Zone1 Leftists, do you agree that kids should receive sex-change operations without parental knowing?

[Curried Goats]

I accept their legal right be queer

As does practically everyone

But you cant mandate approval

You can't, which is why the mainstream doesn't approve of the ignorant bigotry from the right.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Apparently, children can travel to California and get sex-change surgeries without their parents knowledge or consent. Do you support that?

Ask any Lefty, "Should a 13 year old get a tattoo if they want one". You will get silence. Now if it's puberty blockers or sex surgery, they will mouth froth at you that it's their given right and you're a transphobic, bigot, racist etc..

I've asked Lefties and received silence from all because their hypocrisy slaps their face.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

How so? Biological traits are caused by hormones, not magic. We can observe hormones that cause the development of people who aren't strictly male or female reproductively speaking (the intersexed). Why do you discount a similar process happening in the brain?

The brain doesn't play a direct role in the process of reproduction. The sexual organs do. That's the entire point of the distinction between men and women. It takes one of each to produce a new human being. One of each as defined by their reproductive anatomy. The brain has no direct part in this definition or distinction.

 

[JoeB131]

^^^ That's a well behaved, thoroughly indoctrinated SJW. If you dare suggest Bruce Jenner is a man dressed as a woman, he could easily beat the crap out of you.

There are probably a lot of cis-gendered women who could beat the crap out of me... I'm elderly and have arthritis. Now Caitlyn is a former Olympic-class athlete; I'm sure she could beat the shit out of me, too. Then I'd have a lot of money after I sue her for assault. I mean, if I were an unethical person.

It's a matter of hard, undeniable science.

A man is not a woman, and cannot become a woman.

A woman is not a man, and cannot become a man.

Men are distinguished from women by observable, provable, and unalterable biological traits.

You have to be deeply fucked in the head not to understand this.

It's not a matter of “offending anyone's sensibilities”.

Well, it's clearly offending YOUR sensibilities. I guess what the problem here is that you think it's impossible for a person to have a female brain and male genitals, except the science has already proven that it is possible in that the brains of transgender women resemble those of cisgender women and not cis-gendered men.

Brain Sex in Transgender Women Is Shifted towards Gender Identity

Transgender people report discomfort with their birth sex and a strong identification with the opposite sex. The current study was designed to shed further light on the question of whether the brains of transgender people resemble their birth sex or their ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

For this purpose, we analyzed a sample of 24 cisgender men, 24 cisgender women, and 24 transgender women before gender-affirming hormone therapy. We employed a recently developed multivariate classifier that yields a continuous probabilistic (rather than a binary) estimate for brains to be male or female. The brains of transgender women ranged between cisgender men and cisgender women , and the differences to both cisgender men and to cisgender women were significant (p = 0.016 and p < 0.001, respectively). These findings add support to the notion that the underlying brain anatomy in transgender people is shifted away from their biological sex towards their gender identity.

It's a matter of pushing a blatant falsehood. It's about demanding that those who know better, speak this falsehood, and treat it as truth, often to harmful effect. It's about marginalizing and punishing those who dare to reject this falsehood, and to speak the truth. And it is about allowing people to be harmed in tangible ways, in order to uphold the falsehood.

No, it's a matter of respecting people. Frankly, if you are spending this much time hating on people who are different, that shows a level of sociopathy on your part.

I understand that as a pathological liar, truth holds no value to you, and you see nothing wrong with promoting falsehood, or even compelling people who know better to repeat that falsehood, and treat it as truth. But then that so what being a sociopath is about. There is no reason at all to expect a creature such as yourself to understand what it is like to be an actual human being, with even the most basic and essential of ethical standards, including the preference for truth over falsehood.

Um, yeah, guy, you know, the thing is that we've heard this song on civil rights, women's rights and gay rights from people like you, being upset that they were destroying the "natural order of things".

It costs you nothing to treat people as their preferred gender. Nothing at all. It's not like you are going to be the one having sex with them.

To each his own.

 

[JoeB131]

Ask any Lefty, "Should a 13 year old get a tattoo if they want one". You will get silence. Now if it's puberty blockers or sex surgery, they will mouth froth at you that it's their given right and you're a transphobic, bigot, racist etc..

I've asked Lefties and received silence from all because their hypocrisy slaps their face.

Well, they are really not the same thing, are they?

There's absolutely no good reason for a 13-year-old to get a tattoo.

If a 13-year-old has gender dysphoria, that is an actual medical condition that requires treatment and should ONLY be administered by medical professionals after a reasonably thorough evaluation.

If a teenager is saying they are trans to be all edge lord and annoy their parents, then you have a valid point, that person should not be getting hormones.

If a teen is truly gender dysphoric, then it's a matter of treatment.

Let's look at the other extreme. If a child is suffering from cancer, but their parents are Christian Scientists or Jehovah's Witnesses, and don't believe in certain treatments, should that be the final word, or should the state intervene to save that child's life?

 

[Curried Goats]

The brain doesn't play a direct role in the process of reproduction. The sexual organs do.

That's another strawman. I never said the brain plays a role in reproduction. That isn't what my point was about. It was about the fact that biological traits are caused by hormone production. In the intersexed, their homone production produces bodies who's reproductive organs aren't fully male or female. Similarly in the transgendered their hormones produce brains who's gender identity is at odds with their reproductive organs.

That's the entire point of the distinction between men and women. It takes one of each to produce a new human being. One of each as defined by their reproductive anatomy. The brain has no direct part in this definition or distinction.

The brain does play a direct role however in forming your identity and that is what we were discussing.

 

[JoeB131]

The brain doesn't play a direct role in the process of reproduction. The sexual organs do. That's the entire point of the distinction between men and women. It takes one of each to produce a new human being. One of each as defined by their reproductive anatomy. The brain has no part in this definition or distinction.

Reproduction isn't the be-all and end-all of one's personality or identity. I mean, I get it if you are a Mormon Breeder just looking to reproduce you way into the Celestial Heaven or whatever crazy stuff you people believe.

I accept their legal right be queer
As does practically everyone
But you cant mandate approval

True, you also have the right to be a racist or a misogynist.

Doesn't make it anything to be proud of.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Well, it's clearly offending YOUR sensibilities. I guess what the problem here is that you think it's impossible for a person to have a female brain and male genitals, except the science has already proven that it is possible in that the brains of transgender women resemble those of cisgender women and not cis-gendered men.

Genuine science has proven no such thing.

Science has established that there may be tendencies of men's brains to work more toward one way, and for women's brains to work more toward a different way. That's no surprise to anyone who understands that by nature, men and women tend to have some differences in how they think, how they interact with others, how they view the world.

But even within the same sex, each individual's brain works a bit differently than a every other individual brains. Some men's brains may very well work more like an average woman's brain than like an average man's brain, or vice versa. There is, however, no rational scientific basis on which to argue that we can reliably distinguish men from women, or define the difference between them, on the basis of these brain patterns.

As someone who has what is likely some form of Asperger's Syndrome, or high-functioning autism or something in that category, the working of my brain is probably more different than an average man's brain or an average woman's brain than an average man's brain is from an average woman's brain. By your defective logic, we should be trying to define me as some whole other “gender”, far outside of male or female, based on my brain patterns.

All of that is extremely subjective. It is not even really possible to clearly distinguish what differences between male and female brain behavior are based on genuine physical differences, and which are based on cultural conditioning.

Reproductive anatomy is objective and clear and unambiguous. Men have objectively and clearly different reproductive anatomy than women have; and is is the differences between these two anatomies, and the proper application, thereof, which make sit possible for us to reproduce, to keep the human species alive.

To paraphrase a meme that's been going around…

If you put ten men and ninety women on an island, isolated from all other human contact, and come back a hundred years later, if conditions were otherwise right for it, you'll find a society of living people, descended from those that were left on that island a century ago.

If you put ten men and ninety “trans women” on an island, isolated from all other human contact, and come back a hundred years later, you'll just fine the skeletons of a hundred men.​

Brain Sex in Transgender Women Is Shifted towards Gender Identity

Transgender people report discomfort with their birth sex and a strong identification with the opposite sex. The current study was designed to shed further light on the question of whether the brains of transgender people resemble their birth sex or their ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

For this purpose, we analyzed a sample of 24 cisgender men, 24 cisgender women, and 24 transgender women before gender-affirming hormone therapy. We employed a recently developed multivariate classifier that yields a continuous probabilistic (rather than a binary) estimate for brains to be male or female. The brains of transgender women ranged between cisgender men and cisgender women , and the differences to both cisgender men and to cisgender women were significant (p = 0.016 and p < 0.001, respectively). These findings add support to the notion that the underlying brain anatomy in transgender people is shifted away from their biological sex towards their gender identity.

The fact that the report uses the term “cisgender” proves that it was produced by people who are already fucked in the heads enough to buy into the whole “transgender” bullshit, and performed a study that was crafted to affirm their predetermined premise. It truly takes a JoeB131 level of stupidity, gullibility, and dishonesty, to treat such a study as it it has any credibility whatsoever.

Sane people do not have any use for the “cis…” prefix in this context. Only fucked-up mental cases that deny the distinction between male and female treat it as if it has any useful or relevant meaning.

No, it's a matter of respecting people. Frankly, if you are spending this much time hating on people who are different, that shows a level of sociopathy on your part.

It costs you nothing to treat people as their preferred gender. Nothing at all. It's not like you are going to be the one having sex with them.

There is nothing at all respectful about trying to compel a sane person to treaty an obvious falsehood as truth. I can think of little else that is as disrespectful or downright offensive. Again, you being a sociopath and a pathological liar, I would not expect you to understand this, but sane, decent human beings understand it very well.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The brain does play a direct role however in forming your identity and that is what we were discussing.

My “identity” has no part at all in defining whether I am a man or a woman. My biology, my anatomy, does that, and nothing could ever override that.

Nothing that could ever possibly go on in my brain would change the fact that I undeniably have male anatomy, a functional male reproductive system, as well as all the secondary morphological traits of a man.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Reproduction isn't the be-all and end-all of one's personality or identity.

It is, however, the almost entire point in all higher life forms, including humans, of there being a distinction between male and female.

 

[Curried Goats]

My “identity” has no part at all in defining whether I am a man or a woman. My biology, my anatomy, does that, and nothing could ever override that.

Your identity doesn't come from your reproductive organs, it comes from your brain.

Nothing that could ever possibly go on in my brain would change the fact that I undeniably have male anatomy, a functional male reproductive system, as well as all the secondary morphological traits of a man.

Of course it could. Anyone making determinative statements about the future without any known variables isn't making rational statements. Things happen to people's brains and sometimes those physical changes cause personality changes.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Your identity doesn't come from your reproductive organs, it comes from your brain.

My identity does not make me a man. My brain does not make me a man.

My reproductive anatomy makes me a man.

 

[Curried Goats]

My identity does not make me a man. My brain does not make me a man.

My reproductive anatomy makes me a man.

And so if your reproductive system stopped working or you were castrated then you would no longer be a man?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

And so if your reproductive system stopped working or you were castrated then you would no longer be a man?

 

[Curried Goats]

View attachment 868560

That's not a strawman, it's called a question. Can you answer it? You said your manness was tied to your reproductive system and your reproductive bits. If they stopped working or you lost them would you no longer think of yourself as a man?

 

[Captain Caveman]

Well, they are really not the same thing, are they?

There's absolutely no good reason for a 13-year-old to get a tattoo.

If a 13-year-old has gender dysphoria, that is an actual medical condition that requires treatment and should ONLY be administered by medical professionals after a reasonably thorough evaluation.

If a teenager is saying they are trans to be all edge lord and annoy their parents, then you have a valid point, that person should not be getting hormones.

If a teen is truly gender dysphoric, then it's a matter of treatment.

Let's look at the other extreme. If a child is suffering from cancer, but their parents are Christian Scientists or Jehovah's Witnesses, and don't believe in certain treatments, should that be the final word, or should the state intervene to save that child's life?

A 13 year old can't have a tattoo by law, a tattoo is not a life changing/threatening event. Puberty blockers and chopping healthy parts of the body is, and they can do this without parental consent and by law? What a fucked immoral society.

 

[Curried Goats]

A 13 year old can't have a tattoo by law, a tattoo is not a life changing/threatening event. Puberty blockers and chopping healthy parts of the body is, and they can do this without parental consent and by law? What a fucked immoral society.

Because a tattoo isn't healthcare and we shouldn't have to pretend that it is or treat it the same. A 13 year old can't have a tattoo but she can decide whether she wants to be on birth control.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

That's not a strawman, it's called a question. Can you answer it? You said your manness was tied to your reproductive system and your reproductive bits. If they stopped working or you lost them would you no longer think of yourself as a man?

Whether functional or not, it cannot be denied that what exists in me of a reproductive system is that of a man, and not of a woman.

Perhaps you could argue that if every trace of my reproductive system were completely removed, that this would leave me being neither a man nor a woman, but that's a stretch. Lacking any identifiable reproductive organs, I would still be left with the XY chromosome pattern that identifies me as a man, and with all other aspects of my secondary male morphology.

There is certainly nothing that can happen to me, that could be done to me using any technology currently extant nor that can be anticipated in the foreseeable future, that would turn me into a woman.

 

[Mac-7]

Reproduction isn't the be-all and end-all of one's personality or identity. I mean, I get it if you are a Mormon Breeder just looking to reproduce you way into the Celestial Heaven or whatever crazy stuff you people believe.


True, you also have the right to be a racist or a misogynist.

Doesn't make it anything to be proud of.

True, you also have the right to be a racist or a misogynist.

Neither of which I am

You use slander like a club

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Because a tattoo isn't healthcare and we shouldn't have to pretend that it is or treat it the same.

Destroying healthy organs and organ systems, in a futile attempt to force a madman's reality to conform to his delusions, is not health care, either. It's quackery and fraud, at best.