Liberals: The "RICH" keep more of there wealth, they are given nothing

[Uncensored2008]

Where do you get over the air connections? Who provided oversight to keep the internet from becoming a commercial enterprise?

Who kept water from being wet?

The internet is a commercial enterprise.

 

[Mr Liberty]

The govt does nothing without wealth
the threads intent and its purpose is simple
the rich got richer because GWB allowed them to keep more of the wealth they earned. As bad as Obama wants to get back into there pocket the same level Clinton was, the people said hell no
no-one is giving me a damn thing
I paid into the IRS about 15,000
when we where using Clinton's tax rate I was giving in about 18,000
I kept 3,000 more per year
I earned it
GWB allwed me to keep it
Thank you President Bush

I want you to keep the whole $18000. It was immoral for them to take any of it. This mess we are in is not the fault of any one president. Now I'm afraid the party is over. The question is what kind of government will emerge after the chaos?

 

[JRK]

The govt does nothing without wealth
the threads intent and its purpose is simple
the rich got richer because GWB allowed them to keep more of the wealth they earned. As bad as Obama wants to get back into there pocket the same level Clinton was, the people said hell no
no-one is giving me a damn thing
I paid into the IRS about 15,000
when we where using Clinton's tax rate I was giving in about 18,000
I kept 3,000 more per year
I earned it
GWB allwed me to keep it
Thank you President Bush

I want you to keep the whole $18000. It was immoral for them to take any of it. This mess we are in is not the fault of any one president. Now I'm afraid the party is over. The question is what kind of government will emerge after the chaos?

who said anything about anyone keeping all of that?
Is this where we have gotten to in this country?
we cannot discuss anything?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Without the support structure provided by our society, you would be scrounging the gutters looking for roadkill.

Without our structure as a society, you would not be able to get low-cost safe food on a dependable basis

I just bought 10 lbs of potatoes from Peru.

Without a transportation and food infrastructure....how would I pay to get them to me?

Where did the money come from to build this infrastructure?

That infrastructure was not built by the millionaires

But they paid for it.

 

[JRK]

Where did the money come from to build this infrastructure?

That infrastructure was not built by the millionaires

But they paid for it.

There you go again right winger. This is where the left has lost sight of what it is this is all about.
Wealth, earned by those who work for a living has been collected by the US Govt. thence with that wealth they give it to those who need it, and some who may need it, but do not deserve it. Some of it was used to purchase GM for the UAW. Some of it was used to pay the salary of the very same teachers in Wisconsin that went nuts here recently.
Some of that wealth was used to resurface a hi-way that may have delivered those potatoes your talking about
what is the one thing all of these items have in common?

 

[kiwiman127]

That infrastructure was not built by the millionaires

But they paid for it.

There you go again right winger. This is where the left has lost sight of what it is this is all about.
Wealth, earned by those who work for a living has been collected by the US Govt. thence with that wealth they give it to those who need it, and some who may need it, but do not deserve it. Some of it was used to purchase GM for the UAW. Some of it was used to pay the salary of the very same teachers in Wisconsin that went nuts here recently.
Some of that wealth was used to resurface a hi-way that may have delivered those potatoes your talking about
what is the one thing all of these items have in common?

This thread is about a class warfare on the working middle class. But for the purpose of diversion, the dialog has taken the spotlight off the main purpose of this thread.
I think it's telling that I posted factual numbers about how the wages of working Americans has been flat for over thirty years despite a 86% increase in worker productivity and a 90% growth of our economy. None of the worshipers of the wealthy/Corporate America will touch this. The reason is probably that those who they are hell bent in defending those who held down wages and kept the working middle class from growing with the economy. And by not rewarding the working class for their contribution to the growth of the economy by their high productivity, wealthy/Corporate America waged class warfare. And thus the purpose of this thread.
But this same group of defenders of the Big Money, who are constantly screaming about a non-existent class warfare on the wealthy.

 

[Gadawg73]

Employers moochers? Explain that one. How would anyone have ANY $$$ WITHOUT EMPLOYERS?

You own a business in a high cost of living area. Based on what you are paying, no employees can afford to work for you because they can't afford rent, food, electricity and transportation in the area in which you operate your business.
The government steps in and because of the low salary, they give that employee money for rent, food and electricity.
The employer gets to continue paying substandard salaries and making more profit while the taxpayer makes up the difference

Moocher

Let me explain how it works for me and all employers rwinger.
You make the absurd assumption that me, the employer, sets the wages. That is rididulous.
Respectfully, let me explain how it has always worked in my businesses for 30 years.
First, the market always sets the wage. There is no business anywhere that can survive setting their own wages. The market of what business you are in sets the wage.
One of my businesses is high skill. The market, what my employees can do for me, and most importantly, MY COMPETITORS AS EVERYONE IS FREE TO WALK, so their wage is set when I hire. If I do not have a competitive wage and benefits, THEY GO TO ANOTHER BUSINESS in my market.
Don't like YOUR wage? Shop your skills and get something better. The higher the skill market the more $$$ you make. NO skills, plenty of work for less $$$.
Now let us say you get a job in my other business at $12 an hour to start. Well, guess what? How much time, resources and cash did I have to lay out, you do know that I have to spend LOTS of $$$ BEFORE I make a penny, to hire JUST ONE employee?
Now one would think with a shit load of unemployed it would be easier to hire. NO NO NO. It is so much HARDER. Why you ask? Because of the MASSIVE TURNOVER in a market where there is high unemployment. One would think it wouldbethe opposite but the transition to a BETTER job is greater in times like this.
So all of a sudden that $12 an hour job is $13 an hour because of all of the time I had to spend finding JUST ONE employee that could come to work that is reliable, will be on time,is not on drugs, does not have personal problems and has a valid record. Now add in my social security 8% and now that jog is at $14 an hour. Add in the training I have to do toget this employee up to speed and the starting rate, since they are so slow tobegin with and time is $$$, that $12 job is now up to almost $15 an hour.
And when they quit in a few months as this market is so unpredictable I am back to sqyare one.
The EMPLOYEE and the market control what wage they make. The employer has to pay what the market demands.
If a worker is lazy and has no job skills that is their fault.
Your scenario above depends ON GOVERNMENT. Take government out of the equation and wages will go up some because citizens will have more $$ and less taxes.
NO wage is ever based on "based on what you are paying" That is complete BS.
I PAY WHAT I AM FORCED TO PAY based on market conditions. Been that way for 30 years.

 

[rightwinger]

Employers moochers? Explain that one. How would anyone have ANY $$$ WITHOUT EMPLOYERS?

You own a business in a high cost of living area. Based on what you are paying, no employees can afford to work for you because they can't afford rent, food, electricity and transportation in the area in which you operate your business.
The government steps in and because of the low salary, they give that employee money for rent, food and electricity.
The employer gets to continue paying substandard salaries and making more profit while the taxpayer makes up the difference

Moocher

Let me explain how it works for me and all employers rwinger.
You make the absurd assumption that me, the employer, sets the wages. That is rididulous.
Respectfully, let me explain how it has always worked in my businesses for 30 years.
First, the market always sets the wage. There is no business anywhere that can survive setting their own wages. The market of what business you are in sets the wage.
One of my businesses is high skill. The market, what my employees can do for me, and most importantly, MY COMPETITORS AS EVERYONE IS FREE TO WALK, so their wage is set when I hire. If I do not have a competitive wage and benefits, THEY GO TO ANOTHER BUSINESS in my market.
Don't like YOUR wage? Shop your skills and get something better. The higher the skill market the more $$$ you make. NO skills, plenty of work for less $$$.
Now let us say you get a job in my other business at $12 an hour to start. Well, guess what? How much time, resources and cash did I have to lay out, you do know that I have to spend LOTS of $$$ BEFORE I make a penny, to hire JUST ONE employee?
Now one would think with a shit load of unemployed it would be easier to hire. NO NO NO. It is so much HARDER. Why you ask? Because of the MASSIVE TURNOVER in a market where there is high unemployment. One would think it wouldbethe opposite but the transition to a BETTER job is greater in times like this.
So all of a sudden that $12 an hour job is $13 an hour because of all of the time I had to spend finding JUST ONE employee that could come to work that is reliable, will be on time,is not on drugs, does not have personal problems and has a valid record. Now add in my social security 8% and now that jog is at $14 an hour. Add in the training I have to do toget this employee up to speed and the starting rate, since they are so slow tobegin with and time is $$$, that $12 job is now up to almost $15 an hour.
And when they quit in a few months as this market is so unpredictable I am back to sqyare one.
The EMPLOYEE and the market control what wage they make. The employer has to pay what the market demands.
If a worker is lazy and has no job skills that is their fault.
Your scenario above depends ON GOVERNMENT. Take government out of the equation and wages will go up some because citizens will have more $$ and less taxes.
NO wage is ever based on "based on what you are paying" That is complete BS.
I PAY WHAT I AM FORCED TO PAY based on market conditions. Been that way for 30 years.

The Government subsidizing the labor market allows employers to keep wages artificially low. When the government picks up the tab for living costs the market does not have to compensate.

 

[Gadawg73]

You own a business in a high cost of living area. Based on what you are paying, no employees can afford to work for you because they can't afford rent, food, electricity and transportation in the area in which you operate your business.
The government steps in and because of the low salary, they give that employee money for rent, food and electricity.
The employer gets to continue paying substandard salaries and making more profit while the taxpayer makes up the difference

Moocher

Let me explain how it works for me and all employers rwinger.
You make the absurd assumption that me, the employer, sets the wages. That is rididulous.
Respectfully, let me explain how it has always worked in my businesses for 30 years.
First, the market always sets the wage. There is no business anywhere that can survive setting their own wages. The market of what business you are in sets the wage.
One of my businesses is high skill. The market, what my employees can do for me, and most importantly, MY COMPETITORS AS EVERYONE IS FREE TO WALK, so their wage is set when I hire. If I do not have a competitive wage and benefits, THEY GO TO ANOTHER BUSINESS in my market.
Don't like YOUR wage? Shop your skills and get something better. The higher the skill market the more $$$ you make. NO skills, plenty of work for less $$$.
Now let us say you get a job in my other business at $12 an hour to start. Well, guess what? How much time, resources and cash did I have to lay out, you do know that I have to spend LOTS of $$$ BEFORE I make a penny, to hire JUST ONE employee?
Now one would think with a shit load of unemployed it would be easier to hire. NO NO NO. It is so much HARDER. Why you ask? Because of the MASSIVE TURNOVER in a market where there is high unemployment. One would think it wouldbethe opposite but the transition to a BETTER job is greater in times like this.
So all of a sudden that $12 an hour job is $13 an hour because of all of the time I had to spend finding JUST ONE employee that could come to work that is reliable, will be on time,is not on drugs, does not have personal problems and has a valid record. Now add in my social security 8% and now that jog is at $14 an hour. Add in the training I have to do toget this employee up to speed and the starting rate, since they are so slow tobegin with and time is $$$, that $12 job is now up to almost $15 an hour.
And when they quit in a few months as this market is so unpredictable I am back to sqyare one.
The EMPLOYEE and the market control what wage they make. The employer has to pay what the market demands.
If a worker is lazy and has no job skills that is their fault.
Your scenario above depends ON GOVERNMENT. Take government out of the equation and wages will go up some because citizens will have more $$ and less taxes.
NO wage is ever based on "based on what you are paying" That is complete BS.
I PAY WHAT I AM FORCED TO PAY based on market conditions. Been that way for 30 years.

The Government subsidizing the labor market allows employers to keep wages artificially low. When the government picks up the tab for living costs the market does not have to compensate.

What % of the labor market does government subsidize?
What is the skill level of that market? The lowest??
Of course so what do you do if you are a worker? OBTAIN BETTER SKILLS.
Get govenrment out of that and what did I state would happen is incorrect?
GOVERNMENT IS PART OF THE DAMN PROBLEM.
Tell me how government subisidizes any skilled market.
It has never and will never happen.
No one forces any employee TO STAY AT ANY JOB FOR ANY WAGE.
That is the problem we have. Unskilled, lazy workers that refuse to educate themselves TO WHAT THE MARKET DEMANDS is the problem in America. Unions, tenure and government are all bad for the American worker. They all encourage an unskilled worker BEING incapable of adapting to a changing labor market.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I think it was Earl Weaver who once said, the most important lessons you learn in life are the ones you learn after you know it all.

i recommend you look up marginal tax rates and taxable income.

Murray Rothbard said that "the idea that government spending and higher taxes can stimulate an economy rests on the precept that government knows better how to spend money than do those who produce it in the first place."

Leftism is simply one absurdity compounding another.

Our taxes as a percent of GDP are as low as they were 60 years ago. Is it stimulating the economy?

Our total federal taxes, 2011 estimate, are at about 14.4% of GDP. They averaged around 18% under Reagan, around 19% under Clinton.

If we can prosper with taxes at 18% of GDP, and all we get is a stagnant economy with massive deficits at 14%,

well, can you figure it out???

 

[Malcom X]

The rich keep getting richer, and the poor poorer.

Rather than taxation, regulation, and subsidation... perhaps we should try some more effective means to reach prosperity: Citizen Socialization of Industry, Money based on Gold and Silver, Formation of Voluntary Cooperatives.

Well maybe the poor should get off their lazy asses and work. Or if they are "under-educated" then pick up a book and learn something, then go get a job.

I'm tired of hearing that the poor are getting "poorer", even if that is true how is it any way anyone else's fault and not their own? As if tax dollars are going to ever help people out of being "poor".

Your contempt of the disadvantaged is evident. You do not understand the plight of the unemployed, the homeless, the worker who recieves next to nothing for the backbreaking labor he pours into a business only to see his boss, sitting in a chair while he toils in his own sweat, giving his body and his time, his entire life to recieve only crumbs from the master's table.

Picking on the downtrodden is weak and pathetic. But we outnumber you, and we are armed.

 

[Malcom X]

It's spelled 'Malcolm'.

That's already been pointed out to me. It's a purposeful misspelling.

Hey, you gotta give it a shot, right? I mean what do you have to lose at this point since you already didn't know how to spell his name...

You know what, I'm just going to change it since everyone keeps commenting on it.

Some people are named Malcom, not Malcolm... myself included... but I can see this will be an issue.

 

[Malcom X]

The rich keep getting richer, and the poor poorer.

Nope.

The rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting richer.

The poor aren't as rich as the rich, so you throw a tantrum like the spoiled child you are.

You are blind if you have not seen the terrible consequences of poverty in this country.

 

[Malcom X]

Malcom if the rich are getting richer its not because the govt is taking there wealth. To make money it helps 99% to have it to start with
But why is it anyone cares about that? why the class war fare?
I have spent the last 20 years of my life working all over this country to make a living. I have worked on 40 different projects. And if the good lord will give me 15 more healthy years I will have some cash put back
Malcom you can do the same thing
I pick the right wife I am there now

Your wanting a even distribution of wealth system
Thats fine
with respect move to China

With all due respect, China is less Communist than America at this point.

I don't want an even distribution of wealth, nor do I want class wafare. It is not a "class war" for the poor and working-class to stand up for themselves, to strive for prosperity, to take control of their own economic future.

That's not class warfare, that's class unity.

You are confused, china has communist gov't. We still are a republic with a democraticlly elected gov't. Although there are people in this country that want to tear that down like obamaturd, clinton, reid, pelosi, ayers and the ever lovable moore, idiots.

Their ruling party calls themselves communists, but you would have to be a political ignoramus to think China operates under the tenants of Communism.

 

[Mr Liberty]

The govt does nothing without wealth
the threads intent and its purpose is simple
the rich got richer because GWB allowed them to keep more of the wealth they earned. As bad as Obama wants to get back into there pocket the same level Clinton was, the people said hell no
no-one is giving me a damn thing
I paid into the IRS about 15,000
when we where using Clinton's tax rate I was giving in about 18,000
I kept 3,000 more per year
I earned it
GWB allwed me to keep it
Thank you President Bush

I want you to keep the whole $18000. It was immoral for them to take any of it. This mess we are in is not the fault of any one president. Now I'm afraid the party is over. The question is what kind of government will emerge after the chaos?

who said anything about anyone keeping all of that?
Is this where we have gotten to in this country?
we cannot discuss anything?

I said I wanted you to keep all of it. They got Americans to accept taxes on their income by playing the same class warfare song they are playing now. "We are only taxing the rich." In 1913 If you made $4000 dollars or less you did not have to file a return. $4000 is $89,417.78 in 2011 dollars. They don't raise the tax code with inflation. They spend more than we give them, both republican and democrats, which creates more inflation. So unless you make more than $89,417.78, I say again I want you and everyone else to keep it all.
They always want us to go after the rich. How is it less immoral to take their property, than it is to take yours? Why do we trust the government to use your money wisely? I don't. Both parties are guilty of over spending.
We must stop. We cannot continue. The Europeans experimented with socialism to a greater extent than we have. They have all had to reduce spending. Greece, Ireland and Portugal have had to be bailed out. There is no one to bail us out. We are far too large to bail out. We are the worlds largest economy. It simply can't be done.
If our currency fails, causing the U.S. economy to continue to contract, the results will be a severe global depression.
The social programs should never been created. they were made possible by the over taxation of the middle class. Made possible through intentional inflation and a progressive tax code, whose stated purpose was taxing the rich. The answer to our problems is not more class warfare. The answer is to cut and cut deeply.
Like it or not we the people are responsible for the actions of this government. We allowed the spending. We must pay the price. Either cut and pay what we owe or go bankrupt.

 

[Gadawg73]

I see very good arguments on BOTH sides of the issue. I do not agree with most of them but am always willing to look at all of the opinions out there.
As someone that owns businesses I have to keep an open mind.

 

[JRK]

I see very good arguments on BOTH sides of the issue. I do not agree with most of them but am always willing to look at all of the opinions out there.
As someone that owns businesses I have to keep an open mind.

Is you business profitable?
Do you have capital gains each year?
If you had 10% more each year what would you do with it?

When our talking taxes and wealth these are the items in debate
Taxes are paid by a certain group in this country. Not all people pay taxes

 

[editec]

Oh! the poor little rich people.

They're so put upon by the nation that gave them everything they have and protects it for them, too.

Let's all collectively weap crocidile tears in sympathy for those poor poor billionaires, shall we?

 

[Gadawg73]

I see very good arguments on BOTH sides of the issue. I do not agree with most of them but am always willing to look at all of the opinions out there.
As someone that owns businesses I have to keep an open mind.

Is you business profitable?
Do you have capital gains each year?
If you had 10% more each year what would you do with it?

When our talking taxes and wealth these are the items in debate
Taxes are paid by a certain group in this country. Not all people pay taxes

Capital gains is when you sell a capital item and there is a gain. No one is selling much of anything these days for any gain because the economy is so bad. We are all holding.
One of my businesses is investment and there have not been any gains in 3 years. You buy low and sell high.
My other businesses show profits and I pay income taxes on those.
I am 56. When I do sell for gain out of my investment company MY FAT ASS IS RETIRING.
Lower the capital gains tax, or better yet eliminate it, and you would see the biggest economic boom ever here.

 

[Gadawg73]

Oh! the poor little rich people.

They're so put upon by the nation that gave them everything they have and protects it for them, too.

Let's all collectively weap crocidile tears in sympathy for those poor poor billionaires, shall we?

Yeah those evil rich. They bust their ass for 40 years working 70 hours a week, risking every penny they have, employing others, always paying their taxes, drive old cars while their neighbors drive brand new cars, send their kids to the university and pay for it themselves while their neighbors spend their $$ on retirement homes and get state $$ for their kids to go to school, invest their capital in their local banks for the community to have somewhere to borrow $$, support and fund the local youth rec leagues for 20 years, donate time and $$ to the arts in the community, fund the local women's shelter, help build the local animal shelter and build homes for Habitat for Humanity.
Just to name a few.
Those evil, foul wealthy people. How DARE they work twice as hard as the next guy and have more than him. WHAT NERVE!