let's help enact Governor Cuomo's proposal for free college in New York!

[WillReadmore]

MS, IBM and Oracle address issues that are quite different from those of the general public and their desire to play, their general technical inability, their acceptance of close systems rather than the absolute requirement for openness, etc.

And, trying to pin your charge on these companies is absolutely absurd.

As I am in the field for over 30 years, I have followed their endeavors since the early 80s.
They have each failed to enter the world of Open Architecture because they went H1-B crazy and H1-Bs rarely have the skills to accomplish anything.

No, that is absolutely ridiculous.

Apple didn't go "open architecture" either.

The point I was making is that Apple has consistently kept their solutions far more closed than has Microsoft.

Remember that it was about a decade before Apple even so much as allowed a third party to sell a printer. And, Microsoft was putting their entire system on the computers built by anyone in the world, while adding different networking solutions, and other major extensions.

Apple was considered more "usable" because they stayed closed - there just were far fewer options. There was THE printer. There was THE monitor. There was THE keyboard. There was THE network system. There was THE storage device. All hardware was made by ONE company. For a long time there was even a lock so you couldn't even see inside the box!!! Apple considered ONE user for a particular systenm as opposed to the issues and advantages seen in a corporate environment where there is corporate management of information, including information hardware (management that Apple needed to ignore in favor of simplicity for owner-maintained configurations).

And, NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with visas.

It has to do with significant differences in the perceived needs of specific and varied markets.

You're right about Open Architecture.
What I meant to convey was Apple went Open in terms of portability...phones and tablets.
MS, IBM and Oracle tried to do the same and failed miserably.

I laughed my arse off when Steve Balmer introduced to the world the...LAPTOP.
Except the idiot called it Surface not realizing that Apple, HP, Dell, etc... beat him to the punch by a good couple of years.
That's what you get when you surround yourself with people who don't even know how to surf the web and see what's going on.

In terms of software development it has EVERYTHING to do with visas.
If you have an iPhone you'll see how often that Multi-National Corporate Apps have to be downloaded because of yet ANOTHER error.
If these coders knew what they were doing they wouldn't have to fix things like memory leaks every day.

Companies like Apple and Google get it right by spending the money and getting the talent.
Others simply reply on what they sold 30-40 years ago and keep pushing supposed "upgrades" of their software.
Heck, I can't see any reason to upgrade the MS Office since around 2000; there's not ONE feature that would make my life simpler.

It's ironic that nobody under the age of 40 ever heard of IBM or Oracle.

Now you're REALLY going nutty. MS is a software company. They really only make hardware as a side issue.

The fact of the matter is that FAR more computers run MS software than Apple software - noting that phones aren't in that category.

And, that has NOTHING to do with being "open". So, don't make excuses.

On phones, Apple has been on the CLOSED side of the scale, with it's requirements for Apple ownership of code written by application creators. MS has ALWAYS been MORE open - both in terms of business practices and technology. Period. As has Google with Android.

In fact, third parties have windows source code. How many corporations have the source code for Apple's various operating systems?

Once again, you're just plain confused about the business world of computers and software.

And, as for management, the hiring and compensation of MS employees is determined by managers who don't even have access to the immigration status of employees - it's just not their job. There job is to create software and evaluate the engineers in their group, promoting those who are good and firing those who aren't. So, suggesting visa holders are paid less is just plain stupid. That would require a complete reworking of how compensation is determined.

If you want to critique MS on their foray into the cell phone market, fine. But, attaching that to visa issues is absolute and total BS.

Human resources is COMPLETLEY responsible for which resumes are used and which are tossed in the trash.
They have their orders from the CEO who absolutely insists all IT jobs are to be given SOLELY to H1-Bs.
If you don't know this you haven't been reading your financial publications since 2004.

No, you charged MS of this. And, it is NOT how MS finds engineers for its product creation groups.

Microsoft sends engineers to universities to interview candidates who apply for interviews through the placement offices of those universities. The theory is that engineers can recognize smart engineers better than some HR person. The universities they go to are usually in America or Canada (where there are a couple really good places for finding engineers due to their education method).

Those engineers bring back the people they want to bring back.

Sending a resume to the MS HR office in hopes of getting an engineering position is going to be a dead failure. Their HR gets tens of thousands of resumes. And, that's just not how the vast majority of engineers are found.

 

[Indeependent]

As I am in the field for over 30 years, I have followed their endeavors since the early 80s.
They have each failed to enter the world of Open Architecture because they went H1-B crazy and H1-Bs rarely have the skills to accomplish anything.

No, that is absolutely ridiculous.

Apple didn't go "open architecture" either.

The point I was making is that Apple has consistently kept their solutions far more closed than has Microsoft.

Remember that it was about a decade before Apple even so much as allowed a third party to sell a printer. And, Microsoft was putting their entire system on the computers built by anyone in the world, while adding different networking solutions, and other major extensions.

Apple was considered more "usable" because they stayed closed - there just were far fewer options. There was THE printer. There was THE monitor. There was THE keyboard. There was THE network system. There was THE storage device. All hardware was made by ONE company. For a long time there was even a lock so you couldn't even see inside the box!!! Apple considered ONE user for a particular systenm as opposed to the issues and advantages seen in a corporate environment where there is corporate management of information, including information hardware (management that Apple needed to ignore in favor of simplicity for owner-maintained configurations).

And, NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with visas.

It has to do with significant differences in the perceived needs of specific and varied markets.

You're right about Open Architecture.
What I meant to convey was Apple went Open in terms of portability...phones and tablets.
MS, IBM and Oracle tried to do the same and failed miserably.

I laughed my arse off when Steve Balmer introduced to the world the...LAPTOP.
Except the idiot called it Surface not realizing that Apple, HP, Dell, etc... beat him to the punch by a good couple of years.
That's what you get when you surround yourself with people who don't even know how to surf the web and see what's going on.

In terms of software development it has EVERYTHING to do with visas.
If you have an iPhone you'll see how often that Multi-National Corporate Apps have to be downloaded because of yet ANOTHER error.
If these coders knew what they were doing they wouldn't have to fix things like memory leaks every day.

Companies like Apple and Google get it right by spending the money and getting the talent.
Others simply reply on what they sold 30-40 years ago and keep pushing supposed "upgrades" of their software.
Heck, I can't see any reason to upgrade the MS Office since around 2000; there's not ONE feature that would make my life simpler.

It's ironic that nobody under the age of 40 ever heard of IBM or Oracle.

Now you're REALLY going nutty. MS is a software company. They really only make hardware as a side issue.

The fact of the matter is that FAR more computers run MS software than Apple software - noting that phones aren't in that category.

And, that has NOTHING to do with being "open". So, don't make excuses.

On phones, Apple has been on the CLOSED side of the scale, with it's requirements for Apple ownership of code written by application creators. MS has ALWAYS been MORE open - both in terms of business practices and technology. Period. As has Google with Android.

In fact, third parties have windows source code. How many corporations have the source code for Apple's various operating systems?

Once again, you're just plain confused about the business world of computers and software.

And, as for management, the hiring and compensation of MS employees is determined by managers who don't even have access to the immigration status of employees - it's just not their job. There job is to create software and evaluate the engineers in their group, promoting those who are good and firing those who aren't. So, suggesting visa holders are paid less is just plain stupid. That would require a complete reworking of how compensation is determined.

If you want to critique MS on their foray into the cell phone market, fine. But, attaching that to visa issues is absolute and total BS.

Human resources is COMPLETLEY responsible for which resumes are used and which are tossed in the trash.
They have their orders from the CEO who absolutely insists all IT jobs are to be given SOLELY to H1-Bs.
If you don't know this you haven't been reading your financial publications since 2004.

No, you charged MS of this. And, it is NOT how MS finds engineers for its product creation groups.

Microsoft sends engineers to universities to interview candidates who apply for interviews through the placement offices of those universities. The theory is that engineers can recognize smart engineers better than some HR person. The universities they go to are usually in America or Canada (where there are a couple really good places for finding engineers due to their education method).

Those engineers bring back the people they want to bring back.

Sending a resume to the MS HR office in hopes of getting an engineering position is going to be a dead failure. Their HR gets tens of thousands of resumes. And, that's just not how the vast majority of engineers are found.

The very first thing Gates did when he "left" MS in 1998 was to go to Capitol Hill to lobby for Indian Business Visas.
Post 9/11 his attorneys conjured up the phrase "Americans lack the skill set...".
Wall Street went hog wild with enthusiasm behind Gates and now 3,000,000 Americans have been replaced by mostly H1-Bs and other categories of Indian Business Visas.
Yep, suddenly, everyone German, Italian, British and whatever other nationality of Business Visas became inept and was sent back home.
And yet India can't produce squat on it's own.
Bill Gates is one of the biggest career destroyers who ever crawled the earth.
And Investors can't get enough of him.
But Trump has his number and is our next President and has appointed Jess Sessions to solve this problem.
Sessions is one of the very few Representatives who has been screaming about this VERY issue for many years.

So go argue with Trump and Sessions.

 

[WillReadmore]

No, that is absolutely ridiculous.

Apple didn't go "open architecture" either.

The point I was making is that Apple has consistently kept their solutions far more closed than has Microsoft.

Remember that it was about a decade before Apple even so much as allowed a third party to sell a printer. And, Microsoft was putting their entire system on the computers built by anyone in the world, while adding different networking solutions, and other major extensions.

Apple was considered more "usable" because they stayed closed - there just were far fewer options. There was THE printer. There was THE monitor. There was THE keyboard. There was THE network system. There was THE storage device. All hardware was made by ONE company. For a long time there was even a lock so you couldn't even see inside the box!!! Apple considered ONE user for a particular systenm as opposed to the issues and advantages seen in a corporate environment where there is corporate management of information, including information hardware (management that Apple needed to ignore in favor of simplicity for owner-maintained configurations).

And, NONE of this has ANYTHING to do with visas.

It has to do with significant differences in the perceived needs of specific and varied markets.

You're right about Open Architecture.
What I meant to convey was Apple went Open in terms of portability...phones and tablets.
MS, IBM and Oracle tried to do the same and failed miserably.

I laughed my arse off when Steve Balmer introduced to the world the...LAPTOP.
Except the idiot called it Surface not realizing that Apple, HP, Dell, etc... beat him to the punch by a good couple of years.
That's what you get when you surround yourself with people who don't even know how to surf the web and see what's going on.

In terms of software development it has EVERYTHING to do with visas.
If you have an iPhone you'll see how often that Multi-National Corporate Apps have to be downloaded because of yet ANOTHER error.
If these coders knew what they were doing they wouldn't have to fix things like memory leaks every day.

Companies like Apple and Google get it right by spending the money and getting the talent.
Others simply reply on what they sold 30-40 years ago and keep pushing supposed "upgrades" of their software.
Heck, I can't see any reason to upgrade the MS Office since around 2000; there's not ONE feature that would make my life simpler.

It's ironic that nobody under the age of 40 ever heard of IBM or Oracle.

Now you're REALLY going nutty. MS is a software company. They really only make hardware as a side issue.

The fact of the matter is that FAR more computers run MS software than Apple software - noting that phones aren't in that category.

And, that has NOTHING to do with being "open". So, don't make excuses.

On phones, Apple has been on the CLOSED side of the scale, with it's requirements for Apple ownership of code written by application creators. MS has ALWAYS been MORE open - both in terms of business practices and technology. Period. As has Google with Android.

In fact, third parties have windows source code. How many corporations have the source code for Apple's various operating systems?

Once again, you're just plain confused about the business world of computers and software.

And, as for management, the hiring and compensation of MS employees is determined by managers who don't even have access to the immigration status of employees - it's just not their job. There job is to create software and evaluate the engineers in their group, promoting those who are good and firing those who aren't. So, suggesting visa holders are paid less is just plain stupid. That would require a complete reworking of how compensation is determined.

If you want to critique MS on their foray into the cell phone market, fine. But, attaching that to visa issues is absolute and total BS.

Human resources is COMPLETLEY responsible for which resumes are used and which are tossed in the trash.
They have their orders from the CEO who absolutely insists all IT jobs are to be given SOLELY to H1-Bs.
If you don't know this you haven't been reading your financial publications since 2004.

No, you charged MS of this. And, it is NOT how MS finds engineers for its product creation groups.

Microsoft sends engineers to universities to interview candidates who apply for interviews through the placement offices of those universities. The theory is that engineers can recognize smart engineers better than some HR person. The universities they go to are usually in America or Canada (where there are a couple really good places for finding engineers due to their education method).

Those engineers bring back the people they want to bring back.

Sending a resume to the MS HR office in hopes of getting an engineering position is going to be a dead failure. Their HR gets tens of thousands of resumes. And, that's just not how the vast majority of engineers are found.

The very first thing Gates did when he "left" MS in 1998 was to go to Capitol Hill to lobby for Indian Business Visas.
Post 9/11 his attorneys conjured up the phrase "Americans lack the skill set...".
Wall Street went hog wild with enthusiasm behind Gates and now 3,000,000 Americans have been replaced by mostly H1-Bs and other categories of Indian Business Visas.
Yep, suddenly, everyone German, Italian, British and whatever other nationality of Business Visas became inept and was sent back home.
And yet India can't produce squat on it's own.
Bill Gates is one of the biggest career destroyers who ever crawled the earth.
And Investors can't get enough of him.
But Trump has his number and is our next President and has appointed Jess Sessions to solve this problem.
Sessions is one of the very few Representatives who has been screaming about this VERY issue for many years.

So go argue with Trump and Sessions.

Absolutely he lobbied for Indian visas. There are smart people in India and we desperately need smart people.

We don't have enough to level CS engineers in the US to attack the business opportunities that exist. So, we can't hire as many people, we can't compete with other countries the way we know how to, etc.

Nobody has been "replaced".

The American advantage over India includes that we know what to do with smart brains. Claiming that their lack of competitiveness as a nation means their engineers aren't qualified is just STUPID. There are all sorts of reasons for India's lack of competitiveness.


Selecting a bigot to stifle US high tech progress is one of the truly long lasting bits of damage Trump can do to America. It DAMAGES employment of Americans and SLOWS our competitiveness.

Sessions hasn't accepted my invitation to meet.

What we need is guys like YOU to help lobby congress to point out that for America to lead, we need to collect the smartest brains in the world, regardless of where they are.

We're only 5%!!! We need more than 5% of the brainpower if we're going to maintain or extend our leadership position.

 

[Indeependent]

You're right about Open Architecture.
What I meant to convey was Apple went Open in terms of portability...phones and tablets.
MS, IBM and Oracle tried to do the same and failed miserably.

I laughed my arse off when Steve Balmer introduced to the world the...LAPTOP.
Except the idiot called it Surface not realizing that Apple, HP, Dell, etc... beat him to the punch by a good couple of years.
That's what you get when you surround yourself with people who don't even know how to surf the web and see what's going on.

In terms of software development it has EVERYTHING to do with visas.
If you have an iPhone you'll see how often that Multi-National Corporate Apps have to be downloaded because of yet ANOTHER error.
If these coders knew what they were doing they wouldn't have to fix things like memory leaks every day.

Companies like Apple and Google get it right by spending the money and getting the talent.
Others simply reply on what they sold 30-40 years ago and keep pushing supposed "upgrades" of their software.
Heck, I can't see any reason to upgrade the MS Office since around 2000; there's not ONE feature that would make my life simpler.

It's ironic that nobody under the age of 40 ever heard of IBM or Oracle.

Now you're REALLY going nutty. MS is a software company. They really only make hardware as a side issue.

The fact of the matter is that FAR more computers run MS software than Apple software - noting that phones aren't in that category.

And, that has NOTHING to do with being "open". So, don't make excuses.

On phones, Apple has been on the CLOSED side of the scale, with it's requirements for Apple ownership of code written by application creators. MS has ALWAYS been MORE open - both in terms of business practices and technology. Period. As has Google with Android.

In fact, third parties have windows source code. How many corporations have the source code for Apple's various operating systems?

Once again, you're just plain confused about the business world of computers and software.

And, as for management, the hiring and compensation of MS employees is determined by managers who don't even have access to the immigration status of employees - it's just not their job. There job is to create software and evaluate the engineers in their group, promoting those who are good and firing those who aren't. So, suggesting visa holders are paid less is just plain stupid. That would require a complete reworking of how compensation is determined.

If you want to critique MS on their foray into the cell phone market, fine. But, attaching that to visa issues is absolute and total BS.

Human resources is COMPLETLEY responsible for which resumes are used and which are tossed in the trash.
They have their orders from the CEO who absolutely insists all IT jobs are to be given SOLELY to H1-Bs.
If you don't know this you haven't been reading your financial publications since 2004.

No, you charged MS of this. And, it is NOT how MS finds engineers for its product creation groups.

Microsoft sends engineers to universities to interview candidates who apply for interviews through the placement offices of those universities. The theory is that engineers can recognize smart engineers better than some HR person. The universities they go to are usually in America or Canada (where there are a couple really good places for finding engineers due to their education method).

Those engineers bring back the people they want to bring back.

Sending a resume to the MS HR office in hopes of getting an engineering position is going to be a dead failure. Their HR gets tens of thousands of resumes. And, that's just not how the vast majority of engineers are found.

The very first thing Gates did when he "left" MS in 1998 was to go to Capitol Hill to lobby for Indian Business Visas.
Post 9/11 his attorneys conjured up the phrase "Americans lack the skill set...".
Wall Street went hog wild with enthusiasm behind Gates and now 3,000,000 Americans have been replaced by mostly H1-Bs and other categories of Indian Business Visas.
Yep, suddenly, everyone German, Italian, British and whatever other nationality of Business Visas became inept and was sent back home.
And yet India can't produce squat on it's own.
Bill Gates is one of the biggest career destroyers who ever crawled the earth.
And Investors can't get enough of him.
But Trump has his number and is our next President and has appointed Jess Sessions to solve this problem.
Sessions is one of the very few Representatives who has been screaming about this VERY issue for many years.

So go argue with Trump and Sessions.

Absolutely he lobbied for Indian visas. There are smart people in India and we desperately need smart people.

We don't have enough to level CS engineers in the US to attack the business opportunities that exist. So, we can't hire as many people, we can't compete with other countries the way we know how to, etc.

Nobody has been "replaced".

The American advantage over India includes that we know what to do with smart brains. Claiming that their lack of competitiveness as a nation means their engineers aren't qualified is just STUPID. There are all sorts of reasons for India's lack of competitiveness.


Selecting a bigot to stifle US high tech progress is one of the truly long lasting bits of damage Trump can do to America. It DAMAGES employment of Americans and SLOWS our competitiveness.

Sessions hasn't accepted my invitation to meet.

What we need is guys like YOU to help lobby congress to point out that for America to lead, we need to collect the smartest brains in the world, regardless of where they are.

We're only 5%!!! We need more than 5% of the brainpower if we're going to maintain or extend our leadership position.

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

 

[WillReadmore]

Now you're REALLY going nutty. MS is a software company. They really only make hardware as a side issue.

The fact of the matter is that FAR more computers run MS software than Apple software - noting that phones aren't in that category.

And, that has NOTHING to do with being "open". So, don't make excuses.

On phones, Apple has been on the CLOSED side of the scale, with it's requirements for Apple ownership of code written by application creators. MS has ALWAYS been MORE open - both in terms of business practices and technology. Period. As has Google with Android.

In fact, third parties have windows source code. How many corporations have the source code for Apple's various operating systems?

Once again, you're just plain confused about the business world of computers and software.

And, as for management, the hiring and compensation of MS employees is determined by managers who don't even have access to the immigration status of employees - it's just not their job. There job is to create software and evaluate the engineers in their group, promoting those who are good and firing those who aren't. So, suggesting visa holders are paid less is just plain stupid. That would require a complete reworking of how compensation is determined.

If you want to critique MS on their foray into the cell phone market, fine. But, attaching that to visa issues is absolute and total BS.

Human resources is COMPLETLEY responsible for which resumes are used and which are tossed in the trash.
They have their orders from the CEO who absolutely insists all IT jobs are to be given SOLELY to H1-Bs.
If you don't know this you haven't been reading your financial publications since 2004.

No, you charged MS of this. And, it is NOT how MS finds engineers for its product creation groups.

Microsoft sends engineers to universities to interview candidates who apply for interviews through the placement offices of those universities. The theory is that engineers can recognize smart engineers better than some HR person. The universities they go to are usually in America or Canada (where there are a couple really good places for finding engineers due to their education method).

Those engineers bring back the people they want to bring back.

Sending a resume to the MS HR office in hopes of getting an engineering position is going to be a dead failure. Their HR gets tens of thousands of resumes. And, that's just not how the vast majority of engineers are found.

The very first thing Gates did when he "left" MS in 1998 was to go to Capitol Hill to lobby for Indian Business Visas.
Post 9/11 his attorneys conjured up the phrase "Americans lack the skill set...".
Wall Street went hog wild with enthusiasm behind Gates and now 3,000,000 Americans have been replaced by mostly H1-Bs and other categories of Indian Business Visas.
Yep, suddenly, everyone German, Italian, British and whatever other nationality of Business Visas became inept and was sent back home.
And yet India can't produce squat on it's own.
Bill Gates is one of the biggest career destroyers who ever crawled the earth.
And Investors can't get enough of him.
But Trump has his number and is our next President and has appointed Jess Sessions to solve this problem.
Sessions is one of the very few Representatives who has been screaming about this VERY issue for many years.

So go argue with Trump and Sessions.

Absolutely he lobbied for Indian visas. There are smart people in India and we desperately need smart people.

We don't have enough to level CS engineers in the US to attack the business opportunities that exist. So, we can't hire as many people, we can't compete with other countries the way we know how to, etc.

Nobody has been "replaced".

The American advantage over India includes that we know what to do with smart brains. Claiming that their lack of competitiveness as a nation means their engineers aren't qualified is just STUPID. There are all sorts of reasons for India's lack of competitiveness.


Selecting a bigot to stifle US high tech progress is one of the truly long lasting bits of damage Trump can do to America. It DAMAGES employment of Americans and SLOWS our competitiveness.

Sessions hasn't accepted my invitation to meet.

What we need is guys like YOU to help lobby congress to point out that for America to lead, we need to collect the smartest brains in the world, regardless of where they are.

We're only 5%!!! We need more than 5% of the brainpower if we're going to maintain or extend our leadership position.

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

 

[Indeependent]

Human resources is COMPLETLEY responsible for which resumes are used and which are tossed in the trash.
They have their orders from the CEO who absolutely insists all IT jobs are to be given SOLELY to H1-Bs.
If you don't know this you haven't been reading your financial publications since 2004.

No, you charged MS of this. And, it is NOT how MS finds engineers for its product creation groups.

Microsoft sends engineers to universities to interview candidates who apply for interviews through the placement offices of those universities. The theory is that engineers can recognize smart engineers better than some HR person. The universities they go to are usually in America or Canada (where there are a couple really good places for finding engineers due to their education method).

Those engineers bring back the people they want to bring back.

Sending a resume to the MS HR office in hopes of getting an engineering position is going to be a dead failure. Their HR gets tens of thousands of resumes. And, that's just not how the vast majority of engineers are found.

The very first thing Gates did when he "left" MS in 1998 was to go to Capitol Hill to lobby for Indian Business Visas.
Post 9/11 his attorneys conjured up the phrase "Americans lack the skill set...".
Wall Street went hog wild with enthusiasm behind Gates and now 3,000,000 Americans have been replaced by mostly H1-Bs and other categories of Indian Business Visas.
Yep, suddenly, everyone German, Italian, British and whatever other nationality of Business Visas became inept and was sent back home.
And yet India can't produce squat on it's own.
Bill Gates is one of the biggest career destroyers who ever crawled the earth.
And Investors can't get enough of him.
But Trump has his number and is our next President and has appointed Jess Sessions to solve this problem.
Sessions is one of the very few Representatives who has been screaming about this VERY issue for many years.

So go argue with Trump and Sessions.

Absolutely he lobbied for Indian visas. There are smart people in India and we desperately need smart people.

We don't have enough to level CS engineers in the US to attack the business opportunities that exist. So, we can't hire as many people, we can't compete with other countries the way we know how to, etc.

Nobody has been "replaced".

The American advantage over India includes that we know what to do with smart brains. Claiming that their lack of competitiveness as a nation means their engineers aren't qualified is just STUPID. There are all sorts of reasons for India's lack of competitiveness.


Selecting a bigot to stifle US high tech progress is one of the truly long lasting bits of damage Trump can do to America. It DAMAGES employment of Americans and SLOWS our competitiveness.

Sessions hasn't accepted my invitation to meet.

What we need is guys like YOU to help lobby congress to point out that for America to lead, we need to collect the smartest brains in the world, regardless of where they are.

We're only 5%!!! We need more than 5% of the brainpower if we're going to maintain or extend our leadership position.

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

 

[WillReadmore]

No, you charged MS of this. And, it is NOT how MS finds engineers for its product creation groups.

Microsoft sends engineers to universities to interview candidates who apply for interviews through the placement offices of those universities. The theory is that engineers can recognize smart engineers better than some HR person. The universities they go to are usually in America or Canada (where there are a couple really good places for finding engineers due to their education method).

Those engineers bring back the people they want to bring back.

Sending a resume to the MS HR office in hopes of getting an engineering position is going to be a dead failure. Their HR gets tens of thousands of resumes. And, that's just not how the vast majority of engineers are found.

The very first thing Gates did when he "left" MS in 1998 was to go to Capitol Hill to lobby for Indian Business Visas.
Post 9/11 his attorneys conjured up the phrase "Americans lack the skill set...".
Wall Street went hog wild with enthusiasm behind Gates and now 3,000,000 Americans have been replaced by mostly H1-Bs and other categories of Indian Business Visas.
Yep, suddenly, everyone German, Italian, British and whatever other nationality of Business Visas became inept and was sent back home.
And yet India can't produce squat on it's own.
Bill Gates is one of the biggest career destroyers who ever crawled the earth.
And Investors can't get enough of him.
But Trump has his number and is our next President and has appointed Jess Sessions to solve this problem.
Sessions is one of the very few Representatives who has been screaming about this VERY issue for many years.

So go argue with Trump and Sessions.

Absolutely he lobbied for Indian visas. There are smart people in India and we desperately need smart people.

We don't have enough to level CS engineers in the US to attack the business opportunities that exist. So, we can't hire as many people, we can't compete with other countries the way we know how to, etc.

Nobody has been "replaced".

The American advantage over India includes that we know what to do with smart brains. Claiming that their lack of competitiveness as a nation means their engineers aren't qualified is just STUPID. There are all sorts of reasons for India's lack of competitiveness.


Selecting a bigot to stifle US high tech progress is one of the truly long lasting bits of damage Trump can do to America. It DAMAGES employment of Americans and SLOWS our competitiveness.

Sessions hasn't accepted my invitation to meet.

What we need is guys like YOU to help lobby congress to point out that for America to lead, we need to collect the smartest brains in the world, regardless of where they are.

We're only 5%!!! We need more than 5% of the brainpower if we're going to maintain or extend our leadership position.

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

I don't see ANY evidence of what you're claiming.

Bill Gates set up his company in a way that makes it highly difficult or impossible to give ANY preference to those here with visas. So, I just flat out do not believe you on that one.

If you want to know what slows India's economy, go study that. Assuming it's because they are stupid is not logical. Maybe you could also study what is causing Pakistan's economy to be slow, or the Bangladeshi economy from being slow, or Mexico's, or whatever. These are interesting areas of study, but I don't see any reason to discuss them in this thread.

 

[Indeependent]

The very first thing Gates did when he "left" MS in 1998 was to go to Capitol Hill to lobby for Indian Business Visas.
Post 9/11 his attorneys conjured up the phrase "Americans lack the skill set...".
Wall Street went hog wild with enthusiasm behind Gates and now 3,000,000 Americans have been replaced by mostly H1-Bs and other categories of Indian Business Visas.
Yep, suddenly, everyone German, Italian, British and whatever other nationality of Business Visas became inept and was sent back home.
And yet India can't produce squat on it's own.
Bill Gates is one of the biggest career destroyers who ever crawled the earth.
And Investors can't get enough of him.
But Trump has his number and is our next President and has appointed Jess Sessions to solve this problem.
Sessions is one of the very few Representatives who has been screaming about this VERY issue for many years.

So go argue with Trump and Sessions.

Absolutely he lobbied for Indian visas. There are smart people in India and we desperately need smart people.

We don't have enough to level CS engineers in the US to attack the business opportunities that exist. So, we can't hire as many people, we can't compete with other countries the way we know how to, etc.

Nobody has been "replaced".

The American advantage over India includes that we know what to do with smart brains. Claiming that their lack of competitiveness as a nation means their engineers aren't qualified is just STUPID. There are all sorts of reasons for India's lack of competitiveness.


Selecting a bigot to stifle US high tech progress is one of the truly long lasting bits of damage Trump can do to America. It DAMAGES employment of Americans and SLOWS our competitiveness.

Sessions hasn't accepted my invitation to meet.

What we need is guys like YOU to help lobby congress to point out that for America to lead, we need to collect the smartest brains in the world, regardless of where they are.

We're only 5%!!! We need more than 5% of the brainpower if we're going to maintain or extend our leadership position.

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

I don't see ANY evidence of what you're claiming.

Bill Gates set up his company in a way that makes it highly difficult or impossible to give ANY preference to those here with visas. So, I just flat out do not believe you on that one.

If you want to know what slows India's economy, go study that. Assuming it's because they are stupid is not logical. Maybe you could also study what is causing Pakistan's economy to be slow, or the Bangladeshi economy from being slow, or Mexico's, or whatever. These are interesting areas of study, but I don't see any reason to discuss them in this thread.

In terms of MS, you are clueless.
I suggest watching the keynote speeches by MS and Apple and comparing the audiences.
The MS audiences are 100% Indians and the Apple audiences are from all over the globe.
That alone is a dead giveaway to anyone who cares to take notice.

I don't think ANY amount of evidence would enable you to see the truth concerning this issue.
I will presume you enjoy the benefits of cheap labor.
Fortunately, Trump and Sessions, and the people who voted for Trump see this blatant truth.
I would suggest reading more Wall Street publications who brag about this fact.
Heck, even Rush has been gushing over this since 2994.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Well, I believe this is a good idea but I'd limit it to "fields/degrees" that are able to pay back the investment to the state. No political science, no women studies and no history degrees....STEM mostly.

 

[WillReadmore]

No, you charged MS of this. And, it is NOT how MS finds engineers for its product creation groups.

Microsoft sends engineers to universities to interview candidates who apply for interviews through the placement offices of those universities. The theory is that engineers can recognize smart engineers better than some HR person. The universities they go to are usually in America or Canada (where there are a couple really good places for finding engineers due to their education method).

Those engineers bring back the people they want to bring back.

Sending a resume to the MS HR office in hopes of getting an engineering position is going to be a dead failure. Their HR gets tens of thousands of resumes. And, that's just not how the vast majority of engineers are found.

The very first thing Gates did when he "left" MS in 1998 was to go to Capitol Hill to lobby for Indian Business Visas.
Post 9/11 his attorneys conjured up the phrase "Americans lack the skill set...".
Wall Street went hog wild with enthusiasm behind Gates and now 3,000,000 Americans have been replaced by mostly H1-Bs and other categories of Indian Business Visas.
Yep, suddenly, everyone German, Italian, British and whatever other nationality of Business Visas became inept and was sent back home.
And yet India can't produce squat on it's own.
Bill Gates is one of the biggest career destroyers who ever crawled the earth.
And Investors can't get enough of him.
But Trump has his number and is our next President and has appointed Jess Sessions to solve this problem.
Sessions is one of the very few Representatives who has been screaming about this VERY issue for many years.

So go argue with Trump and Sessions.

Absolutely he lobbied for Indian visas. There are smart people in India and we desperately need smart people.

We don't have enough to level CS engineers in the US to attack the business opportunities that exist. So, we can't hire as many people, we can't compete with other countries the way we know how to, etc.

Nobody has been "replaced".

The American advantage over India includes that we know what to do with smart brains. Claiming that their lack of competitiveness as a nation means their engineers aren't qualified is just STUPID. There are all sorts of reasons for India's lack of competitiveness.


Selecting a bigot to stifle US high tech progress is one of the truly long lasting bits of damage Trump can do to America. It DAMAGES employment of Americans and SLOWS our competitiveness.

Sessions hasn't accepted my invitation to meet.

What we need is guys like YOU to help lobby congress to point out that for America to lead, we need to collect the smartest brains in the world, regardless of where they are.

We're only 5%!!! We need more than 5% of the brainpower if we're going to maintain or extend our leadership position.

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

You still don't have anything here.

H1-B's are conferred by corporations who judge whether the individual is someone in whom they want to make an investment. Whether corporations can pick good people is no

You're asking me to believe that

Absolutely he lobbied for Indian visas. There are smart people in India and we desperately need smart people.

We don't have enough to level CS engineers in the US to attack the business opportunities that exist. So, we can't hire as many people, we can't compete with other countries the way we know how to, etc.

Nobody has been "replaced".

The American advantage over India includes that we know what to do with smart brains. Claiming that their lack of competitiveness as a nation means their engineers aren't qualified is just STUPID. There are all sorts of reasons for India's lack of competitiveness.


Selecting a bigot to stifle US high tech progress is one of the truly long lasting bits of damage Trump can do to America. It DAMAGES employment of Americans and SLOWS our competitiveness.

Sessions hasn't accepted my invitation to meet.

What we need is guys like YOU to help lobby congress to point out that for America to lead, we need to collect the smartest brains in the world, regardless of where they are.

We're only 5%!!! We need more than 5% of the brainpower if we're going to maintain or extend our leadership position.

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

I don't see ANY evidence of what you're claiming.

Bill Gates set up his company in a way that makes it highly difficult or impossible to give ANY preference to those here with visas. So, I just flat out do not believe you on that one.

If you want to know what slows India's economy, go study that. Assuming it's because they are stupid is not logical. Maybe you could also study what is causing Pakistan's economy to be slow, or the Bangladeshi economy from being slow, or Mexico's, or whatever. These are interesting areas of study, but I don't see any reason to discuss them in this thread.

In terms of MS, you are clueless.
I suggest watching the keynote speeches by MS and Apple and comparing the audiences.
The MS audiences are 100% Indians and the Apple audiences are from all over the globe.
That alone is a dead giveaway to anyone who cares to take notice.

I don't think ANY amount of evidence would enable you to see the truth concerning this issue.
I will presume you enjoy the benefits of cheap labor.
Fortunately, Trump and Sessions, and the people who voted for Trump see this blatant truth.
I would suggest reading more Wall Street publications who brag about this fact.
Heck, even Rush has been gushing over this since 2994.

You keep coming up with stuff that proves absolutely nothing. So, you claim to have seen an event where MS drew an audience of more brown skinned people. WTF is THAT supposed to prove? In fact, your claim is too ridiculous for words.

What I'm saying is that there is no way for a product group manager to differentiate salary on the basis of visa status, and any differentiation based on race is something the company has clear and explicit rules about as well as substantial methods of verifying that employees are being compensated and promoted based on performance.

 

[Indeependent]

The very first thing Gates did when he "left" MS in 1998 was to go to Capitol Hill to lobby for Indian Business Visas.
Post 9/11 his attorneys conjured up the phrase "Americans lack the skill set...".
Wall Street went hog wild with enthusiasm behind Gates and now 3,000,000 Americans have been replaced by mostly H1-Bs and other categories of Indian Business Visas.
Yep, suddenly, everyone German, Italian, British and whatever other nationality of Business Visas became inept and was sent back home.
And yet India can't produce squat on it's own.
Bill Gates is one of the biggest career destroyers who ever crawled the earth.
And Investors can't get enough of him.
But Trump has his number and is our next President and has appointed Jess Sessions to solve this problem.
Sessions is one of the very few Representatives who has been screaming about this VERY issue for many years.

So go argue with Trump and Sessions.

Absolutely he lobbied for Indian visas. There are smart people in India and we desperately need smart people.

We don't have enough to level CS engineers in the US to attack the business opportunities that exist. So, we can't hire as many people, we can't compete with other countries the way we know how to, etc.

Nobody has been "replaced".

The American advantage over India includes that we know what to do with smart brains. Claiming that their lack of competitiveness as a nation means their engineers aren't qualified is just STUPID. There are all sorts of reasons for India's lack of competitiveness.

The very first thing Gates did when he "left" MS in 1998 was to go to Capitol Hill to lobby for Indian Business Visas.
Post 9/11 his attorneys conjured up the phrase "Americans lack the skill set...".
Wall Street went hog wild with enthusiasm behind Gates and now 3,000,000 Americans have been replaced by mostly H1-Bs and other categories of Indian Business Visas.
Yep, suddenly, everyone German, Italian, British and whatever other nationality of Business Visas became inept and was sent back home.
And yet India can't produce squat on it's own.
Bill Gates is one of the biggest career destroyers who ever crawled the earth.
And Investors can't get enough of him.
But Trump has his number and is our next President and has appointed Jess Sessions to solve this problem.
Sessions is one of the very few Representatives who has been screaming about this VERY issue for many years.

So go argue with Trump and Sessions.

Absolutely he lobbied for Indian visas. There are smart people in India and we desperately need smart people.

We don't have enough to level CS engineers in the US to attack the business opportunities that exist. So, we can't hire as many people, we can't compete with other countries the way we know how to, etc.

Nobody has been "replaced".

The American advantage over India includes that we know what to do with smart brains. Claiming that their lack of competitiveness as a nation means their engineers aren't qualified is just STUPID. There are all sorts of reasons for India's lack of competitiveness.


Selecting a bigot to stifle US high tech progress is one of the truly long lasting bits of damage Trump can do to America. It DAMAGES employment of Americans and SLOWS our competitiveness.

Sessions hasn't accepted my invitation to meet.

What we need is guys like YOU to help lobby congress to point out that for America to lead, we need to collect the smartest brains in the world, regardless of where they are.

We're only 5%!!! We need more than 5% of the brainpower if we're going to maintain or extend our leadership position.

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

You still don't have anything here.

H1-B's are conferred by corporations who judge whether the individual is someone in whom they want to make an investment. Whether corporations can pick good people is no

You're asking me to believe that

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

I don't see ANY evidence of what you're claiming.

Bill Gates set up his company in a way that makes it highly difficult or impossible to give ANY preference to those here with visas. So, I just flat out do not believe you on that one.

If you want to know what slows India's economy, go study that. Assuming it's because they are stupid is not logical. Maybe you could also study what is causing Pakistan's economy to be slow, or the Bangladeshi economy from being slow, or Mexico's, or whatever. These are interesting areas of study, but I don't see any reason to discuss them in this thread.

In terms of MS, you are clueless.
I suggest watching the keynote speeches by MS and Apple and comparing the audiences.
The MS audiences are 100% Indians and the Apple audiences are from all over the globe.
That alone is a dead giveaway to anyone who cares to take notice.

I don't think ANY amount of evidence would enable you to see the truth concerning this issue.
I will presume you enjoy the benefits of cheap labor.
Fortunately, Trump and Sessions, and the people who voted for Trump see this blatant truth.
I would suggest reading more Wall Street publications who brag about this fact.
Heck, even Rush has been gushing over this since 2994.

You keep coming up with stuff that proves absolutely nothing. So, you claim to have seen an event where MS drew an audience of more brown skinned people. WTF is THAT supposed to prove? In fact, your claim is too ridiculous for words.

What I'm saying is that there is no way for a product group manager to differentiate salary on the basis of visa status, and any differentiation based on race is something the company has clear and explicit rules about as well as substantial methods of verifying that employees are being compensated and promoted based on performance.

Selecting a bigot to stifle US high tech progress is one of the truly long lasting bits of damage Trump can do to America. It DAMAGES employment of Americans and SLOWS our competitiveness.

Sessions hasn't accepted my invitation to meet.

What we need is guys like YOU to help lobby congress to point out that for America to lead, we need to collect the smartest brains in the world, regardless of where they are.

We're only 5%!!! We need more than 5% of the brainpower if we're going to maintain or extend our leadership position.

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

You still don't have anything here.

H1-B's are conferred by corporations who judge whether the individual is someone in whom they want to make an investment. Whether corporations can pick good people is no

You're asking me to believe that

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

I don't see ANY evidence of what you're claiming.

Bill Gates set up his company in a way that makes it highly difficult or impossible to give ANY preference to those here with visas. So, I just flat out do not believe you on that one.

If you want to know what slows India's economy, go study that. Assuming it's because they are stupid is not logical. Maybe you could also study what is causing Pakistan's economy to be slow, or the Bangladeshi economy from being slow, or Mexico's, or whatever. These are interesting areas of study, but I don't see any reason to discuss them in this thread.

In terms of MS, you are clueless.
I suggest watching the keynote speeches by MS and Apple and comparing the audiences.
The MS audiences are 100% Indians and the Apple audiences are from all over the globe.
That alone is a dead giveaway to anyone who cares to take notice.

I don't think ANY amount of evidence would enable you to see the truth concerning this issue.
I will presume you enjoy the benefits of cheap labor.
Fortunately, Trump and Sessions, and the people who voted for Trump see this blatant truth.
I would suggest reading more Wall Street publications who brag about this fact.
Heck, even Rush has been gushing over this since 2994.

You keep coming up with stuff that proves absolutely nothing. So, you claim to have seen an event where MS drew an audience of more brown skinned people. WTF is THAT supposed to prove? In fact, your claim is too ridiculous for words.

What I'm saying is that there is no way for a product group manager to differentiate salary on the basis of visa status, and any differentiation based on race is something the company has clear and explicit rules about as well as substantial methods of verifying that employees are being compensated and promoted based on performance.

I understand that you pick up your "facts" from reading.
The reality is far from what you've been led to believe.
The major IT MNCs created a superset of skills that are rarely met in real life and yet proclaim that only Indians possess this superset of skills.
I will presume you have never compared the requirements of a business analyst to a computer programmer or an accountant to a computer programmer.
I have had attorneys and accountants view requirements for computer programmers and they have exclaimed, "What a croc."
The requirements for IT read like War & Peace.

But that's OK...President Trump and Jeff Sessions have seen the issue for what it is and it will be addressed.

 

[Doc1]

If New York makes public colleges and universities tuition-free, mark my words, state after state will follow.

"Free"?

 

[WillReadmore]

Absolutely he lobbied for Indian visas. There are smart people in India and we desperately need smart people.

We don't have enough to level CS engineers in the US to attack the business opportunities that exist. So, we can't hire as many people, we can't compete with other countries the way we know how to, etc.

Nobody has been "replaced".

The American advantage over India includes that we know what to do with smart brains. Claiming that their lack of competitiveness as a nation means their engineers aren't qualified is just STUPID. There are all sorts of reasons for India's lack of competitiveness.

Selecting a bigot to stifle US high tech progress is one of the truly long lasting bits of damage Trump can do to America. It DAMAGES employment of Americans and SLOWS our competitiveness.

Sessions hasn't accepted my invitation to meet.

What we need is guys like YOU to help lobby congress to point out that for America to lead, we need to collect the smartest brains in the world, regardless of where they are.

We're only 5%!!! We need more than 5% of the brainpower if we're going to maintain or extend our leadership position.

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

You still don't have anything here.

H1-B's are conferred by corporations who judge whether the individual is someone in whom they want to make an investment. Whether corporations can pick good people is no

You're asking me to believe that

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

I don't see ANY evidence of what you're claiming.

Bill Gates set up his company in a way that makes it highly difficult or impossible to give ANY preference to those here with visas. So, I just flat out do not believe you on that one.

If you want to know what slows India's economy, go study that. Assuming it's because they are stupid is not logical. Maybe you could also study what is causing Pakistan's economy to be slow, or the Bangladeshi economy from being slow, or Mexico's, or whatever. These are interesting areas of study, but I don't see any reason to discuss them in this thread.

In terms of MS, you are clueless.
I suggest watching the keynote speeches by MS and Apple and comparing the audiences.
The MS audiences are 100% Indians and the Apple audiences are from all over the globe.
That alone is a dead giveaway to anyone who cares to take notice.

I don't think ANY amount of evidence would enable you to see the truth concerning this issue.
I will presume you enjoy the benefits of cheap labor.
Fortunately, Trump and Sessions, and the people who voted for Trump see this blatant truth.
I would suggest reading more Wall Street publications who brag about this fact.
Heck, even Rush has been gushing over this since 2994.

You keep coming up with stuff that proves absolutely nothing. So, you claim to have seen an event where MS drew an audience of more brown skinned people. WTF is THAT supposed to prove? In fact, your claim is too ridiculous for words.

What I'm saying is that there is no way for a product group manager to differentiate salary on the basis of visa status, and any differentiation based on race is something the company has clear and explicit rules about as well as substantial methods of verifying that employees are being compensated and promoted based on performance.

I understand that you pick up your "facts" from reading.
The reality is far from what you've been led to believe.
The major IT MNCs created a superset of skills that are rarely met in real life and yet proclaim that only Indians possess this superset of skills.
I will presume you have never compared the requirements of a business analyst to a computer programmer or an accountant to a computer programmer.
I have had attorneys and accountants view requirements for computer programmers and they have exclaimed, "What a croc."
The requirements for IT read like War & Peace.

But that's OK...President Trump and Jeff Sessions have seen the issue for what it is and it will be addressed.

My primary career has been in managing software product creation, including everything from engineering (where I started) to marketing.

I've contributed to writing those requirements for technical positions.

I've contributed to organizing the search for talent that can meet those requirements.

btw, I have NOT said that the overall hiring of people from outside the US has zero effect, as economics does point out that when the supply is increased it has an affect on price. But, you've been arguing that individuals with a particular visa situation are paid differently within a corporation, and that is CRAP when it comes to major software corporations.

It isn't really possible to create corporate policy that is "visa-ist" any more than it is possible to create corporate policy that is racist. Remember that in these corporations fairly low level engineering managers make compensation decisions for their teams. Those decisions are guided by evaluation of technical contribution.

As for "War and Peace", technical job descriptions and requirements aren't written for accountants and lawyers. It's more likely that they are written to ensure engineers doing interviews are challenged to find great minds and to ensure that technical evaluations are adequately challenging.

 

[Indeependent]

Indians are smart?
No. I've worked with them and they are incompetent beyond words.
And of course you forgot to comment on the fact that EVERYONE else suddenly became incompetent.
Trump is NOT a bigot; he simply realizes that maligning everyone on earth EXCEPT for ONE nationality is done for the sole purpose MAXIMUM stock value AND is racist.

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

You still don't have anything here.

H1-B's are conferred by corporations who judge whether the individual is someone in whom they want to make an investment. Whether corporations can pick good people is no

You're asking me to believe that

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

I don't see ANY evidence of what you're claiming.

Bill Gates set up his company in a way that makes it highly difficult or impossible to give ANY preference to those here with visas. So, I just flat out do not believe you on that one.

If you want to know what slows India's economy, go study that. Assuming it's because they are stupid is not logical. Maybe you could also study what is causing Pakistan's economy to be slow, or the Bangladeshi economy from being slow, or Mexico's, or whatever. These are interesting areas of study, but I don't see any reason to discuss them in this thread.

In terms of MS, you are clueless.
I suggest watching the keynote speeches by MS and Apple and comparing the audiences.
The MS audiences are 100% Indians and the Apple audiences are from all over the globe.
That alone is a dead giveaway to anyone who cares to take notice.

I don't think ANY amount of evidence would enable you to see the truth concerning this issue.
I will presume you enjoy the benefits of cheap labor.
Fortunately, Trump and Sessions, and the people who voted for Trump see this blatant truth.
I would suggest reading more Wall Street publications who brag about this fact.
Heck, even Rush has been gushing over this since 2994.

You keep coming up with stuff that proves absolutely nothing. So, you claim to have seen an event where MS drew an audience of more brown skinned people. WTF is THAT supposed to prove? In fact, your claim is too ridiculous for words.

What I'm saying is that there is no way for a product group manager to differentiate salary on the basis of visa status, and any differentiation based on race is something the company has clear and explicit rules about as well as substantial methods of verifying that employees are being compensated and promoted based on performance.

I understand that you pick up your "facts" from reading.
The reality is far from what you've been led to believe.
The major IT MNCs created a superset of skills that are rarely met in real life and yet proclaim that only Indians possess this superset of skills.
I will presume you have never compared the requirements of a business analyst to a computer programmer or an accountant to a computer programmer.
I have had attorneys and accountants view requirements for computer programmers and they have exclaimed, "What a croc."
The requirements for IT read like War & Peace.

But that's OK...President Trump and Jeff Sessions have seen the issue for what it is and it will be addressed.

But, you've been arguing that individuals with a particular visa situation are paid differently within a corporation, and that is CRAP when it comes to major software corporations.

It's interesting as I actually have people in my neighborhood who own successful software firms, including Ofiice Automation, Healthcare and Brokerage Systems.
They tell me top dollar for an H1-B is $15.00/hour for a Masters and $22.00 for a Doctorate.
The people I know who work in Financial Firms so NOT hire the H1-Bs directly but subcontract them through Indian Firms and they pay the programmers at most $15.00/hour and fire them when they get their Green Cards.

Have you SEEN the paychecks of the Indian Business Visas working for you?
How many H1-Bs do you deal with directly?

 

[Doc1]

Children, NOTHING is "free".

 

[WillReadmore]

Now, you are resorting to racism.

The issue isn't that Indians are smart or the Americans are smart or that women are smart, or whatever.

The issue is that we have 5% of the brain power.

And, India has 3 times as many smart brains as we have.

China has 4 times as many smart brains as we have.

Ignoring those gigantic pools of the resource we need so badly, the resource that will provide us jobs, the resource at the center of the post-manufacturing economy ---- THAT is a very serious mistake.

It's like wanting to increase our US steel industry, but limiting access to iron.

BTW: I've never seen Trump do anything BUT malign those who are members of the "other" in any particular discussion - whether it has to do with his perception of beauty, physical capability, skin color, national origin, or whatever.

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

You still don't have anything here.

H1-B's are conferred by corporations who judge whether the individual is someone in whom they want to make an investment. Whether corporations can pick good people is no

You're asking me to believe that

I don't see ANY evidence of what you're claiming.

Bill Gates set up his company in a way that makes it highly difficult or impossible to give ANY preference to those here with visas. So, I just flat out do not believe you on that one.

If you want to know what slows India's economy, go study that. Assuming it's because they are stupid is not logical. Maybe you could also study what is causing Pakistan's economy to be slow, or the Bangladeshi economy from being slow, or Mexico's, or whatever. These are interesting areas of study, but I don't see any reason to discuss them in this thread.

In terms of MS, you are clueless.
I suggest watching the keynote speeches by MS and Apple and comparing the audiences.
The MS audiences are 100% Indians and the Apple audiences are from all over the globe.
That alone is a dead giveaway to anyone who cares to take notice.

I don't think ANY amount of evidence would enable you to see the truth concerning this issue.
I will presume you enjoy the benefits of cheap labor.
Fortunately, Trump and Sessions, and the people who voted for Trump see this blatant truth.
I would suggest reading more Wall Street publications who brag about this fact.
Heck, even Rush has been gushing over this since 2994.

You keep coming up with stuff that proves absolutely nothing. So, you claim to have seen an event where MS drew an audience of more brown skinned people. WTF is THAT supposed to prove? In fact, your claim is too ridiculous for words.

What I'm saying is that there is no way for a product group manager to differentiate salary on the basis of visa status, and any differentiation based on race is something the company has clear and explicit rules about as well as substantial methods of verifying that employees are being compensated and promoted based on performance.

I understand that you pick up your "facts" from reading.
The reality is far from what you've been led to believe.
The major IT MNCs created a superset of skills that are rarely met in real life and yet proclaim that only Indians possess this superset of skills.
I will presume you have never compared the requirements of a business analyst to a computer programmer or an accountant to a computer programmer.
I have had attorneys and accountants view requirements for computer programmers and they have exclaimed, "What a croc."
The requirements for IT read like War & Peace.

But that's OK...President Trump and Jeff Sessions have seen the issue for what it is and it will be addressed.

But, you've been arguing that individuals with a particular visa situation are paid differently within a corporation, and that is CRAP when it comes to major software corporations.

It's interesting as I actually have people in my neighborhood who own successful software firms, including Ofiice Automation, Healthcare and Brokerage Systems.
They tell me top dollar for an H1-B is $15.00/hour for a Masters and $22.00 for a Doctorate.
The people I know who work in Financial Firms so NOT hire the H1-Bs directly but subcontract them through Indian Firms and they pay the programmers at most $15.00/hour and fire them when they get their Green Cards.

Have you SEEN the paychecks of the Indian Business Visas working for you?
How many H1-Bs do you deal with directly?

Contractor rates vary for a number of reasons.

I'm all in favor of ending the kind of employee abuse you identify.

I've NEVER concerned myself with visa status of anyone in my company's employ. That is handled by corporate legal. On a personal level, I've seen these people go through great difficulties. One guy would have lost his progress in gaining citizenship if he left the USA, and his wife was not allowed to enter America - and that went on for two years!!

I've always been free to focus on developing world class software solutions. I believe there are small companies that take maximal advantage when their employees have a weakness such as immigration status. Denying visas because companies do that is not a valid solution.

I'll also point out that when those folks get their green cards, they will be hired based on competition with all other applicants. It's disgusting to hear that they get fired for getting a green card, but at least after that they are on the market.

Throughout my entire career I've never seen a software engineer get paid that little, by the way.

I've had to document with evidence that I would hire anyone with a particular technical skill set, including evidence of significant attempts to do so, as that has been a federal requirement. It's a pain, but I'm OK with that. And, I've always had open head count that would be filled with anyone who met the qualifications.

The catch here is that there just aren't enough serious software engineers being created. We have lots of folks who can bang out web pages or add rules to spreadsheets, etc., but that is irrelevant.

 

[Indeependent]

Ah! I was WAITING for, "Now, YOU are resorting to racism.".
Except for one very annoying fact...
I have worked with people from all over the world and many of them were not only extremely personable, they were GOOD at what they did.
THEY WERE ALL SENT HOME because Bill Gates and US Corporations wanted CHEAP LABOR.

Of the HUNDREDS of H1-Bs I have worked with, only ONE deserved to be here.

We don't need India except to suppress wages and increase Stock Value.
If India indeed had "3 times as many smart brains as we have.", their Body Shops wouldn't have to rely on the US.
I mean, really, what's REALLY stopping India fro making it on their own?

You still don't have anything here.

H1-B's are conferred by corporations who judge whether the individual is someone in whom they want to make an investment. Whether corporations can pick good people is no

You're asking me to believe that

In terms of MS, you are clueless.
I suggest watching the keynote speeches by MS and Apple and comparing the audiences.
The MS audiences are 100% Indians and the Apple audiences are from all over the globe.
That alone is a dead giveaway to anyone who cares to take notice.

I don't think ANY amount of evidence would enable you to see the truth concerning this issue.
I will presume you enjoy the benefits of cheap labor.
Fortunately, Trump and Sessions, and the people who voted for Trump see this blatant truth.
I would suggest reading more Wall Street publications who brag about this fact.
Heck, even Rush has been gushing over this since 2994.

You keep coming up with stuff that proves absolutely nothing. So, you claim to have seen an event where MS drew an audience of more brown skinned people. WTF is THAT supposed to prove? In fact, your claim is too ridiculous for words.

What I'm saying is that there is no way for a product group manager to differentiate salary on the basis of visa status, and any differentiation based on race is something the company has clear and explicit rules about as well as substantial methods of verifying that employees are being compensated and promoted based on performance.

I understand that you pick up your "facts" from reading.
The reality is far from what you've been led to believe.
The major IT MNCs created a superset of skills that are rarely met in real life and yet proclaim that only Indians possess this superset of skills.
I will presume you have never compared the requirements of a business analyst to a computer programmer or an accountant to a computer programmer.
I have had attorneys and accountants view requirements for computer programmers and they have exclaimed, "What a croc."
The requirements for IT read like War & Peace.

But that's OK...President Trump and Jeff Sessions have seen the issue for what it is and it will be addressed.

But, you've been arguing that individuals with a particular visa situation are paid differently within a corporation, and that is CRAP when it comes to major software corporations.

It's interesting as I actually have people in my neighborhood who own successful software firms, including Ofiice Automation, Healthcare and Brokerage Systems.
They tell me top dollar for an H1-B is $15.00/hour for a Masters and $22.00 for a Doctorate.
The people I know who work in Financial Firms so NOT hire the H1-Bs directly but subcontract them through Indian Firms and they pay the programmers at most $15.00/hour and fire them when they get their Green Cards.

Have you SEEN the paychecks of the Indian Business Visas working for you?
How many H1-Bs do you deal with directly?

Contractor rates vary for a number of reasons.

I'm all in favor of ending the kind of employee abuse you identify.

I've NEVER concerned myself with visa status of anyone in my company's employ. That is handled by corporate legal. On a personal level, I've seen these people go through great difficulties. One guy would have lost his progress in gaining citizenship if he left the USA, and his wife was not allowed to enter America - and that went on for two years!!

I've always been free to focus on developing world class software solutions. I believe there are small companies that take maximal advantage when their employees have a weakness such as immigration status. Denying visas because companies do that is not a valid solution.

I'll also point out that when those folks get their green cards, they will be hired based on competition with all other applicants. It's disgusting to hear that they get fired for getting a green card, but at least after that they are on the market.

Throughout my entire career I've never seen a software engineer get paid that little, by the way.

I've had to document with evidence that I would hire anyone with a particular technical skill set, including evidence of significant attempts to do so, as that has been a federal requirement. It's a pain, but I'm OK with that. And, I've always had open head count that would be filled with anyone who met the qualifications.

The catch here is that there just aren't enough serious software engineers being created. We have lots of folks who can bang out web pages or add rules to spreadsheets, etc., but that is irrelevant.

So the bottom line of reality is that you don't know.
Now you do.
By the way, MDs are being replaced also.
If ProHealth buys out your practice, you get a 2 year contract then they replace you with an Indian Business Visas.
I currently know 11 MDs who weren't expecting the businesses who bought out their practices to let them go.
They can't find employment as the clinics and hospitals in Nassau County are flooding over with IBVs.

 

[WillReadmore]

You still don't have anything here.

H1-B's are conferred by corporations who judge whether the individual is someone in whom they want to make an investment. Whether corporations can pick good people is no

You're asking me to believe that
You keep coming up with stuff that proves absolutely nothing. So, you claim to have seen an event where MS drew an audience of more brown skinned people. WTF is THAT supposed to prove? In fact, your claim is too ridiculous for words.

What I'm saying is that there is no way for a product group manager to differentiate salary on the basis of visa status, and any differentiation based on race is something the company has clear and explicit rules about as well as substantial methods of verifying that employees are being compensated and promoted based on performance.

I understand that you pick up your "facts" from reading.
The reality is far from what you've been led to believe.
The major IT MNCs created a superset of skills that are rarely met in real life and yet proclaim that only Indians possess this superset of skills.
I will presume you have never compared the requirements of a business analyst to a computer programmer or an accountant to a computer programmer.
I have had attorneys and accountants view requirements for computer programmers and they have exclaimed, "What a croc."
The requirements for IT read like War & Peace.

But that's OK...President Trump and Jeff Sessions have seen the issue for what it is and it will be addressed.

But, you've been arguing that individuals with a particular visa situation are paid differently within a corporation, and that is CRAP when it comes to major software corporations.

It's interesting as I actually have people in my neighborhood who own successful software firms, including Ofiice Automation, Healthcare and Brokerage Systems.
They tell me top dollar for an H1-B is $15.00/hour for a Masters and $22.00 for a Doctorate.
The people I know who work in Financial Firms so NOT hire the H1-Bs directly but subcontract them through Indian Firms and they pay the programmers at most $15.00/hour and fire them when they get their Green Cards.

Have you SEEN the paychecks of the Indian Business Visas working for you?
How many H1-Bs do you deal with directly?

Contractor rates vary for a number of reasons.

I'm all in favor of ending the kind of employee abuse you identify.

I've NEVER concerned myself with visa status of anyone in my company's employ. That is handled by corporate legal. On a personal level, I've seen these people go through great difficulties. One guy would have lost his progress in gaining citizenship if he left the USA, and his wife was not allowed to enter America - and that went on for two years!!

I've always been free to focus on developing world class software solutions. I believe there are small companies that take maximal advantage when their employees have a weakness such as immigration status. Denying visas because companies do that is not a valid solution.

I'll also point out that when those folks get their green cards, they will be hired based on competition with all other applicants. It's disgusting to hear that they get fired for getting a green card, but at least after that they are on the market.

Throughout my entire career I've never seen a software engineer get paid that little, by the way.

I've had to document with evidence that I would hire anyone with a particular technical skill set, including evidence of significant attempts to do so, as that has been a federal requirement. It's a pain, but I'm OK with that. And, I've always had open head count that would be filled with anyone who met the qualifications.

The catch here is that there just aren't enough serious software engineers being created. We have lots of folks who can bang out web pages or add rules to spreadsheets, etc., but that is irrelevant.

So the bottom line of reality is that you don't know.
Now you do.
By the way, MDs are being replaced also.
If ProHealth buys out your practice, you get a 2 year contract then they replace you with an Indian Business Visas.
I currently know 11 MDs who weren't expecting the businesses who bought out their practices to let them go.
They can't find employment as the clinics and hospitals in Nassau County are flooding over with IBVs.

This is a GREAT point. We have specific immigration programs that control bringing particular expertise to America. But, there is very different logic that must apply to different areas of expertise.

Doctors: We only need so many doctors per thousand population. Having more doctors doesn't widen the market or open new employment opportunity.

Computer scientists: We need exceptionally smart people in order to create MORE JOBS requiring even MORE computer scientists.

For example, Apple (and others) figured out how to allow people to create applets. Doing that required serious work on how to create an extensible architecture, including network services - even network services that use both the phone radio and the WIFI radio, connecting to different services. This is NOT easy stuff.

That meant that many THOUSANDS of new companies could start writing applets doing all sorts of stuff that Apple has no PRAYER of addressing. It also opened new businesses related to information distribution (news, corporate, purchasing, social, fun, whatever) and all sorts of other stuff. The few at Apple created jobs for HUGE numbers of people in numerous disciplines!!

I'm saying we need MORE of that.

 

[Indeependent]

I understand that you pick up your "facts" from reading.
The reality is far from what you've been led to believe.
The major IT MNCs created a superset of skills that are rarely met in real life and yet proclaim that only Indians possess this superset of skills.
I will presume you have never compared the requirements of a business analyst to a computer programmer or an accountant to a computer programmer.
I have had attorneys and accountants view requirements for computer programmers and they have exclaimed, "What a croc."
The requirements for IT read like War & Peace.

But that's OK...President Trump and Jeff Sessions have seen the issue for what it is and it will be addressed.

But, you've been arguing that individuals with a particular visa situation are paid differently within a corporation, and that is CRAP when it comes to major software corporations.

It's interesting as I actually have people in my neighborhood who own successful software firms, including Ofiice Automation, Healthcare and Brokerage Systems.
They tell me top dollar for an H1-B is $15.00/hour for a Masters and $22.00 for a Doctorate.
The people I know who work in Financial Firms so NOT hire the H1-Bs directly but subcontract them through Indian Firms and they pay the programmers at most $15.00/hour and fire them when they get their Green Cards.

Have you SEEN the paychecks of the Indian Business Visas working for you?
How many H1-Bs do you deal with directly?

Contractor rates vary for a number of reasons.

I'm all in favor of ending the kind of employee abuse you identify.

I've NEVER concerned myself with visa status of anyone in my company's employ. That is handled by corporate legal. On a personal level, I've seen these people go through great difficulties. One guy would have lost his progress in gaining citizenship if he left the USA, and his wife was not allowed to enter America - and that went on for two years!!

I've always been free to focus on developing world class software solutions. I believe there are small companies that take maximal advantage when their employees have a weakness such as immigration status. Denying visas because companies do that is not a valid solution.

I'll also point out that when those folks get their green cards, they will be hired based on competition with all other applicants. It's disgusting to hear that they get fired for getting a green card, but at least after that they are on the market.

Throughout my entire career I've never seen a software engineer get paid that little, by the way.

I've had to document with evidence that I would hire anyone with a particular technical skill set, including evidence of significant attempts to do so, as that has been a federal requirement. It's a pain, but I'm OK with that. And, I've always had open head count that would be filled with anyone who met the qualifications.

The catch here is that there just aren't enough serious software engineers being created. We have lots of folks who can bang out web pages or add rules to spreadsheets, etc., but that is irrelevant.

So the bottom line of reality is that you don't know.
Now you do.
By the way, MDs are being replaced also.
If ProHealth buys out your practice, you get a 2 year contract then they replace you with an Indian Business Visas.
I currently know 11 MDs who weren't expecting the businesses who bought out their practices to let them go.
They can't find employment as the clinics and hospitals in Nassau County are flooding over with IBVs.

This is a GREAT point. We have specific immigration programs that control bringing particular expertise to America. But, there is very different logic that must apply to different areas of expertise.

Doctors: We only need so many doctors per thousand population. Having more doctors doesn't widen the market or open new employment opportunity.

Computer scientists: We need exceptionally smart people in order to create MORE JOBS requiring even MORE computer scientists.

For example, Apple (and others) figured out how to allow people to create applets. Doing that required serious work on how to create an extensible architecture, including network services - even network services that use both the phone radio and the WIFI radio, connecting to different services. This is NOT easy stuff.

That meant that many THOUSANDS of new companies could start writing applets doing all sorts of stuff that Apple has no PRAYER of addressing. It also opened new businesses related to information distribution (news, corporate, purchasing, social, fun, whatever) and all sorts of other stuff. The few at Apple created jobs for HUGE numbers of people in numerous disciplines!!

I'm saying we need MORE of that.

I agree that those who develop device drivers must be the best but that comprises probably about 1% of H1-Bs.
The overwhelming majority of H1-Bs are here to write mundane code.

Most Applets are simple Copy & Paste at this point in time as just about every App does what every other App does.

Insofar as replacing MDs of all nationalities with Indians I think you've got some major stock cheap foreign labor.

Check out...
House Bill HR633
Senate Bill S744
These bills would replace almost 2 million Americans a year with Business Visas.

But I know...you think that's a good thing.
Until YOU'RE replaced.

 

[Thunderbird]

I'm fully in favor of what universities are doing in order to slow the rise in racism and bigotry on their campuses.

Do you hate freedom of speech and tolerance of opposing views?

And check this out: University Affirmative-Action Admissions Policies Are Toxic