Let's Talk.........I mean REALLY Talk.......

[Flopper]

leave your partisan bullshit at the door.....forget the left versus right paradigm. I want to know how you really feel about the direction of this country in the last 36 years and how you feel it has gotten better, gotten worse. Leave your political affiliations at the door explain what you see is happening and why.........most of us remember the Nixon and Carter days. We have seen the change.........

My personal believe is that we are in serious trouble and I am talking about the kind of trouble that will make the orchestrated crash of 1929 seem tame by comparison....wanna talk me off the ledge? Please do so.....

When I was little kid, I can remember my grandfather in the late 40's proclaiming the pending financial downfall of the the country's due to 250 billion dollar war debt. Well, that debt has grown to about 19 trillion dollars over the last 65 years and during that time life has been pretty good to most Americans compared to previous 65 years.

As headlines often remind us, each U.S. citizen owes a share of our currently $19 trillion public debt. But Americans also own approximately $12 trillion of that debt – as participants in Social Security, insurance policyholders, participants in pension funds, stockholders, or, more directly, by virtue of having purchased Treasury notes. “Treasuries” are very secure, and those not owned by Americans are held by foreign banks and governments that are glad for the chance to lend money, securely, to the United States.

The size of national debt in itself is no real importance. What is important is that holders of that debt have faith that the United States will make good on it's promise to pay them back with interest. So as long as people have faith in the US government, we will continue to sell new debt to pay off old. There is really no limit to how high the debt can rise, as long as creditors trust the US to make good on it's promises.

I think there are an awfully lot of things to worry about that more important than the size of the US debt.
Why There is Nothing Scary about the U.S. National Debt | Scholars Strategy Network

Yeah.....keep on believing that fallacy and spare me a thought when the whole thing collapses because it will under the very weight of it's debt that we are not liable for.

The nation is not going to come crashing down because of the weight of it's debt for several very good reasons.

• First of all the debt will never have to be paid off. The government, unlike us, doesn't need to pay back its debts before it dies, because it doesn't die. In other words, the government can just roll over its debts in perpetuity.
• Second, interest on the debt will not bring down the nation. It could force us to increase taxes or cut spending which could have a negative impact on the economy.
• Lastly, the only way our debt burden can bring down the nation is if our creditors, find another government which offers more safety of principal and a large enough debt offering to meet their needs. That certainly does not seem likely in the foreseeable future.

In my opinion the greatest problem we face is not financial. It is the growing political divide. We are fast reaching a point of complete gridlock such that neither side will be willing to compromise regardless how important it is to the nation that we do. Now that is scary when opposing political forces choose destruction of the nation rather than work together.

 

[boedicca]

leave your partisan bullshit at the door.....forget the left versus right paradigm. I want to know how you really feel about the direction of this country in the last 36 years and how you feel it has gotten better, gotten worse. Leave your political affiliations at the door explain what you see is happening and why.........most of us remember the Nixon and Carter days. We have seen the change.........

My personal believe is that we are in serious trouble and I am talking about the kind of trouble that will make the orchestrated crash of 1929 seem tame by comparison....wanna talk me off the ledge? Please do so.....

When I was little kid, I can remember my grandfather in the late 40's proclaiming the pending financial downfall of the the country's due to 250 billion dollar war debt. Well, that debt has grown to about 19 trillion dollars over the last 65 years and during that time life has been pretty good to most Americans compared to previous 65 years.

As headlines often remind us, each U.S. citizen owes a share of our currently $19 trillion public debt. But Americans also own approximately $12 trillion of that debt – as participants in Social Security, insurance policyholders, participants in pension funds, stockholders, or, more directly, by virtue of having purchased Treasury notes. “Treasuries” are very secure, and those not owned by Americans are held by foreign banks and governments that are glad for the chance to lend money, securely, to the United States.

The size of national debt in itself is no real importance. What is important is that holders of that debt have faith that the United States will make good on it's promise to pay them back with interest. So as long as people have faith in the US government, we will continue to sell new debt to pay off old. There is really no limit to how high the debt can rise, as long as creditors trust the US to make good on it's promises.

I think there are an awfully lot of things to worry about that more important than the size of the US debt.
Why There is Nothing Scary about the U.S. National Debt | Scholars Strategy Network

Yeah.....keep on believing that fallacy and spare me a thought when the whole thing collapses because it will under the very weight of it's debt that we are not liable for.

The nation is not going to come crashing down because of the weight of it's debt for several very good reasons.

• First of all the debt will never have to be paid off. The government, unlike us, doesn't need to pay back its debts before it dies, because it doesn't die. In other words, the government can just roll over its debts in perpetuity.
• Second, interest on the debt will not bring down the nation. It could force us to increase taxes or cut spending which would could have a negative impact on the economy.
• Lastly, the only way our debt burden can bring down the nation is if our creditors, find another government which offers more safety of principal and a large enough debt offering to meet their needs. That certainly does not seem likely in the foreseeable future.

Your economic and historical illiteracy is showing. Excessive debt causes nations to fail.

Add the reported debt to the $Trillions of unfunded liabilities for SS and Medicare, and the country is technically insolvent. The Fed is desperate to keep ZIRP in place because normal interest rates would hundreds of $ Billions to annual expenditures. Get ready for NIRP and a cashless society. I'm sure you'll love those.

 

[Flopper]

leave your partisan bullshit at the door.....forget the left versus right paradigm. I want to know how you really feel about the direction of this country in the last 36 years and how you feel it has gotten better, gotten worse. Leave your political affiliations at the door explain what you see is happening and why.........most of us remember the Nixon and Carter days. We have seen the change.........

My personal believe is that we are in serious trouble and I am talking about the kind of trouble that will make the orchestrated crash of 1929 seem tame by comparison....wanna talk me off the ledge? Please do so.....

When I was little kid, I can remember my grandfather in the late 40's proclaiming the pending financial downfall of the the country's due to 250 billion dollar war debt. Well, that debt has grown to about 19 trillion dollars over the last 65 years and during that time life has been pretty good to most Americans compared to previous 65 years.

As headlines often remind us, each U.S. citizen owes a share of our currently $19 trillion public debt. But Americans also own approximately $12 trillion of that debt – as participants in Social Security, insurance policyholders, participants in pension funds, stockholders, or, more directly, by virtue of having purchased Treasury notes. “Treasuries” are very secure, and those not owned by Americans are held by foreign banks and governments that are glad for the chance to lend money, securely, to the United States.

The size of national debt in itself is no real importance. What is important is that holders of that debt have faith that the United States will make good on it's promise to pay them back with interest. So as long as people have faith in the US government, we will continue to sell new debt to pay off old. There is really no limit to how high the debt can rise, as long as creditors trust the US to make good on it's promises.

I think there are an awfully lot of things to worry about that more important than the size of the US debt.
Why There is Nothing Scary about the U.S. National Debt | Scholars Strategy Network

Yeah.....keep on believing that fallacy and spare me a thought when the whole thing collapses because it will under the very weight of it's debt that we are not liable for.

The nation is not going to come crashing down because of the weight of it's debt for several very good reasons.

• First of all the debt will never have to be paid off. The government, unlike us, doesn't need to pay back its debts before it dies, because it doesn't die. In other words, the government can just roll over its debts in perpetuity.
• Second, interest on the debt will not bring down the nation. It could force us to increase taxes or cut spending which would could have a negative impact on the economy.
• Lastly, the only way our debt burden can bring down the nation is if our creditors, find another government which offers more safety of principal and a large enough debt offering to meet their needs. That certainly does not seem likely in the foreseeable future.

Your economic and historical illiteracy is showing. Excessive debt causes nations to fail.

Add the reported debt to the $Trillions of unfunded liabilities for SS and Medicare, and the country is technically insolvent. The Fed is desperate to keep ZIRP in place because normal interest rates would hundreds of $ Billions to annual expenditures. Get ready for NIRP and a cashless society. I'm sure you'll love those.

It is not the size of debt that is important. It's the ability of the country to continue to refinance debt and make interest payments. Interest payments on US debt stands at 6% of budget. Even if it were twice that we could easily manage it because we have the capacity to cut spending or increase revenue. The only way the nation will default would be if we choose to do so.

 

[Divine Wind]

...Add the reported debt to the $Trillions of unfunded liabilities for SS and Medicare, and the country is technically insolvent. The Fed is desperate to keep ZIRP in place because normal interest rates would hundreds of $ Billions to annual expenditures. Get ready for NIRP and a cashless society. I'm sure you'll love those.

Although I'm not a doomsayer, it's completely correct to say we can't keep spending so much more than we make.

Obviously the LWers want to jack up taxes to the point of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" while the RWers want to keep deficit spending money on infrastructure and military adventures to protect profits while cutting taxes. Both are idiots. Both are going against our nation's long term interests. It's one of the reasons why so many Americans are frustrated, disturbed, willing to try any form of change, but also loathsome of the two current candidates.

My recommendation? Send a message; vote Libertarian. It isn't perfect, it won't win but why keep voting for the lesser of two EVILS?

 

[rightwinger]

I believe the Trump candidacy is all the proof of idiocracy you need

If the Republicans were running Trump and the Democrats were running Truman or JFK, I'd agree, but since both parties are running the most loathsome candidates I've ever seen in 60 years, I think you are being biased. The idiocy is clear among both parties.

My advice, vote third party. Send a message. Vote Libertarian.

Hillary is loathsome to conservatives

Trump is loathsome to anyone who understands our countries values

 

[candycorn]

leave your partisan bullshit at the door.....forget the left versus right paradigm. I want to know how you really feel about the direction of this country in the last 36 years and how you feel it has gotten better, gotten worse. Leave your political affiliations at the door explain what you see is happening and why.........most of us remember the Nixon and Carter days. We have seen the change.........

My personal believe is that we are in serious trouble and I am talking about the kind of trouble that will make the orchestrated crash of 1929 seem tame by comparison....wanna talk me off the ledge? Please do so.....

When I was little kid, I can remember my grandfather in the late 40's proclaiming the pending financial downfall of the the country's due to 250 billion dollar war debt. Well, that debt has grown to about 19 trillion dollars over the last 65 years and during that time life has been pretty good to most Americans compared to previous 65 years.

As headlines often remind us, each U.S. citizen owes a share of our currently $19 trillion public debt. But Americans also own approximately $12 trillion of that debt – as participants in Social Security, insurance policyholders, participants in pension funds, stockholders, or, more directly, by virtue of having purchased Treasury notes. “Treasuries” are very secure, and those not owned by Americans are held by foreign banks and governments that are glad for the chance to lend money, securely, to the United States.

The size of national debt in itself is no real importance. What is important is that holders of that debt have faith that the United States will make good on it's promise to pay them back with interest. So as long as people have faith in the US government, we will continue to sell new debt to pay off old. There is really no limit to how high the debt can rise, as long as creditors trust the US to make good on it's promises.

I think there are an awfully lot of things to worry about that more important than the size of the US debt.
Why There is Nothing Scary about the U.S. National Debt | Scholars Strategy Network

How much % of the budget goes to pay interest on the National Debt? I think "scary" is the wrong word. I think we miss a lot of opportunities to embetter the citizen's lives because of the debt.

6% of the US Budget goes to pay interest on the debt

It may sound scary but issuing US debt is not only necessary but is a good thing because it gives us a way to pay for things we need when we need them. For example, when a major recession hits, issuing debt allows the government to help millions of people and to stimulate the economy. When the country is threaten with national disasters or threats from abroad, the government can respond.

The United States suffers from obvious deficiencies in roads, rails, water systems and more; meanwhile, the federal government can borrow at historically low interest rates. So this is a very good time to be borrowing and investing in the future, and a very bad time for what has actually happened, an unprecedented decline in public construction.

I totally agree with you on that.

 

[Yousaidwhat]

leave your partisan bullshit at the door.....forget the left versus right paradigm. I want to know how you really feel about the direction of this country in the last 36 years and how you feel it has gotten better, gotten worse. Leave your political affiliations at the door explain what you see is happening and why.........most of us remember the Nixon and Carter days. We have seen the change.........

My personal believe is that we are in serious trouble and I am talking about the kind of trouble that will make the orchestrated crash of 1929 seem tame by comparison....wanna talk me off the ledge? Please do so.....

Name three or four things that you think make us 'in serious trouble'.

Jobs

Income

Debt

 

[leftwinger]

I don't have figures in front of but debt payments only 6% of annual spending sounds very low? $500B/$4T would be 12.5%? Correct? No calc used.....

 

[Yousaidwhat]

What is it that you want to do but can't anymore?

I would look at it as not whether Dale or you, I or anyone else on this board can't do what we want anymore.

Looking at the country as a whole, there are many who are suffering, living day to day. One check away from losing everything, wanting to do the things they want to do but can't.

This affects society which affects all of us.

To some, the bigger picture is bleak.

 

[Yousaidwhat]

I see an increase in the concentration of wealth and power in the upper class. I see lower wages and fewer benefits for working Americans. I see fewer public services and less investment in public infrastructure as we have slashed our tax rates

I see corporations who are exempt from taxes and wield global influence. I see a political system that is no longer functional and is dictated by the super wealthy and the media

The Rich spend billions in a propaganda campaign that blames everyone but the rich for America's problems.

And our Representatives are in bed with them.

Campaigning, telling the rich it is the poor causing them grief, then telling the poor it is the rich causing theirs, getting financing from the rich and votes from the poor.

 

[Yousaidwhat]

I see an increase in the concentration of wealth and power in the upper class. I see lower wages and fewer benefits for working Americans. I see fewer public services and less investment in public infrastructure as we have slashed our tax rates

I see corporations who are exempt from taxes and wield global influence. I see a political system that is no longer functional and is dictated by the super wealthy and the media

I see waste and malfeasance with our tax dollars.
For example 100 billion a year is collected in various taxes and fees that are supposed to be earmarked for infrastructure upkeep

tell me where the fuck does all that money go?

There is waste and malfeasance in any government. I would guess our government is one of the least wasteful and corrupt

Our Government should not be wasteful nor corrupt, even in the least.

The fed needs to be audited.

 

[Dale Smith]

Yep.....the DHS has purchased 30,000 guillotines....you can find the purchase order of these easily.....

I hope you're just fucking with the conspiracy theorist nutjobs....which is fine by me.

U.S. Government Purchases 30,000 Guillotines

Bill Pawelec, ex-CIA, verified that guillotines were being stored on several military bases. A.C. Griffith, ex-NSA, said the same thing numerous times on talk shows...he has since died as has Pawelec. I believe that there is no question that the story is true.
.

Then I submit that Bill is either a fucking loon or he's fucking with the stupid people in America.

Let's run with this silly idea for a few minutes. Why buy and use something so horrific to Americans when the Chinese way is not only cheaper, but closer to American ideals? What's the logic behind this truly stupid conspiracy theory?

Ted Gunderson spent 30 years in the FBI and investigated many high profile cases and he also says that there are FEMA camps and 15,000 guillotines at some base in Montana and 15,000 at Fort Lewis in Georgia

Really? You believe that Oswald was the shooter? Do you know that they tested him for gun powder blow back using the Paraffin test and found nothing but a small spot on his left hand? There is the "gubermint" that you see and then there is the shadow "gubermint" that is actually calling the shots. Did you know that there are security clearances higher than the president and that there is a black ops budget that has no oversight whatsoever? Who the fuck put these people in charge and why are they allowed to operate outside of their corporate constitution?

Okay, the thing is, you really believe this crazy shit, and that's kind of sad.

Let's address the Lusitania....there was ammunition headed for England on it and Germany took out full page ads warning people about that any ship carrying ammo was going to be targeted.

which didn't matter. Firing on civilian ships without warning was STILL against the international agreements Germany had signed. Germany did exactly what we went to war with them over, after they had promised numerous times to knock it the fuck off.

The Balfour Declaration that would establish a Jewish state was negotiated by England and the international bankers that if they would give up Palestine that they could get the United States in WWI so the sinking of the Lusitania was necessary and accomplished their goal.

I KNEW you'd work the Jews in there eventually. Good show.

The Japanese code was broken almost a year before Pearl Harbor and they knew exactly when the attack was to happen. The attack was necessary in order to get Americans to support entry into the war.

Unlikely, since the Japanese executed radio silence until the attack.

There could have been no Nazi Germany without Wall Street and the banking oligarchs and they made money off it. They traded and supported the Nazis during WWII and then picked over the carcass of what was left by using the Vatican ratlines to bring in Nazi intelligence officers and scientists under "Operation Paperclip" and placed them in key positions after they whitewashed their backgrounds.

Wow, so you think the Catholic Church is in on it, too? Man, you are hitting the bigot trifecta... all you need to do is say something aobut the Muslims.

This is all de-classified information, dude. I know more than you....I dedicate most of my time to learning the kinds of things that you can't even wrap your head around.

You mean you dedicate your time to making yourself crazier when you should be availing yourself of a good shrink.

You can't defeat me in a debate when it comes to what is really going on.

No, I can honestly say, I can't run down the rabbit holes of your crazy.

The CIA runs opium into this country and has since the 1950's and it funds their black ops. Drug money laundered by their banks is what keeps the ATMs filled with cash because 97 percent of our money is nothing but numbers in a computer.

And more crazy...

Drugs are a "cash only business" and your beloved "gubermint" is up to their necks in it.....get it now? Bring on some more shit, Joe.....I can do this all day and night.

Yes, sadly, you can. YOu need help. I'm serious.

Like I have I have said MANY times....spend even a tenth of the time I have in reading and researching something other than "gubermint" approved books and websites because it is in their best interest to lie to you. The fact that you do not know that the CIA has been delivering cocaine and heroin into this country for decades when there is a multitude of evidence and outright confessions of those bring it in kills any credibility (as little as it was to begin with) to debunk anything I post here. You are a shill....nothing more and nothing less. You are in for a very rude awakening and that is coming very soon.

 

[Flopper]

I don't have figures in front of but debt payments only 6% of annual spending sounds very low? $500B/$4T would be 12.5%? Correct? No calc used.....

In 2015, the U.S. spent $223 billion, or 6 percent of the federal budget, paying for interest on the debt.
Q&A: Everything You Need to Know About the National Debt - Fix The Debt

 

[Dale Smith]

I don't have figures in front of but debt payments only 6% of annual spending sounds very low? $500B/$4T would be 12.5%? Correct? No calc used.....

In 2015, the U.S. spent $223 billion, or 6 percent of the federal budget, paying for interest on the debt.
Q&A: Everything You Need to Know About the National Debt - Fix The Debt

On credit extended by a central bank that created that credit from nothing. The IRS is simply a Puerto Rican Trust # 62 that is simply a collection arm of the International Monetary Fund that took USA.INC into receivership in 1950 after it went bankrupt yet again.

 

[P@triot]

leave your partisan bullshit at the door.....forget the left versus right paradigm. I want to know how you really feel about the direction of this country in the last 36 years and how you feel it has gotten better, gotten worse. Leave your political affiliations at the door explain what you see is happening and why.........most of us remember the Nixon and Carter days. We have seen the change.........

My personal believe is that we are in serious trouble and I am talking about the kind of trouble that will make the orchestrated crash of 1929 seem tame by comparison....wanna talk me off the ledge? Please do so.....

This nation is spiraling out of control...

• First and foremost - the U.S. Constitution is being absolutely shredded. If we don't restore it immediately, we won't make it.

• Part of the shredding of the U.S. Constitution is the executive branch assuming almost all power and the Supreme Court stealing whatever little is left. Congress has been made completely irrelevant.

• We're $20 trillion in debt and climbing by the second. It's completely unsustainable and anyone who claims raising taxes is the solution is beyond clueless. We have a spending problem in this country. The last few years, the federal government has taken in over $4 trillion per year in taxes. Highest in history. And we're still running extreme deficits every year. We have to gut spending (and not defense).

• The 10th Amendment needs to be restored. Like Congress, the states have been stripped of all powers they were intented to have. The federal government must be explicitly restricted to their 18 enumerated powers and everything else turned over to the states and the people.

• Both sides of the aisle need to stop this "the ends justify the means" nonsense and run the liars, the thieves, and the unethical criminals out of politics. Which means that both Hitlery and Trump should be sitting at home right now.

 

[Flopper]

I don't have figures in front of but debt payments only 6% of annual spending sounds very low? $500B/$4T would be 12.5%? Correct? No calc used.....

In 2015, the U.S. spent $223 billion, or 6 percent of the federal budget, paying for interest on the debt.
Q&A: Everything You Need to Know About the National Debt - Fix The Debt

On credit extended by a central bank that created that credit from nothing. The IRS is simply a Puerto Rican Trust # 62 that is simply a collection arm of the International Monetary Fund that took USA.INC into receivership in 1950 after it went bankrupt yet again.

That's nonsense.

 

[Dale Smith]

I don't have figures in front of but debt payments only 6% of annual spending sounds very low? $500B/$4T would be 12.5%? Correct? No calc used.....

In 2015, the U.S. spent $223 billion, or 6 percent of the federal budget, paying for interest on the debt.
Q&A: Everything You Need to Know About the National Debt - Fix The Debt

On credit extended by a central bank that created that credit from nothing. The IRS is simply a Puerto Rican Trust # 62 that is simply a collection arm of the International Monetary Fund that took USA.INC into receivership in 1950 after it went bankrupt yet again.

That's nonsense.

You were saying.......


Company Search

 

[Dale Smith]

I don't have figures in front of but debt payments only 6% of annual spending sounds very low? $500B/$4T would be 12.5%? Correct? No calc used.....

In 2015, the U.S. spent $223 billion, or 6 percent of the federal budget, paying for interest on the debt.
Q&A: Everything You Need to Know About the National Debt - Fix The Debt

On credit extended by a central bank that created that credit from nothing. The IRS is simply a Puerto Rican Trust # 62 that is simply a collection arm of the International Monetary Fund that took USA.INC into receivership in 1950 after it went bankrupt yet again.

That's nonsense.

You might find this very interesting as well.......


Supreme Law Library: The Cooper File

 

[oreo]

leave your partisan bullshit at the door.....forget the left versus right paradigm. I want to know how you really feel about the direction of this country in the last 36 years and how you feel it has gotten better, gotten worse. Leave your political affiliations at the door explain what you see is happening and why.........most of us remember the Nixon and Carter days. We have seen the change.........

My personal believe is that we are in serious trouble and I am talking about the kind of trouble that will make the orchestrated crash of 1929 seem tame by comparison....wanna talk me off the ledge? Please do so.....

I do believe we're in a fiscal crisis. We have 10K baby boomers entering social security/medicare on a daily basis and this will continue for the next 12 years. Adding an additional 84 trillion in unfunded liabilities.

Back in the 1950's average family size was 4 kids, over the last several decades, kid size has been reduced to 2 or less. IOW--there aren't enough working youth in this country to support these two funds.

I would like to see the bipartisanship finally come together to come up with a realistic plan to fix this situation, versus using this topic as a political football and thereby constantly passing it onto the next administration.

I like Paul Ryan's path to prosperity, and he has stated that he would work well with Hillary Clinton, so I'll be voting for her.
youtube video paul ryans path to prosperity - Yahoo Search Results

Rep. Paul Ryan (Wis.), the 2012 GOP vice presidential candidate, last year said if Clinton had become president in 2009, “we’d have fixed this fiscal mess by now.

Hillary's secret weapon? GOP praise

 

[Katzndogz]

I see waste and malfeasance with our tax dollars.
For example 100 billion a year is collected in various taxes and fees that are supposed to be earmarked for infrastructure upkeep

tell me where the fuck does all that money go?

Keeping up the infrastructure, dumbass. The problem is, 100 billion isn't enough to cover the needs.

Is some of that money wasted on a big Red State with no people in it and a Senator who sits on an influential committee? Yup. But the real problem is we are looking at infrastructure that was largely built back in the 1950's and it's all crumbling now. Mostly because we had leaders who think it's more important to give tax breaks to rich people and fight wars in the Middle East.

Bullshit

It would be enough if it wasn't wasted on bike paths, stupid staues and other useless projects and actually used for what it was meant for

It would be more than enough if we weren't resettling refugees.