Levin: Repeal the 17th Amendment

[Avatar4321]

Madison despised democracy

Which is, of course, why he came up with a plan for a Constitutional Republic.

 

[Avatar4321]

yet you advocate repeating the failures and flaws of Madison

Oh the irony

Madison didn't fail, Nimrod. Repealing Madison was the failure.

The infallibility of Madison has been ruled 'bullshit'

Interesting considering that no one has called Madison infalliable.

Just because someone is a genius doesn't mean he is infalliable.

Doesn't change the fact that he was a major contributor in creating the greatest government ever devised by man.

 

[Avatar4321]

No. All elected officials should be elected by the people, one vote per person. We need to do away with the Electoral College.

Should we elect all the bureacrats too? Should we simply due away with all checks and balances because we want to feel good about voting for the less of two evils?

 

[PrometheusBound]

The party may be doomed to fail but the demise of the US is the result of that failure. When you wake up to living in a communist system you have nobody to blame for it than you. No more individual success, no more individual decisions the government will decide for you. As if they have your best interest at heart.

We'll only be a Communist state for a few months, after that the Oathkeepers will rally more than 80% of the military against the Communist pigs.

It will be a bloodbath, but the economy will be booming shortly after when we restore Gold and Silver Coin, there will be plenty of employment opportunity in repairing the destroyed infrastructure of the United States from the Revolution for a couple of decades.

A thrilling Zombieland script you should sell to Hollywood. A lot of your potential audience will go for the part about replacing our money with urine-colored rocks. But I think Hollywood should turn it into a cartoon this time to fit its pre-school audience. Also, make that majority you feel so superior to outlaw Twinkies. That will get the adults who see it mad enough to give up all their rights to your 1% superheroes.

 

[Avatar4321]

Repeal of the 17th amendment allows Republicans to get Senate seats without having to deal with the pesky voters

Other than that, make voting more difficult. Cut down on polling places and hours. Make people stand on line. Demand increasingly difficult ID.

The Electoral College is now unwinable for a GOP candidate. Get Republican controlled blue states to split their electoral votes while red states remain all or nothing

Gerrymander, gerrymander, gerrymander to make sure Republicans control the House even though they get fewer votes

This is the political future of the GOP

In other words you're afraid of the system working as intended, a Republic, not a Corporate Oligarchy.

I would argue that is not how it was intended for the system to work

We should be encouraging all Americans to vote and do whatever is possible to make voting more accessable.

Sure. Encouraging people to vote will mask the real problems facing our country. That way you can trick the people into thinking they are incontrol while creating a bureaucracy that is bigger and bigger installing your values into place regardless who is voted into office.

Then you can lie and tell the people this is what they voted for when they voted for the exact opposite.

 

[Avatar4321]

The party may be doomed to fail but the demise of the US is the result of that failure. When you wake up to living in a communist system you have nobody to blame for it than you. No more individual success, no more individual decisions the government will decide for you. As if they have your best interest at heart.

I'm guessing you're too stupid to follow this logic.

We'll only be a Communist state for a few months, after that the Oathkeepers will rally more than 80% of the military against the Communist pigs.

It will be a bloodbath, but the economy will be booming shortly after when we restore Gold and Silver Coin, there will be plenty of employment opportunity in repairing the destroyed infrastructure of the United States from the Revolution for a couple of decades.

Oathkeepers?


LOL

You have a problem with people who keep their oaths?

 

[rightwinger]

We'll only be a Communist state for a few months, after that the Oathkeepers will rally more than 80% of the military against the Communist pigs.

It will be a bloodbath, but the economy will be booming shortly after when we restore Gold and Silver Coin, there will be plenty of employment opportunity in repairing the destroyed infrastructure of the United States from the Revolution for a couple of decades.

Oathkeepers?


LOL

You have a problem with people who keep their oaths?

No

I have a problem accepting them as a viable military force

 

[Avatar4321]

No. All elected officials should be elected by the people, one vote per person. We need to do away with the Electoral College.

Conservatives are always looking for an angle that will let the guy with fewer votes than the other guy still manage to win,

because that is conservatism's only hope.

Maybe because we know that it's unfair to let dead people vote or let people vote multiple times under multiple names. How dare we fight for integrity in the system!

Why is it you are so eager to corrupt the voting system? Why are you so quick to eliminate the checks on government? And destroy our Republic?

Are you really so corrupt that the idea of you being checked in your power is so offensive?

 

[Avatar4321]

Republicans have realized that their agenda no longer appeals to current voter demographics. Now, the logical solution would be to change your agenda. But the Republican solution is to keep your agenda and change the rules to allow you to either rule from a minority position or at least block the other guys agenda

Except that Republicans hold the majority of governorships and state legislatures and the house. No......they don't appeal to current voter demographics at all.

The last two elections show that the people don't want a 100year old neo-con republican in the white house.

I know McCain is old. But as the older of the two candidates who ran against the President, he still isn't 100 years old.

 

[Avatar4321]

I'll take Levin seriously in his drive to reform the country when he comes out in favor of repealing the 19th.

Why would he do that?

 

[PrometheusBound]

No. All elected officials should be elected by the people, one vote per person. We need to do away with the Electoral College.

No, we should outlaw this "winner take all" apportionment of a state's electoral votes. Again, the ruling class let hardly anyone bring that up to solve controversial elections. It is a no-brainer, which proves that anyone who limits himself to what he can link to has no mind of his own.

 

[Avatar4321]

The Bill of Rights is Amendments. So the "original intent" was to not let us have freedom of speech, gun rights, etc. No wonder those lawyers for the colonial 1% concocted their manifesto behind closed doors! If we, the people, had found out what the Founding Fodder were up to in Constitution Hall, we would have burned the place down.

Wouldn't you know that today's theocratic creeps want us to treat the Constipation as if it were the Bible, the Founding Fodder as the Twelve Apostles, and the SCROTUS as some infallible Protestant Vatican? That is heresy, but for the Greedheads, Heirheads, Bootlickers, and Baggies, it is Heaven on Earth.

Go back to whatever schools you attended and demand a refund. You really got screwed.

"What an ugly picture," said the blind man. I was a National Merit scholar; someone with your obviously inferior IQ is incapable of judging intelligence. You just proved that "Libretardianism" is the appropriate name for your brain-dead politics. To put it in the language of one of your heroines, you just refudiated yourself.

I've found that those who have to boast about how smart they are do so because they know that the merits of what they say disprove that they are.

The fact that you think anything he said refuted himself tells me that you're keeping the tradition alive.

 

[Avatar4321]

It is a lot cheaper for the Koch brothers to buy off a couple of State Senate seats than a US Senate seat.

If it were cheaper and more effective for George Soros to buy off state legislators, you would be for it. That Soros programmed you to oppose this demonstrates that your claim is false.

It's quite amazing how they seem to claim that it's easier to buy off enough state legislators to get majority support than it is to just donate directly to a Senators campaign.

Im not an expert at buying people off, but I think it's probably easier to buy a senator by paying one person, than paying alot of them. But hey those on the left are experts at buying off politicians.

 

[PrometheusBound]

Let's ask a more basic question. Should the State governments have a check on the Federal government? Because it seems there are alot of people who seem to think that no check should exist.

The vast majority of state legislators are lightweights. The people would rather vote for someone with gravitas than the pre-owned nobody those nobodies would pick for themselves. Again, this is all about having to bribe the lifelong-flunkie types in the state government rather than millions of voters.

Second, because our national senators have gravitas, they are more likely to go their own way even if they owe something to their financiers. With the nobodies in the legislatures, even if by some miracle 49% of them have something to be proud of, at least 5l % have spent their whole lives as pathetic, self-humiliating brown-noses and that's all the kingmakers need to get their bought candidate elected.

That is seriously the dumbest most unsubstantiated thing I've read in this thread so far.

Believing that the Constitution is some kind of Bible is heresy. I think you Biblebangers have been banging it against your heads too long to make you so worship secular entities. The "Founding Fathers" were not the "divinely inspired Evangelists" either. Their political science was no more advanced than the physical science of their time. And as far as your precious Amendments go, this primitive fascist document was written to discourage amending its self-defined overlordship on the people's will.

 

[rightwinger]

It is a lot cheaper for the Koch brothers to buy off a couple of State Senate seats than a US Senate seat.

If it were cheaper and more effective for George Soros to buy off state legislators, you would be for it. That Soros programmed you to oppose this demonstrates that your claim is false.

It's quite amazing how they seem to claim that it's easier to buy off enough state legislators to get majority support than it is to just donate directly to a Senators campaign.

Im not an expert at buying people off, but I think it's probably easier to buy a senator by paying one person, than paying alot of them. But hey those on the left are experts at buying off politicians.

Koch brothers tried to buy off Senate campaigns and failed. Wasted tens of millions in the process and still failed. Look at poor Karl Rove. Damned voters never do what you want them to

Buying off a State Senator is much cheaper. You don't have to buy them all, just enough to swing the vote your way.

 

[Darkwind]

how is moving away from an electoral process that more easily facilitated bribes= "moving away from the Constitution"? They were basically being "appointed" just like Bush II was appointed. Don't like it.

No, they were not. That is a talking point.

The people elect their State Legislation.

The State Legislation appoints the US Senators.

How is it that you can trust elected representatives to write laws that affect your every day life, but think that these same representatives are corrupt when it comes to appointing a US Senator?

The current way of electing Senators is twice as rife with corruption as the
original Constitutional method.

To paraphrase Henry: For every complex problem there iz a simple solution as wrong as it is appealing.

I prefer representative democracy to that dreaded popular democracy, but state houses appointing US Senators is a terrible idea pushed by small minded academics and fools

Saying it is a terrible idea is like saying it is a terrible idea to use a hammer on a nail rather than a bolt cutter.

One first must understand the purpose of the tool, and how best it can be applied. The US Senate is not there to represent the will of the people of their state in a direct manner. They are there to protect and advocate for the State. This means that if the State decides on an issue, the Senator is obligated to vote in that manner. You could look at the State as the Senators constituent.

 

[Darkwind]

The vast majority of state legislators are lightweights. The people would rather vote for someone with gravitas than the pre-owned nobody those nobodies would pick for themselves. Again, this is all about having to bribe the lifelong-flunkie types in the state government rather than millions of voters.

Second, because our national senators have gravitas, they are more likely to go their own way even if they owe something to their financiers. With the nobodies in the legislatures, even if by some miracle 49% of them have something to be proud of, at least 5l % have spent their whole lives as pathetic, self-humiliating brown-noses and that's all the kingmakers need to get their bought candidate elected.

That is seriously the dumbest most unsubstantiated thing I've read in this thread so far.

Believing that the Constitution is some kind of Bible is heresy. I think you Biblebangers have been banging it against your heads too long to make you so worship secular entities. The "Founding Fathers" were not the "divinely inspired Evangelists" either. Their political science was no more advanced than the physical science of their time. And as far as your precious Amendments go, this primitive fascist document was written to discourage amending its self-defined overlordship on the people's will.

Translation:

I don't want to have to follow the rules because I'm special.

 

[eflatminor]

All elected officials should be elected by the people, one vote per person. We need to do away with the Electoral College.

Sure, wouldn't it be just fantastic for the country if New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles decided all federal elections...

 

[eagle1462010]

I believe that is the real purpose of the drive to repeal the 17th amendment, with the restoring-states-authority-over-the-federal-government argument just the thinnest of smokescreens.

How do you square the idea that this is nothing more than an end run around the people to gain power and the idea that this is something that should be done.

My statement about the "real purpose" of the repeal movement was dually pronged.

One, it was intended to stimulate debate, which it seems to have accomplished.

Two, I believe there are those whose objectives are purely selfish. They see the short term benefit it would provide for one particular party, and since they are only concerned with power, a repeal of the 17th is merely a vehicle of convenience. These people are not be trusted in any way. Their intentions are dishonorable and counter to true conservative principles. Ironically, their support of a states' rights effort has the real purpose of achieving federal powers for themselves.

But there are those who truly do believe federal power has gone way past the safety limits and who have an honest desire to scale that back. Those voices need to be heard, and the cause articulated. I believe if you have a superior idea and can express it, you will ultimately win out in the end.

This was an opportunity for such people to come forward, put the idea on the table, and then defend it.

Why would any respectable party be supported by the nasty paranoiac fanatics who post here? What you see is what you get. "Spittle COMMNISS!!! sputter SOACHLESS!!! drool LIBTARD!!!

This Libretardian posting frenzy indicates that they are so excited about this opportunity to impose their tyranny over the majority that their eyeballs pop out. Salivating over the possibilities in this scam, they bluster and bloviate and pop out Cracker Jack pixels. Since such dumb jock bullies and their anal-retentive yes men can only succeed through intimidation, they screech out scare stories on how the 17th Amendment caused EVERY NATIONAL DISASTER OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY!!! "Run for your lives! Only absolute rule by the 1% can save us from the Zombieland mob!"

I notice that they have rolled away from their original spin that elected senators are beholden to the national parties, those invisible cabals of socialists or crony capitalists, and not loyal to the senators' own states. As anyone not deafened by these Bootlickers' rhetoric can point out, our senators are no such strawmen. An Iowa senator, for example, will support farmers over the objections of the city snobs in the national party, whom, the Libretardians warn us, he really represents. When this lie didn't fly, the Ayn Randies came up with the angle of glorifying the dumb nobodies in the state legislatures, who, with their secret wisdom, know what their states need (more payoffs to the state legislators?) as opposed to the mooching fool voters who don't know what is best for them. The exception to that would be Kentucky, where the enlightened voters (probably stoned from sniffing the Derby winner's doped horse manure) elected the Libretardian pope, Paul II.

[/QUOTE]

First off, Libertarian Frenzy imposing Tyranny. I would like to remind you that this so called Tyranny was the law of the land until Wilson in 1914. So by your own comments are you stating that the United States up to that date lived in Tyranny?

Then you have the nerve to call our believes a Scam...............So in that light you must believe the Founding Fathers who wrote this up in the beginning were nothing more than a bunch of Tyrants.................................

They did this so the State Legislatures would have a direct input and voice in the Federal Gov't. These individuals are elected by the citizens of their respective state, so the posts that say those in favor of repeal are taking away their vote is utter BS.

Secondly those serving in the States are more privy to the finer details of laws in Congress because it is their job to represent the public and protect the interest of the people of their state. So on page 1000 of ACA it costs the State Budget 500 Million they would be pushing their Senator to say something about it because it could directly impact the States Economic Future. Someone on the couch who doesn't stay informed on the bill and listens to CNN about how Great this new law is going to be is probably not going to see the finer details on page 1000 that could make his taxes go up.

Now, again the Senator elected is supposed to do this as well, but he's virtually untouchable for 6 years even if he goes against the wishes of the State Gov't. Under the old system they could hold his feet to the fire to make sure he votes to opinion and belief of the State. Now the Senator can appease his Special Interests, go on the take and ignore his own State Gov't. Which is EXACTLY WHY THE FOUNDERS DID THIS.

This allowed the States to watch over their own Senator and hold him accountable for their actions and votes.

 

[NYcarbineer]

All elected officials should be elected by the people, one vote per person. We need to do away with the Electoral College.

Sure, wouldn't it be just fantastic for the country if New York City, Chicago and Los Angeles decided all federal elections...

A rural voter deserves no more power than an urban voter.