.

Nonsense. How does protecting children from family conflict occur out of lack of love? Christ said we aren't to harm children. Putting them in a position of conflict will hurt them.

Jesus loves everyone. Period.

No one said otherwise.

 

[Avatar4321]

Their roof, their rules.

Yup, their asses getting kicked.

Well, then, when you turn 18 you can join the church or not join. your choice.
Mean while we'll get to see you go thru puberty.

btw jake, do you believe in infant baptism??? Cause every one of those kids in that depiction are under age to quality for baptism.
Way to deceive the less enlightened.

Wrong question, ty. The right one is why do you discriminate against children? Why do you break up families? You obviously don't believe in baptism at eight, it's not doctrine then if you can move it willy nilly. And why do you want children to disavow their parents? Shameful.

How are we breaking up families where a husband abandons his wife and children to be with his gay partner? How are we breaking up families by requiring minor children to wait until adulthood to join the Church? Should we be proselytizing minor children and turning them against their parents instead?

This rage makes no sense. I think you will recognize that it's not the Spirit of the Lord causing your anger. The Spirit brings peace, joy, gentleness, and weakness

When you have a child deny his parent, that is breaking up a family.

How is acknowledging the sins of our parents denying them? Are you seriously trying to argue that unless we recognize that are parents are perfect and without flaw we have denied them? That's absolutely ridiculous. By that standard almost every person on earth has denied their parents.

 

[Avatar4321]

Their roof, their rules.

And if it were a secular social club or fraternity they wouldn't be called a hate group because...?

Because no hate is involved in protecting minor children from conflict they don't understand.

Yes, the children know that the LDS leadership hates them.

Is this the Spirit of God influencing you to lie like this? You have to answer this yourself.

 

[Michelle420]

The church all about family and kids is not really the church about family and kids. The LDS Church did and does this to polygamyous kids: it's like, Jesus says, "Get off me until you are 18, you polygamous bastard rugrats."

1. Mormon church labels same-sex couples apostates - CNN.com
   http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/us/mormon-church-policy/1 day ago ... A new Mormon church policy considers church members in same-sex marriages as apostates whose children will be barred from baptism and ...
2. Mormon Church Bans Children of Same-Sex Couples From Getting ...
   http://www.people.com/article/mormon-church-bans-children-same-sex-couples-baptized2 days ago ... Mormon Church leaders have sparked outrage with a decision to ban gay couplesfrom having their children blessed and baptized into the ...

Jesus loves everyone, the lds church doesn't.

Nonsense. How does protecting children from family conflict occur out of lack of love? Christ said we aren't to harm children. Putting them in a position of conflict will hurt them.

Jesus loves everyone. Period.

No one said otherwise.

Children don't need the church they have Jesus love regardless.

 

[Avatar4321]

The church all about family and kids is not really the church about family and kids. The LDS Church did and does this to polygamyous kids: it's like, Jesus says, "Get off me until you are 18, you polygamous bastard rugrats."

1. Mormon church labels same-sex couples apostates - CNN.com
   http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/us/mormon-church-policy/1 day ago ... A new Mormon church policy considers church members in same-sex marriages as apostates whose children will be barred from baptism and ...
2. Mormon Church Bans Children of Same-Sex Couples From Getting ...
   http://www.people.com/article/mormon-church-bans-children-same-sex-couples-baptized2 days ago ... Mormon Church leaders have sparked outrage with a decision to ban gay couplesfrom having their children blessed and baptized into the ...

Jesus loves everyone, the lds church doesn't.

Nonsense. How does protecting children from family conflict occur out of lack of love? Christ said we aren't to harm children. Putting them in a position of conflict will hurt them.

You are harming children by telling them they will have to disavow their parents and by delaying their opportunity to be baptized. What if they are already baptized? Are you not going to let them take the sacrament? Are you going to sanction their membership?

And when the tithing slowdown begins and the fast offerings increase and the economic sanctions and boycotts begin, we will see what the leadership will do.

April Conference will be very, very interesting.

I'm sure April conference will be interesting. It always is. I invite you to watch it very closely.

I'm skeptical you are going to succeed with boycotts and such over a policy that protects children from making covenants contrary to the family lifestyle and creating conflict with in. But if you are, it will not change anything. The saints have been called through much worse, the Missouri extermination order comes to mind. If you think we will waver you are mistaken.

 

[Avatar4321]

The church all about family and kids is not really the church about family and kids. The LDS Church did and does this to polygamyous kids: it's like, Jesus says, "Get off me until you are 18, you polygamous bastard rugrats."

1. Mormon church labels same-sex couples apostates - CNN.com
   http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/us/mormon-church-policy/1 day ago ... A new Mormon church policy considers church members in same-sex marriages as apostates whose children will be barred from baptism and ...
2. Mormon Church Bans Children of Same-Sex Couples From Getting ...
   http://www.people.com/article/mormon-church-bans-children-same-sex-couples-baptized2 days ago ... Mormon Church leaders have sparked outrage with a decision to ban gay couplesfrom having their children blessed and baptized into the ...

Jesus loves everyone, the lds church doesn't.

Nonsense. How does protecting children from family conflict occur out of lack of love? Christ said we aren't to harm children. Putting them in a position of conflict will hurt them.

Jesus loves everyone. Period.

No one said otherwise.

Children don't need the church they have Jesus love regardless.

Which is why we don't baptize little children.

And which if you truly believe that makes you or anyone else being upset about this ridiculous.

If you don't believe the Church why would you be bothered by it? If we don't have authority to baptize, who cares who we baptize or when? If we do, then shouldn't we submit to that authority if we want to be in the Kingdom of God?

 

[JakeStarkey]

[Not true. They don't have to choose between their parent and the Church at all. They can still love them without agreeing that everything they choose to is right. They can still be a part of their lives. No one is saying the parents needs to be shunned, removed from their life, or not respect as the parent. Only that the child has to recognize same sex marriage and activity is a sin.

Why do we accept this nonsense that's if we disagree with someone we need to hate them and can't love them? It's a lie. The media may try to feed it to us to push their agenda but it is a lie and always will be a lie.

I disagree with some things my wife does. I don't hate her. I love her more than life itself. I would sacrifice my life for her.

I disagree with some things my daughter does. She disappoints me sometimes. I don't hate her in the slightest. I would walk ok burning hot coals to help her.

The world has a distorted view of love right now. We are inundated with this false view that unless you agree and accept everything someone's does you hate them. I'm tired of that nonsense.

Paul defines love as it is. Maybe we should remember that instead of accepting propaganda on what the world claims is love.

The children do have to decide if the LDS Church’s approval of them is more important thant their love and approval of their parents. For shame. No church is more important than a children’s love for parents.


We need to accept that when children are put in this position that the Church hates them. That is the truth.

The world understands family and children, love for and about them, perfectly. The LDS church does not.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I’ll just remind everyone briefly of 1 Corinthians 13, perhaps the most quoted text in the New Testament, for good reason:

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

In the absence of understanding, of seeing things clearly, we should have charity. Prophecies–and policies–will fail, but charity will last.

Loyalty Is a Tricky Virtue

Which shows you know better than to lie about others.

Then stop your lying that you and your church love children. You come between them and their parents. The Holy Spirit testifies the church's position is not godly.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The polygamy principle was detailed (wrongly, in my opinion) to a small group of people the LDS Church wanted to keep out of their Temples. They did not want polygamists to go to the Temple to receive their endowments, sealings, washings, and so forth.

In this case, we are talking about children of families, and many of them with close ties to the church and to family members in the church, being denied baptism.

That is not anywhere near "suffer the little children to come unto me."

As far as go elsewhere, the church hqs have been notified today by its bishops and local authorities of more than 1,000 resignations, and are expecting it to be more than 10,000 by the end of the week, and as many as 200,000 by Christmas.

A more insidious assault on the Church is being organized, I hear, as a blue tithing slow down.

Then let them vote with their feet. Again, life sucks sometimes.

They will vote as they please: to stay and try to change from the inside, to stop tithing and increase fast offerings, and to bring economic sanctions on business in Utah. It's the American way.

You had me until the last one. Government should not sanction a whole State for the acts of a religious group in its borders.

Now if you called for a boycott, privately led, then that would still be fucking stupid, but still permissible.

I said nothing about government. 90% of the state officials are LDS, so they will not be bullied that way. But the LDS and non-LDS are very sensitive to criticism and even more to economic sanctions in the private sector.

And I agree that many will vote with their feet and turn in resignations then go online and to the media.

tyroneweaver, attacking me does nothing for the discussion other than make you look rather shallow. But if you feel better for it, attack away.

Jake, this entire thread is you attacking people. I don't think you're going to come back better.

Look at the tone in your attacks. This isn't the Spirit of God influencing you. Get the Spirit.

I have attacked no one. I did correct tyroneweaver for attacking my mother. He can insult me all he wants.

This thread is about the attack of the LDS church on children and family. My tone is guided by the Spirit of appropriate rebuke for an incredibly anti-Christ policy. It will continue.

 

[Michelle420]

Jesus loves everyone, the lds church doesn't.

Nonsense. How does protecting children from family conflict occur out of lack of love? Christ said we aren't to harm children. Putting them in a position of conflict will hurt them.

Jesus loves everyone. Period.

No one said otherwise.

Children don't need the church they have Jesus love regardless.

Which is why we don't baptize little children.

And which if you truly believe that makes you or anyone else being upset about this ridiculous.

If you don't believe the Church why would you be bothered by it? If we don't have authority to baptize, who cares who we baptize or when? If we do, then shouldn't we submit to that authority if we want to be in the Kingdom of God?

When did I say I was upset? God's love has no condition. The church's love has conditions, it's not a hard choice. Don't ever join the church.

It's a discussion about the choice the church made. The church baptizes children at 8 yrs old, at 12yrs old children can join the priesthood. However, imo there is no need to belong to the church at all it since God loves all of us no matter what, God's love doesn't require a membership to the LDS church.

 

[Avatar4321]

[Not true. They don't have to choose between their parent and the Church at all. They can still love them without agreeing that everything they choose to is right. They can still be a part of their lives. No one is saying the parents needs to be shunned, removed from their life, or not respect as the parent. Only that the child has to recognize same sex marriage and activity is a sin.

Why do we accept this nonsense that's if we disagree with someone we need to hate them and can't love them? It's a lie. The media may try to feed it to us to push their agenda but it is a lie and always will be a lie.

I disagree with some things my wife does. I don't hate her. I love her more than life itself. I would sacrifice my life for her.

I disagree with some things my daughter does. She disappoints me sometimes. I don't hate her in the slightest. I would walk ok burning hot coals to help her.

The world has a distorted view of love right now. We are inundated with this false view that unless you agree and accept everything someone's does you hate them. I'm tired of that nonsense.

Paul defines love as it is. Maybe we should remember that instead of accepting propaganda on what the world claims is love.

The children do have to decide if the LDS Church’s approval of them is more important thant their love and approval of their parents. For shame. No church is more important than a children’s love for parents.


We need to accept that when children are put in this position that the Church hates them. That is the truth.

The world understands family and children, love for and about them, perfectly. The LDS church does not.

So their gay parents won't love them if they join the Church?