LilOlLady's Everlasting Gobstopper Illegal Immigration Thread

[30x90]

The importance of tobacco is that it is what allowed colonization to become viable. Without it as a source of income, the first colonies would have never gotten of the ground. Tobacco plantations required heavy usage of slave labor.

Oh for pete's sake...the colonists didn't bring any slaves over with them from england. C'mon man. geez...
There were indentured servants..WHITE people..and in 1619 the first slaves were brought by the dutch, I think, right?
Yours was the first reference to the colonies..I think someone had mentioned the war between the states in a prior reference to slavery.
Maybe I misunderstood...

A single comment by a single uninformed person is not meaningful to the overall state of historic knowledge. However, I find it an extremely flawed position to challenge anyone to name 10 inventions by a black person. I would challenge people to pick any 10 items for which they can name the inventor off the top of their head, and without doing a google search. I would even go farther to rule out any invention by Thomas Edison, since his fingerprints can be found almost everywhere.

I agree partially. The U.S. Patent Office pretty much has the last word, though.
Haven't you been following the thread?
In post # 10 lilOLady put forth the proposition that negroes built this country.
Crazy, huh?...

I also find it flawed to even think of the question in terms of how many such and such were invented by black people, or how many songs were composed by black people. Considering the fact that black people were oppresses and forbade from being educated all in the hopes that they would never gain the opportunity to have such impacts on the development of the world, looking back now and noting that there are little to no such examples of blacks contributing to such things is circular reasoning.

Well, I agree partially. See, lilOlLady went on to say in post #34 that negroes built western civilization!..Now that's really crazy.
If they were so backward, they couldn't have done all those things, right?

Then Mr. Peepers named 10 things that he claimed negroes invented, which were then proven that at least 9 of them were false! They weren't invented by negroes! Again I refer you to the U.S. Patent Office for the dates and inventors. Unless they're all racists, too...I hadn't considered that...
So much confusion and misinformation in this thread...

Finally, I find the notion that the "best" music and/or art, or comparable claims, have come from European sources is, well, Euro-centric. I'm sure that there are a great many Japanese who would consider that the "best" contributions to the arts over human history came from Asia. I'm sure that there are many people in the USA who might feel that the "best" contributions to art in human history came from early 20th century jazz (and I, for one, would find it difficult to argue with anyone making such a claim).

There is no such thing as the "best" music but there are composers and artists recognized worldwide by all cultures as the standard of their genre.

 

[gekaap]

I asked twice for international laws or at least border agreements clearly stating that Mexico, America or any other country in the world is under any obligation to help solve problems outside of their borders and all I got from gekaap was deflections and evasive statements.

Because you are question begging. I've already said that the issue is not about any international law as you so claim, the problem is that MEXICO WILL NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT IT OWES ITS CITIZENS, AND WANTS FOR US TO PROVIDE FOR ITS CITIZENS INSTEAD. You are using Mexico's lack of responsibility as an excuse for being irresponsible. If Mexico were a true ally of the US, they would take responsibility and do the neighborly thing, which is to keep their cats out of our garden.

You keep talking about each country having a responsibility to take care if its side of the border. Why, then, do you object to the US increasing border security and immigration law enforcement? Why, then, do you support Mexico constantly interfering with every attempt the US makes to enact tougher immigration laws, or step up enforcement of current policy?

Because there is none!! Because Mexico is under no legal obligation to solve America's problems with illegal mexicans just like America have no obligation to do anything to diminish the number of illegal american weapons in Mexico.

And again, I never said it was under any legal obligation. I said it was under a moral obligation. Your straw many fails, now get over it and address the real issues instead of trying to criticize people for not addressing the false issues you make up. Mexico has illegal American weapons because MEXICO'S CITIZENS bring them into Mexico. The US has firm laws regarding arms sales, and neither the people nor the government have any support for arms sales to Mexicans for illegal use in that country. This is unlike Mexico's government and social policy to be proponents of illegal immigration from Mexico to the US. Now that that irrelevant tanget is address, back to the issues at hand. Oh, and don't ever try to accuse me of deflection after that attempt you've just made.

Gekaap is now reduced to what he really is:

Just another drooling, fanatic patriot who wishes to strongarm a neighboring country to do part of the job that belongs EXCLUSIVELY to the US immigration service.

What I'm "reduced" to is an American citizen who wishes that my country's immigration policies were stronger, and who is tired of hearing about how the poor Mexicans are being somehow treated badly because they're not being welcomed in with open arms. I support America having stronger immigration laws, and I have explicit reasons for supporting it. According to you, it is the US's fault that there is an illegal immigration problem here because we have failed to have strong enough laws, or strong enough enforcement. If that is true, then on what basis can you object to anything I'm saying? I'm calling for exactly what you claim is necessary and proper.

This kind of patriotic bozos with massive bias against Mexico are a dime a dozen on this Board and don't even deserve to be addressed seriously due to their total inability to back up their claims.

If you think I'm some kind patriotically drunken member of the US citizenry, you're sadly mistaken. I am often very critical of my own country, and I don't even believe in "patriotism" because it is, in my opinion, nothing more than a socialized form of arrogance. You claim that I have some kind of bias against Mexico. Even if that were true, it is completely irrelevant. As I've said all along, this is a matter of America having the right to enact strong immigration laws and to follow through with firm enforcement. You claim that US immigration woes are the fault of the US for not having strong enough laws and not having strong enough enforcement. Okay then, we should be in agreement that the US needs stronger laws and more enforcement. However, you apparently feel the opposite. Because the US has an immigration problem allegedly due to too weak laws and too little enforcement, the US now has a responsibility to allow the problem to fester and grow. That is absurdity. So it is you who has been reduced in all of this; to the ranting and blathering imbecile you are, contradicting yourself, denying the conclusions of your own arguments, and demanding outcomes based on nothing more than overly emotional tirades.

 

[gekaap]

Yes, I've followed the thread. Some of my comments, I suppose, were not directed at you specifically, but at some of the arguments that are being made in general. The meat and potatoes of what I have been trying to say is that saying that white people created our country and/or our culture is very ethno-centric. There are a great many ways that people have contributed to the creation of our country and our culture. Some have been positive contributions, some negative. They cannot be measured quantitatively, and to only focus on certain areas indicates a narrow view. One could focus exclusively on the vital function that slave labor contributed to making the colonies economically sound, and conclude that black people were the greatest contributors to our country. But that would not take in an appreciation for the overall picture. Likewise, focusing only on something like invention history, also fails to take into consideration the overall picture. Also, any special focus on European accomplishments in the arts will ultimately produce a Eurocentric conclusion. After all, what would the western world look like without the printing press, gun powder, or chess?

 

[william the wie]

Yes, I've followed the thread. Some of my comments, I suppose, were not directed at you specifically, but at some of the arguments that are being made in general. The meat and potatoes of what I have been trying to say is that saying that white people created our country and/or our culture is very ethno-centric. There are a great many ways that people have contributed to the creation of our country and our culture. Some have been positive contributions, some negative. They cannot be measured quantitatively, and to only focus on certain areas indicates a narrow view. One could focus exclusively on the vital function that slave labor contributed to making the colonies economically sound, and conclude that black people were the greatest contributors to our country. But that would not take in an appreciation for the overall picture. Likewise, focusing only on something like invention history, also fails to take into consideration the overall picture. Also, any special focus on European accomplishments in the arts will ultimately produce a Eurocentric conclusion. After all, what would the western world look like without the printing press, gun powder, or chess?

Gun powder was invented in India, printing in China and chess in Persia, was that your point? But what I have trouble figuring out is that with all of the interracial marriage now and in the past where do all the neat racial categories come from and do they even make sense any more? By any reasonable standard Tiger Woods is an East Asian yet he is referred to as black. Could we have some definitions of what we are talking about?

 

[30x90]

Yes, I've followed the thread. Some of my comments, I suppose, were not directed at you specifically, but at some of the arguments that are being made in general. The meat and potatoes of what I have been trying to say is that saying that white people created our country and/or our culture is very ethno-centric. There are a great many ways that people have contributed to the creation of our country and our culture. Some have been positive contributions, some negative. They cannot be measured quantitatively, and to only focus on certain areas indicates a narrow view. One could focus exclusively on the vital function that slave labor contributed to making the colonies economically sound, and conclude that black people were the greatest contributors to our country. But that would not take in an appreciation for the overall picture. Likewise, focusing only on something like invention history, also fails to take into consideration the overall picture. Also, any special focus on European accomplishments in the arts will ultimately produce a Eurocentric conclusion. After all, what would the western world look like without the printing press, gun powder, or chess?

Gun powder was invented in India, printing in China and chess in Persia, was that your point? But what I have trouble figuring out is that with all of the interracial marriage now and in the past where do all the neat racial categories come from and do they even make sense any more? By any reasonable standard Tiger Woods is an East Asian yet he is referred to as black. Could we have some definitions of what we are talking about?

I'm not his lawyer, but I THINK his point was that those things; chess, gunpowder, and printing, contributed to the overall improvement of civilization (Well, maybe not gunpowder)...and the western world.

I could be wrong.

 

[whitehall]

Nothing wrong with minorities as long as they enter the Country legally. The left wing revolutionaries are counting on "America as we know it...gone". Thats why they advocate open borders.

 

[uscitizen]

What has become of our great white nation???

It is sinking into the third world.

We only have one world and we need to learn to get along better.

 

[gekaap]

I'm not his lawyer, but I THINK his point was that those things; chess, gunpowder, and printing, contributed to the overall improvement of civilization (Well, maybe not gunpowder)...and the western world.

I could be wrong.

More or less. Though I'm not sure that I would say improvement so much as that those things have all, for better or worse, been contributions to making western civilization what it is. Would the USA, as it is, been possible without gun powder? It certainly would have been much more difficult to steal away the lands of Native American tribes.

 

[MikeK]

what a racist thing to say

It seems she has reported a statistical fact which you refer to as "racist." So I would like to know your definition of the word, "racist," and how it applies to the quoted report.

Please don't consider this request to be smart-ass sarcasm because it isn't. I simply believe the words racist and racism are over-used, often misused and widely misunderstood.

 

[gekaap]

By any reasonable standard Tiger Woods is an East Asian yet he is referred to as black. Could we have some definitions of what we are talking about?

Tiger Woods, by any "reasonable" standard is a mutt. He has Native American, Chinese, African American, Dutch, and Thai ancestry. According to their wiki pages, Woods' father was 3/4 African American, and his mother was Thai, Chinese, and Dutch. So it would seem that the African American part is the largest single component of his ancestry. While I agree that inter marrying does make it unrealistic for many people to claim a single ethnicity as the entirety of their ancestry, that does not mean that people cannot have predominant components to their ancestry. My own ancestry includes Native Caribbean and African ancestry. But the majority component of my ethnicity is Hispanic. Even the most "pure" specimens of any ethnicity are blends of other proto-ethnicities. Ethnicity evolves over time like anything else.

 

[Tank]

What has become of our great white nation???

It is sinking into the third world.

We only have one world and we need to learn to get along better.

Your so cute

 

[MikeK]

America as we know it, gone.

Geronimo could have said that too................

What do you propose we do about it? Insist on whites having more kids? Sterilize hispanic women?

The most practical solution to the problem would be expansion of birth control, sterilization and abortion services combined with denial of public assistance to parents who cannot afford to raise new children. While that might seem rather insensitive the alternative is something we simply cannot afford.

 

[uscitizen]

Preliminary census estimates also suggest the number of multiracial Americans jumped roughly 20 percent since 2000, to over 5 million.


What is there to worry about? In another 100 years we will mostly all be some shade of brown due to genetic mixing anyway.

or is that what scares many? Losing their racial purity?

 

[Tank]

What is there to worry about? In another 100 years we will mostly all be some shade of brown due to genetic mixing anyway.

Hitler had the same dream as yours

 

[Vargulf]

Illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to apply for US citizenship, even if their kids are born here. There are thousands who have to wait years to get into the US legally. Allowing the illegals to stay is a slap in the face of those who obey the laws. Toss the illegals out; all of them.

 

[Comrade Ishmael]

We are all citizens of the world.

Nationalism is a disease.

 

[Colin]

We are all citizens of the world.

Nationalism is a disease.

And communism is a cancer that forces its followers to aspire to the lowest common denominator.

 

[LilOlLady]

"Terrorists have been arrested on the border, security chief says"
September 14, 2007
By Michael Cutler
Here's the lead from an article that deals with the nexus between our nation's failure to secure our borders and the imminent danger that this lunacy poses to our nation's security, six years after the attacks of September 11, 2001: "Texas' top homeland security official said Wednesday that terrorists with ties to Hezbollah, Hamas and al-Qaida have been arrested crossing the Texas border with Mexico in recent years." The official described one person caught in 2004 as being tied to a Pakistan insurgent group and whose specialty was smuggling Afghanis and other illegal aliens across the border.
Counterterrorism Blog: "Terrorists have been arrested on the border, security chief says"

This has been happening for years.
If we are going to fight terrorist with our military, we need to put our militray on our borders. We put them on the Afghanistan border.
A man was just arrested that has ties with terrorist after crossing our southern border with the help of coyotes.


Controversial Muslim cleric is arrested while sneaking into the U.S.Deported from Canada to Tunisia three years ago, Muslim cleric Said Jaziri was found hiding in the trunk of a BMW near the Mexican border.

Said Jaziri's deportation case drew attention in Canada three years ago… (Fethi Belaid / AFP/Getty Images)January 27, 2011|By Richard Marosi, Los Angeles Times

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/27 ... c-20110127

 

[30x90]

I'm not his lawyer, but I THINK his point was that those things; chess, gunpowder, and printing, contributed to the overall improvement of civilization (Well, maybe not gunpowder)...and the western world.

I could be wrong.

More or less. Though I'm not sure that I would say improvement so much as that those things have all, for better or worse, been contributions to making western civilization what it is. Would the USA, as it is, been possible without gun powder? It certainly would have been much more difficult to steal away the lands of Native American tribes.

"Steal" the land of the native americans? They weren't an organized society that had established borders, governments or any of the things required to be called a "civilization". They didn't "own" anything. They were itinerant wanderers essentially still living in the stone age...(much like the negroes in africa that were captured by their own countrymen and sold into slavery)...If they were such a great, "advanced civilization" they would have been able to withstand and overcome any threat from outside because of their great inventions and adaptations of technology..except they didn't have any.
Whatever..Europeans were much more intelligent and advanced and dominated them.

..and they weren't "native" to this country...they migrated here, too...probably from asia originally.

There will always be superior races and civilizations..It's how human beings operate. The weak will always be subjugated by the strong...The more intelligent will always win out over the less...except where govt. gets involved to ensure "equality"..

 

[30x90]

Preliminary census estimates also suggest the number of multiracial Americans jumped roughly 20 percent since 2000, to over 5 million.


What is there to worry about? In another 100 years we will mostly all be some shade of brown due to genetic mixing anyway.

or is that what scares many? Losing their racial purity?

Pure speculation and multi cultural nonsense.

Japan will NEVER be a muddle of "brown" people..They value their heritage and racial purity. Same with China..

Superior, more advanced races don't necessarily want their gene pool polluted by a weaker breed.

There's nothing wrong with protecting and preserving one's culture and heritage.
..unless you're white, of course..then you are a "racist"