Zone1 Leftists, do you agree that kids should receive sex-change operations without parental knowing?

[JoeB131]

Genuine science has proven no such thing.

The NCBI aren't genuine scientists? Really?

As someone who has what is likely some form of Asperger's Syndrome, or high-functioning autism or something in that category, the working of my brain is probably more different than an average man's brain or an average woman's brain than an average man's brain is from an average woman's brain. By your defective logic, we should be trying to define me as some whole other “gender”, far outside of male or female, based on my brain patterns.

^^^^I want everyone to notice that I am not making any cheap shots over Bob's disclosure, above. (Which is pretty nice, given my history with him.)

Since your spot on the spectrum has nothing to do with your gender identity, then it is not relevant. Not sure what happened when you were growing up, but today if we diagnose a child as being on the autism spectrum, we classify them as special education and get them special therapy to try to mainstream them. That's much better than what we did 60 years ago, when these children were just warehoused.

So by your own faulty logic, you've actually made an argument FOR gender-affirming care.

Reproductive anatomy is objective and clear and unambiguous. Men have objectively and clearly different reproductive anatomy than women have; and is is the differences between these two anatomies, and the proper application, thereof, which make sit possible for us to reproduce, to keep the human species alive.

Except today, we have surrogacy and in-vitro fertilization, and we probably aren't that far away from Human Cloning. Even an artificial womb isn't outside the realm of possibility.

We could see a future where people custom-select their fetuses before they are conceived. Frankly, it sounds much less fun, but hey, there it is.

To paraphrase a meme that's been going around…

If you put ten men and ninety women on an island, isolated from all other human contact, and come back a hundred years later, if conditions were otherwise right for it, you'll find a society of living people, descended from those that were left on that island a century ago.

If you put ten men and ninety “trans women” on an island, isolated from all other human contact, and come back a hundred years later, you'll just fine the skeletons of a hundred men.

Um, actually, they did something close to that experiment in history. It was called Pitcairn Island. The Mutineers from HMS Bounty showed up there with a gaggle of Tahitian women they had kidnapped. What resulted was a bunch of inbred idiots who engaged in regular child abuse and some other problems.

They might have been better off if they had kidnapped a bunch of trans-women.

The fact that the report uses the term “cisgender” proves that it was produced by people who are already fucked in the heads enough to buy into the whole “transgender” bullshit, and performed a study that was crafted to affirm their predetermined premise. It truly takes a @JoeB131 level of stupidity, gullibility, and dishonesty, to treat such a study as it it has any credibility whatsoever.

See, we are back to your sensibilities again, Bob. YOU are offended by the term "cisgender" because it legitimizes transgender as being a thing.

There is nothing at all respectful about trying to compel a sane person to treaty an obvious falsehood as truth. I can think of little else that is as disrespectful or downright offensive. Again, you being a sociopath and a pathological liar, I would not expect you to understand this, but sane, decent human beings understand it very well.

It's only a falsehood to your sensibilities. I'm not a religious person, but outside of USMB, I treat other people's religious beliefs with respect. (If you are letting your freak flag fly on USMB, though, you are fair game.) I don't go to the Mormon Temple and tell people that Joseph Smith was a two-bit con-man with an unhealthy attraction to teenage girls.

You see, most of life is keeping your opinions to yourself when they aren't particularly helpful. The reason I am able to get along with my coworkers is that I don't judge their private lives, and frankly, I'd just as soon not know about them.

 

[JoeB131]

True, you also have the right to be a racist or a misogynist.

Neither of which I am

You use slander like a club

Homophobes, Transphobes, Racists, Misogynists... they are all cut from the same cloth.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I get it if you are a Mormon Breeder just looking to reproduce you way into the Celestial Heaven or whatever crazy stuff you people believe.

Trust me, there is not anything that we believe that comes anywhere close to the level of lunacy that you routinely demonstrate in the shit that you express. Even your most extravagant distortions, exaggerations, and outright lies about our beliefs do not come anywhere to the madness of your own expressed beliefs.

Come to think of it, given just how batshit crazy your own expressed beliefs are, I am surprised that you cannot seem to come up with any more extreme lies about my beliefs that what you do. One would expect that you would be able to come up with lies that make my beliefs out to be nearly as crazy as yours., but you cannot quite seem to reach that far.

 

[sparky]

everywhere there's dykes and fairies, freak and haries, tell me where is sanity......~S~

 

[JoeB131]

Destroying healthy organs and organ systems, in a futile attempt to force a madman's reality to conform to his delusions, is not health care, either. It's quackery and fraud, at best.

Yet we have.

Breast Augmentations
Rhinoplasties
Blepharoplasties (that's when you round out an Asian person's eyes to make them look more European.)
Butt implants
Facelifts
Liposuctions
Hair Transplants
Gastric Bypass Operations

We do all sorts of things to ourselves to change our self-image...

 

[JoeB131]

Trust me, there is not anything that we believe that comes anywhere close to the level of lunacy that you routinely demonstrate in the shit that you express. Even your most extravagant distortions, exaggerations, and outright lies about our beliefs do not come anywhere to the madness of your own expressed beliefs.

Yes, I do make your beliefs look pretty silly when I describe them.

Come to thin of it,. given just how batshit crazy your own expressed beliefs are, I am surprised that you cannot seem to come up with any more extreme lies about my beliefs that what you do. One would expect that you would be able to come up with lies that make my beliefs out to be nearly as crazy as yours., but you cannot quite seem to reach that far.

Yet you never tell everyone what I get wrong.

 

[Curried Goats]

Whether functional or not, it cannot be denied that what exists in me of a reproductive system is that of a man, and not of a woman.

Again, and it's a minor detail, but you mean male or female. That said trans people are also not denying the biological traits of their bodies. They wouldn't seek puberty blockers, hormone treatment or sex reassignment surgery to change their biological traits if they didn't recognize biological traits they didn't like.

Perhaps you could argue that if every trace of my reproductive system were completely removed, that this would leave me being neither a man nor a woman, but that's a stretch.

That's not what I'm asking you. I'm asking you if they had to be removed, say because of cancer or something, would you stop thinking of yourself as a man? I'm simply trying to get you to engage in some self reflection and tell me whether the removal of all your bits would change how you identify yourself.

Lacking any identifiable reproductive organs, I would still be left with the XY chromosome pattern that identifies me as a man, and with all other aspects of my secondary male morphology.

Some people live into adulthood without knowing there is something off with their biology or chromosomes. A man lived his whole life and only found out when he was 37 that he didn't have XY chromosomes and that the hormones in his body caused him to grow a functioning womb.

Man Shocked to Discover He Has a Fully Functioning Womb

There is certainly nothing that can happen to me, that could be done to me using any technology currently extant nor that can be anticipated in the foreseeable future, that would turn me into a woman.

So not even losing your reproductive system? Then how can that be the basis for your male identity? That doesn't make any logical sense.

 

[Mac-7]

Homophobes, Transphobes, Racists, Misogynists... they are all cut from the same cloth.

That sort of slander may work at the communist front group you belong to

But it wont work with me

 

[Curried Goats]

Destroying healthy organs and organ systems, in a futile attempt to force a madman's reality to conform to his delusions, is not health care, either. It's quackery and fraud, at best.

More angry words rather that sound argument.

 

[JoeB131]

That sort of slander my work at the communist front group you belong to

But it wont work with me

Your work speaks for itself.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

As someone who has what is likely some form of Asperger's Syndrome, or high-functioning autism or something in that category, the working of my brain is probably more different than an average man's brain or an average woman's brain than an average man's brain is from an average woman's brain. By your defective logic, we should be trying to define me as some whole other “gender”, far outside of male or female, based on my brain patterns.

Since your spot on the spectrum has nothing to do with your gender identity, then it is not relevant.

You've been trying to argue that in some sense a man who is, in every objective, provable way, a man, can somehow be a woman, based on subjective theories regarding how his brain allegedly works more like that of a woman than like that of a man.

My point, here, to refute that absurd premise, is that my brain very likely is more different in how it works than an average man's brain is different than an average woman's brain.

If a man can be a “woman”, based on such a small subjective difference in how his brain works from those of most other men, then what does it make me, that my brain works so much differently than those of most other people, male or female?

Not sure what happened when you were growing up, but today if we diagnose a child as being on the autism spectrum, we classify them as special education and get them special therapy to try to mainstream them. That's much better than what we did 60 years ago, when these children were just warehoused.

I don't think they understood autism, then as a “spectrum”, that included a wide range of ability or disability. I don't know that that label really fits what I am, and nobody certainly thought so at the time my parents were dragging the five-year-old me from doctor to doctor, trying to figure out why their son was so different from other kids. I think all they knew, then, of autism, was a mental condition that made those afflicted with it significantly dysfunctional, in a way that I very clearly never was. The term “high-functioning autism” reflects current understanding, that a person can have what appears to be a variant of the same condition that was previously only recognized in seriously dysfunctional people, without being dysfunctional in the manner previously associated with autism.

Best they were able to come up with, at the time, was “hyperactive”. If any attempt had been made to make any sense of me, when the term ADHD came into play, they might have pinned that label on me. Asperger's Syndrome and High-Functioning Autism are just my best guesses as to how they might try to classify me now, if the attempt was made. I don't think any of that is very well understood, even at this time; it isn't even widely agreed whether Asperger's Syndrome is related to autism or not.

I suspect that if I could be preserved for another sixty years, and examined again at that time by those who are then current experts in the related fields, that they would very likely come up with some new label, some new condition, not known or imagined as of this time.

All that can very solidly be said about my condition is that my brain works significantly differently than most other people's brains. Not better, not worse, just different.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Yes, I do make your beliefs look pretty silly when I describe them.

Most of your descriptions of my supposed beliefs are extreme exaggerations, distortions, and outright lies. Of course you can make my “beliefs”, or anyone else's look silly, if you take that much liberty in representing them in such an extravagantly dishonest and deceitful manner.

And yet, for all your efforts in that direction, you have not been able to depict my beliefs as being anywhere near as batshit crazy as what you openly believe and express.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

That said trans people are also not denying the biological traits of their bodies. They wouldn't seek puberty blockers, hormone treatment or sex reassignment surgery to change their biological traits if they didn't recognize biological traits they didn't like.

You do understand, don't you, that none of that quasi-medical Frankensteinery can make a person of one sex into the actual opposite sex, right? The best it can do is a superficial, nonfunctioning counterfeit of the opposite sex.

An insane man who thinks he is a woman, who has all of that done to him, is still not a woman; he's still a man, albeit a badly fucked-up, mutilated, ruined form of a man.

 

[Mac-7]

Your work speaks for itself.

You called me a racist

Thats a lib lie that you cannot document

 

[JoeB131]

If a man can be a “woman”, based on such a small subjective difference in how his brain works from those of most other men, then what does it make me, that my brain works so much differently than those of most other people, male or female?

Because whatever you have doesn't effect your gender identity. I think. I don't know because, frankly, there's been that scientific study that homophobic men are latently gay...so we can draw our own conclusions.

You've been trying to argue that in some sense a man who is, in every objective, provable way, a man, can somehow be a woman, based on subjective theories regarding how his brain allegedly works more like that of a woman than like that of a man.

My point, here, to refute that absurd premise, is that my brain very likely is more different in how it works than an average man's brain is different than an average woman's brain.

How is it absurd? The problem is that if you use your definition of a woman, you'd eliminate every woman who isn't currently capable of making babies.

I don't think they understood autism, then as a “spectrum”, that included a wide range of ability or disability. I don't know that that label really fits what I am, and nobody certainly thought so at the time my parents were dragging the five-year-old me from doctor to doctor, trying to figure out why their son was so different from other kids. I think all they knew, then, of autism, was a mental condition that made those afflicted with it significantly dysfunctional, in a way that I very clearly never was. The term “high-functioning autism” reflects current understanding, that a person can have what appears to be a variant of the same condition that was previously only recognized in seriously dysfunctional people, without being dysfunctional in the manner previously associated with autism.

But the point is, you got the best treatment that 1970's medicine could offer, that was the thing. So by that logic, if the best treatment for gender dysphoria is gender-affirming care (as many doctors and scientists think that it is), I'm not sure what your complaint is other than it offends your sensibilities.

All that can very solidly be said about my condition is that my brain works significantly differently than most other people's brains. Not better, not worse, just different.

Well, yeah, I kind of figured that out when you started stalking me on LinkedIn.

 

[JoeB131]

You called me a racist

Thats a lib lie that you cannot document

Sure I can.
You bitch about Obama constantly and rationalize police brutality against blacks.

 

[Mac-7]

Sure I can.
You bitch about Obama constantly and rationalize police brutality against blacks.

Obama was a bad president and a race hustler who harmed race relations

My saying so does not make me a racist

spouting slander and lies is your only argument

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Because whatever you have doesn't effect your gender identity. I think. I don't know because, frankly, there's been that scientific study that homophobic men are latently gay...so we can draw our own conclusions.

Yes, you keep citing that bullshit study, in the face of how obviously absurd the conclusion is.

Does the deep, intense hatred that you regularly express toward human beings, that have any sense of ethics or morals, mean that deep down, you are actually a latent, self-hating human being with disturbing inclinations toward ethics and morals, rather than the façade that you constantly wear of a soulless, Godless, subhuman sociopath?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

How is it absurd? The problem is that if you use your definition of a woman, you'd eliminate every woman who isn't currently capable of making babies.

Not by any definition that I use.

A woman, by definition, is an adult female human. Not all women are fertile, and that is not part of any rational definition thereof; any more than having two arms and two legs is a part of the definition of a human, and that anyone who is missing a limb is therefore not human.

But the point is, you got the best treatment that 1970's medicine could offer, that was the thing.

They put me on Ritalin for a while, but it really didn't help anything. There was never anything truly wrong with me, nothing really to treat or to try to cure; I was just different. A bit like being left-handed, and growing up in a world set up by and for, and inhabited almost exclusively by right-handed people.

So by that logic, if the best treatment for gender dysphoria is gender-affirming care (as many doctors and scientists think that it is), I'm not sure what your complaint is other than it offends your sensibilities.

I dispute that it is any kind of treatment at all.

A man who thinks that he is a woman is fucked in the head; there is nothing otherwise wrong with his body.

As a matter of undeniable biological fact, it is impossible to turn a man into a woman.

After his genitalia have been destroyed, his capacity to enjoy any kind of sexual sensation destroyed, his health ruined, his body otherwise mutilated and damaged; all in a futile effort to force his body to conform to his delusions; sooner or later, he is going to have to face the unalterable reality that he is still not a woman, that his mind every bit as fucked up as it was before, but now his body is also irreversibly fucked up as well.

His health ruined, his body ruined, his chance at any kind of a normal social life, much less a romantic/sexual life ruined.

To see this as any kind of improvement, I think, would require being almost as fucked up in the head as it would take to actually be a tranny.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

You called me a racist
Thats [sic] a lib lie that you cannot document

You bitch about Obama constantly and rationalize police brutality against blacks.

Not to speak for Mac-7, specifically, but of all those who thought that Obama was a shitty excuse for a President, I wonder how many there are who think that the senile, corrupt, incompetent, old white guy now infesting the Presidency is any improvement over Obama. I certainly do not.

That's just you projecting your own abject racism on Mac-7, and by extension, on everyone who thought that Obama was a shitty excuse for a President.