lighter skinned blacks are more intelligent than darker skinned blacks.

[IanC]

as I have said so many times before; skin colour is determined by race, not race is determined by skin colour.

And that premise is as flawed as anything I've ever heard! Skin color is determined by environmental influence to various populations over at least a ten thousand year period, just as other human variations are. To me, mankind's physical variations, including skin color, are not indicators of racial variance. It is a matter of adaptation to various environs by the same species; or, if you will, race... the human race!

how do we distinguish whether a varialble is cause or effect? we measure which relationship is stronger. eg does SES (socioeconomic status) cause higher IQ or does IQ cause higher SES? we measure the correlation in both directions and find that IQ has greater predictive power than SES therefore it is much more likely that intelligence is the cause rather than SES..

More BS! If your premise were true, the members of MENSA would hold all the wealth in the world. No, there is something else. I suspect that aggression and utter ruthlessness are keys to acquiring individual wealth. These kind of people usually employ people with high IQs. The leaders of most Asian countries are probably not the brightest, but the most aggressive and assertive. The bright Asians have only recently began to make their presence known to the world thanks to the opportunities opened up by the Civil Rights Era in the West!

Hill's theory is a variant of what is known as “the sociologist’s fallacy” (Jensen, 1998) which consists of treating socio-economic and family variables as causes of the association between race and IQ and partialing them out, when these variables are correlates and effects rather than causes of the difference.

I don't see a reference to skin color here so, I'Il just ignore this as gobblygook!

There is something Lynn (2002b) doesn’t seem to have noticed however. The fact that the relationship between skin color and IQ has fallen after the inclusion of education and other variables is exactly what the genetic hypothesis would have predicted. It is not the skin color per se that drives the IQ level, but here the degree of ancestry which is tied to IQ. Controlling for education is like controlling for the variables that were initially causing education levels to vary. In other words, the explanatory variables such as IQ. That the influence of racial admixture diminished after the inclusion of SES is, perhaps counterintuitively, consistent with a genetic hypothesis. As I explained elsewhere, matching for SES does not make any sense. Indeed, if the link between skin color and IQ still remains, it would mean that skin color is linked to IQ when the degree of ancestry has been controlled. In this case, something that is tied to skin color but not to the degree of ancestry is causing IQ to vary....

The researchers who came up with this BS either have tunnel vision or are infected with the virus called "groupthink." Sub-Saharan African immigrants are now the most educated people in Britain as well as the United States! And, from close observation and study, I can tell you that there is very little European admixture among them.

I appreciate that you are at least attempting to figure things out logically.

whites and asians are genetic subpopulations that broke away from africa and became distinct races because of evolutionary forces dictated by environment and chance. the collective changes in genotypes are what defines race in the biological sense rather than the political sense. the physical expression of skin colour (phenotype) is directly controlled by the genetic inheritance of the individual. therefore I will repeat; skin colour is determined by racial makeup, not the other way around.

next you disagree that intelligence is an important factor simply because there are other factors. mensa qualified individuals do hold a large part of the world's wealth (Bill Gates) and professions like medical doctors have a very high IQ level and earn large salaries and accumulate a lot of wealth. in many countries political acumen is more important than individual endeavour but in western countries there is much more opportunity to rise through clever choices therefore there is stratification by intelligence.

explaining why intelligence is a more important factor than SES, and how the process works is beyond the scope of this message board. I will point out an example though. the best players in the NBA are not necessarily the tallest but there are very few great players that are less than six feet tall.

 

[IanC]

BS. I have a cousin, who is mulatto. Who, like President Obama is half-white and half-black, and who identifies as "black", although she could easily pass for white, and has been mistaken for white in the past.
And quite often race has been determined "in spite of" or contrary to skin color (i.e. "the one drop rule")

I am not particularly interested in the 'one drop rule'. I am only interested in the differences in the races, and what those differences cause in the social success of different groups.

of course there are cultural aspects involved as well but as far as I can see black culture is dysfunctional in many areas and leads to even more disparity.

Your mission here has become clearer. Your use of an Asian avatar belies your true identity. However I see you now for who and what you really are!

Why are you so interested in differences between the "races?" Since your obsession is with black "dysfunction," why not pursue an analysis that details how pervasive it really is in black communities. Objectivity, though, has to be included in any empirical undertaking; otherwise, your work would be tainted by errors in judgement posited by others.

To be fair, you must separate the good from the bad. You'll find that most Blacks are hard working, God fearing Americans with aspirations hopes and dreams just like you have.
You're going to find that, while you have been feverishly trying to make a universal nexus between Blacks and dysfunction, most have been silently rising to meet the challenges of raising a family, wed or not, and making a living! God and the Bible are central themes in any Black community. A relatively few bad apples are the ones who make the evening news and generate bad statistics.

I arrived at the topic of black dysfunction via an interest in education. blacks, on average, do poorly at school because of a lower level of intelligence, and are further compromised by a culture that does not value education and hard work as much as other cultures. racism is still a small factor but the overwhelming reason for disparity in outcomes is lack in ability and self sabotage.

the last US census I looked at carefully showed that over 40% of blacks were using govt social assistance programs and less than 20% of whites were. you may be right that a majority of blacks are trying to be successful but they are not succeeding at a rate close to other groups.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Q. Who is the new Jeopardy Teen Champion?


A. Leonard Cooper; a Black American Teenager whose IQ is at least two standard deviations higher than the dozen or so white, racist assholes who posted on this thread.

 

[Chet]

BS! Both of my siblings are far darker skinned then myself and now? We've got the same parents, read the same books, went to the same schools. no difference in IQ. completely BS - before posting something like that, I would like to see the source you got that from (probably a bunch of scientists sitting in a bar, drunk as f**k). it is absolutely not possible to generalize in these cases. everybody who thinks that it is possible to lump together all different blacks from all over the world is WRONG and everyone believing this is dumb. I'm sorry.

by the way: I am about to get my PhD. My brother and my sister are attending the same university.

 

[IanC]

Q. Who is the new Jeopardy Teen Champion?


A. Leonard Cooper; a Black American Teenager whose IQ is at least two standard deviations higher than the dozen or so white, racist assholes who posted on this thread.

I fail to see how individual exceptions change the general rule that has been built from literally millions of subjects. are you saying that you dont believe that blacks are roughly one standard deviation lower on tests of mental ability in the US? there are only a few thousand blacks per year that manage to get 1500+ SAT scores necessary for NAMs to get into elite universities. while SAT, ACT, etc are not perfect IQ tests for the general population, they are very good when looking at the restricted range of those putting effort into getting accepted by good schools.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Q. Who is the new Jeopardy Teen Champion?


A. Leonard Cooper; a Black American Teenager whose IQ is at least two standard deviations higher than the dozen or so white, racist assholes who posted on this thread.

I fail to see how individual exceptions change the general rule that has been built from literally millions of subjects. are you saying that you dont believe that blacks are roughly one standard deviation lower on tests of mental ability in the US? there are only a few thousand blacks per year that manage to get 1500+ SAT scores necessary for NAMs to get into elite universities. while SAT, ACT, etc are not perfect IQ tests for the general population, they are very good when looking at the restricted range of those putting effort into getting accepted by good schools.

Would you like to debate the reliability and validity of IQ tests in general?

I didn't suggest anything; I stated most of the racists who post on this thread (this message board) are dumber by degrees than this young man who won the Jeopardy Teen Tournament.

The MMPI might be a better tool for deciding who should get into "elite universities"; character matters.

 

[IanC]

BS! Both of my siblings are far darker skinned then myself and now? We've got the same parents, read the same books, went to the same schools. no difference in IQ. completely BS - before posting something like that, I would like to see the source you got that from (probably a bunch of scientists sitting in a bar, drunk as f**k). it is absolutely not possible to generalize in these cases. everybody who thinks that it is possible to lump together all different blacks from all over the world is WRONG and everyone believing this is dumb. I'm sorry.

by the way: I am about to get my PhD. My brother and my sister are attending the same university.

it never ceases to amaze me that people are willing to believe medical articles with shady methodologies and small sizes but then turn around and reject studies on race even though they often use very large numbers of subjects and straight forward statistics.

PS- perhaps if the majority of blacks were all as outstanding as the black posters here claim to be, then we wouldnt be having this discussion. I find it odd that so many students getting post graduate degrees seem to have not only the time to waste on this board, but the inclination!

 

[JQPublic1]

That's your rebuttal? Pretty weak.

the truth is NEVER weak! Answer the question or shut up!

I don't answer questions that fucking stupid.

To you, anything you can't comprehend is stupid.
Perhaps I should dumb down my posts so you can understand them.

 

[IanC]

Q. Who is the new Jeopardy Teen Champion?


A. Leonard Cooper; a Black American Teenager whose IQ is at least two standard deviations higher than the dozen or so white, racist assholes who posted on this thread.

I fail to see how individual exceptions change the general rule that has been built from literally millions of subjects. are you saying that you dont believe that blacks are roughly one standard deviation lower on tests of mental ability in the US? there are only a few thousand blacks per year that manage to get 1500+ SAT scores necessary for NAMs to get into elite universities. while SAT, ACT, etc are not perfect IQ tests for the general population, they are very good when looking at the restricted range of those putting effort into getting accepted by good schools.

Would you like to debate the reliability and validity of IQ tests in general?

I didn't suggest anything; I stated most of the racists who post on this thread (this message board) are dumber by degrees than this young man who won the Jeopardy Teen Tournament.

The MMPI might be a better tool for deciding who should get into "elite universities"; character matters.

perhaps, but smart people can often defeat personality tests but mental tests cannot be faked.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I fail to see how individual exceptions change the general rule that has been built from literally millions of subjects. are you saying that you dont believe that blacks are roughly one standard deviation lower on tests of mental ability in the US? there are only a few thousand blacks per year that manage to get 1500+ SAT scores necessary for NAMs to get into elite universities. while SAT, ACT, etc are not perfect IQ tests for the general population, they are very good when looking at the restricted range of those putting effort into getting accepted by good schools.

Would you like to debate the reliability and validity of IQ tests in general?.
I didn't suggest anything; I stated most of the racists who post on this thread (this message board) are dumber by degrees than this young man who won the Jeopardy Teen Tournament.

The MMPI might be a better tool for deciding who should get into "elite universities"; character matters.

perhaps, but smart people can often defeat personality tests but mental tests cannot be faked.

Some personality tests, the MMPI with lie schedules and the number of questions make it less likely. The MMPI has been given to more individuals than any other test (at least it had been so when I was in Grad School, 1972) and its reliability and validity has been evaluated over decades. The "Smart People" who can 'fake' the MMPI are likely sociopaths (aka, today as personality disordered).

 

[IanC]

Would you like to debate the reliability and validity of IQ tests in general?.
I didn't suggest anything; I stated most of the racists who post on this thread (this message board) are dumber by degrees than this young man who won the Jeopardy Teen Tournament.

The MMPI might be a better tool for deciding who should get into "elite universities"; character matters.

perhaps, but smart people can often defeat personality tests but mental tests cannot be faked.

Some personality tests, the MMPI with lie schedules and the number of questions make it less likely. The MMPI has been given to more individuals than any other test (at least it had been so when I was in Grad School, 1972) and its reliability and validity has been evaluated over decades. The "Smart People" who can 'fake' the MMPI are likely sociopaths (aka, today as personality disordered).

so what is the 'right' personality? are smart people more or less likely to have 'it'?

almost all positive social traits are positively correlated to intelligence, most negative social traits are found more often in lower intelligence individuals.

 

[Wry Catcher]

perhaps, but smart people can often defeat personality tests but mental tests cannot be faked.

Some personality tests, the MMPI with lie schedules and the number of questions make it less likely. The MMPI has been given to more individuals than any other test (at least it had been so when I was in Grad School, 1972) and its reliability and validity has been evaluated over decades. The "Smart People" who can 'fake' the MMPI are likely sociopaths (aka, today as personality disordered).

so what is the 'right' personality? are smart people more or less likely to have 'it'?

There is no "right' personality; there are deviant ones as denoted in the DSM series.

almost all positive social traits are positively correlated to intelligence, most negative social traits are found more often in lower intelligence individuals.

Is this your opinion or do you have evidence to support such a theory? As one who worked for, with and supervised/managed those with diverse levels of educaton, diverse personality traits and diverse skills (in terms of abilities, talents, use of language and ability to solve problems) I discerned no commonality of social traits - negative or positive - among staff.

 

[IanC]

Some personality tests, the MMPI with lie schedules and the number of questions make it less likely. The MMPI has been given to more individuals than any other test (at least it had been so when I was in Grad School, 1972) and its reliability and validity has been evaluated over decades. The "Smart People" who can 'fake' the MMPI are likely sociopaths (aka, today as personality disordered).

so what is the 'right' personality? are smart people more or less likely to have 'it'?

There is no "right' personality; there are deviant ones as denoted in the DSM series.

almost all positive social traits are positively correlated to intelligence, most negative social traits are found more often in lower intelligence individuals.

Is this your opinion or do you have evidence to support such a theory? As one who worked for, with and supervised/managed those with diverse levels of educaton, diverse personality traits and diverse skills (in terms of abilities, talents, use of language and ability to solve problems) I discerned no commonality of social traits - negative or positive - among staff.

we may be using different definitions for the word trait. I am looking at behavioral traits rather than personality traits. long term family cohesion rather than gregariousness for example.

 

[JQPublic1]

To be fair, you must separate the good from the bad. You'll find that most Blacks are hard working, God fearing Americans with aspirations hopes and dreams just like you have.
You're going to find that, while you have been feverishly trying to make a universal nexus between Blacks and dysfunction, most have been silently rising to meet the challenges of raising a family, wed or not, and making a living! God and the Bible are central themes in any Black community. A relatively few bad apples are the ones who make the evening news and generate bad statistics.

They just seem to have a disproportionate amount of "bad apples".

Your error is mixing the good with the bad and coming up with an idiotic conclusion that ALL are responsible for the actions of a relatively few! STFU!

 

[KR811]

Q. Who is the new Jeopardy Teen Champion?


A. Leonard Cooper; a Black American Teenager whose IQ is at least two standard deviations higher than the dozen or so white, racist assholes who posted on this thread.

I fail to see how individual exceptions change the general rule that has been built from literally millions of subjects. are you saying that you dont believe that blacks are roughly one standard deviation lower on tests of mental ability in the US? there are only a few thousand blacks per year that manage to get 1500+ SAT scores necessary for NAMs to get into elite universities. while SAT, ACT, etc are not perfect IQ tests for the general population, they are very good when looking at the restricted range of those putting effort into getting accepted by good schools.

Other races do the same exact thing all the time. This is also accompanied by claiming the achievements of others who happen to be the same race, as if they were personally involved. Claiming "heritage" from anything outside of your family tree is freaking. ridiculous. I'm sick of this attitude of from all races and needs to stop.

 

[S.J.]

the truth is NEVER weak! Answer the question or shut up!

I don't answer questions that fucking stupid.

To you, anything you can't comprehend is stupid.
Perhaps I should dumb down my posts so you can understand them.

Well, if anybody can dumb something down, it would by you. All you have to do is be yourself, stupid.

 

[JQPublic1]

I appreciate that you are at least attempting to figure things out logically.

Sorry I cannot say the same about you!

whites and asians are genetic subpopulations that broke away from africa and became distinct races because of evolutionary forces dictated by environment and chance. the collective changes in genotypes are what defines race in the biological sense rather than the political sense.

I disagree! Your wishful thinking does not lend credence to the notion of "distinct human races."The very fact that all human groups can mate and have offspring is quite damaging to your ridiculous illusion. Those evolutionary forces you mention so casually have been punctuated for thousands of years by genetic exchanges between different groups when they encountered one another. Those chance encounters have been far more instrumental in keeping all humans human. Any superficial physical adaptations to an environment are merely cosmetic. Experience and necessity may represent some cerebral advantage over those who have not had such experiences or urgencies, but all humans, given similar environmental parameters, would eventually benefit from being exposed to those same experiences! Of course there are myriad variables to consider,such as classism, racism and an individual's response to either regardless of skin color or ethnic affiliation!

the physical expression of skin colour (phenotype) is directly controlled by the genetic inheritance of the individual. therefore I will repeat; skin colour is determined by racial makeup, not the other way around.

Since i reject the notion of "race" your argument seems specious at best. Why do so many mulattos have the same skin color as Mexicans, Middle easterners or Asians? Why do most people in the world have a kind of golden brown skin tone with dark or Black hair? Your premise does not address that fact! You seem to be obsessed with black and white skin tones when the pervasive skin tone among humans is somewhere in between! Why is that?

Ironically you use a word (phenotype) coined by a German in the early 20th Century. We know the racist jingoism that pervaded Germany in those days don't we? But since such words have become sacrosanct in the murky illusory world of "race,", I will humor you!

next you disagree that intelligence is an important factor simply because there are other factors. mensa qualified individuals do hold a large part of the world's wealth (Bill Gates) and professions like medical doctors have a very high IQ level and earn large salaries and accumulate a lot of wealth.

Intelligence is an important factor for what: survival? Is it the exploitation of others assumed to be less intelligent that makes it so desirable. Remember, Black Afriicans were nature's poster children for thousands of years before white people or Asians came on the scene. The mutated genes that you carry came from them so don't come here looking down your nose at the original people of the earth. Without them you wouldn't be here!
.

in many countries political acumen is more important than individual endeavour but in western countries there is much more opportunity to rise through clever choices therefore there is stratification by intelligence.

That western Mecca of opportunity was closed to most people of color( Asians, Blacks or Hispanics )before the advent of the Civil Rights Era. You can kiss Martin Luther King's ass for that one and Jesse Jackson's too while you are at it!

explaining why intelligence is a more important factor than SES, and how the process works is beyond the scope of this message board. I will point out an example though. the best players in the NBA are not necessarily the tallest but there are very few great players that are less than six feet tall.

You need not attempt to explain your nonsense to me. Im not buying it. The NBA has nothing to do with Natural Selection. Those guys would have been tall even if the NBA never existed! So much for you analogy and your lame premises!

 

[Wry Catcher]

so what is the 'right' personality? are smart people more or less likely to have 'it'?

There is no "right' personality; there are deviant ones as denoted in the DSM series.

almost all positive social traits are positively correlated to intelligence, most negative social traits are found more often in lower intelligence individuals.

Is this your opinion or do you have evidence to support such a theory? As one who worked for, with and supervised/managed those with diverse levels of educaton, diverse personality traits and diverse skills (in terms of abilities, talents, use of language and ability to solve problems) I discerned no commonality of social traits - negative or positive - among staff.

we may be using different definitions for the word trait. I am looking at behavioral traits rather than personality traits. long term family cohesion rather than gregariousness for example.

I don't see much of a distinction. Nature v. Nurture? Damn hard to pinpoint which has the most impact, though, if pressed, I pick Locke's theory of tabula rasa.

 

[IanC]

Q. Who is the new Jeopardy Teen Champion?


A. Leonard Cooper; a Black American Teenager whose IQ is at least two standard deviations higher than the dozen or so white, racist assholes who posted on this thread.

I fail to see how individual exceptions change the general rule that has been built from literally millions of subjects. are you saying that you dont believe that blacks are roughly one standard deviation lower on tests of mental ability in the US? there are only a few thousand blacks per year that manage to get 1500+ SAT scores necessary for NAMs to get into elite universities. while SAT, ACT, etc are not perfect IQ tests for the general population, they are very good when looking at the restricted range of those putting effort into getting accepted by good schools.

Other races do the same exact thing all the time. This is also accompanied by claiming the achievements of others who happen to be the same race, as if they were personally involved. Claiming "heritage" from anything outside of your family tree is freaking. ridiculous. I'm sick of this attitude of from all races and needs to stop.

I sorta agree with that. individuals should be judged on their merits. are you willing to give up stats on disparities when it comes to pushing for plans like affirmative action? stop and frisk? school success. etc?

when whites are blamed for the poor performance of blacks then whites should be allowed to defend themselves by bringing up the basic reason for those disparities, which is lower average intelligence in blacks.

 

[IanC]

Is this your opinion or do you have evidence to support such a theory? As one who worked for, with and supervised/managed those with diverse levels of educaton, diverse personality traits and diverse skills (in terms of abilities, talents, use of language and ability to solve problems) I discerned no commonality of social traits - negative or positive - among staff.

we may be using different definitions for the word trait. I am looking at behavioral traits rather than personality traits. long term family cohesion rather than gregariousness for example.

I don't see much of a distinction. Nature v. Nurture? Damn hard to pinpoint which has the most impact, though, if pressed, I pick Locke's theory of tabula rasa.

black children adopted into white middle class homes get a better start when they are young but that bonus dwindles as the child gets older and starts to chose his own environment. by the time that child is a adult they resemble their birth parents both physically and mentally and behaviourally, and do not resemble their adoptive parents at all.

nature beats out nurture almost every time. which is something that any parent with more than one child could tell you.